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Question: what if they just leave the bishop sitting on b5? It doesn't seem to be in any danger right where it is, and it's pinning our knight to our king*. I guess it might be not that big of a deal, but they do have the option to do something else right now like f3 or d5. * although I guess there ain't no rule says a king can't castle out of pins. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 21:08
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:54 |
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No rule against castling out of a pin, but the king can't castle into, out of, or through check.
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Jul 17, 2017 02:58
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Snorb posted:No rule against castling out of a pin, but the king can't castle into, out of, or through check. Through check? so what, like if a rook was threatening the space right next to the king, you can't castle past it?
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Jul 17, 2017 04:40
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Talow posted:Through check? so what, like if a rook was threatening the space right next to the king, you can't castle past it? Correct. Which is why I was concerned about the pawn structure earlier.
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Jul 17, 2017 04:41
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Davin Valkri posted:Correct. Which is why I was concerned about the pawn structure earlier. A valid concern, but if we don't do an exchange now, that pawn structure is really fine. White has no threats on any of those squares within a number of moves.
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Jul 17, 2017 11:02
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:11
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This seems like a terrible move by White team, right guys? Let's initiate the slaughter. Queen to A5
HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 12:14
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I actually do think Queen to D4 is best. It opens our queen to either bait their queen into being taken by our knight or let us put their king in check with our queen.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:36
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Uh guys, you do realize that if we did Queen to D4 it would just get captured by their knight instead, right? Edit: Nevermind, forget that criticism, but it's still a very risky move to go for a queen trade.
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Jul 17, 2017 12:51
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I also back the alternative solution of Queen to D5. That threatens the undefended Bishop, their highly defended knight, their pawn and gives us ownership of the centre.chitoryu12 posted:I actually do think Queen to D4 is best. It opens our queen to either bait their queen into being taken by our knight or let us put their king in check with our queen. We can't do that, it's pinned. HOLY poo poo I JUST SAW QUEEN TO A5 WE NEED TO DO THAT
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Jul 17, 2017 12:55
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Qd5. Qa5+ takes the queen too far away from the center of the board and takes some of the pressure off the bishop at b5; Qxd4 trades us our queen for a pawn, Neither of those sound like great ideas to me.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:03
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Qa5 forces them to waste a move either covering the King's rear end or moving it, guaranteeing that the Bishop doesn't get moved which lets us get rid of the pin on our knight. It's strictly a better move than Qd5.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:16
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Qa5 forces them to waste a move either covering the King's rear end or moving it, guaranteeing that the Bishop doesn't get moved which lets us get rid of the pin on our knight. It's strictly a better move than Qd5. They could block with their knight and protect their bishop at the same time. I am in agreement that moving the queen is the right idea, I'm just not sure where specifically it should end up at.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:40
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Then next turn with move the pawn to A6 and take the bishop and a knight for the cost of one pawn.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:42
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I like Qd5 to threaten their bishop, knight and sole remaining developed pawn.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:43
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Qd5 does not threaten the knight, that move would be suicide for our Queen. Qa5 is the only way.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:45
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To clarify: It pins the knight there else we can take the pawn behind it and threaten his rook.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:49
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We're already pinning the knight there or else we take their Queen. It isn't changing the board state in any way in regards to that knight: it ain't moving regardless.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:51
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If we do Qa5, they do Nc3 and our queen is garbage. If we do Qd5, they do Nc3 and our queen is in danger. How would we respond? Qe6+? We lose the threat along the d rank that way.
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Jul 17, 2017 15:32
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Didn't someone suggest Qd7 earlier? That makes some sense to me, since after the castle we get a bit of Alekhine's Gun action right down the middle.
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Jul 17, 2017 15:43
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Worth pointing out that White is almost guaranteed to king-side castle as soon as they can now that they've moved out their knight. In general I'd say that we've entered the "staring match" portion of the game; now we're waiting to see who will blink first as it were and go on a full offensive...
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Jul 17, 2017 15:50
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I'm holding off voting for now until I see what a few more people think. Putting the king in check with Qa5+ would be neat for delaying a castle, but would it be enough of an advantage? I quit like getting to Qd5 to attack the bishop from a nice central position, though... although yeah, Nc3 would mess with that badly. On the other hand... I seem to remember Qd7 was the original plan, is there any reason not to stick with that?
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Jul 17, 2017 15:51
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I have an idea: Let's tell that bishop pinning our knight to piss off with Pawn to A6. If we want to keep White from castling, putting one of their more valuable pieces at immediate risk would be the best way to do that. For an added bonus it would set up a decent defensive line in that area for our queen-side castle. Edit: If we're really lucky, they'll try to maintain the pin with the bishop by moving it to A4, in which case we can run the queen to A5 check but make sure that White is completely incapable of protecting their bishop in that situation.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:02
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Pawn to A6 sounds promising. Still withholding my vote for the moment.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:21
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Qd7 sounds better than the other Queen moves to me, but I am in favor of A6.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:40
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I'm favoring pawn to A6, but waiting to vote until more opinions have been put out there.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:44
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Queen A5 leads to Knight C3, then we can do Pawn A6 and either win the central pawn or a bishop and a knight in exchange for a single pawn. Meanwhile Pawn A6 alone gives us nothing but freeing a knight. E: Fish, back me up on this, you're the good player in the thread, Qa5 is simply the best move we have! HerpicleOmnicron5 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 16:44
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Urgggh...dammitdammitdammit no matter what they do White's knight on B is in the perfect position to protect their bishop and let it continue the pin no matter what we do. All it has to do is go to C3 and it's keeping their bishop safe when it moves to A4. gently caress it, that route's not really a viable option. Changing my vote to Qd7.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:30
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Dr. Snark posted:Urgggh...dammitdammitdammit no matter what they do White's knight on B is in the perfect position to protect their bishop and let it continue the pin no matter what we do. All it has to do is go to C3 and it's keeping their bishop safe when it moves to A4. That's not true at all. After threatening with the queen and pushing the pawn forward, we create an extreme threat to both the bishop and the knight. Qd7 only pins the knight even more and threatens our Queen. Don't do Qd7. We'll lose. Qa5 genuinely is the only way! We force the enemy to be on the back foot for several turns and seize tempo again, we need to seize tempo!
