|
Twig is totally the best of wildbow's work so far, since he's actually grown somewhat as a writer and is able to do more quieter scenes instead of trying to escalate everything. I'm not 100% caught up on Twig yet, just pretty close, but while there is plenty of escalation, it's escalation that seems properly foreshadowed and built up in the right way, rather than it being "boom here's another giant threat".
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 04:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:10 |
|
|
Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:If you're not listening to the We've got Worm podcast alongside your reread you're missing out this is a pro suggestion Actual I'd say it's even safe for first-time reads. They're pretty careful about spoilers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2017 18:41
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:Twig is totally the best of wildbow's work so far, since he's actually grown somewhat as a writer and is able to do more quieter scenes instead of trying to escalate everything. I'm not 100% caught up on Twig yet, just pretty close, but while there is plenty of escalation, it's escalation that seems properly foreshadowed and built up in the right way, rather than it being "boom here's another giant threat". I think it helps some that the characters have powers/abilities that are relatively set in stone and mundane in nature. It's consistently emphasized that even the more combat oriented Lambs, like Gordon, Mary, and sorta Helen, can't reliably handle more than a couple normal adults at once (unless they have time to set up an ambush or something). While Taylor technically uses the same ability throughout Worm, she definitely "levels it up" (probably the biggest "level up" is when she starts using silk, effectively granting her a sort of weak telekinesis within a several block radius), in addition to having access to a variety of other people with super powers to coordinate. Speaking of weak telekinesis, I remember reading somewhere that Wildbow said something about Parian not using her ability in the most effective way. I'm kinda wondering how her ability is supposed to optimally be used. Maybe she's supposed to just control swarms of light objects? Make needles fly into peoples' eyes? It seems like there's gotta be a lot of flexibility to "highly coordinated and detailed telekinesis over light objects", though in practice it seems like most applications would just end up being somewhat inferior versions of what Taylor does with her bugs. edit: I wonder if she could wrap up someone in cloth and then inflate the cloth with her telekinesis to capture them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 07:34
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Speaking of weak telekinesis, I remember reading somewhere that Wildbow said something about Parian not using her ability in the most effective way. I'm kinda wondering how her ability is supposed to optimally be used. We don't know. I think he confirmed some people got it correctly in private messages to him but no public statement. What we know is that it is supposedly powerful enough to stall Behemoth for an unknown period of time and can be done after her 'realization' of the power and without more preparation than she has on hand at an Endbringer battlefield.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 07:48
|
|
|
I don't if anyone else is reading the Gods are Bastards but I'm so happy to be done with all this computer/sysadmin poo poo for now
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 19:34
|
|
|
Elyv posted:I don't if anyone else is reading the Gods are Bastards but I'm so happy to be done with all this computer/sysadmin poo poo for now It's really the worst possible direction they could have taken the story in. "This Fantasy Setting Was Really Science Fiction All Along!!" is a trope that requires a ton of careful, careful writing to sell and TGAB doesn't pass that bar. I'm glad it's over... for now, at least.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2017 20:09
|
|
|
Elyv posted:I don't if anyone else is reading the Gods are Bastards but I'm so happy to be done with all this computer/sysadmin poo poo for now I just got up to this and it was pretty disappointing. It's almost always a let down when an author can't just let magic be magical. I don't think you should go into the hows and whys of magic unless your answer to those questions is amazing and TGAB's weren't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
Dire Lemming posted:I just got up to this and it was pretty disappointing. It's almost always a let down when an author can't just let magic be magical. I don't think you should go into the hows and whys of magic unless your answer to those questions is amazing and TGAB's weren't. It's come up twice in a biggish way so far, the second one was way more annoying to me but that might be because I was caught up with the story instead of binging it
|
|
#
?
Jul 4, 2017 07:57
|
|
|
blastron posted:It's really the worst possible direction they could have taken the story in. "This Fantasy Setting Was Really Science Fiction All Along!!" is a trope that requires a ton of careful, careful writing to sell and TGAB doesn't pass that bar. I'm glad it's over... for now, at least. I'll be the dissenting opinion here. I really like the sci fi explanation behind it. I guess it's a just a personal preference because I tend to really enjoy very explained magic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
I like that the Elder Gods were horrible nerds who got kicked off the Earth and decided to make their own planet with magic and elves and lightsabers. "Why is there so much horrifically dangerous magic tech just lying around?" "Some geek thought it would look cool."
