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To show visuals of how play arrives at the picture shown in the book: Qxc6  h3  Bxf3  Qxf3  Qxf3  gxf3, black to move
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Jul 17, 2017 16:51
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| # ? May 24, 2024 18:25 |
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Something some of you may be wondering: Why would Black perform those exact moves? Answer: I'm not entirely certain, but I am fairly confident that, while there's no guarantee white's outlined moves are the best ones, this guy's experience playing on the Black side means that Black's moves are the best given these exact moves by whites. Presumably there are methods to exploit anything else played by Black.
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Jul 17, 2017 17:06
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jon joe posted:Also, I do believe sims fall under the purview of "chess engines", which are verboten. Whelp RIP looking up example games. Also: Great post jon joe but what if they end up Qxd4 like the over aggressive madmen they are? Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 08:35
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Gridlocked posted:Whelp RIP looking up example games. From the current position? We take their Knight, check, now their queen is defenseless. They will probably take our Bishop with their Pawn (because everything they put in the way gets eaten by our Bishop) and we take the Queen with our own.
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Jul 18, 2017 09:49
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:27
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Well. Qxf3?
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Jul 18, 2017 12:34
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Well, time for queenie to come out to play. QXF3.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:45
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My only worry after Qxf3 is their Qxd4. gxf3 takes care of the problem at the cost of our pawn structure and somewhere nice to castle. Be2 is a terrible stop-gap measure that unpins their knight.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:49
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I'm leaning fx3 with the pawn on g2 honestly.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:54
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Queen in d1 to take Bishop in f3, aka Qxf3. To channel my inner Jon Joe instead of my inner Chessty Puller I see us following this up by capturing that knight in c6 with our bishop in b5. Then that pawn in b7 takes our bishop newly in c6. Following that we take the pawn newly in c6 with our queen, checking the king or at least giving us an opening to take the rook with our queen. Looking at the board again this is wildly over optimistic as it does not predict what black will do after we take the Bishop with our Queen. Hopefully the enemy queen will take out our pawn in d4 and then be stuck there as we continually check their king, but they could pull some good blocking moves with that knight in f6 too.
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Jul 18, 2017 12:56
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Not much else to do. Bxf3 loses us our bishop and gxf3 fucks up our pawn line. Qxf3. Now their most probable attack path is to pile on our d4 pawn with their queen and rook after a castle. That makes Bxc6+ a nice move for us if we can gently caress up their pawn structure. Cloud Potato posted:My only worry after Qxf3 is their Qxd4. We take their knight with our bishop, check. They either put their other knight or their queen in the way (so good bye another piece and they have to take with their king, loving up their position) or take our bishop with their pawn. We take their pawn with our queen, forking their rook and king. Queen gets in the middle, we take their rook, another check. We are trading, at the very least, our bishop for a pawn and a rook, a good deal. Gridlocked posted:I'm leaning fx3 with the pawn on g2 honestly. That puts our king right on the frontline after a castle, thoguh. 
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Jul 18, 2017 12:58
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Qxf3 works out extremely well if they end up taking the Qxd4 bait so let's do that.
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Jul 18, 2017 13:04
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Fat Samurai posted:That puts our king right on the frontline after a castle, thoguh. That is a VERY valid point. I am primarily concerned about letting their Queen take control of the center but I will happily bow to the wisdom of getting ours into combat.
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Jul 18, 2017 13:33
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Habituallyred has summed up my thoughts, pretty much. The best we can hope for is their Queen to move, but we can't really expect it. That being said, they stepped too far. Qxf3.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:22
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Gridlocked posted:That is a VERY valid point. I am primarily concerned about letting their Queen take control of the center but I will happily bow to the wisdom of getting ours into combat. They'll need to move it back to block eventually if they do go for the pawn. Meanwhile we'll have all but obliterated their Queen side with our own Queen.
