Zeris posted:We are far, far into that psychology experiment where person A will forfeit part of their free money in order to make sure person B gets none. If 320 million people have the same amount of money then you greatly diminish the marginal utility of each dollar. That's capitalism and if you look at it from an economic standpoint, it makes sense that I would take $10 if it meant you had $5, rather than both of us having $20. Granted that's probably not why people try to screw people over, but there is a good justification for it. E: I also don't think that study or survey or whatever actually exists. We talk about it a lot but I don't think anyone's ever seen it. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 04:47
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Money has diminishing individual marginal utility: each successive dollar you get does less to improve your life than the one before it did. Also, people with much higher incomes and wealth spend less of their money as a percentage, creating less economic activity than if it were redistributed to people with less.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:15
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I may be poor now, but I'm gonna strike it rich mining coal any day now, and then who'll be laughing?
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Jul 16, 2017 05:21
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Hannibal Rex posted:I may be poor now, but I'm gonna strike it rich mining coal any day now, and then who'll be laughing? Me when you die of black lung in ten years.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:23
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Hannibal Rex posted:I may be poor now, but I'm gonna strike it rich mining coal any day now, and then who'll be laughing? Be sure to invest in asbestos mining companies to maximize your returns.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:36
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bird food bathtub posted:Me when you die of black lung in ten years. People don't get black lung anymore because of PPE and OHSA duh. Coal is safe and clean and harmless to mine.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:43
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TBeats posted:E: I also don't think that study or survey or whatever actually exists. We talk about it a lot but I don't think anyone's ever seen it. I remember multiple studies with similar conclusions (i.e. people will gently caress themselves if it fucks an outgroup more) from my old psych classes, I just can't remember any of their names. I guarantee that they exist, though. Note that the ones I'm thinking of didn't necessarily use money (but some did), I specifically remember one involved getting British teenagers to assign points for some arbitrary task, and about 80% of them would gladly tank their own score if it meant the other guy would get even less. Same principle, though.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:45
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Crazycryodude posted:I remember multiple studies with similar conclusions (i.e. people will gently caress themselves if it fucks an outgroup more) from my old psych classes, I just can't remember any of their names. I guarantee that they exist, though. Psych studies are mostly kinda bullshit, though. There's all sorts of issues with the methodology, like the "young, white, college student" problem with their study samples and the difficulty in applying scientific rigor to studies of cognition. I took a few psych courses in college and the professors would all readily admit this. I bring this up because internet nihilists love to cite the Milgram experiment when, in reality, it was massively flawed and the common conception of it is not actually a reasonable conclusion to draw from the results (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2013/10/02/the-shocking-truth-of-the-notorious-milgram-obedience-experiments/). I guess I don't know enough to say that the study you're talking about is off the mark but I'd be skeptical, especially considering the positive studies on generosity and social support conducted over the years. The truth is probably way more complicated than you want it to be. Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 05:53
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Doc Hawkins posted:Also, people with much higher incomes and wealth spend less of their money as a percentage, creating less economic activity than if it were redistributed to people with less. Every time I visit my in-laws I doubt this. I'm pretty sure they'd just buy more lotto tickets, deep fry some extra Twinkies, and scuff slightly nicer shoes as they get into drunken spats with their neighbors. And trust me, any money you give them will lead to demands for even more Twinkie money. GiP knows this from experience. I mean, sure we want Joe off food stamps, but we all know that his first impulse is to buy that Mustang with any extra money he thinks he has. I'm not sure how his slide into more complex forms of debt helps the economy. What I'm saying is that we're never going to Make America Great Again if we throw our money at poors instead of giving it to people who know how to make very, very good deals--the best deals--trust me on this.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:26
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If you give money to Joe, he will turn around and give that money directly to the prostitutes, thereby stimulating
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Jul 16, 2017 06:31
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Hannibal Rex posted:I may be poor now, but I'm gonna strike it rich mining coal any day now, and then who'll be laughing? You'll be as rich as the miners in West Virginia, an economy too feeble even to support Walmart. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/09/what-happened-when-walmart-left
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Jul 16, 2017 06:51
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Doc Hawkins posted:Money has diminishing individual marginal utility: each successive dollar you get does less to improve your life than the one before it did. Maybe, but getting more money does open opportunities for better ways of making money off of your money. The barrier to entry going from Charles Schwab to some fancy pants private broker is probably no joke, and if a few of your acquaintances are already making bank off the latter, you drat well want a way in too. The Joneses want two things: to have more/better poo poo than their neighbor, and to keep poors (ie minorities) out of the neighborhood.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:28
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Blind Rasputin posted:People don't get black lung anymore because of PPE and OHSA duh. Coal is safe and clean and harmless to mine. ROFLMAO black lung is worse now than when those poor bastards were paid company scrip http://www.npr.org/2017/06/30/535059200/government-researchers-plan-response-to-rising-rates-of-black-lung-disease E: Can't talk too much tho my moms whole side of the family is from there and Uncle Johnny lost three ribs and 60% of his liver in a mine collapse, then went on to cut six of his toes off with a lawnmower. He's a hospital administrator now. Grandpa died young in a tragic glass-door-punching accident when the oldest of his 4 kids was 9 shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 07:41
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We should probably introduce universal basic income, healthcare, and worker's rights before the MAGA+BLM crowds realize that the passage of time, and not brown people/white privilege, stole their humanity, dignity, and employment opportunities. Or pray for the bomb. Whatevs.