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2017 03:53
|
|
|
idk if there's already a thread for it, and maybe it doesn't belong here, being shorter-form mixed media- but is anyone else reading Jon Bois's 17776? its good its real good
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2017 10:23
|
|
|
Peanut Butler posted:idk if there's already a thread for it, and maybe it doesn't belong here, being shorter-form mixed media- but is anyone else reading Jon Bois's 17776? Here's a link for everyone and yes it's incredible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
I don't think there's a thread for it and, yes, it's fantastic.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2017 02:34
|
|
|
Out of curiosity, who do you guys think the Red Robe is in Mother of Learning?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
Megazver posted:Out of curiosity, who do you guys think the Red Robe is in Mother of Learning? I think he's that other student who went missing and Zorian couldn't track down. I think he tricked Zach into starting the loop in some way, something like Zach being able to get back at his guardian and restore the family name while the other student just wanted the academy and nation to suffer. Zach found out Red Robe's real plan and got mind wiped. Red Robe slips out of the loop leaving Zach stuck until the end, not realized Zorian is also looping. I'm also waiting on them to figure out that they will need to counteract the demon summoning during the invasion, as it's a bit of a wildcard they can't experience during the loop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
Agreed, if it's possible to guess it's definitely that guy. Since sort of by necessity Red Robe has to be someone Zorian and Zach aren't currently interacting with - he's pretty much the only named character that fits that bill and has more than like three words of backstory.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 09:46
|
|
|
Yeah, it basically has to be him or something completely out of left field.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
Megazver posted:Out of curiosity, who do you guys think the Red Robe is in Mother of Learning? My personal excessively obvious guess is Zach's guardian.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 22:18
|
|
|
How is mother of learning? The rankings are not very useful for me since that idiotic mimic fiction plus multiple mooderno ones are perennial hits - the latter is absurdly wish fulfillmenty and misogynistic. I'd just rather not read ten chapters to find the hot girl who ignored the main character suddenly needs him to save her from rapists, then immediately sleeps with him.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
Good but it updates too slow so I tend to forget about it until the email alert.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
Mother of Learning is good. No rape, no damsels in distress, no harem bullshit. The protagonist starts off as an unlikable jerk but quickly develops as a character. It's like watching a surly antisocial teenager growing up and gaining superpowers as he learns to overcome his character flaws and work with people.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 22:53
|
|
|
Avulsion posted:Mother of Learning is good. No rape, no damsels in distress, no harem bullshit. The protagonist starts off as an unlikable jerk but quickly develops as a character. It's like watching a surly antisocial teenager growing up and gaining superpowers as he learns to overcome his character flaws and work with people. Good to hear. It's kind of making me question my taste to see so much horrible stuff in this list along with stuff which seems genuinely interesting or well written.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 22:55
|
|
|
Well, I guess it's time for my dumb pet theory. I don't think it's Veyers the fire-guy. He was, by all accounts, an underachieving twat and he had no obvious connection to the whole loop business. We also haven't met him at all, so if in the end it's him going "HA HA! IT'S ME, GUY YOU'VE NEVER MET" it's going to be fairly mediocre storytelling - and the author, so far, has been really good at this poo poo. Also, he's the guy who's propped up as the most obvious suspect, so by rules of mystery writing, he's the false lead. No, I think it's Zach. Wait, no, sorry. Let me try again. He's a Zach simulacrum gone rogue. Evidence: We got a lot of foreshadowing about how simulacra can go rogue after a while if their originator isn't especially responsible and moral, and so far Zorian I believe has had his copies running for more or less the entirety of the loop with nothing worse than them pulling pranks on him. Zach is a nice dude but he also strikes me as someone with less resolve and self-control than Zorian and that foreshadowing, I feel, is more than just something to keep us on our toes. Then, Zach mentions there is an odd discrepancy between his abilities and his mana supply. You know what does that? Having a simulacrum out there. Admittedly, he mentions he has MORE mana than his 'magnitude' would entail, which is definitely not how we've been told it works, but once we're in weird self-empowered simulacrum territory, who knows what fuckery has happened? The anomaly doesn't match anything we've been told, but it's still a very suspicious anomaly in that specific area. Zach doesn't know the simulacrum spell, sure. But he's also been thoroughly mind-scrubbed and, if my theory is true, that would be the number one thing to edit out. And, y'know, Zach might not be a huge-rear end nerd like Zorian, but he's still someone who's spent his decades in Zero-Responsibility Groundhog Month Land grinding obscure powerful magic instead of just kicking back and pounding pussy for thirty years, including getting pretty good (if not as good as Zorian who kinda had to by necessity) at the boring rear end Xvim-style poo poo just for the gently caress of it, and him going "oh I guess I don't have a prereq to learn this incredibly powerful and useful