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I can't believe they put off the vote on the ahca again, letting that bill fester in Congress is only going to hurt their already low chances of passing it. I guess this is pretty open signaling that they don't have the votes and never will.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:00
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FizFashizzle posted:Turned out raiding the middle class (and not the DNC donors) to pay for poor people to have healthcare doesn't work out too well. How is raising taxes on the highest income bracket in order to subsidize plans for the lowest raiding the middle class?
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Jul 17, 2017 13:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Obamacare gave the us the best health care system it ever had which also was objectively the worst health care of any first world country on the entire planet. Basically, it polished a turd. Sure, its shiny, but its still a turd.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:06
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Rex-Goliath posted:How is raising taxes on the highest income bracket in order to subsidize plans for the lowest raiding the middle class? For one thing it was mostly middle to lower middle class people who saw the most dramatic rise in premiums and deductibles.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:07
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Actually the ACA was the best health care bill that could have passed and has helped quite a lot of people so sorry it doesn't measure up to your Christmas wish list but gently caress off morons.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:09
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Obamacare lowered the rate of increase in deductibles though. It should have had the public option but even as is it improved the American health care system by a decent amount.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:11
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Ogmius815 posted:Actually the ACA was the best health care bill that could have passed and has helped quite a lot of people so sorry it doesn't measure up to your Christmas wish list but gently caress off morons. lol @ UHC, something that is taken for granted in pretty much every other first world nation, being "a Christmas wish list"
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Jul 17, 2017 13:11
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Ogmius815 posted:Actually the ACA was the best health care bill that could have passed and has helped quite a lot of people so sorry it doesn't measure up to your Christmas wish list but gently caress off morons. No actually it is extremely bad and the worst health care system of any modern country on the entire planet by an extremely wide margin. It's better than what came before but don't get confused into thinking the US healthcare system is okay or even reasonable. Don't even get confused into thinking it's even a good or okay non-single payer system.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:13
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Ogmius815 posted:Actually the ACA was the best health care bill that could have passed and has helped quite a lot of people so sorry it doesn't measure up to your Christmas wish list but gently caress off morons. A better bill could have passed if a few very specific things happened, such as Lieberman getting hit by a meteor or Kennedy not dying. I don't think it was the best bill that "could have been passed" given that a public option passed the house and was killed in the Senate by specific people who deserve blame for that. But it was an improvement. It was probably a better political strategy than it was an actual bill, because its structure was right-wing, so it drove the Republicans into a situation where they have no proposal to reform medical care, because the only available options are left-wing.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:14
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Actually they're now proposing a plan from the Gor series so.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:17
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CommieGIR posted:And the fun part about the GOP trying to ditch the ACA Act is the fact that Insurers have straight up said they'll just have to start invalidating insurance plans if they do and have told them not to touch the ACA Act. I too prefer the affordable care act act
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Jul 17, 2017 13:19
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If I recall correctly, the first thing Obama said at the start of negotiations is that insurance profits wouldn't be compromised.Ogmius815 posted:Actually the ACA was the best health care bill that could have passed and has helped quite a lot of people so sorry it doesn't measure up to your Christmas wish list but gently caress off morons. Sneakster fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 13:20
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FizFashizzle posted:Actually they're now proposing a plan from the Gor series so. One of the things I remember from that mock thread in LF many years ago is that on Gor they have vaccines that will provide eternal youth, but they're only for sex slaves and everyone else (men) just gets old and fat.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:26
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I don't know, it's been a pretty big improvement to my family's quality of life to pay $38 a month for myself and two kids, for zero-deductible and low co-pay insurance, as opposed to...*checks online system* yes that would be $509 a month pre-tax from my available employer-based plan.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:26
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Obviously if we'd pushed left as hard as possible in 2009, the right-wing backlash in 2010 would have been minimized, furthermore
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Jul 17, 2017 13:27
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mdemone posted:I don't know, it's been a pretty big improvement to my family's quality of life to pay $38 a month for myself and two kids, for zero-deductible and low co-pay insurance, as opposed to...*checks online system* yes that would be $509 a month pre-tax from my available employer-based plan. What if you had to pay $0
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Jul 17, 2017 13:28
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Lightning Lord posted:What if you had to pay $0 Then the moral fabric of America would be destroyed.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:31
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There Bias Two posted:Then the moral fabric of America would be destroyed. So, two birds...
