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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [The Succ Zone] I unblocked you, again, to say this: You don't fucking know me.

«‹›2987 »

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Darkman Fanpage posted:

this is exactly why im sad

well then cheer up cause it sounds like bannon is on his way out as well

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:29

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# ? May 13, 2024 19:54

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Focusing on training still puts the onus on individual workers instead of making companies take on even the tiniest bit of risk or do training themselves.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:30

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

Scent of Worf posted:

well then cheer up cause it sounds like bannon is on his way out as well

Idgaf about spicer but that is legitimately good news

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:31

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

aren't unpaid internships explicitly illegal except in corner cases where you're doing literally no productive work?

I can see it being rampant in private business but it's a little surprising that government officials are publicly advertising unpaid internships

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:31

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

loquacius posted:

HP Hovercraft, my hot take is that if the Thirteenth Amendment specifically lists something as the only legal type of slavery, it is slavery

Another hot take is that if you are so het-up about people saying Hillary Clinton owned slaves that you are willing to invade the suck zone so you can melt down over it without people yelling at you for making non-joke posts in the Trump thread you may want to consider reevaluating your hill-death policy

imagine being allowed to clean up a highway or maintain a government building in exchange for not spending all day in prison and sleeping in your own bed

lol what a human rights violation

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:31

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

well, at least as far as Racial Holy War goes

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:31

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

imagine being allowed to clean up a highway or maintain a government building in exchange for not spending all day in prison and sleeping in your own bed

lol what a human rights violation

"allowed"

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:33

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

*holds gun to ur head*

I'm gonna "allow" you to hand me $500

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:33

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

SKULL.GIF posted:

"allowed"

yep you've typically gotta qualify for those programs

a lotta the time they're even weighted toward white collar offenders

prison labor is gross and terrible but that's not the same thing

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:34

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

Thoguh posted:

Focusing on training still puts the onus on individual workers instead of making companies take on even the tiniest bit of risk or do training themselves.

I mean, the workers in question here are kids, being educated

It is, as described by Ellison, an education initiative, and a long-con play. The short-term fix is the "better wages" part of the slogan.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:35

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

SKULL.GIF posted:

aren't unpaid internships explicitly illegal except in corner cases where you're doing literally no productive work?

I can see it being rampant in private business but it's a little surprising that government officials are publicly advertising unpaid internships

local governments basically rely on unpaid interns for administrative work and such, and all of these are definitely illegal under labor laws

but labor laws are never enforced and the people in charge benefit from them so this will never change

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:36

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

imagine being allowed to serve in the House and greet guests at dinner parties in exchange for not spending all day in the cotton fields and sleeping in your lovely cabin

lol what a human rights violation

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:36

paranoid randroid: Mar 4, 2007

i think the standard for legal unpaid internships is that you cant be engaged in activities that generate revenue, which is sufficiently vague to allow all kinds of sketchy poo poo

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:37

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

imagine being allowed to clean up a highway or maintain a government building in exchange for not spending all day in prison and sleeping in your own bed

lol what a human rights violation

the slavery pedant has logged on

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:37

Zhulik: Nov 14, 2012; The Montreal Star

A kinder, gentler prison labor

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:38

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

indeed i too cannot differentiate between prison labor and voluntary work-release programs

Work-release is when they let you leave prison so you can maintain your old job, dumbass.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:39

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

GalacticAcid posted:

imagine being allowed to serve in the House and greet guests at dinner parties in exchange for not spending all day in the cotton fields and sleeping in your lovely cabin

lol what a human rights violation

funny you should bring up this particular metaphor, because

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

louisiana's "angola" state penitentiary is a "working farm" prison that's built on an old cotton plantation

they require inmates to work the fields, including growing and picking cotton for literally pennies an hour

that's some hosed up modern-day slavery

work-release programs that literally allow inmates to live at home during the workweek and provide a direct path to full-time employment after their time is served is probably not a rehabilitation program that the left wants to attack

he's used it unironically

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:39

Gene Hackman Fan: Dec 27, 2002; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

remember back when i linked that story about that baltimore hotel trying to find out if they used that same, highly-flammable PE cladding used in the grenfell tower disaster?

