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syntaxfunction posted:Disagree. I personally never use reverb cause the rooms I'm in often have enough natural reverb. Delay, on the other hand, is a useful effect and to me always takes precedence over reverb unless I'm doing ambient stuff. Well lookey here Mr. I live in a church hall  All jokes aside, TolltheHounds is going to buy, sell then re-buy many kinds of FX pedals so I think the healthy debate here only reinforces that it's a personal thing 
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Jul 17, 2017 08:27
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Absolutely. Reverb is still fun as hell and I totally get why a lot of guitarist can't do without, it's just never personally stuck for me. I find it often mushes up my sound and I lose a lot of definition, even with only a splash. I do own a reverb pedal though, cause you never know when it'll strike you.
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Jul 17, 2017 08:38
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Pretty much the only times I use reverb are when I'm playing an archtop clean and when I'm playing surf on a strat. But in those situations I use a reverb about 95% of the time. Love the poo poo out of the Hall of Fame.
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Jul 17, 2017 09:02
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Kilometers Davis posted:I literally never turn off delay and reverb now. I'm that guy. Didn't realise Devin posted here
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Jul 17, 2017 10:15
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Hmmmm... I think maybe I'm muddying the waters because 99% of the time when I'm talking about reverb, I mean that subtle plate thing - not 'EHX Holy Grail > Cathedral setting" . I guess if you do have the natural acoustics for it to work then that's great - I play in an 8 ' x 10' room with a wooden floor and mostly full of junk.
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Jul 17, 2017 10:36
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TollTheHounds posted:Can you elaborate on this? I know that the lack of a built-in fx loop is the difference between my G1 and the new G2, but don't really know what that means. This is something the thread should've told you much earlier. Your old amp had a built in reverb, that reverb processed the sound *after* the distortion stage. A pedal processes the sound *before* it goes into the amp, so the amp's distortion will affect the already reverberated guitar's sound. Distorted reverb sound is nasty, a lot of guitarists don't mind, but with metal gain levels the nastiness may get too apparent. Lots of people put the $200 or whatever reverbs they got in front on the amp. It may sound kind of like every power chord is followed by a sheet of metal falling on a concrete floor, but for less extreme styles it will be ok. So an fx loop solves that problem, by letting you connect some of the pedals *after* the stage where the guitar sound is distorted with the tubes in the amp. So the signal comes out of the amp, thru the pedals, and then back into the amp. For example wah pedals are generally put before the amp, because the distortion will affect it in a pleasant way, and reverbs go in the loop. For what it's worth when I get in a metal mood I don't use reverb or delay, because you generally want the guitar's sound to be as in your face as possible. Any reverb adds a kind of a smudge and with a harmonically rich sound like a heavily distorted guitar it makes the sound muddy, for lack of better word. Of course with some genres, like doom, that may be desirable. Afterward you can add a subtle transparent software reverb to the recording. Another thing you can do, now that I think about it, with an fx loop is record dry sound while still hearing reverb or other effects, some people get a massive boost from having fx applied to what they're playing or singing, but you still want to record clean so it's easier to work with. loga mira fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 13:57
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This is some great info, thanks a ton guys! It's so funny, because I thought I "knew" guitars and amps, I just need to get better at the guitar part is all. Amps sound different sure but all you need is pedals if you want to tweak it! Now the past few pages made me realize there is so much I really had/have no clue about when it comes to amps, signals, effects, pedals etc. I don't THINK the lack of an fx loop will really be an issue for me, I suspect what I'm more after is a slight ( or maybe extreme/faded - so it's there but not quite kind of thing ) delay anyway, but I'm glad now I went with some cheap pedals first until I figure all this stuff out. I'm not particularly worried as when I bought it, I played a bunch and the guy used his own $5k+ ( seriously ) pedal board to tweak things as I fumbled through some Immortal, Dissection, and Iron Maiden riffs and it sounded pretty awesome. So I can get there, just a matter of figuring it out ( and on my budget ). I'm curious though, if the point of an fx loop is that things can be processed on the sound AFTER it's hit the amp, could I just...put some pedals between the head and the speaker? With the Night Train, it is a separate amp head, that then connects via a standard 1/4" cable to the speaker cab I've sat it on top of ( UK Celestion 10" Greenback ). So theoretically, I could have pedals pre-amp, and pedals post-amp/pre-speaker? Or is that a stupid theory? I don't know that I'd do that, I think at best it would be messy and weird, more wondering about the logic of it all.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:54
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TollTheHounds posted:I'm curious though, if the point of an fx loop is that things can be processed on the sound AFTER it's hit the amp, could I just...put some pedals between the head and the speaker? short answer: no
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Jul 17, 2017 17:58
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I'm kind of curious what would happen if someone did that. I'm guessing magic smoke would be involved.