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Jul 17, 2017 13:32
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skeleton warrior posted:Obviously if we'd pushed left as hard as possible in 2009, the right-wing backlash in 2010 would have been minimized, furthermore "No way this could have been avoided" says only country on earth where this happens.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:A better bill could have passed if a few very specific things happened, such as Lieberman getting hit by a meteor or Kennedy not dying. Okay. But Kennedy did die, and Lieberman was a senator, and Scott Brown won. So it was the best bill that could have passed.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:36
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Grapplejack posted:I can't believe they put off the vote on the ahca again, letting that bill fester in Congress is only going to hurt their already low chances of passing it. I guess this is pretty open signaling that they don't have the votes and never will. Meanwhile Heller has still refused to say one way or another what he is going to do.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:42
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what's a monday without a perfect being the enemy of good, evolution v revolution, left not left enough, reality v fantasy debate
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Jul 17, 2017 13:46
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skylined! posted:what's a monday without a perfect being the enemy of good, evolution v revolution, left not left enough, reality v fantasy debate Well the fat bitch refuses to tweet so this is what we have
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Jul 17, 2017 13:47
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MAKE THE TWEET YOU FAT BITCH
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Jul 17, 2017 13:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:"No way this could have been avoided" says only country on earth where this happens. Yes, and for exactly the same reasons, you giant idiot, or do you think that if only Obama made the right speech in the right way, the part of America which shrieks about MUH RIGHTS and NO SOCIULISM would simply have faded away? Edit: yes, lord, let the fat bitch tweet
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Jul 17, 2017 13:48
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lordy i hope there's tweets
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Jul 17, 2017 13:52
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Rex-Goliath posted:MAKE THE TWEET YOU FAT BITCH
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Jul 17, 2017 13:53
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Lightning Lord posted:lol @ UHC, something that is taken for granted in pretty much every other first world nation, being "a Christmas wish list" It is if you don't, you know, completely ignore how American politics works, especially in 2010.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:57
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:"No way this could have been avoided" says only country on earth where this happens. Completely off the topic of stupid news but where do you go for spooky science news these days since that's probably still your thing? It's always hard to find on SA, I even petitioned for a subforum for it once.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:58
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Good lord I am addicted to hating him. I hope this is some kind of Stockholm variation thing and will pass when he dies.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:59
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Ogmius815 posted:Okay. But Kennedy did die, and Lieberman was a senator, and Scott Brown won. So it was the best bill that could have passed. That's a truism though. You could say that about any bill, because the only way to know if a bill could have passed is if it actually passes. If the current monstrosity passes, it will also be the "best bill that could have passed." Hell, I agree with you that Obamacare was a major improvement and saved many lives.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:02
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Completely off the topic of stupid news but where do you go for spooky science news these days since that's probably still your thing? It's always hard to find on SA, I even petitioned for a subforum for it once. I feel like youtube just has me on that. I don't even follow any specific channels or anything, I just watched that nonsense enough youtube's AI just figured out what to show me at some point. Like look at what my actual "recommended" panel is. It's exactly what you think it'd be 
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Jul 17, 2017 14:03
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https://twitter.com/juddlegum/status/886920717245321216 leopards, faces etc
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Jul 17, 2017 14:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's a truism though. You could say that about any bill, because the only way to know if a bill could have passed is if it actually passes. If the current monstrosity passes, it will also be the "best bill that could have passed." No actually that's wrong. We don't know it because it passed, we know it because the bill passed with not one drat vote to spare in the senate and the Democrats spent weeks and weeks working on getting those last few votes.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:08
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The really shocking thing about the ACA is not how good or bad it was, or how good or bad it has made the system. The real story is how utterly horrible the old system was. It was not so long ago you had parents with health insurance leave neonatal with babies who had already hit lifetime coverage gaps. It was not so long ago that having fibromyalgia was effectively a uniquely painful way to be paralyzed without recourse. It was not so long ago insurers could and would break your policy and pay you some premiums back if you contraced HIV, or cancer, or hepatitis a. As with most social programs, the most shocking thing is how we lived before it, and that we allowed ourselves to live that way for so long for so little reason.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:16
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Ogmius815 posted:No actually that's wrong. We don't know it because it passed, we know it because the bill passed with not one drat vote to spare in the senate and the Democrats spent weeks and weeks working on getting those last few votes. ANother way to say this is "If even one or two more Senators had had a better moral compass, we'd have a better bill."
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Jul 17, 2017 14:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:ANother way to say this is "If even one or two more Senators had had a better moral compass, we'd have a better bill."
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Jul 17, 2017 14:19
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Pre ACA, the American health care system was an unjustifiable expensive grift, a sort of arcane medical Calvinism. It was a story written to humiliate the conscience. Now it's just bad and overpriced. Before, though, everyone went everyone by the grace of providence and too much money.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:ANother way to say this is "If even one or two more Senators had had a better moral compass, we'd have a better bill." Okay. Sure. If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. None of this does anything to show that calling the ACA pointless and criticizing it for not being more leftist is anything but tremendously ignorant. Which it is.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:25
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Ogmius815 posted:Okay. Sure. If your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. None of this does anything to show that calling the ACA pointless and criticizing it for not being more leftist is anything but tremendously ignorant. Which it is. It's not just "not leftist" it's objectively the worst system on earth https://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/ That isn't obamas fault and it was worse before but it's objective that we have a bad healthcare system.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:31
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