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blugu64 posted:It's a conspiracy y'all Is the conspiracy that GM is bad at managing brands or?
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Jul 21, 2017 02:29
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KakerMix posted:Is the conspiracy that GM is bad at managing brands or? I am still butt hurt about pontiac and don't get my father in law started on oldsmobile. Also WTF Saturn was a strong brand and they just murdered it. Actually relaunching Saturn as the Volt and electric cars probably would have been better. Well except for all the CVT Saturns they sold that broke every 15k miles that they bankruptcied all the warranty claims away. Elephanthead fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 02:32
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https://www.inverse.com/article/34212-tesla-model-3-factory-state-governors-elon-musk Elon Musk has been meeting with governors of various states, presumably trying to see which one would give him the biggest tax break to set up the Model Y factory there: quote:CNBC reported this week that “western states, including California, Texas, Nevada, New Mexico and Arizona, are likely to make bids to win a Tesla Model Y crossover SUV plant planned for 2019.” Now that could get interesting. If you've been following Tesla, you should know that they've spent years lobbying states to relax laws prohibiting direct manufacturer-to-customer car sales (originally claimed to be all about consumer protection, but in reality just a matter of getting sucked off by car dealer lobbyists). Texas has thus far stubbornly refused. How likely do you suppose it is that this would change anything there?
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Jul 21, 2017 03:12
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The Sicilian posted:Making comments that amount to the Bolt's interior being better than any Tesla interior is A. an opinion & B. somewhat of a provocative one he's treating as objectively right. It’s not really though - Tesla’s in general are known for poor interiors.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:08
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The Sicilian posted:the Bolt is not a compelling offering. I donno, if I was buying a 200+ mile EV from an American company, I'd at least want to be sure they'd be in business until all the warranties expired.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:22
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Cockmaster posted:Now that could get interesting. If you've been following Tesla, you should know that they've spent years lobbying states to relax laws prohibiting direct manufacturer-to-customer car sales (originally claimed to be all about consumer protection, but in reality just a matter of getting sucked off by car dealer lobbyists). Texas has thus far stubbornly refused. How likely do you suppose it is that this would change anything there? “We don’t negotiate with terrorists.” 
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Jul 21, 2017 04:32
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The Sicilian posted:That's my point, there's a possibility GM sent him a ringer that was specially looked after from the factory line to press evaluation. ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Jul 21, 2017 04:47
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blugu64 posted:I donno, if I was buying a 200+ mile EV from an American company, I'd at least want to be sure they'd be in business until all the warranties expired. Elephanthead posted:
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Jul 21, 2017 05:02
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The Sicilian posted:That's my point, there's a possibility GM sent him a ringer that was specially looked after from the factory line to press evaluation. What in the everliving gently caress are you rambling about?
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Jul 21, 2017 06:07
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He's trying to out do Michael Scott for "poster on SA who is most wrong about cars".
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Jul 21, 2017 07:12
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dissss posted:It’s not really though - Tesla’s in general are known for poor interiors. Tesla tries to be a German statuswagen, fails on build quality and not having things quite throughgethinken. Bolt tries to be a Japanese econobox with a super glamor flashy lights package, succeeds.
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Jul 21, 2017 07:54
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Jago posted:What's the deal with this one? Does it apply to only a purchase, not a lease? Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:36
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atothesquiz posted:Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily. Coming from a volt owner, range drops quite a bit, i would knock a 1/3 off. Even more if it gets colder, though you can help that by remote starting while plugged in.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:48
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atothesquiz posted:Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily. I had a gen one leaf and it sucked. It is super heavy, has low traction tires, and you can't turn off the traction control to spin them. Ice plus slight hill = you ain't movin.
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Jul 21, 2017 14:50
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Elephanthead posted:I had a gen one leaf and it sucked. It is super heavy, has low traction tires, and you can't turn off the traction control to spin them. We've always put snow tires on any car we're driving in the winter and I dont think that would change with the Leaf. Anyone have any experience with both sets? Stock versus Snows?
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Jul 21, 2017 14:54
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atothesquiz posted:Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily. Leasing might be worth it in this situation. I sell Kia's in Ny and right now we can get down to about $150/mo with nothing but 1st payment and Dmv up front ok the base Soul EV. There are somewhere around $19k in total rebates on a lease between the state, federal and mfg rebates. You also have the added bonus of not having to deal with waiting for the federal tax credit to go through as the bank is the entity that claims that on a lease.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:14
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I'd still lease a pure EV just because the range is such that you can be in a fairly low mileage lease and the rate of change for tech is still ridiculous compared to ICE so you just let the OEM take the hit on depreciation.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:16
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Also, at least when gas prices are a bit higher, you can get to the point where $lease is similar to $gas in monthly costs, and it's not like gasoline has any value to you after you've burned it.
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Jul 21, 2017 15:58
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Ola posted:Tesla tries to be a German statuswagen, fails on build quality and not having things quite throughgethinken. Bolt tries to be a Japanese econobox with a super glamor flashy lights package, succeeds. This is what I mean, apples to oranges. But no, AI has spoken. The Bolt objectively has a better interior than any Tesla ever. Ya'll are just mad Elon is Bob Lutz with twitter fingers. If we had a news article for every single retarded thing Bob said we'd have a mega thread.
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Jul 21, 2017 16:56
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atothesquiz posted:Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily. ND winter will drop my range to around 40-50 miles between heat and battery capacity loss from temps near -25f. I have had Blizzaks on since the second day I've had the car. The battery hasn't physically lost any capacity though, still 100 miles in summer when it is at full charge. No problems with grip and eco/b mode is very nice for the slippery times.