then i linked that story about the florida hotel with the same, highly-flammible PE cladding used in the grenfell tower disaster actually did catch fire?

remember how i said that there would be more, and it would be worse?

another couple of shoes dropped

AP: US buildings, NFL stadium check panels amid fears of fire

quote:

In promotional brochures, a U.S. company boasted of the "stunning visual effect" its shimmering aluminum panels created in an NFL stadium, an Alaskan high school and a luxury hotel along Baltimore's Inner Harbor that "soars 33 stories into the air."

Those same panels � Reynobond composite material with a polyethylene core � also were used in the Grenfell Tower apartment building in London. British authorities say they're investigating whether the panels helped spread the blaze that ripped across the building's outer walls, killing at least 80 people.

The panels, also called cladding, accentuate a building's appearance and also improve energy efficiency. But they are not recommended for use in buildings above 40 feet because they are combustible. In the wake of last month's fire at the 24-story, 220-foot-high tower in London, Arconic Inc. announced it would no longer make the product available for high-rise buildings.

Determining which buildings might be wrapped in the material in the United States is difficult. City inspectors and building owners might not even know. In some cases, building records have been long discarded and neither the owners, operators, contractors nor architects involved could or would confirm whether the cladding was used.

That makes it virtually impossible to know whether such structures as the Baltimore Marriott Waterfront hotel � identified by Arconic's brochures as wrapped in Reynobond PE � are actually clad in the same material as Grenfell Tower, which was engulfed in flames in less than five minutes.

At a Thursday news conference that followed the publication of The Associated Press' story on the use of the cladding material in the U.S., Cleveland's chief building official confirmed that panels on the city-owned Cleveland Browns' football stadium are "similar if not identical" to those used on the doomed London tower, but said they pose "zero risk to the fans."

Thomas Vanover said the panels were installed differently and the venue's overall cladding includes many materials.

"From these panels and this installation, there's no risk of anything remotely close to the Grenfell tragedy," Vanover said.

The International Building Code adopted by the U.S. requires more stringent fire testing of materials used on the sides of buildings taller than 40 feet. However, states and cities can set their own rules, said Keith Nelson, senior project architect with Intertek, a worldwide fire testing organization.

The National Fire Protection Association conducts fire resistance tests on building materials to determine whether they comply with the international code. Robert Solomon, an engineer with the association, told the AP that the group's records show the U.S.-made Arconic panels never underwent the tests. For that reason, he said, the group considered the products unsafe for use in buildings higher than 40 feet.

Tests conducted by the British government after the Grenfell fire found samples of cladding material used on 75 buildings failed combustibility tests.

Solomon said the use of Reynobond PE on the Baltimore Marriott and Browns stadium in particular should be reviewed because of their height.

On buildings that are "higher than the firefighters' ladders," incombustible material must be used, Arconic advises in a fire-safety pamphlet. It warns that choosing the right product is crucial "in order to avoid the fire to spread to the whole building" and that fire can spread extremely rapidly "especially when it comes to facades and roofs."

No one has declared the U.S. buildings unsafe, nor has the U.S. government initiated any of the widespread testing of aluminum paneling that British authorities ordered after the London disaster.

Arconic declined to give further details about the buildings in the brochure, and hasn't said how many U.S. buildings contain the product.

The company is cooperating with building owners and others involved, such as the Baltimore hotel, spokesman Steven Lipin said. The product is "certified for use in the UK and US" and the company "will continue to be here to answer any questions about its products," Lipin said in a statement to the AP.

He did not indicate whether Arconic is contacting all the contractors, builders and others that used the material.

