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Dr. Fetus posted:Well, no need to worry about check for now, I guess. I'm rather uncertain as to what we can do for now. Perhaps now would be a good time to Kingside Castle? 0-0. Unless anyone has a better suggestion. After our opponents castle, the d4 pawn will be under triple attack (knight, queen, castle). To prepare for this, I recommend Be3 to help protect it while also pre-protecting our King from check.
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Jul 19, 2017 20:58
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Ok, some random thoughts here: 1) They seem to be going for a castle. The only purpose of advancing the queen is to put their rook behind it for some ooomph on that row (which is usually a very strong position because if you place it on the same row as the enemy king is going to be very difficult to dislodge a piece from there, as the king cannot take it). They are certainly not going to send their queen to e6 (which is the only place on that diagonal where it doesn't die) and they could have moved it forward already if that was their plan. 2) We shouldn't worry about defending the pawn on d4 yet. That pawn is perfectly safe if they are clever and a nice trap if they are not. Once their queen stops protecting c6 (like say, taking our pawn) we can 1. Bxc6 bxc6 (because otherwise they have lost a knight in exchange of a pawn) 2.Qxc6 and then we're one pawn ahead again, but are forking their rook and king (if they haven't castled yet) or checking their king (if they have). We will always have time to c3 if they bring more pieces to bear on d4. 3) Sending the bishop to f4 is a good protection against their moving e5 and making us choose between giving up our pawn or clearing up the d column (which is a bad idea and could lead to a checkmate). Actually, it could also help if we end up checking a castle-ed king with our queen on e6. That's a checkmate right there. 4) The Black Knight is still pinned. If it takes d4 to threaten our queen and bishop we take the queen with our bishop, they take their bishop with whatever and we move our queen, so we end up ahead. We shouldn't count on Black taking d4, but it's nice to have it dangling in front of them. Considering this, I'm thinking either Bf4 (to make sure they have only just enough force threatening d4) or 0-0. We could be boring and safe and play c3 or Kd2 (I'd rather keep that pawn spot open), but this is an LP.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:17
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Then again, our opponents can not easily take that pawn even if we only castle. Consider the following: Capturing with their knight means we take their queen, and they can't take ours because of check. Capturing with their queen means we take their knight with our bishop and, when they retake with their pawn, we attack with our queen for check, starting a check dance to our advantage. So I think I want to castle now. 0-0
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Jul 19, 2017 21:21
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jon joe posted:good post I was writing you that, damnit. Also, you're giving them an extra move. It's our turn on that picture.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:24
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Fat Samurai posted:3) Sending the bishop to f4 is a good protection against their moving e5 and making us choose between giving up our pawn or clearing up the d column (which is a bad idea and could lead to a checkmate). Actually, it could also help if we end up checking a castle-ed king with our queen on e6. That's a checkmate right there. If they e5 we only need to immediately capture with our pawn if we've already castled, threatening their knight.  Fat Samurai posted:I was writing you that, damnit. Even better.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:25
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jon joe posted:If they e5 we only need to immediately capture with our pawn if we've already castled, threatening their knight. I'm worried about e5 after castling. If we take their pawn that's a queen and a rook with nothing between them and row 1, and that can be painful.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:27
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Fat Samurai posted:Yeah, but if they e5 after castling, that's a queen and a rook with no thing between them and row 1, and that can be painful. And we get a move before then, as you just mentioned  Besides, the queen will be first and they can't just move to d1 because we capture with our rook, which is defended by our queen.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:28
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I think that if they were going to take the d4 pawn bait they would have, and giving them another swing at it by castling isn't going to change that much. However, nothing is leaping out at me as a better move for us right now on merit. Castling helps us on defence for sure. Bf4 and Nc3 both are options to throw more pieces into the fray, Bf4 is more offensive whereas Nf3 is more about protecting our Bishop (and a potential d5 to further force the collapse of their Queenside situation?) Still thinking on this one.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:30
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 No threat.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:30
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jon joe posted:which is defended by our queen.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:33
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I have no clue what Bf4 actually does for us. It attacks nothing, not even an important square. It doesn't prevent castling because their king doesn't move through or to that space, and there's nothing important going on at that line at all. e5 by our opponents appears to be, to my eyes, just plain bad.
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Jul 19, 2017 21:34
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jon joe posted:I have no clue what Bf4 actually does for us. It attacks nothing, not even an important square. It doesn't prevent castling because their king doesn't move through or to that space, and there's nothing important going on at that line at all. e5 by our opponents appears to be, to my eyes, just plain bad. jon joe posted:Capturing with their queen means we take their knight with our bishop and, when they retake with their pawn, we attack with our queen for check, starting a check dance to our advantage. It's a checkmate in this case and it gets the bishop out there, but yeah, basically bad reading of the board on my part. Leaning towards 0-0 now, considering c3
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Jul 19, 2017 21:45
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Hm? Bf4 offers a checkmate? Can you show how?
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Jul 19, 2017 21:52
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The situation on you describe on the second quote of my previous post. The only square the king can go in that situation is b8, which a bishop on f4 threatens. It's not going to happen, forget it. Thoughts on c4, everyone? Covers the bishop just in case, is covered by the bishop and further controls the center, but I feel our time is better spent in other areas of the board.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:38
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Fat Samurai posted:but I feel our time is better spent in other areas of the board. Pretty much this.
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Jul 19, 2017 22:39
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What else can we develop now that they've shown their hand?