spell, guess I'll just throw it away and never bother with it again" strikes me a bit off, if not entirely out of character. I also got a vibe that Red Robe's relationship with Zach went beyond "ah, the other loop guy." The main blow against this theory is the minor inconvenient fact that, according to what the characters been told so far, simulacra should disappear after the reset. (Although, have we actually seen Zorian keep one going up to the point of reset and then verify that?) Thing is, in stories like this, which hinge on an ever expanding ruleset for the magic, there is always room for a later reveal of an 'except' when it's time for all the pieces to finally fall into place. Simulacra don't persist after the reset... except if they're made by the guy with the original super-marker. Except if they manage to survive the reset by taking over/riding in/doing other soul magic fuckery on someone else's body. (Poor Veyers, perhaps?) Except if, in last ditch effort, they try waiting the reset out in the Guardian's room. Except if they bind themselves to a phylactery by doing what liches use the simulacrum spell for. The rules are open enough that, if I had to take over the story as a writer, I could come up with half a dozen ideas more. Have I figured it out? I dunno, man. Probably not. But until I'm proven wrong, I'm sticking to this theory, because it's fun. Megazver fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jul 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
Megazver posted:Well, I guess it's time for my dumb pet theory. I like that theory. It's well thought out, but in my mind I just shortened it to Zach made an angst horcrux lich because he wanted a friend during the looping.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
That's a really good theory.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 01:59
|
|
|
Megazver posted:Well, I guess it's time for my dumb pet theory. I don't think it's Veyers the fire-guy. He was, by all accounts, an underachieving twat and he had no obvious connection to the whole loop business. We also haven't met him at all, so if in the end it's him going "HA HA! IT'S ME, GUY YOU'VE NEVER MET" it's going to be fairly mediocre storytelling - and the author, so far, has been really good at this poo poo. Also, he's the guy who's propped up as the most obvious suspect, so by rules of mystery writing, he's the false lead. Zach is the simulacrum.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 03:20
|
|
|
NinjaDebugger posted:Zach is the simulacrum. I suppose this could happen, but that would involve Real Evil Zach mind-editing a simulacrum and then just leaving it running around forever instead of just reabsorbing it at will. This strikes me as a bit too overcomplicated.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 09:12
|
|
|
Megazver posted:I suppose this could happen, but that would involve Real Evil Zach mind-editing a simulacrum and then just leaving it running around forever instead of just reabsorbing it at will. This strikes me as a bit too overcomplicated.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 13:32
|
|
|
Hey, I have a question. What do yall think is the shittiest power in Worm? I'm gonna say Felix Swoop. His power is literally just to set birds on fire and program them with movements. Like, some random dude wearing a fire-proof suit (or, uh, a gun) could defeat him. He doesn't even sense what his birds sense, so he doesn't have the option of staying out of sight like Taylor does. The most unexpectedly bad power would probably be Glory Girl's. Most powers in Worm seem like they would, either directly or indirectly, make it very difficult for a group of normal humans with modern weapons to defeat, but a single person with an automatic weapon could defeat Glory Girl (since the first bullet would knock down her shields). Most other people can either shrug off that sort of damage or avoid it through not needing to expose themselves in the first place (like Taylor). Or they have some other ability that at least brings something uniquely useful to the table (like Vista or something).
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
Leet got stuck with a lovely power only because by the time you figure out what the "rule" is you've probably exhausted half of your possible designs. Victor's power basically will only ever make him "peak-human" and nothing more, so it's kinda lovely, but it's utility I think makes up for it. Scapegoat's power would be pretty awful to have. Whatever Chuckles' power is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
The big problem with Glory Girl's power is that Glory Girl has it. Give it to someone like Grace and she could probably rock it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
q_k posted:The big problem with Glory Girl's power is that Glory Girl has it. Give it to someone like Grace and she could probably rock it. Grace also has "kickass fighting skills" as one of her powers, so I don't think it's really fair to say "well what if she had Glory Girl's powers in addition to her own." Though I do think that Glory Girl's particular type of force field would be much more effective if it were a secondary power for someone who has some way to reliably avoid getting hit (which Glory Girl doesn't, really; as I mentioned, anyone with a gun that can fire reasonably fast could take her down). To make things worse, apparently Glory Girl can't make full use of her super strength while her shield is down, and punching things makes her shield go down from the impact (it's just that people don't notice). Pussy Quipped posted:Leet got stuck with a lovely power only because by the time you figure out what the "rule" is you've probably exhausted half of your possible designs. Regarding someone like Victor, it seems like it would be much more lucrative for someone with such a power to just live as a regular human. Same goes for Uber. Scapegoat's power falls under the general category of "has a lot of utility, so it's okay that it isn't that useful in combat."