Baltimore City Housing Authority spokeswoman Tania Baker said the city doesn't keep detailed records of building materials but added that, if used, the material would have been compliant with local fire codes because the Marriott is equipped with sprinklers. Harbor East, a development company that owns the building, referred all inquiries to the Marriott, whose spokesman Jeff Flaherty said results of testing on the hotel's exterior panels could be received as early as this week.

"We can tell you that the hotel passed building inspection at the time it opened in 2001 and that the hotel's fire and life safety systems meet local code requirements," he said.

The Arconic website stated that the Browns stadium used 100,000 square feet of the bright silver aluminum composite material in its exterior.

One option for building owners who are unsure of the product's use would be to remove a section of paneling and have it tested at a lab, said Vickie Lovell, president of InterCode Inc., a consulting firm on building codes and standards.

Building records kept by cities can include construction blueprints, inspection logs and fire safety plans. But local agencies don't require that an applicant seeking a building permit submit a list of materials or specific products. In the case of the Marriott, Baltimore's housing department holds the building's original plans, which don't say what cladding was used.

The architect of record would have known what materials were used during construction. But Peter Fillat, an architect who worked on the 2001 Marriott construction, said he destroyed his records pertaining to the property six years ago because his contract requires him to keep files for only 10 years.

Construction and contracting firms that worked on the Marriott also said they no longer had those records.

For decades, the U.S. has required sprinkler systems to be installed in new high-rise buildings, as well as multiple ways for people to exit in the case of a fire. Grenfell Tower had none of those safeguards.

But fire safety experts caution that indoor sprinklers can't stop a fire that ignites on a building's exterior and spreads across the coating that encases it.

The danger is that "the whole outside of your building could be on fire, yet the internal sprinkler heads may never activate!," Oklahoma fire safety consultant John Valiulis wrote in a 2015 research report on the flammability of exterior walls. He pointed to high-rise fires that began on building exteriors where indoor sprinklers were completely ineffective at stopping flames from racing up the outside walls.

___=

Some of the buildings Arconic lists as using Reynobond PE:

Anchorage, Alaska: South Anchorage High School used 20,000 square feet of Reynobond Aluminum Cladding Material on the exterior of its science classrooms, according to Arconic's website. Anchorage Public Schools Superintendent Deena Bishop confirmed to the AP that the material was used at the high school. "We are looking at options, studying it more, understanding what the risks are," Bishop said, adding that the cladding was installed according to code. "Presently, we're finding that the use of it on single-story buildings is appropriate according to the manufacturer."

Dallas: Arconic's website says Reynobond PE was used in Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport's 2-million-square-foot Terminal D facility, which opened in 2005. Reynobond PE formed the walls of the terminal's shopping and dining areas, the company's project report states. The panels were installed in parts of the interior and exterior of the terminal, airport spokesman Casey Norton said. "We've been aware that we have these panels for a long time and it's part of the equation that we use every time we inspect the airport for fire safety," he said.

Detroit: Arconic's website reported 26,000 feet of the paneling was used in six Early Childhood Development Centers for the Detroit Public School System. Detroit Fire Marshal Gregory Turner said no specific buildings had been identified using the material applied to Grenfell Tower but that the city was continuing to investigate.

Denver: The top two floors of 1899 Wynkoop, a nine-story office and retail building in downtown Denver's historic warehouse district, were clad with the product to lighten its appearance and keep it from dominating the surrounding warehouses, Arconic advertises in promotional materials. About 13,000 square feet of Reynobond PE was used, the company said. Officials in Denver's community planning and development office have been looking into the matter, but haven't been able to locate the original building plans. "Our expectation is that it was purged as part of our normal records retention process," spokeswoman Andrea Burns said in an email.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:40

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Ugh I am assailed with existential dread and hopelessness for the future

thats why you should learn guilty gear

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:41

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

I'd make a joke here about how the Browns' stadium burning down could only improve the team's quality of play but I'm sure about twenty people in TFF have made it already

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:42

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Work-release is when they let you leave prison so you can maintain your old job, dumbass.

