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Alhazred posted:There's really only one source that claimed that. Samuel Ödmann wrote in 1784 that berserkers might have eaten shrooms, the reason was that he had seen siberian shamans do shrooms. No contemporary sources mentions them doing shrooms before going to battle. tru
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Jul 15, 2017 20:38
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It would be ironic if the berserkers were the only ones drinking water instead of beer before going into battle. Naked because they're making GBS threads uncontrollably and utterly fearless because they're deep in a fever fugue.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:38
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Well, that would be some kind of terrifying.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:44
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That people in the Middle ages wouldn't drink water for fear of getting the shits is a myth, though. There are plenty of sources mentioning how people would or should drink water, and they also mention how it is important to seek out only clean and clear water to drink. Which is no different from today's travel advice regarding the potability of tap water, if you think about it.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:52
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I wonder if there are records of drug culture projections from eras of past drug users. Like did Victorians hosed up on opium write about how human history was marked by the use of the poppy?
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Jul 16, 2017 09:44
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Almost certainly. Human nature doesn't change. As long as there's a "back then" to feel smugly superior to, people are going to feel smugly superior to it.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:51
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Human nature didn’t change back then, but we’re better than that now. 
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Jul 16, 2017 09:57
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A White Guy posted:I took a class in cultural botany and my professor spent a few weeks talking about the various psychedelics available to various peoples in history. European psychedelics positively suck, largely because they are nearly all anticholinergic and thus induce delirium, not fun,happy sexy times that psilocin produces. Whether or not this could be valuable on the battlefield seems like kind of a silly debate - in addition to being extremely dehydrating, the various plants that induce delirium (nightshade, belladona, fly agaric, etc) also cause extreme dehydration and diminished eyesight and in too high doses, will cause kidney failure, convulsions, and eventually, death. Europe does have a widespread species of psychedelic shroom, Psilocybe semilanceata. How well known it was for its psychedelic properties before the 19th century I don't know.
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Jul 16, 2017 13:06
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In the early 19th century, up to 90% of young males in China were hooked on opium that the British slanged during the first and second opium wars, in order to make up for their massive trade deficit. Britian shipped tens of thousands of 150 pound chests of powerful Bengal made opium, against the will of China's emperor. They turned China into a bunch of Amy Winehouses.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:59
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ChocNitty posted:In the early 19th century, up to 90% of young males in China were hooked on opium that the British slanged during the first and second opium wars, in order to make up for their massive trade deficit. Britian shipped tens of thousands of 150 pound chests of powerful Bengal made opium, against the will of China's emperor. They turned China into a bunch of Amy Winehouses. In some schools of thought the war in Afghanistan was fought to keep the opiods flowing to Europe and America. Or, women's rights I guess. Probably not to try to find Osama though. But boy howdy do we have an epidemic of that poo poo right now.
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Jul 16, 2017 20:45