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Jul 16, 2017 07:51
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I want a star trek future where everyone has replicators and free energy and you just basically wish for whatever material thing you want and poof its there
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Jul 16, 2017 07:53
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Reverand maynard posted:I want a star trek future where everyone has replicators and free energy and you just basically wish for whatever material thing you want and poof its there Suicides would skyrocket
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Jul 16, 2017 07:55
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Reverand maynard posted:I want a star trek future where everyone has replicators and free energy and you just basically wish for whatever material thing you want and poof its there china would loving explode
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Jul 16, 2017 08:19
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Vengarr posted:If you give money to Joe, he will turn around and give that money directly to the prostitutes, thereby stimulating Americans will still be Americans even under socialism. That is why a readily availiable welfare state would be the best thing domestically for this country. Every one should be able to afford bookers, but the red blooded spirit of the American dream will ensure that any person who is willing to work hard and be valuable to society can afford EVEN BETTER HOOKERS.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:19
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Reverand maynard posted:I want a star trek future where everyone has replicators and free energy and you just basically wish for whatever material thing you want and poof its there That's essentially what we have now. Rich people are on the Enterprise and are destined for mars. you're some frontier scum miner who is gonna die on the rock you were born on surrounded by Klingons
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Jul 16, 2017 08:27
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Arc Light posted:You'll be as rich as the miners in West Virginia, an economy too feeble even to support Walmart. Aaaand its a pretty safe bet that they're Trump supporters.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:29
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I mean, when someone comes in to the ER we can get CT scans of their entire body that are so high resolution now, and MRIs of specific organs with even higher quality images, very quickly. Then we can like do a lot of cool stuff to treat things. I worked at a hospital that would do everything first, ask for what insurance plan is second. Even the poor illegal immigrants got full treatment while their acuity was high enough to warrant an inpatient stay. Main problems are of course the large tax burden to pay for this, the complete lack of outpatient follow up once they are discharged (even if they have cancer, they won't get outpatient treatment), and the lack of social work help for them. These last two things really make me the saddest. Like, once I had to tell a family they'd be better off going back to their own country to find whatever care they can get knowing this is a death sentence because they won't get it here. They have no citizenship and no insurance. And it tore me up to see how devastated their hopes were. They literally expended every single asset to get in to this country in hopes of getting treatment, just to be turned down. I'm really hoping the most that science figures out magnetism in a way that allows for handheld MRI devices. Like, imagine a bedside device like an Ultrasound machine on wheels (which themselves have improved in resolution remarkably lately), but able to generate complete MR images of organs in real time. Just good god that would be amazing. It would be as close to a star trek tricorder as we could get.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:18
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Reverand maynard posted:I want a star trek future where everyone has replicators and free energy and you just basically wish for whatever material thing you want and poof its there i'll be drinking earl grey tea by the bucket and shaving my head all the time
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Jul 16, 2017 10:15
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Doc Hawkins posted:Money has diminishing individual marginal utility: each successive dollar you get does less to improve your life than the one before it did. Look at it from a power structure standpoint. If you and I both have $25, we have the same economic power. If I have $10 and you have zero, I have more economic power than you. This is true essentially up to infinity (since money is finite, I'm just using the word infinity because I'm lazy) in our current system and the marginal utility doesn't decrease the way you say it does. Currently, people are rewarded exponentially for having more than someone else, so economically it makes sense to take less money if the other person has even less than that, rather than us having the same amount. If you look at it from an economic standpoint, it's better for me to have more than you. But if you're doing it just to gently caress the other guy over it's not because you're smart, it's because you're an rear end in a top hat, and I'm sure your average person doesn't look at it from an economic utility standpoint. E: this is all from an American capitalism standpoint. boop the snoot fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 10:35
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TBeats posted:Look at it from a power structure standpoint. If you and I both have $25, we have the same economic power. If I have $10 and you have zero, I have more economic power than you. This is true up to infinity (since money is finite, I'm just using the word infinity because I'm lazy) in our current system and the marginal utility doesn't decrease the way you say it does. That might make sense in a small closed experimental system where you and your ten dollars are in direct competition with Joe and his ten dollars. And the experiment is set up so ten dollars is a capital investment amount of money. Or from a purely theoretical economic viewpoint. It all falls apart when the experiment offers the choice of $20 for both participants or $10 for one and $5 for the other. To spend in a not experimental market. Literally just $20 bux to spend on strippers or beer. The reward isn't exponentially better if one has ten and the other has 5 in this scenario. The chooser just screwed himself out of an extra cut rate lap dance. There is no shortage of strippers and beer. The money doesn't provide much extra utility. In purely theoretical economic terms one has more economic power. In application both participants just get hosed. Edit: Wrote this before you edited in that last bit about assholery. Laranzu fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 11:02
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I wanna bring us back to the old faithfuls, HER EMAILS!! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/886534810575020032
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Jul 16, 2017 11:40
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I kinda want to know exactly what he thinks will happen. Does he think that Hillary & the Dems will get the White House if he's fired?