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Jul 17, 2017 18:05
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Anime Reference posted:I'm kind of curious what would happen if someone did that. I'm guessing magic smoke would be involved. Wouldn't even be magic, just normal burnt transformer smoke :-)
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Jul 17, 2017 18:15
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syntaxfunction posted:I did a little experiment. I saw my little Vox Pathfinder 10 practice amp, and remembered it has "emulated line out", and it made me wonder how bad it actually is. I plugged into it and was like "eh, it's not that bad, it could probably work in a mix". The pathfinder was my first amp when I tried learning guitar many years ago, and I always thought it was pretty good for what it was. I don't think this result is bad for a demo or quick scratch type idea. What are you using for distortion? Are Tabs Take 3 and Bon Arpetite recorded with the Night Train?
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Jul 17, 2017 18:51
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TollTheHounds posted:I'm curious though, if the point of an fx loop is that things can be processed on the sound AFTER it's hit the amp, could I just...put some pedals between the head and the speaker? Longer answer: the signal from your guitar to the front of your amp is small, electric current is almost insensible. As it goes through your preamp it goes up a tiny bit, and that's where your FX loop is 'sliced in'. After that it hits a power amp - which literally turns that tiny electrical current you get from waving some metal infront of a magnet into something that can drive a 12" speaker loud enough to deafen you. The current going out of the power amp will absolutely kill any electronics it touches - it's a real fucker that the music industry uses the same connector, because you can't even use the same kind of cable (speaker cable must be thicker and rated for higher current)! EDIT: for extra kicks it will also probably kill your amp if you don't plug it into a speaker, because the amp 'expects' a certain load, otherwise that power gets dispersed internally and poof!
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Jul 17, 2017 19:07
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Got it, it was a stupid theory haha. Wow, what was I thinking, definitely won't be doing post-amp pedals, and clearly know even less than I thought I did about pedals, amps, and general electricity. XD On a related note, I was watching this video on expensive gain pedal ( 319 pounds or $416 USD ) vs. cheap pedal ( 39 pounds or $50 USD ) comparison and honestly I preferred the cheaper one, and when they were tweaking them I think a few times they managed to get them both to sound identical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_TbMOIdbY Granted, this is just via YouTube audio, I'm sure in person it might be different. But it does make me feel a bit better about cheaping out initially as it may be that I simply wouldn't/won't be able to tell the difference any way.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:22
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Yeah, agreed I'd never put a reverb pedal in front of an amp. I put digital reverbs in the effects loops of my Peavey combos, or between my pre-amp and power amp. My new Fender has no effects loop, so any reverb I would add would be in post/on a mixing board. I do have one thing I do with reverb to keep it from muddying things up: long-ish pre-delay. Digital reverbs let you dial in just when the reverb starts. I've found that delaying the onset of the reverb by ~100ms causes just enough of a delayed reverb that it sounds distinct from the dry sound, and you can get more ambience with smaller room sizes, so no need to go "Large Stadium" on everything. I tend to use a medium bright room setting, pre-delay it by 80-100ms, with early reflections turned down or off. Then I bring in the wet just enough to notice it, maybe a little more depending on the material I'm working with. You can also create a useful doubler effect by pushing up the pre-delay to about 200-250ms and adding a little more wet signal. There was a trend in the 80's to saturate everything under all sorts of reverbs. Gated verbs, huge halls, buried it all but the bass guitar and usually the kick drum, though there were plenty of kick-drum tricks with reverbs as well. In the early/mid 90's bands started doing near bone-dry recordings and I really dug that trend. Although I always appreciate a great drum kit with just the right reverbs/room sound on it. I wish my Blues Jr. had an effects loop. Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 19:50
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TollTheHounds posted:Granted, this is just via YouTube audio, I'm sure in person it might be different. But it does make me feel a bit better about cheaping out initially as it may be that I simply wouldn't/won't be able to tell the difference any way. you can't really judge the quality of guitar stuff off of price in part because so much of it is just paying for a name *cough* gibson *cough* and also because with anything involving electronic circuits in particular there's mountains of complete horseshit that's politely called marketing pedals in particular have gone through this stupid phase the past 15-ish years where just about everything's based off selling the same poo poo over and over to a handful of forums posters
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Jul 17, 2017 20:16
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If you haven't tried gated-reverbing your snare so it goes 'KA-haa' then you are missing out. I'll use the reverb on my amp or multi sometimes but I'm generally playing quietly so i need to overcook it to hear its effect. The modulated verb and the spring on my ME 50 are great for horrible noises though.
