rodbeard posted:

It's not a Ramirez if that's what you're thinking.

Alhazred posted:

Trogdos! posted:

Cat Mattress posted:

"tax = slavery" is basically all there is to libertarian philosophy. It doesn't go any deeper.

quote:

[...]it is the plaintive daydream of a petty bourgeoisie, whose sulky solution to perceived social problems is to run away–set sail into a tax-free sunset.

None of this is surprising. Libertarianism is not a ruling-class theory. It may be indulged, certainly, for the useful ideas it can throw up, and its prophets have at times influenced dominant ideologies–witness the cack-handed depredations of the “Chicago Boys” in Chile after Allende’s bloody overthrow. But untempered by the realpolitik of Reaganism and Thatcherism, the anti-statism of “pure” libertarianism is worse than useless to the ruling class.

Big capital will support tax-lowering measures, of course, but it does not need to piss and moan about taxes with the tedious relentlessness of the libertarian. Big capital, with its ranks of accountant-Houdinis, just gets on with not paying it. And why hate a state that pays so well? Big capital is big, after all, not only because of the generous contracts its state obligingly hands it, but because of the gun-ships with which its state opens up markets for it.

Alhazred posted:

Ziv Zulander posted:

Zelda is the highlight of the thread for me

Erenthal posted:

There's that good essay by China Mieville that I think lays it out quite well.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/3328/floating_utopias

China loving Mieville posted:

Libertarianism, by contrast, is a theory of those who find it hard to avoid their taxes, who are too small, incompetent or insufficiently connected to win Iraq-reconstruction contracts, or otherwise chow at the state trough. In its maundering about a mythical ideal-type capitalism, libertarianism betrays its fear of actually existing capitalism, at which it cannot quite succeed. It is a philosophy of capitalist inadequacy.

Libertarianism’s nemesis, “the state,” is no less abstract. This is particularly so for libertarianism’s seasteading wing, for whom the political entity “the state” is bizarrely geographically literalized. Their intent is to slip the surly bonds of earth not up but sideways, beyond littoral borders. It is a lunatic syllogism: “I dislike the state: The state is made of land: Therefore I dislike the land.” Water is a solvent, dissolving “political” (state) power, leaving only “economics” behind.

Erenthal posted:

There's that good essay by China Mieville that I think lays it out quite well.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/3328/floating_utopias

Panty Saluter posted:

it's always a good time to repost this classic

Jurgan posted:

I'm going to repeat what I said in another thread:

I disagree strongly with this. In the 90's, Gingrich politicized impeachment and went after Clinton because he couldn't win politically. I consider that morally wrong and damaging to our political institutions. By the same token, we shouldn't decide on whether Trump should be impeached based on what Pence might do; it should be based solely on whether high crimes and misdemeanors were committed. This probably sounds naive, but I don't think it is. We can fight against Pence politically as long as normal rules of politics apply. But if we say that a president can abuse his power indefinitely and we won't do anything about it because of politics, then we're giving him permission to keep doing so. The biggest fear when Trump came into office was that he was an authoritarian who would fundamentally change the powers of the presidency and the nature of our government. We have to stop him from doing that, and that likely means impeachment. If we don't hold him responsible, then we'll never be able to hold any of them responsible. If Trump is removed from office, then Pence will be weakened and suspect. More to the point, he'll know that we're prepared to hold him responsible if he abuses his power as well. The bottom line for me is that we have to show that the president isn't above the law, or it'll just make it that much harder to limit the president's powers next time. If Reagan had been impeached over lying about Iran-Contra, W. Bush might not have tried to lie to Congress about Iraq. Accountability is important if we want to have the ability to check the power of the president.

Lurdiak posted:

Keep in mind that a significant portion of Donald Trump's supporters somehow see him as fighting against the elites for the masses, even though he's a billionaire who's mostly known for being a billionaire and little else.

Erenthal posted:

My love for libertarians is only trumped by my love for liberterianism's retared brother, freemanism.

Erenthal posted:

My love for libertarians is only trumped by my love for liberterianism's retared brother, freemanism.

Rigged Death Trap posted:

I support Gordon Frremanism
Where I smash the fash and eventually the state with a crowbar


Black and red mesa

Angepain posted:

actually, officer, when you tell me to pick up that can you are in fact not addressing the ipso-facto legal entity of GORDON-FREEMAN and thus and theresofore so have no modus-tollens authority to make me put it in the trash and hence furthermore-STOP HITTING ME YOU'RE OPPRESSING MY RIGHTS

Trogdos! posted:

Edible Hat posted:

I like Zelda and its parade of cute Norwegian boys, but is it really political?

Edible Hat posted:

I like Zelda and its parade of cute Norwegian boys, but is it really political?

Help Im Alive posted:

The duck tripped on a dryer sheet today two weeks ago.

Ziv Zulander posted:

Zelda is the highlight of the thread for me

Angepain posted:

actually, officer, when you tell me to pick up that can you are in fact not addressing the ipso-facto legal entity of GORDON-FREEMAN and thus and theresofore so have no modus-tollens authority to make me put it in the trash and hence furthermore-STOP HITTING ME YOU'RE OPPRESSING MY RIGHTS

Saint Sputnik posted:

If only the artist spent her time off learning how to draw a second male face.

Jurgan posted:

Does anyone remember the post, probably in the crazy forwards thread, where a libertarian was being beaten by anarchists and shouted "you're violating the non-aggression principle!"

quote:

I don't usually use forums or Reddit, I usually just post comments on Ancap blogs like Molyneux or Cantwell's blog, but they didn't seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you.
Nov 3 I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol).
I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "anarchists" and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise.
I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me.
This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside.
We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate.
I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism.
And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it.
I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time.
And one of them said "but we do want to stop democracy" and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant.
So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism.
Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property.
Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though.
I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos.
So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad.
I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.

Saint Sputnik posted:

If only the artist spent her time off learning how to draw a second male face.

Zesty posted:

I love the hammer/sickles. "We're not colluding with the Russians. YOU love the Soviet Union."

ACRE & EQUAT posted:

:bigtran: - "I am a swedish male."