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Jul 16, 2017 12:42
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TBeats posted:I wanna bring us back to the old faithfuls, HER EMAILS!! I fully expect to hear about HER EMWAILS until I draw my last breath, but the loving debate questions...? Really?
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Jul 16, 2017 14:29
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I fully expect to hear about HER EMWAILS until I draw my last breath, but the loving debate questions...? It's not like he even answered the debate questions anyway. He just rambled about nonsense until his time was up.
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Jul 16, 2017 15:28
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Richard Bong posted:He just rambled about nonsense until his time was up. They're going to say the same thing about his presidency.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:22
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Duzzy Funlop posted:I fully expect to hear about HER EMWAILS until I draw my last breath, but the loving debate questions...? Does he know he's President? Maybe it's a sign of dementia that he keeps talking about stuff that happened nine months ago.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:31
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Zeris posted:Maybe, but getting more money does open opportunities for better ways of making money off of your money. The barrier to entry going from Charles Schwab to some fancy pants private broker is probably no joke, and if a few of your acquaintances are already making bank off the latter, you drat well want a way in too. The Joneses want two things: to have more/better poo poo than their neighbor, and to keep poors (ie minorities) out of the neighborhood. Oh, of course. It's still worth it for the rich to keep getting those dollars-of-diminishing-utility because it gives them leverage to keep getting them faster and faster. And they do still spend some of them, often on enforcing class boundaries in some way. But it's not somehow good for the economy or humanity. Current event: Louie Gohmert's muslim friends have made him aware of a diabolical plot https://twitter.com/thinkprogress/status/886348503789785089
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Jul 16, 2017 16:43
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This guy... Wow.
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Jul 16, 2017 16:54
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Louie Gohmert is also the terror baby guy. He also argued that "the gays" would ruin potential colonies on Mars in the event of a planetwide disaster necessitating that sort of thing. Because we'd just have a same-sex colony since we don't discriminate. He used The Martian to do this. Reppin' Texas proudly!
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Jul 16, 2017 16:59
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dscruffy1 posted:Louie Gohmert is also the terror baby guy. He also argued that "the gays" would ruin potential colonies on Mars in the event of a planetwide disaster necessitating that sort of thing. Because we'd just have a same-sex colony since we don't discriminate. He used The Martian to do this. Also, canceling "Flip it Forward" on HGTV was like female genital mutilation. He got reelected with three quarters of the vote. Texas's first district are the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:01
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If ISIS was using transsexuals then that's kind of more inclusive than the Republican Party.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:02
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TBeats posted:If ISIS was using transsexuals then that's kind of more inclusive than the Republican Party. Ya know who else is "inclusive"? Liberals.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:18
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dscruffy1 posted:Louie Gohmert is also the terror baby guy. He also argued that "the gays" would ruin potential colonies on Mars in the event of a planetwide disaster necessitating that sort of thing. Because we'd just have a same-sex colony since we don't discriminate. He used The Martian to do this. I looked this up and his reasoning involves the fact that the colony will only be able to have about 40 people. I think there's going to be a bigger problem than gay people if he thinks 40 people is enough to continue the human race.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:21
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TBeats posted:If ISIS was using transsexuals then that's kind of more inclusive than the Republican Party. I assume he means because it shows prospective ISIS recruits the depravity and unholiness of the US military or whatever but it's still godamn stupid.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:25
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Pesticide20 posted:I looked this up and his reasoning involves the fact that the colony will only be able to have about 40 people. I think there's going to be a bigger problem than gay people if he thinks 40 people is enough to continue the human race. The inbreeding would still create people smarter than Louie Gohmert
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Jul 16, 2017 17:26
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KirbyKhan posted:Ya know who else is "inclusive"? Liberals. Makes u think
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Jul 16, 2017 17:27
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