depends on the state

california allows inmates to leave and bank various program hours (AA and whatnot) as time served. they've gone a step further and allowed wealthy inmates to just straightup avoid prison in exchange for boutique local jails (nights) to keep their jobs, which has been making the news lately

looks like arkansas work-release includes setting up minimum wage jobs for inmates close to release as a societal reintegration step of the prison rehabilitative (lol) process to allow "family support" thru the pay, though they don't pay anything for inmate/prison jobs so that seems to kinda miss the point there

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:44

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

paranoid randroid posted:

i think the standard for legal unpaid internships is that you cant be engaged in activities that generate revenue, which is sufficiently vague to allow all kinds of sketchy poo poo

the rules are actually fairly rigorous which is why I'm certain that every unpaid internship is completely illegal. particularly these:

quote:

The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment.

The experience is for the benefit of the intern.

The intern does not displace regular employees but works under close supervision of existing staff.

The employer providing the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.

a friend of mine has worked three separate unpaid internships for the local city council and definitely did not meet these requirements. it's just nobody cares

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:45

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Ugh I am assailed with existential dread and hopelessness for the future

You just gotta remember one thing and you'll be fine.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:45

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

logikv9 posted:

it's cheap enough that we've had "donate some $$$ to make PPP ask this question" threads

haha immediately post Igrab-Cuntra people were talking about goon project hiring PPP to check out Texas

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:47

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

depends on the state

california allows inmates to leave and bank various program hours (AA and whatnot) as time served. they've gone a step further and allowed wealthy inmates to just straightup avoid prison in exchange for boutique local jails, which has been making the news lately

looks like arkansas work-release includes setting up minimum wage jobs for inmates close to release as a societal reintegration step of the prison rehabilitative (lol) process to allow "family support" thru the pay, though they don't pay anything for inmate/prison jobs so that seems to kinda miss the point there

yeah the point here is that if you pay someone for their labor by, say, counting it as part of their prison sentence rather than by giving them money, it's slavery

Coal-mining jobs that paid in scrip were also voluntary, and yet there's a pretty good reason they don't exist anymore (because people who aren't in prison count as Real People and it's not right to gently caress them over like that)

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:48

tower time: Jul 30, 2008

The trump thread is full of sickos. They come into the suck zone, they defend slavery. Make Tight Booty Shorts idiot king of the trump thread. He has the forums cancer, he knows how these sickos think. Its a job i'd wish on no man, but with the cancer... he really has nothing to lose.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:50

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

loquacius posted:

I'd make a joke here about how the Browns' stadium burning down could only improve the team's quality of play but I'm sure about twenty people in TFF have made it already

the factory of sadness burned down?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:52

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

depends on the state

california allows inmates to leave and bank various program hours (AA and whatnot) as time served. they've gone a step further and allowed wealthy inmates to just straightup avoid prison in exchange for boutique local jails (nights) to keep their jobs, which has been making the news lately

looks like arkansas work-release includes setting up minimum wage jobs for inmates close to release as a societal reintegration step of the prison rehabilitative (lol) process to allow "family support" thru the pay, though they don't pay anything for inmate/prison jobs so that seems to kinda miss the point there

The point is that you shouldn't try to act smug when you don't even know what you're talking about. St. Louis isn't even in Arkansas.

Besides, a workhouse without airconditioning wouldn't qualify as a "boutique" jail by any measure. Just gently caress off already.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:53

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

Raskolnikov38 posted:

the factory of sadness burned down?

not yet

give it time though

honestly Browns ownership should probably just do it for the insurance money

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The point is that you shouldn't try to act smug when you don't even know what you're talking about. St. Louis isn't even in Arkansas.

Besides, a workhouse without airconditioning wouldn't qualify as a "boutique" jail by any measure. Just gently caress off already.