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Jul 17, 2017 20:26
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NonzeroCircle posted:Didn't realise Devin posted here  I actually got into and obsessed with him earlier this year because I realized we have a very similar approach to music, tone, and life in general. It was a really awesome little aha moment. Sucks I didn't grow up listening to his music but oh well. It was right when I needed to further reshuffle my approach to music and guitar. My Tele is actually in Open C right now 
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Jul 17, 2017 20:28
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I'll go to open C or B whenever I'm in a writing rut. By which I mean one of my guitars is nearly always in open C. To stick with delay/verb chat I really want an Ocean Machine but I cant afford it. I suppose I could sell the Vox Time Machine but I like that thing a lot.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:05
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NonzeroCircle posted:I'll go to open C or B whenever I'm in a writing rut. By which I mean one of my guitars is nearly always in open C. To stick with delay/verb chat I really want an Ocean Machine but I cant afford it. I suppose I could sell the Vox Time Machine but I like that thing a lot. It's a great tuning. I find it much more logical than standard, even if some chords are a pain in the rear end/impractical. Inversions and splitting voicings between instruments or tracks is ace though. Devin does that a bunch. I'd love to have an Ocean Machine too. If you're up for the challenge you should search for Chords of Orion on YouTube. He's one of my favorite ambient players and is currently doing an ambient songwriting contest with the winner getting an OM, ends August 2nd. I'm writing something for it now. Doubt I'll win but hey, might as well try.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:20
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That sounds interesting, thanks for the heads up, at least it may get me to finish something for once!
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Jul 17, 2017 21:28
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Dr. Faustus posted:
Good news! This is kinda possible (for some amps) to have a nice transparent effects loop added if you don't mind having some new holes made in the faceplate (or back plate) and there is room.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:28
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NonzeroCircle posted:That sounds interesting, thanks for the heads up, at least it may get me to finish something for once! Go for it! I'm been struggling to get a YouTube channel going even though I really want to, and struggling just as bad to actually complete songs and projects. I'm thinking of the contest as a prize dangling right in front of my face. Just the right amount of extra help to get things going. If you make a song for it you should post it here
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Jul 17, 2017 21:35
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Can confirm that open C minor is Gods own tuning. Of course you can't play anything 'normally' and it mostly comes out as diads and single-note runs but it does sound epic: https://soundcloud.com/williamayerst/eschatologist-irregular-apocalypse (give it to at least 1:30)
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Jul 17, 2017 21:43
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Shugojin posted:Good news! This is kinda possible (for some amps) to have a nice transparent effects loop added if you don't mind having some new holes made in the faceplate (or back plate) and there is room. You know, I used to GAS hard for the Vox Night Train. I wanted to build a stereo rig around a pair of them on some badass ported 1x12" or 2x12" speakers, and the main thing that stopped me was "no effects loop." Then I started pricing out the amps and cabs and realized it was just not a good idea for this little apartment. I bet it would sound awesome, though! I need to look into added a loop to the Blues Jr. I love putting my modulation effects in the loop. They just sound SO GREAT after the pre-amp stage.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:59
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Since I have no effects loop I started youtubing "reverb before amp" and it led me to some interesting / timely videos on just this. Here's an example of Reverb + Distortion before amp ( I assume, technically he only says it's reverb BEFORE distortion, but it seems to be that you ALWAYS put distortion/od before the amp anyway, fx loop or not ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvwxel6baNI Here's a longer video on Amps, fx loops, and pedal order therein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iplc4YHJikM The latter is particularly informative, and probably I should have watched it before spamming this thread. This guitar rabbit-hole just keeps getting deeper. What's next? Probably agonizing over a microphone to record myself on this thing. I suppose I should get more amps and pedals probably as well. gently caress.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:31
