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Good plan Hillary. Also so long and boring that I don't think any voters bothered to read it.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:59
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VitalSigns posted:Doesn't repealing Obamacare with a two-year delay and extending it forever have some pretty serious problems. Yes, but actually it's already happening this year on a lesser scale. Insurers don't trust the GOP to keep CSR payments flowing and there's uncertainty about the executive attempting to not enforce the individual mandate. So premiums are going up next year and the GOP doesn't even have to do anything; they cause risk to insurers to go up simply by being in power. 2017 was already an awful year for ACA enrollment since a lot of people saw the GOP take control of the government and assumed ACA would be gone soon, anyway. Eliminating CSR payments (which is within the executive's power, unless Congress intervenes) has been estimated to cause premiums to rise by ~20% to compensate for it. And insurers aren't going to be caught out by the GOP playing chicken with this; if they think there's a good chance the GOP will eliminate them, insurers are just gonna bake the premium increase into their ACA plans that they submit in September so that they don't lose even more money from the GOP loving around with the ACA. This, of course, is on top of several insurers already fleeing from the individual markets as quickly as possible to reduce their exposure to ACA, and they're being rewarded with their stock prices going up because of it.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:i'm having a hard time imagining a bill that Republicans could agree to that Democrats could also agree to. Maybe a Medicare for All bill but we let Republicans take credit. Guarantee the cost sharing subsidies. Republicans actually want those paid they just wanted to grandstand with their lawsuit and then caught the car.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:i'm having a hard time imagining a bill that Republicans could agree to that Democrats could also agree to. Maybe a Medicare for All bill but we let Republicans take credit. Eliminate the medical device tax and streamline/loosen some employer regulations in exchange for guaranteeing cost sharing subsidies and making the exchanges cheaper and more accessible for people without employer coverage and/or people in non Medicaid expansion states.
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Jul 18, 2017 16:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:i'm having a hard time imagining a bill that Republicans could agree to that Democrats could also agree to. Maybe a Medicare for All bill but we let Republicans take credit. A robust, inexpensive public option, but we let the GOP entirely deregulate the private insurance industry in order to victimize anyone dumb enough to not take the government plan.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:24
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Cabbit posted:A robust, inexpensive public option, but we let the GOP entirely deregulate the private insurance industry in order to victimize anyone dumb enough to not take the government plan. Believe it or not Germany lets people who opt out of statutory insurance for private insurance purchase loosely regulated plans that are often richer in benefits than government insurance. There is a time and place for purely private insurance but for most people they shouldn't be subject to the whims of profit in health insurance.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:27
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Peven Stan posted:Believe it or not Germany lets people who opt out of statutory insurance for private insurance purchase loosely regulated plans that are often richer in benefits than government insurance. There is a time and place for purely private insurance but for most people they shouldn't be subject to the whims of profit in health insurance. I'm sure you know this, but it's worth noting that Germany avoided the death spiral from letting people opt out of the standard system by only letting predefined categories of people do it, like those that meet a minimum income threshold. This keeps a stable base of people, healthy and sick, in the statutory health insurance pools.
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Jul 18, 2017 17:40
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https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/887350850481397761 thus goes the third attempt at trumpcare im sure the fourth will be equally as successful as the other three
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Jul 18, 2017 17:43
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'm sure you know this, but it's worth noting that Germany avoided the death spiral from letting people opt out of the standard system by only letting predefined categories of people do it, like those that meet a minimum income threshold. This keeps a stable base of people, healthy and sick, in the statutory health insurance pools. This sounds like a great model for a conservative vision of US healthcare. Pity the actual US conservatives are bugfuck crazy "let them die in the streets" Nazis.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:05
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Cabbit posted:A robust, inexpensive public option, but we let the GOP entirely deregulate the private insurance industry in order to victimize anyone dumb enough to not take the government plan. Let the bug gently caress crazies have they're cake. You want to have your super lovely healthcare that doesn't cover poo poo go for it, you have to get it then you are disenrolled in public plan.. The rest of us will just be watching you kill yourself. If you want to swim with sharks while you are bleeding be my guest but dont force me to swim with them, especially if your proposal is to put laser beams on their heads.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:i'm having a hard time imagining a bill that Republicans could agree to that Democrats could also agree to. Maybe a Medicare for All bill but we let Republicans take credit. The most likely thing that comes to mind is a dedicated opioid crisis program. It would be perceived as benefiting white people, so it would probably pass the sniff test for a decent amount of Republicans. evilweasel posted:Guarantee the cost sharing subsidies. Republicans actually want those paid they just wanted to grandstand with their lawsuit and then caught the car. While the Republicans probably don't want to catch the blame for being in power while the health system deteriorates, it also doesn't do them any good to make the ACA more functional.