He's not talking about that actual authentic preexisting Suck Zone topic, he's talking about known slaveholder Hillary Clinton

always assume primary salt until proven otherwise

# ? Jul 21, 2017 19:56

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

the bitcoin of weed posted:

the rules are actually fairly rigorous which is why I'm certain that every unpaid internship is completely illegal. particularly these:

a friend of mine has worked three separate unpaid internships for the local city council and definitely did not meet these requirements. it's just nobody cares

wow, employers flout the law and get away with it because the law effectively doesn't apply to the powerful, who knew that was a thing

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:00

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

loquacius posted:

He's not talking about that actual authentic preexisting Suck Zone topic, he's talking about known slaveholder Hillary Clinton

always assume primary salt until proven otherwise

Well he follows it up eventually by saying "prison labor is gross and terrible but it's not the same thing" which is broad enough to also apply to a workhouse. This is a deeper issue than Mistress Hillary.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:03

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Well he follows it up eventually by saying "prison labor is gross and terrible but it's not the same thing" which is broad enough to also apply to a workhouse. This is a deeper issue than Mistress Hillary.

:agreed:

When this came up in the Trump thread before, the hillarymen seemed to be under the impression I didn't want to reform the prison system and kept saying stuff like "the prison system ALSO does all of these MUCH WORSE things, checkmate :smug:

:smug:

"

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:05

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

loquacius posted:

yeah the point here is that if you pay someone for their labor by, say, counting it as part of their prison sentence rather than by giving them money, it's slavery

i mean yeah "gaining real-world work experience and ethic" thru landscaping work and trash pickup is clearly bullshit. but the point is that it's rehabilitative, gets them outta the prison and back into society. and a lot of the job-based programs do pay a wage anyway, though it could always be better since they like to classify it below minimum wage

inmate outreach groups typically support work-release and decry prison labor, since even when the latter's paid it'll be something paltry like $20/month after fees and is typically compulsory (like in angola prison) which is super hosed up

but calling both slavery just makes it sound like your only exposure to it is through movies

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:07

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Well he follows it up eventually by saying "prison labor is gross and terrible but it's not the same thing" which is broad enough to also apply to a workhouse. This is a deeper issue than Mistress Hillary.

well yeah wasn't the op makin a callback?

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:10

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Domestic servitude in the governor's mansion isn't being "let back into society" by any measure.

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:12

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Shear Modulus posted:

wow, employers flout the law and get away with it because the law effectively doesn't apply to the powerful, who knew that was a thing

yeah it owns, love that free labor

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:13

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

i mean yeah "gaining real-world work experience and ethic" thru landscaping work and trash pickup is clearly bullshit. but the point is that it's rehabilitative, gets them outta the prison and back into society. and a lot of the job-based programs do pay a wage anyway, though it could always be better since they like to classify it below minimum wage

inmate outreach groups typically support work-release and decry prison labor, since even when the latter's paid it'll be something paltry like $20/month after fees and is typically compulsory (like in angola prison) which is super hosed up

but calling both slavery just makes it sound like your only exposure to it is through movies

I'm about to blow your mind yet again

what if both of these methods of exploiting convicts for free or cheap-as-free labor are bad and should be discontinued because they are effectively slavery

AND... what if I don't actually care whether that sounds overdramatic or not

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:14

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Oh God I just thought maybe Zuck is our best chance because he talks about UBI at all and the bad Dems will assume he's pro business

I must be having some sort nervous breakdown

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:15

Squizzle: Apr 24, 2008

would it blow yr mind if i

*lunges forward and starts suckin yr minds dick*

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:16

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 13, 2024 19:54

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

loquacius posted:

When this came up in the Trump thread before, the hillarymen seemed to be under the impression I didn't want to reform the prison system and kept saying stuff like "the prison system ALSO does all of these MUCH WORSE things, checkmate "

We can only do one thing at a time also there is too many things we can't do anything

# ? Jul 21, 2017 20:17

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [The Succ Zone] I unblocked you, again, to say this: You don't fucking know me.

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