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Jul 17, 2017 17:43
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:That's not true at all. After threatening with the queen and pushing the pawn forward, we create an extreme threat to both the bishop and the knight. Qd7 only pins the knight even more and threatens our Queen. Don't do Qd7. We'll lose. Qa5 genuinely is the only way! We really wouldn't threaten the knight at all; it'd be protected by the pawn at B2.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:52
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Dr. Snark posted:We really wouldn't threaten the knight at all; it'd be protected by the pawn at B2. We take the Bishop at B5 with our A6 pawn after the knight move up. Either they avenge it or they've lost material for nothing.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:00
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I'm feeling Qd7 now for a move into a queenside castle that should automatically gets our rook directly behind the queen. It's not the most aggressive play right now, but it should lead to a strong position down the line. Still don't want to vote just yet though. e: hmm, I'm a little concerned about Ne5 as a potential white response to Qd7. It breaks that rule of thumb of not moving the same minor piece twice, and of course opens up White's queen to capture by the bishop again, but it lets them threaten our bishop, knight and queen all at once. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 18:01
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Covski posted:
Huh, interesting. This is a somewhat unanticipated move, but a smart one. It's very obvious white is going for a king's side castle, and our main way into that would have been through f3. Now we need to get rid of the pin on our knight on c6 and develop our pieces. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Queen A5 leads to Knight C3, then we can do Pawn A6 and either win the central pawn or a bishop and a knight in exchange for a single pawn. Meanwhile Pawn A6 alone gives us nothing but freeing a knight. Sorry mac. One, I'm probably not the best player in this thread and two, Qa5 leads to Nc3 which both block us and gives white a fantastic threat picture while neutering our queen. In fact, that's probably their plan anyway. It's not a good move right now. I'm leaning heavily toward Qd7. Here's a thing we can try and hope for: Qd7, they do Nc3, we do O-O-O queen side castle, they go OH poo poo and do some weird defensive nonsense, maybe panic. However, IF they are going to castle kingside, we should maybe attack through the h2 diagonal with our queen from d6. We can support that by trading places bishop and knight, but only if they don't move any of their king side pawns. It's also a lot of moves for us, where a lot can happen. Another thing to consider is that we really want to threaten d3. Other than Nc3, Qd3 is a natural move for white now if they want to aggressively develop - which they absolutely have to, because look at that board. We can also attack through f corridor with Qd7, Ne4, Qf5, Bxf3, Qxf2. At this point, it's a positional thing: We still need options, and Qd7 opens up a lot of possibilities, not the least of which a very cool stack up with a tower for a very threatening structure. In my opinion, and thinking a bit further down the road: It's either between Qd7 or Bf5 to stop the white queen from getting outside to play. What do you guys think? We have plenty of time to discuss this, and we're well outside known territory and well into a positional warfare. We could also consider e6 to move our second bishop out and king side castle. If white fucks up, we'll get a pin on that knight. Otherwise, Qd5 leads to Nc3 and we lose a move repositioning. Nice piece of fish fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 18:42
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Paul.Power posted:I'm feeling Qd7 now for a move into a queenside castle that should automatically gets our rook directly behind the queen. It's not the most aggressive play right now, but it should lead to a strong position down the line. Still don't want to vote just yet though. Oh, drat, that's a good point. 6. ... Qd7 7. Ne5 would lead to our queen getting eaten no matter what. Would Qc7 or Qb6 be viable?
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Jul 17, 2017 18:47
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Nice piece of fish posted:Sorry mac. One, I'm probably not the best player in this thread and two, Qa5 leads to Nc3 which both block us and gives white a fantastic threat picture while neutering our queen. In fact, that's probably their plan anyway. It's not a good move right now. But by pinning the knight we can just easily grab the Bishop with the a6 pawn, we'd have both knights pinned and a bishop down which represents the majority of White's mobility, lost!
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Jul 17, 2017 18:51
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Davin Valkri posted:Oh, drat, that's a good point. 6. ... Qd7 7. Ne5 would lead to our queen getting eaten no matter what. It's a good point, actually. If we're expecting a king side castle, Qd6 is as good a move as Qd7 in terms of attack, and doesn't disadvantage us too bad. It forces no moves on us, and remember - unless knight on f3 is a direct threat to us, we take their queen if they move it.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:52
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All right, I like the look of Qd6. Any obvious flaws a few moves down the line I missed?
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Jul 17, 2017 19:00
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EDIT: I am convinced. Bxf3 CirclMastr fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 19:07
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Qd6 is at least not the awful Qd7. I'm still sticking to my guns on Qa5.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:09
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I like Qd6
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Jul 17, 2017 19:10
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