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Christmas Mythology/Santa Claus effort post. First of all, Christmas as we celebrate it now is a relatively modern invention. It grew out of Yule, the pagan festival of the winter solstice. It was way more about drinking and chill hang seshes. Subsequently, after Christianity stole it you had this weird tension between this being the celebration of Chris's birth but also mostly an excuse to round up a posse and threaten people into giving you mulled wine (the origin of carolling). The Puritans hated Christmas because it was all about having a good time. It wasn't super popular in America. It was popular in the Netherlands. A lot of the modern traditions we intrinsically tie to Christmas begin here, most obviously Saint Nicholas, or Sinterklaas as they say it. The Dutch settled New Amsterdam, which was eventually conquered by the English and became New York. Sinterklaas is a bunch of things. He's mytheopic transformation of Saint Nicholas of Myna. He might be an aspect of allfather Odin, escaped into modern culture. He's one of the most recognized mythological figures in the modern world. The tie in with Odin is kinda questionable (as is a lot of Viking mythology) but I like it so it's in here. Supposedly Odin would lead the Wild Hunt across the sky in midwinter and children would put their socks by the hearth and fill them with carrots to feed Odin's steed. He would replace them with sweets and trinkets as a gift. Was this the origin of Santa Claus and Christmas gift giving? Or was it the legend of Nicholas of Myna secretly bequeathing a dowry to three sisters whose father couldn't afford one? Regardless, you end up with Sinterklaas, a jolly saint who dispensed trinkets and treats on his feast day. A few of you are probably thinking, "what about the blackface dude that follows Sinterklaas around?" Good question. He was pencilled into Christmas Mythology in the Netherlands in the early to mid 19th century and the cultural ties to New York weren't as strong. This is also the period where Sinterklaas in America went from being a minor figure at best to being one of the icons of winter. A bunch of stuff got culturally merged together. In Pennsylvania Dutch areas Kris Kringle became the accepted Christmas gift giver and largely indistinguishable from Santeclaus. The origin of the name Kris Kringle is Kristkinder, who was either literally the baby Jesus delivering presents or an angel disguised as him. Father Christmas got added into the mix. He was a spirit of Christmas good cheer (i.e. drinking). The reindeer that traditionally drove Sinterklaas' sleigh started to fly and he delivered presents on Christmas Eve. Santa also took on a sometimes elfin stature so he could fit down chimneys. A cartoonist named Thomas Nast is responsible for giving Santa the winter coat and his iconic night cap. Possibly also his home base of the North Pole. The poem "A Visit From Saint Nicholas" put all the random mutations Santa underwent in that period together into the iconic Santa of today (except he's still a little elf with miniature reindeer). As the 19th century drew to a close there was a consorted effort to draw Christmas away from being a drunken party and become a celebration of family and togetherness. Santa Claus ends up being a pretty good proxy for the transformation of the holiday across the 20th century. Commercial interests subsumed and took credit for Santa's existence. Coca Cola is erroneously credited as Santa's father and he stalks department stores and the ghosts of malls across the nation. How will Santa transform in a world where climate change has melted the North Pole and Amazon is the only retailer left? Either he'll get a cyborg eye or he will download into Jeff Bezos' body. Both are good.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:02
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Christmas has nothing to do with Yule. If there's any pagan festivals Christmas came from it'd be the birthday of Sol Invictus, the Roman heno/monotheistic sun god. But even that is uncertain - there's actually no consensus on which celebration came first, since the cult of Sol Invictus didn't gain traction until the mid-200s. The Sun was worshipped as a god by the Romans before that, but his festival days weren't in late December until Aurelian set it there in 274.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:36
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:effort post. I appreciate the effort, but that really was all over the place. Did you just gather a bunch of pop facts and try to make it into a coherent story?
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Jul 16, 2017 21:43
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All monotheistic religions are just poor copycats of the great Aten.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:44
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:A few of you are probably thinking, "what about the blackface dude that follows Sinterklaas around?" Good question. Wait, I read (here even?) that the blackface elf was introduced in the 1950's as some sort of attempt to impress and welcome American troops stationed in The Netherlands after the war. What are his origins really? I would understand if Belgium decided they needed some blackface for the holidays but The Netherlands?