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Jul 18, 2017 20:08
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BlueBlazer posted:Let the bug gently caress crazies have they're cake. You want to have your super lovely healthcare that doesn't cover poo poo go for it, you have to get it then you are disenrolled in public plan.. The rest of us will just be watching you kill yourself.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:11
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So? Let the government subsidize it then, and pay for it with progressive taxation until solvent. I bet if that happens suddenly all the rich Republican donors will have a sudden change of heart about whether young, healthy people should be forced into the general risk pool.
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Jul 18, 2017 21:21
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The Democrats really only need to convince one Republican to support their healthcare plan, and luckily he's rather unconcerned about policy details and mainly wants to be known as a winner who made a great deal to repeal Obamacare. With Trump's support, a lot of Republicans will fall into line.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:10
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Dead Reckoning posted:The problem is, if opting out of the government insurance allows you to avoid paying money, the young and healthy will do it, leaving only the sick on the rolls, the aforementioned death spiral. You only get to opt out if you actually get something. And go through the paper work to show it. Laziness will beat out spite.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:18
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Konstantin posted:The Democrats really only need to convince one Republican to support their healthcare plan, and luckily he's rather unconcerned about policy details and mainly wants to be known as a winner who made a great deal to repeal Obamacare. With Trump's support, a lot of Republicans will fall into line. Can I have a pony? Or do you have any information that the dems are trying this?
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Jul 18, 2017 22:24
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PT6A posted:So? Let the government subsidize it then, and pay for it with progressive taxation until solvent. If people are paying for their insurance with direct income taxes, they can't actually opt out.
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Jul 18, 2017 22:49
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Dead Reckoning posted:If people are paying for their insurance with direct income taxes, they can't actually opt out. They can opt out of coverage, they can't opt out of paying. Same way anyone can opt out of flying, but can't opt out of paying for the FAA
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Jul 19, 2017 03:47
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Zero chance any Republicans accept that. "Not in my
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Jul 19, 2017 03:54
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Fulchrum posted:They can opt out of coverage, they can't opt out of paying. Same way anyone can opt out of flying, but can't opt out of paying for the FAA Yeah, as I see it, people would pay a standard rate for a "healthy person" to buy into government healthcare, and then general revenue from taxes would make up whatever shortfall. A few years of that and the billionaire cunts will be pleading on bended knee for the return of the Obamacare mandate.
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Jul 19, 2017 05:46
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For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? I'm not seeing huge pushes to dismantle the interstates or anything.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:42
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jivjov posted:For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? I'm not seeing huge pushes to dismantle the interstates or anything. Large public infrastructure gets sold off and "privatized". When they get around to it, the push will be to make the interstates toll roads instead.
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Jul 19, 2017 13:45
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So republicans are just libertarians playing the long game?
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Jul 19, 2017 13:48
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jivjov posted:So republicans are just libertarians playing the long game? better to say libertarians are republicans who haven't figured out not to give the game away yet. see: Ryan, Paul
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Jul 19, 2017 14:59
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jivjov posted:For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? Nothing. "gently caress You, Got Mine." They've got their money and they want to spend it on themselves, if at all.
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Jul 19, 2017 15:14
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Spiritus Nox posted:Nothing. "gently caress You, Got Mine." They've got their money and they want to spend it on themselves, if at all. The most retread argument in Libertarian circles is whether roads and police should be privatized. Everything else is beyond the pale for them (i.e the government is mostly there to keep the poors from voting themselves anything and protecting property-holders).