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2017 23:30
|
|
|
Swoop's got a dumb power but lol if you seriously think the majority of Worm's characters wouldn't get murdered by people with firearms. There's a reason why the story basically goes "mumble mumble no one uses guns unwritten rules mumble mumble".
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:
I meant more that he has to physically experience any injury he "heals". No thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 02:19
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:Swoop's got a dumb power but lol if you seriously think the majority of Worm's characters wouldn't get murdered by people with firearms. A lot of characters have some sort of ability that would allow them to handle reasonable numbers of people with guns. Taylor doesn't need to be physically present, same sorta goes for Bitch, and Grue and Imp both have ways to avoid them. It seems like most Brute parahumans are also more or less capable of withstanding small arms fire as well. But yeah, there is a big plot hole of sorts in the fact that human militaries don't participate in Endbringer fights, since modern weaponry is capable of doing more raw damage/destruction than all but the absolute top tier capes. Like, Purity is supposed to be near the top in terms of being flying artillery, and she's not much stronger than, well, regular artillery. I mean, they won't be able to kill them either, but the same is true for parahumans. They could at least help with first aid and what have you. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jul 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 07:00
|
|
Ytlaya posted:A lot of characters have some sort of ability that would allow them to handle reasonable numbers of people with guns. Taylor doesn't need to be physically present, same sorta goes for Bitch, and Grue and Imp both have ways to avoid them. It seems like most Brute parahumans are also more or less capable of withstanding small arms fire as well. A lot of characters really don't. Some of the truly powerful upper cases do, like Lung and Crawler and such, but the vast majority of Worm characters are still quite vulnerable to modern-day police and/or militaries. That's not even ascertaining how technology and equipment and organizational tactics would have advanced to counter parahumans. The military and law enforcement of the world would get Very Good at dealing with parahumans, y'know? It's not a plot hole, it's just not the sort of story Wildbow wanted to tell. A world of heroes who are immune to what the average person can throw at them while doing more damage than an artillery barrage is not a world of heroics, it's a world of horrors. Again, for all the lip service WB did to make the world feel consistent and grounded, he wasn't truly interested in an exploration of this sort of thing (hence the whole 'Cauldron set up the whole world to be this way' eventual excuse) For example, Taylor doesn't need to be physically present -- but a lot of the time she is, particularly when she's just starting out. Bitch, too. Imp might be the hardest, sure, but isn't her ability defeated by cameras and such? Dragon sees right through it. Grue is solved by 'firing into the big smoky cloud'. Regent and TT can't do a thing against it. Put on a level playing field, a police officer with a handgun could probably put down many of the Undersiders. A fully-equipped and briefed response team of whatever SWAT equivalent almost certainly could. But it's not a criticism of just them. Even the Wards and most of the Brockton Bay Protectorate heroes are probably just as vulnerable. We are very good at killing.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 07:22
|
|
|
I think Miss Militia had the worst power. Her power was legit "I can summon a weapon". Like, do you have a credit card and gun store in your town? Congrats - you too have Miss Militia's "superpower". Also I agree, in hindsight it really seems like most supervillians / superheroes would get rolled by a group of guys with guns, radios, and cameras. But the whole setting sort of hinges on everyone wearing kid gloves all the time in a weird way, I think that gets explained at some point maybe? Because the setting just doesn't seem like it could exist organically if you give it a second of thought - some people just have powers that are way too hardcore for them to not be ruling as godkings.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 07:42
|
|
|
Megazver posted:
If red robe ends up being a Zach clone, I'd guess that the above probably has something to do with blood magic. The main reason Zorian was interested in blood magic was for permanent personal augmentations, and one of the other possible uses for blood magic he mentioned was to plunder someone's lifeforce for mana. Stolen lifeforce was stated to be too shaping intensive and inefficient to use for casting without lengthy rituals or just using it to bribe demons, but it wasn't stated to be impossible. And I'd guess that figuring out some way to not be reliant on the original for mana would be one of the highest priorities for a rogue simulacra. Because of the loop Red Robe would have had all the time and retries they'd need to get their serial killer on to practice using stolen lifeforce for normal casting. Edit: Added spoilers, because I was being an inconsiderate idiot. Apologies. Oo Koo fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Jul 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 10:00
|
|
|
I kinda put all that poo poo under a spoiler tag on purpose. Not everyone here has read MoL. Could you...? EDIT: Thank you! And I suppose that could be a thing, yes. It's an interesting idea, but I guess we haven't been told a lot about that type of magic yet. Megazver fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jul 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 10:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:10 |
|
|
Miss Militia can produce a nuke with her power. I forget whether it was part of untold history, weaverdice, or whether it was a hypothetical, but iirc the endbringers getting nuked caused Bad Things.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2017 10:24
|
|