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Jul 16, 2017 23:03
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Speaking of pagan and christian traditions being mixed, there's one thing I always find funny. So, it seems most cultures that celebrate modern easter know of the Easter Bunny. The Easter Bunny is a very strange figure when you think about it and I'm not completely sure about the origin. What I do know is that at least in Belgium (not sure how far spread this is), the Bunny was considered to be a heathen symbol, so the local catholics came up with their own story to get kids to search for easter eggs. It's basically like this: every year on easter night, the church bells of Rome come to life, start flying, and fly high over the land, dropping easter eggs everywhere. That story makes even less sense than the Easter Bunny, but I suppose it's not as heathen because it involves the church in some way? Captain Scandinaiva posted:Wait, I read (here even?) that the blackface elf was introduced in the 1950's as some sort of attempt to impress and welcome American troops stationed in The Netherlands after the war. What are his origins really? I would understand if Belgium decided they needed some blackface for the holidays but The Netherlands? No. The origin of black pete can be traced to at least the 19th century, he appeared in a children's book back then. But he wasn't a very important figure at that time. The story you're thinking of is how he got popularized. After the Canadians helped to liberate the Dutch people after WWII, they decided the Dutch deserved a break, and a fun party, after being under nazi occupation for half a decade. The sinterklaas festival was coming up, and the Canadian military decided to make this a bigger party than ever. Instead of the old way of Sinterklaas secretly climbing through chimneys with his assistant and leaving gifts, the Canadians decided to organize this huge parade, with not one, but hundreds of blackface guys handing out sweets, doing acrobatics, and whatnot. This huge parade became a yearly tradition even after the Canadians left, and I can only wonder if black pete would've been nearly as popular if they hadn't done the original parade. E: like most myths, the ACTUAL origins of the character aren't quite clear, but he might be inspired by Odin's black ravens. Another likely culprit is Krampus, a devil like character who is seen with Saint Nicholas at some traditional festivals in Germany and Austria:  In addition to that, in some medieval imagery, Saint Nicholas was sometimes seen taming a devil. No evidence of any character like that was seen in the Netherlands until the early 19th century, at which point, for some reason, someone looking like a Moor became Santa's assistant, and for some reason the story shifted to him coming from Spain. I'm guessing some weird story mix-and-match happened there. Edit 2: As a Dutch person I feel I should point out that I'm completely opposed to the figure Black Pete and we should get rid of him and replace him with some other figure that's not offensive and racist as soon as possible. Many public figures agree and are working to make this happen, after they found out that yes, Black Pete is actually offensive. Historically speaking, it's helpful to realize that back when Pete came into being, nearly nobody in the Netherlands would ever have seen a non-white person. Pete was a dressed up figure, based on a myth, not on any kind of real person. And sadly, this is how nearly all Dutch kids still learn about Pete. As a kid, I literally never made the connection between black pete (a jolly fellow in a weird suit and makeup handing out sweets) and people of colour (who're just day to day people like everyone else). I did not consider myself racist for celebrating this festival. Even when I grew up, I had no idea about the blackface tradition in the USA which was about making fun of slaves. I learned about that when I started doing my own research on the internet. My opinion on black pete changed when I found out people are actually offended by the figure. I discovered how racist the character was and since then I've been trying to convinced my fellow Dutch to see him in that light as well. But it feels like people who don't live here often underestimate how hard it is to convince someone they're doing something wrong if they are unable to see any racist aspects to their tradition. I wish I could just snap my fingers and be rid of black pete, but realistically, I know this process will be slow-going and take many more years. On the other hand, because more and more public media is supportive of getting rid of the racist aspects of the Sinterklaas festival, I'm convinced we'll get there in the end. Carbon dioxide has a new favorite as of 23:46 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 23:17
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Unbelievably Fat Man posted:mostly an excuse to round up a posse and threaten people into giving you mulled wine (the origin of carolling). Other people have pointed other stuff but do you have a source on this? This feels like purestrain pop facts. Its like up there with "picnic was short for pick a n-----."
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Jul 16, 2017 23:25
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RagnarokAngel posted:Other people have pointed other stuff but do you have a source on this? This feels like purestrain pop facts. Its like up there with "picnic was short for pick a n-----." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassailing Wassailing was associated with rowdy bands of young men who would enter the homes of wealthy neighbours and demand free food and drink (in a manner similar to the modern children's Halloween practice of trick-or-treating).[10] If the householder refused, he was usually cursed, and occasionally his house was vandalized. The example of the exchange is seen in their demand for "figgy pudding" and "good cheer", i.e., the wassail beverage, without which the wassailers in the song will not leave; "We won't go until we get some, so bring some out here".[9]
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Jul 16, 2017 23:28
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syscall girl posted:But boy howdy do we have an epidemic of that poo poo right now. A shitload of the opioid epidemic has more to do with the uptick in perscriptions of opioid pain meds, followed by the crackdown on those perscriptions after the panic regarding abuse. A lot of the addicts I run into (and I do EMS in a heroin-blighted area) got started after an injury and turned to smack after their perscription got cut off. If it wasn't afghani stuff it'd just be more of the mexican stuff.