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TollTheHounds posted:Got it, it was a stupid theory haha. Wow, what was I thinking, definitely won't be doing post-amp pedals, and clearly know even less than I thought I did about pedals, amps, and general electricity. XD Honestly the main thing is going to be matching the pedal to the amp, and the amp to what you want to hear - there are just too many variables: - A Tubescreamer will push mids - An OCD will push everything - A Fender will have a more full/scooped sound - A Vox will have more upper-mids - A Marshall will have a more mid-hump sound - An Orange will have lots of low mids If your OD doesn't drive the amp, it can act as more of an EQ'ed boost. Sometimes your OD hits the right spot and pushes all the right frequencies relative to your amp. If your OD drives your amp too much it can compress areas (i.e. mid + mid, scoop + high end, etc.) If your OD pushes like a mack truck, then it will get disorted, which is often a desired state. Basically just don't stress about it - you'll go through half a dozen in the first couple of years, try not to sweat it and buy used if you can. EDIT: skip to 39:58 and see two holy grail Strat tones (saturated distortion and fuzz) and see that they're almost completely unknown pedals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLM_V5HXoLA&t=2338s Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 22:38
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TollTheHounds posted:but it seems to be that you ALWAYS put distortion/od before the amp anyway, fx loop or not Mostly, but you can also put distortion in the loop, which makes your amp sound a lot more like the distortion pedal and less like itself, because it comes after the preamp. If you want, you can bypass the preamp entirely (guitar -> distortion -> loop return), which changes the sound even more. It's not the normal thing, though.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:46
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Gorgar posted:If you want, you can bypass the preamp entirely (guitar -> distortion -> loop return), which changes the sound even more. It's not the normal thing, though. pedals meant to do that, where unity gain is set somewhere stupidly low like 9 o'clock, are becoming more common
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Jul 17, 2017 22:54
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TollTheHounds posted:Got it, it was a stupid theory haha. Wow, what was I thinking, definitely won't be doing post-amp pedals, and clearly know even less than I thought I did about pedals, amps, and general electricity. XD vemuram pedals are one of the cork-sniffiest of drive pedals. Super waste of money. There is something to be said for buying quality hardware with a good warranty, but there is really no difference between a 100 dollar drive pedal and a 400 dollar one. The circuits are way too simple to really gain much, and most of the boutiques are just gooped over versions of cheap standbys anyway, with a 30c tweak you could do yourself.
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Jul 17, 2017 22:58
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TollTheHounds posted:This guitar rabbit-hole just keeps getting deeper. What's next? Probably agonizing over a microphone to record myself on this thing. I suppose I should get more amps and pedals probably as well. my dude, what you really need to unlock your amp's potential and take your playing to that next level is a klon centaur https://reverb.com/p/klon-centaur-non-horsie
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Jul 17, 2017 23:01
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hanales posted:There is something to be said for buying quality hardware with a good warranty, but there is really no difference between a 100 dollar drive pedal and a 400 dollar one. The circuits are way too simple to really gain much, and most of the boutiques are just gooped over versions of cheap standbys anyway, with a 30c tweak you could do yourself. I agree in many cases, but that's a pretty huge oversimplification. I would never tell someone to spend 400 on a dirt pedal but there's a lot of quality in the 150-250 range.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:03
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Is there any reason a grown rear end man could want an ESP with EMGs? I don't even play metal:  It fulfills none of the roles required (two-pickup P90, less outrageous Humbucker) but it looks so pretty. Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 23:05
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Southern Heel posted:Is there any reason a grown rear end man could want an ESP with EMGs? I don't even play metal: Check out Matt Heafy's Epiphone signature, very similar and also maybe cheaper?