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Jul 19, 2017 23:00
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This one is going to take some thought, though it does look like castling is the bet move. It's pretty easy to see us getting in a situation where we initial the bishop-knight-pawn exchange and force the king into the corner, pinned by our queen. Also once we castle it's going to be very hard to do anything on our row 1.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:34
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Voting for a kingside castle. Might as well get the big lad a bit more safe while we've got the time.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:11
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Queen to g3 would stop them from castling, but would have a bunch of other problems so... 0-0 Kingside Castle
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Jul 20, 2017 02:16
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0-0 Kingside Castle
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Jul 20, 2017 02:26
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in the interest of expedience, 0-0. Though I'm still open to debate if other people have ideas.
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Jul 20, 2017 02:56
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Voting for 0-0
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Jul 20, 2017 03:00
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Kingside castle is a pretty safe bet.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:31
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Going against the grain and saying Nc3 to get that piece moving. Casting at this point is just ceding initiative.
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Jul 20, 2017 05:57
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Added Space posted:Going against the grain and saying Nc3 to get that piece moving. Casting at this point is just ceding initiative. After castle castle, I think Nc3 is a great move.
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Jul 20, 2017 06:12
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jon joe posted:After castle castle, I think Nc3 is a great move. Hmm, any ideas on what Black could do after our castling to not make that a good move? Aside from opening up an even better move for us by doing something really stupid, which I doubt they'd do. Added Space posted:Going against the grain and saying Nc3 to get that piece moving. Casting at this point is just ceding initiative. I'll admit, I'm rather torn on castling now since yeah, it doesn't do too much for us aside from getting the King to safety, but the Rook still needs at least 2 moves invested in it for it to be ready for active duty. On the other hand, I can't think of much else to do. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 06:27
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Dr. Fetus posted:Hmm, any ideas on what Black could do after our castling to not make that a good move? I think we'll always want to eventually put our knight on c3. Even if we don't do it immediately due to us needing to respond to an opponent's move, I think we'll need to do it eventually. Right now I like castling first though because there's nothing preventing it, it's totally safe and opens up the rook. I disagree that castling is a back-foot move, because it allows us to play front-foot without worrying about our king at all for most if not all the rest of the game. Leaving it out in the open creates a lot more check opportunities for our opponents, I think. Plus it's just plain solid. Castling is not a move we're doing because there's nothing else, it's a move we're doing because it puts our board in a legitimately better position.
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Jul 20, 2017 07:01
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jon joe posted:I think we'll always want to eventually put our knight on c3. Even if we don't do it immediately due to us needing to respond to an opponent's move, I think we'll need to do it eventually. Right now I like castling first though because there's nothing preventing it, it's totally safe and opens up the rook. I disagree that castling is a back-foot move, because it allows us to play front-foot without worrying about our king at all for most if not all the rest of the game. Leaving it out in the open creates a lot more check opportunities for our opponents, I think. Plus it's just plain solid. Castling is not a move we're doing because there's nothing else, it's a move we're doing because it puts our board in a legitimately better position. At this point I'm tempted to leave c column open for our pawn rather than our Knight. There is little chance that they will threaten our bishop with something other than a pawn at this point, and a pawn doesn't care if our knight is covering it. It also leaves the option of c4 open if that's needed, which still allows for Nc3 eventually. For now, yeah, 0-0 Dr. Fetus posted:Hmm, any ideas on what Black could do after our castling to not make that a good move? a6 makes it worse because it forces our bishop to run away or trade. Even if we fall back to Ba4 it can be pushed again with b5 Edit: not bad per se, you are still developing pieces, but weaker. Fat Samurai fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 07:32
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Ok sure let's do the 0-0 thing.
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Jul 20, 2017 08:58
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Is castling right now a loss of tempo?
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Jul 20, 2017 09:04
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It puts the rook into play, which is usually a 2-3 moves affair, and is probably going to be countered by black with their own castle, so not much.
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Jul 20, 2017 11:04
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O-O wins the vote!
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Jul 20, 2017 12:49
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.O-O Black has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 20, 2017 13:13
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Ok soo the question is does black do the same, if yes we can check with bf4!
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Jul 20, 2017 13:15
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Gridlocked posted:Ok soo the question is does black do the same, if yes we can check with bf4! Castling puts the king on c8 and the rook on d8.
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Jul 20, 2017 14:44
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 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 Bg4 4.Bb5+ c6 5.dxc6 Nxc6 6.Nf3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Qd7 8.O-O e6 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Jul 20, 2017 19:05
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Very defensive move by Black, trying to open up for their bishop and possibly preparing to castle king-side. I see no reason why we can't spend a turn to develop further.
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Jul 20, 2017 19:17
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Right now, our opponents have 3 units eyeing d5. A pawn, a knight, and a queen. Meanwhile, we have only our Queen. Our opponents may be attempting some horseplay, which I find totally unacceptable. We should prepare the square for our own horseplay, which is obviously much better. If we move d4 and then probably, on the following turn, Nc3, we'd have achieved equal forces on the square. Even later still, we can look at bringing rooks into the party and finally advancing our d4 pawn to d5 to initiate either trades that we win, or opening the d file to attack the queen. Of course at that point it'd be so far in the future we may need to do thing somewhat differently, but I think it's a solid plan for as long as Black is playing out weak baby moves like this.
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Jul 20, 2017 19:36
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Let's assume we did some random move this turn that did NOT prevent our opponents from moving Nd5 on their turn. In this example, h3 to illustrate a worst-case, but other examples are near equally bad in subtler ways: d5 by opponents. Doesn't look too bad, right? Let's kick that horse off!  c4, Nb4. Away, foul thing!  a3, Nc2. drat, our rook is under attack! Can't let them have that.  Our pawn up! Our queen!!! Worst part is there's no really good place to put her. So yeah, c4 prevents all this silliness. Nc3 also does, but I am compelled to allow both developments eventually.
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Jul 20, 2017 20:15
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Nevermind
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Jul 20, 2017 20:25
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