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Jul 17, 2017 04:12
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Byzantine posted:Christmas has nothing to do with Yule. If there's any pagan festivals Christmas came from it'd be the birthday of Sol Invictus, the Roman heno/monotheistic sun god. But even that is uncertain - there's actually no consensus on which celebration came first, since the cult of Sol Invictus didn't gain traction until the mid-200s. The Sun was worshipped as a god by the Romans before that, but his festival days weren't in late December until Aurelian set it there in 274.
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Jul 17, 2017 04:35
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Ugly In The Morning posted:A shitload of the opioid epidemic has more to do with the uptick in perscriptions of opioid pain meds, followed by the crackdown on those perscriptions after the panic regarding abuse. A lot of the addicts I run into (and I do EMS in a heroin-blighted area) got started after an injury and turned to smack after their perscription got cut off. If it wasn't afghani stuff it'd just be more of the mexican stuff. Yeah not to get too off-topic (but today's news is tomorrow's history!  ) the opiate epidemic is really a labor rights epidemic - people work too hard and too long in physically damaging jobs, get hurt, can't afford to take time off, get hurt worse, can't afford physical therapy, and eventually find a doctor who tosses pills down their throats because actually helping chronic soft tissue/joint pain requires radical lifestyle changes that no one working a poo poo job has the option of doing. The solution to the opiate epidemic is OSHA compliance, strict-maximum 40 hour workweeks, paid vacations, and easy, affordable access to medical care.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:06
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Not that your point is incorrect but you also have to deal with pharmaceutical companies incentivizing pushing potentially dangerous meds as a first response. Even good labor laws wouldnt fix that.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:09
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RagnarokAngel posted:Not that your point is incorrect but you also have to deal with pharmaceutical companies incentivizing pushing potentially dangerous meds as a first response. Even good labor laws wouldnt fix that. Oh definitely, it's insane how easily they'll give out gently caress-your-life-up drugs for minor pains. For something a little more on-topic, here's a story that should strike fear into any history nerd's heart: How Collecting Opium Antiques Turned Me Into an Opium Addict
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Jul 17, 2017 05:18
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh definitely, it's insane how easily they'll give out gently caress-your-life-up drugs for minor pains. I got OxyContin for an ear ache a few years back which was cool cause although I actually did have an ear infection I was just trying to use it to get drugs
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Jul 17, 2017 06:55
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Carbon dioxide posted:As a Dutch person I feel I should point out that I'm completely opposed to the figure Black Pete and we should get rid of him and replace him with some other figure that's not offensive and racist as soon as possible. Many public figures agree and are working to make this happen, after they found out that yes, Black Pete is actually offensive. This has been exact experience as well, to the letter. Last year my dad sent me this picture:  "Pete, you sure this is Sylvana's house?" Sylvana Simons is a woman of colour and a politician. One of her spearpoints is the fight against Black Pete as an acceptable cultural phenomenon. The amount and intensity of harassment she received because of this was, literally, criminal. In some form or dark irony, this harassment and the consequent prosecution and sentencing made it clear to a lot of people, like my dad, who failed to see Black Pete as a racial problem, that The Netherlands are not as post-racial as we like to pat ourselves on the back for. Edit: My dad is a well read person, who in his 60s is getting progressively more socialist and compasionate in his world views. But when I tried to talk about how awful this picture was, the discussion halted at "I just really don't like her nagging tone about it". Such Fun has a new favorite as of 09:07 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 08:59
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InediblePenguin posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassailing Yeah, in Norway we have yule goat. It was a bunch of guys who either dressed like goats or put the head of a goat on a stick and went around singing until they go enough booze.