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Jul 17, 2017 23:32
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Southern Heel posted:Is there any reason a grown rear end man could want an ESP with EMGs? I don't even play metal: Also you might be okay with them depending on the model. Only some EMGs are garbage.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:34
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The Muppets On PCP posted:my dude, what you really need to unlock your amp's potential and take your playing to that next level is a klon centaur Jesus Christ. But John Mayer has one!
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Jul 18, 2017 00:03
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rio posted:Jesus Christ. But John Mayer has one! Well, it's not like you can plug something as plebeian as a Tube Screamer in a quarter-million-dollar Dumble.
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Jul 18, 2017 00:05
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Xenocidebot posted:Also you might be okay with them depending on the model. Only some EMGs are garbage. silver logo = 81s so yeah they're garbo rio posted:Jesus Christ. But John Mayer has one! klons are legit amazing in that they have an entire sub-market based around equally overpriced clones The Muppets On PCP fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 00:28
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Hellblazer187 posted:The pathfinder was my first amp when I tried learning guitar many years ago, and I always thought it was pretty good for what it was. I don't think this result is bad for a demo or quick scratch type idea. What are you using for distortion? Are Tabs Take 3 and Bon Arpetite recorded with the Night Train? The Pathfinder is just the Pathfinder's distortion channel. Tabs Take 3 is indeed the Night Train but Bon Appetite was just a demo into AmpliTube using a pedal that's been heavily modified to get that sound. It's a sort of secret weapon cause the base pedal is hard to find and the mod we specified so I don't think there's another pedal exactly like it anywhere! But yeah, the Pathfinder isn't the worst thing I've heard. It definitely works as a practice amp and takes pedals fairly decently honestly. I just saw it there and decided to do a quick clip comparison. The Muppets On PCP posted:klons are legit amazing in that they have an entire sub-market based around equally overpriced clones But you see the originals have a wider soundstage and more openness and and and
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Jul 18, 2017 03:46
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So, my step-father died a while back and left behind a ton of acoustic and electric guitars + equipment. My mom offered to let me pick a couple of things out, because I had told her I had thought of learning to play (how original). The problem is, I know nothing about guitars or amps. There are a couple of hollow body Ibanez, a thinline semi-hollow '72 Telecaster, a "regular" Telecaster (both made in Mexico), and a few Stratocasters (one make in the US, the rest Mexico) one is a deluxe. All are in pretty much like new condition with cases, and I don't think any of them are older than 2012 (edit: one is from 2005, one 2007, and I think the rest are newer). I don't think any have been modified, but I'm really not sure. The amps are a Fender Bassman, a Fender Blues Juniour, a Fender Vibro Champ XD, and a big Fender and a Roland that I couldn't find the serial numbers on. The last two were used, but the others were new afaik. Any suggestions on what to avoid/take? I've already picked a Taylor acoustic (the cheapest one, the other two were $1000 and $1500+ concert guitars that I didn't feel comfortable asking for.) I have all the serial numbers and pictures if anyone wants specific info. If I'm not into playing, I'll probably just give whatever I take back to her. I think she mainly just wants to get rid of them for the space (and the money would be nice too, of course). I've got a while before I go back to her place and get whatever I pick, so I don't think I'm under any kind of deadline. Edit: If it makes any difference, I have huge hands, 9" from the tip of my middle finger to the base of my palm. Haerc fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 09:15
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Well, IMO hand size is irrelevant unless you specifically want to play Hendrix/Vai stuff. In terms of raw value the USA Strat (I imagine the deluxe) is probably the priciest. I don't know a huge amount about those amps other than if 'the big Fender' is a Hot Rod Deluxe then that's probably a good bet. The big roland is probably a JC120 which is a great sounding clean amp but that's literally all it does. re: Klon chat, I got a hand built clone pedal for pittance from a UK guitar forum and it sounds great, it's on all the time unless I specifically want a mellow (HA!) sound. re: new guitar chat:  If this thing was HSH I think I'd be in love, but it seems to be a very 'retro' appointed guitar, probably not even worth going to check out in person... Southern Heel fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 10:20
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