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Jul 19, 2017 15:33
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jivjov posted:So republicans are just libertarians playing the long game? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Trust_Fund
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Jul 19, 2017 16:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Large public infrastructure gets sold off and "privatized". When they get around to it, the push will be to make the interstates toll roads instead. I wish! Missouri is conservative as poo poo and refuses to convert I-70 to a toll road to fund not-collapsing. They'd rather just divert funding from schools.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:41
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PerniciousKnid posted:I wish! Missouri is conservative as poo poo and refuses to convert I-70 to a toll road to fund not-collapsing. They'd rather just divert funding from schools. Don't fall for it. They'll make it a toll road and let it collapse anyway.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:24
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Fulchrum posted:They can opt out of coverage, they can't opt out of paying. Same way anyone can opt out of flying, but can't opt out of paying for the FAA Also, understand that a lot of people have legitimate concerns about going to a mandatory "everyone on Medicare/the VA" model.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:33
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Yes its asmall amount of people yelling at the top of their lungs about keeping their plans or not paying taxes. What would satisfy these people? Not paying mah taxes, and keep the plan they view as the best in the world(paid for their employer out of some sort of institutional momentum.). Let those people keep doing what they are doing, its the other 75% of us that are either A. being screwed over by said employer health insurance, b. Don't have insurance/ wont get insurance because they are misers c. Are on Medicare/Medicaid Proposed solution. Automatically enroll everyone into Medicaid that does not have proof of insurance, though if you have lovely insurance feel free to enroll anyways. 100-150$ a month/payroll tax, if you are above the 1.5x poverty line subsidized if under that[[Insert progressive formulas here]]. You make more than 250k a year you will be taxed at a rate to help make up the shortfall, if there is any. If you are given insurance through your employer or purchase your own insurance/casket you will receive tax credit of the 100-150$/mo, with your proof of insurance. If you do not enroll and have a cheap high deductible plan, good for you you save a few bucks a month but good luck if you get hurt, the paper trail is there to deny you coverage you selfish gently caress If you are unemployed and not paying any taxes you are subsidized and have the paper trail to back it up. If you have a private plan that's plated in unobtainium by your employer, good for you, take back your payroll tax you selfish gently caress. Let the market go nuts and deregulate to kingdom come, go swim with the sharks, you idiots who think you can negotiate with trillion dollar health conglomerates. The rest of us small businesses will enroll in this new public option, maybe we have a supplemental insurance that helps out with your kids braces or something. Also if you get unemployed because the ditch digging operation that was paying slave wages/company scrip is forced to pay a minimum wage and just bought a backhoe, you are covered! Employees who are sick of their high deductible poo poo plans offered by their employers can opt-out get a raise and be covered under something that resembles fair coverage. Anything is bettter than the status quo. It's not "Everyone is on the Medicare model" its "Everyone can be on the Medicare model". Force the lovely people to provide the paper work for their decision, not the other way around with the poor forced to provide mountains of paper work to be accepted. BlueBlazer fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 18:29
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jivjov posted:For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? I'm not seeing huge pushes to dismantle the interstates or anything. All money should be given to rich people and anyone who doesn't have money should be converted into money for rich people.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:38
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jivjov posted:For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? I'm not seeing huge pushes to dismantle the interstates or anything. poo poo white people benefit from. If Medicare segregated risk pools by race we'd have single payer already
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Jul 19, 2017 18:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Large public infrastructure gets sold off and "privatized". When they get around to it, the push will be to make the interstates toll roads instead. We recently had a freeway expansion in California between Orange and Riverside county. They purposely left a choke point to divert people to the new"Express Lanes," except now its a crap shoot if these toll lanes are faster or not because the choke is shared with all the lanes. It blew my mind. My commute has gone up 10 mins since before the construction started. But I might get 3 mins back if I spend up to 8 dollars on the new toll lanes. Not to mention the old stretch of "express lanes" that have been around since '94 is getting congested as well. Its all too little too late with no real relief in sight.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:54
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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I never had to deal with a toll road in my life until I drove from Tennessee to New Hampshire and hit several. I was literally like a deer in headlights, I had no idea what to do.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:00
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jivjov posted:For all these people who whine "my taxes shouldn't pay for sick people"...what are they okay with their taxes paying for? I'm not seeing huge pushes to dismantle the interstates or anything. Large amounts of people just don't understand insurance or life in general. If you're a healthy working person you're going to subsidize healthcare for other people no matter what. It doesn't really matter whether it's taxes or premiums. Like I've had arguments with Obamacare haters and all it came down to is this - they didn't understand what insurance is. Shockingly they also don't get how covering pre-existing conditions goes hand in hand with the insurance mandate and cost regulations (which prevent companies from just charging 100x for a cancer enrollee).
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Jul 19, 2017 23:04
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jivjov posted:So republicans are just libertarians playing the long game? My step grandpa believes nobody should pay taxes and bitches when he has to go through toll roads.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:09
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asdf32 posted:Large amounts of people just don't understand insurance or life in general. If you're a healthy working person you're going to subsidize healthcare for other people no matter what. It doesn't really matter whether it's taxes or premiums. Yeah, willful ignorance combined with extreme selfishness and spite. The thought of paying for some stranger's hospital bill enrages them, especially if they make the lazy assumption that most medical expenses are due to individual irresponsibility.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:19
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Eliminate the medical device tax and streamline/loosen some employer regulations in exchange for guaranteeing cost sharing subsidies and making the exchanges cheaper and more accessible for people without employer coverage and/or people in non Medicaid expansion states. Something Trump was pushing during the election that has mysteriously fallen by the wayside is allowing international import of prescription drugs. The big pharma companies live in terror of Americans paying Canadian prices.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:50
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Mr Hootington posted:My step grandpa believes nobody should pay taxes and bitches when he has to go through toll roads. Uhhhh, so how does he want the roads paid for? Good will and free asphalt?
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Jul 19, 2017 23:53
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