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Jul 17, 2017 10:45
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InediblePenguin posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassailing Ill be damned. I learned a thing.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:03
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Carbon dioxide posted:No. The origin of black pete can be traced to at least the 19th century, he appeared in a children's book back then. But he wasn't a very important figure at that time. The story you're thinking of is how he got popularized. Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up. I do remember Black Pete is supposed to be a Moor now that you mention it. Good luck changing that tradition too. People can get real defensive about (not so) old racist poo poo. But at least history teaches us how fast cultural change can happen. Also that Krampus guy looks like a great way to teach children not to be naughty.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:08
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh definitely, it's insane how easily they'll give out gently caress-your-life-up drugs for minor pains. I was really expecting a story where he ended up becoming addicted because of opium residue on the antiques giving him a contact high for years.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:41
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh definitely, it's insane how easily they'll give out gently caress-your-life-up drugs for minor pains. That was a really cool read, thank you.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:25
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Leaf Insects are a family of insects that can be found throughout south Asia and Australasia:   They are pretty amazing examples of animal camouflage, and when I was reading about them I thought (what is probably) the first European account of them was really charming. It's from Antonio Pigafetta, one of the eighteen men who survived Magellan's circumnavigation of the globe in the 1500's: Antonio Pigafetta posted:In this island are also found certain trees, the leaves of which, when they fall, are animated, and walk. They are like the leaves of the mulberry tree, but not so long; they have the leaf stalk short and pointed, and near the leaf stalk they have on each side two feet. If they are touched they escape, but if crushed they do not give out blood. I kept one for nine days in a box. When I opened it the leaf went round the box. I believe they live upon air.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:44
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Red Bones posted:Leaf Insects are a family of insects that can be found throughout south Asia and Australasia: That is awesome. Leaf insects are so cool
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Jul 18, 2017 11:07
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Red Bones posted:It's from Antonio Pigafetta, one of the eighteen men who survived Magellan's circumnavigation of the globe in the 1500's: Interesting, too, that he doesn't even connect it with being an insect at all. It's just An Alive Leaf.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:30
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Zesty Mordant posted:Interesting, too, that he doesn't even connect it with being an insect at all. It's just An Alive Leaf. People were really loving dumb in the past but I'd bet he was just exaggerating like most old school explorers to make his experience seem more impressive
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Jul 18, 2017 20:47
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If insects are just life forms spontaneously generated from unliving matter, what's even the point of distinguishing them if the latter resembles the former closely enough? http://www2.nau.edu/gaud/bio301/content/spngen.htm
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Jul 18, 2017 20:54
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Aesop Poprock posted:People were really loving dumb in the past but I'd bet he was just exaggerating like most old school explorers to make his experience seem more impressive He's not so smart. We all live on air, Piggy
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Jul 18, 2017 22:04
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Aesop Poprock posted:People were really loving dumb in the past but I'd bet he was just exaggerating like most old school explorers to make his experience seem more impressive Giraldus Cambrensis posted:Nature produces [Bernacae] against Nature in the most extraordinary way. They are like marsh geese but somewhat smaller. They are produced from fir timber tossed along the sea, and are at first like gum. Afterwards they hang down by their beaks as if they were a seaweed attached to the timber, and are surrounded by shells in order to grow more freely. Having thus in process of time been clothed with a strong coat of feathers, they either fall into the water or fly freely away into the air. They derived their food and growth from the sap of the wood or from the sea, by a secret and most wonderful process of alimentation. I have frequently seen, with my own eyes, more than a thousand of these small bodies of birds, hanging down on the sea-shore from one piece of timber, enclosed in their shells, and already formed. They do not breed and lay eggs like other birds, nor do they ever hatch any eggs, nor do they seem to build nests in any corner of the earth.  You will notice the tree in that picture. Since barnacles were found growing on wood in the water, of course that implied that the wood was from some sort of barnacle tree. And since the geese came from trees, which weren't meat, that of course made them okay to eat during Lent. Well, at least according to some; the guy quoted up there did not agree, and the Pope himself had to eventually issue an edict saying that geese were just like other birds, and so weren't exempt from dietary rules.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:35
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Jul 18, 2017 23:23
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But... but people farmed geese. Did they not draw parallels between the geese that hatched on their farms and the wild geese?
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Jul 18, 2017 23:54
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It's only that particular breed of geese, geez.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:02
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