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Jul 18, 2017 14:22
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Gridlocked posted:Whelp RIP looking up example games. At least that's my thinking. A handful of example games are fine. An aggregated 10,000 example games are chess-engine levels of data. I'll gladly skip my way onto the nearest chess database if Covski rules otherwise, however. That said, I think Black made a huge blunder here by capturing our Knight with their Bishop. I played out a couple games against myself, looking for ways Black could potentially go for a checkmate after we capture their bishop with our queen, but I couldn't find any that we couldn't negate in a single move, at a huge cost to Black. In fact, I'm not really sure how Black survives this with anything less than a ruined pawn structure due to our two pieces that will be eyeing c6. Qxf3
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Jul 18, 2017 15:07
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In other news, today we mourn the loss of one's Smerdon's Scandinavian as a tool in our conquering of the chess board. RIP; has no advice for Black making a bad move.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:10
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jon joe posted:That said, I think Black made a huge blunder here by capturing our Knight with their Bishop. I played out a couple games against myself, looking for ways Black could potentially go for a checkmate after we capture their bishop with our queen, but I couldn't find any that we couldn't negate in a single move, at a huge cost to Black. In fact, I'm not really sure how Black survives this with anything less than a ruined pawn structure due to our two pieces that will be eyeing c6. Moving Qb6 so they can use the queen to take our bishop after we take the knight. Otherwise castling queenside (and they want to castle that way to bring that rook into play and threaten our pawn in d4) is very, very dangerous. In fact, if they move their queen to b6 I'd suggest Kc3 to give them time to castle and then Bxc6 so they have to decide between stop threatening our pawn with their queen or ending up with two pawns completely alone.
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Jul 18, 2017 15:43
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Qxf3 At this point, i would bet money that they go Qxd4 next turn, at which point we run roughshod on them.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:35
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Qxf3. Let's give this plan a shot.
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Jul 18, 2017 18:53
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Yep, Qxf3
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Jul 19, 2017 02:47
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And that's ten!
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Jul 19, 2017 04:02
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jon joe posted:In other news, today we mourn the loss of one's Smerdon's Scandinavian as a tool in our conquering of the chess board. RIP; has no advice for Black making a bad move. Ahahah Ok then lets get this Qxf3 going.
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Jul 19, 2017 07:55
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Qxf3 wins the vote!
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Jul 19, 2017 10:26
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 19, 2017 11:13
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I can't see much Black can do except moving their Queen to threaten our pawn, our bishop and defend their Knight. Qb6? And then castle to put their rook on d4?
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Jul 19, 2017 11:39
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This is very dependant on blacks move but: From this CURRENT position we can trade the bishop into the knight, lose it to the pawn on b7 and then remove the pawn with the queen to put their king back into check and see if we can keep them on the reactive side?
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Jul 19, 2017 13:51
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Yeah that's pretty much the plan unless they either put us in check, cover c6 with another piece (probably the queen) or block our queen from reaching c6. Qb6 looks alright for them. They might go Qa5 and put us in check, at which point I think our best counter is Nc3 to block the check and protect our bishop. sebzilla fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 19, 2017 |
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Jul 19, 2017 14:32
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Oh, geez, I didn't even realize that they can check us right now. But even if they do, which is probably their smartest move, there isn't much that they can do that doesn't end with huge losses to their side, my untrained eye sees.
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Jul 19, 2017 14:44
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wrong thread
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Jul 19, 2017 15:52
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Fat Samurai posted:I can't see much Black can do except moving their Queen to threaten our pawn, our bishop and defend their Knight. Qb6? And then castle to put their rook on d4? They could always move Rook to c8. They give up the queen side castle, but at least they don't need to babysit their knight with their queen.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:31
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actually, I take it back. They probably go Q+a5 and for the bishop and the king. Not sure how we get out of that without losing the bishop. edit: oh, nc3 will fix that.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:11
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Oh geez, I didn't see that at all. That doesn't seem to be a bad move at all, Rc8, it's a more even trade if it comes to blows, I think.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:14
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jon joe posted:They could always move Rook to c8. They give up the queen side castle, but at least they don't need to babysit their knight with their queen. Nonsense. They are goons. Herding them into a defensive move is impossible. They are going to be fighting each other each step of the way. We, on the other hand, are a shining example of cooperative thinking, teamwork and the whole being more than the sum of the parts thing.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:47
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Fat Samurai posted:Nonsense. They are goons. Herding them into a defensive move is impossible. They are going to be fighting each other each step of the way. I'm out of theory so my chess IQ has dropped at least a standard deviation. But yes, together we are some kind of swarm intelligence.
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Jul 19, 2017 17:50
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jon joe posted:I'm out of theory so my chess IQ has dropped at least a standard deviation. But yes, together we are some kind of swarm intelligence. drat it, did they make that lovely move just to throw us off book?
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Jul 19, 2017 18:35
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oath2order posted:drat it, did they make that lovely move just to throw us off book? Doubtful, because unless they were reading the same book I was they ran out of theory when they moved c6
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Jul 19, 2017 18:37
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Alternatively, they would need to be dirty cheaters reading ARE THREAD 
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Jul 19, 2017 18:39
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:26
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Well, no need to worry about check for now, I guess. I'm rather uncertain as to what we can do for now. Perhaps now would be a good time to Kingside Castle? 0-0. Unless anyone has a better suggestion.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:29
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