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Jul 21, 2017 18:02
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No one lost their new car warranties because of GM/Chrysler's bankruptcy. That was explicitly part of the bailout. Hell for a while prior to the BK Chrysler was throwing in lifetime powertrain warranties on all their products(except Viper) in an effort to get any kind of cashflow at all, future be damned (or they knew the govt would bail them out). Some court cases that they lost prior to 2008 did get bankrupted away though, e.g. the 60* V6 lower intake manifold leak lawsuit.
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 19:50
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Internet Explorer posted:What in the everliving gently caress are you rambling about? Mental illness is funny when it has a theme.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:56
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atothesquiz posted:Didn't look into leasing. I think we're leaning towards buying the leaf. For those who have them where it snows, how is it in the winter (with and without snow tires)? How's the range affected with consistent temps around ~25F daily. Eco tires are horrible in snow of course but with snow tires it's just as good as any other car. My 2013 lets me turn off the TCS and spin the tires as much as I please, though I've found the TCS is pretty decent. It will cut power and change to neutral if you stand on the pedal and spin the tires up to the speed limiter of 94mph and hold it there. The ABS I don't like but I haven't tried pulling the fuse yet. The car has crazy torque for a FWD econobox, but if you switch to ECO mode the throttle dampens down a lot and that helps. It's fuckin 100F out right now and we're talking about snow lol.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:15
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The Sicilian posted:This is what I mean, apples to oranges. You're being very hostile in a thread about electric vehicles.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:38
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Throatwarbler posted:No one lost their new car warranties because of GM/Chrysler's bankruptcy. That was explicitly part of the bailout. Hell for a while prior to the BK Chrysler was throwing in lifetime powertrain warranties on all their products(except Viper) in an effort to get any kind of cashflow at all, future be damned (or they knew the govt would bail them out). Some court cases that they lost prior to 2008 did get bankrupted away though, e.g. the 60* V6 lower intake manifold leak lawsuit. I guess the class action on the transmissions are a 15k mile wear item was tossed, well the settlement was tossed GM didn't pay.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:45
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With studded tires I've been through two slushy, icy Norwegian winters with a leaf only ever breaking traction when I want to. Range is lower, also due to higher rolling resistance on snow, but well within the ranges you talked about. The ability to warm the cabin with a timer or remotely from an app is wonderful.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:48
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Renting a Kia Soul EV for the weekend. Initial impressions: Small luggage space for a FWD EV, perhaps because it's also an ICE. SLOW! EVs are supposed to have some pep off the line, even the Leaf has a bit of that. Definitely get that golf cart feeling when you're flooring it on the on-ramp and not really going anywhere - even with eco mode off. Otherwise it's quite good. Comfy seats with fan venting, very nice.
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Jul 21, 2017 20:58
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Ola posted:Renting a Kia Soul EV for the weekend. Initial impressions: Small luggage space for a FWD EV, perhaps because it's also an ICE. SLOW! EVs are supposed to have some pep off the line, even the Leaf has a bit of that. Definitely get that golf cart feeling when you're flooring it on the on-ramp and not really going anywhere - even with eco mode off. Otherwise it's quite good. Comfy seats with fan venting, very nice. Keep in mind that all of the EVs based off of ICE cars are going to be compromised in some way vs. a dedicated EV. They are on platforms and within body work that was not designed around an EV with a fuckton of batteries. Take a look at the Focus EV trunk, for instance. Hell, my Cmax Energi has a smaller trunk than my Fiat 500 ICE.
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Jul 21, 2017 21:34
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eyebeem posted:Keep in mind that all of the EVs based off of ICE cars are going to be compromised in some way vs. a dedicated EV. They are on platforms and within body work that was not designed around an EV with a fuckton of batteries. Take a look at the Focus EV trunk, for instance. Absolutely right, although it doesn't look like it's intruding that much into the trunk space, apart from that weird bridge thing. e: opps pasted wrong link 
Ola fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 21:44
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The Sicilian posted:That's my point, there's a possibility GM sent him a ringer that was specially looked after from the factory line to press evaluation. quote:Making comments that amount to the Bolt's interior being better than any Tesla interior is A. an opinion & B. somewhat of a provocative one he's treating as objectively right. Like, you're just objectively wrong.   Early model S has infamously poor interiors, the latest versions are roughly on par with entry level luxuries at best. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 02:41
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I'm just going to assume they'll use a less reflective screen in production version because man that looks bad. Also 'piano black' plastics are the bane of my existence - who thought such an easily damaged fingerprint magnet had any place in a car interior.
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Jul 22, 2017 04:07
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Ola posted:Absolutely right, although it doesn't look like it's intruding that much into the trunk space, apart from that weird bridge thing. Soul EV has exactly the same cargo space as a gas Soul. It's just the way the car is, but keep in mind it's a very short vehicle (only 163") that dedicates most of its interior space to the passengers. With the rear seats folded you get nearly 60 cubic feet of cargo space. Overall it's a very useable size for a small platform car.
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Jul 22, 2017 06:13
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Gamesguy posted:Are you for real? The comparison was the bolt to ANY Tesla. Thanks for using a Model 3 interior spy shot of a preproduction model to illustrate your point.
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Jul 22, 2017 09:40
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That photo was taken about a month ago so I guess they've definitely changed the entire interior by now
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Jul 22, 2017 10:10
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Sagebrush posted:That photo was taken about a month ago so I guess they've definitely changed the entire interior by now There is actually a more recent pic  As you can see, they have removed the iced tea from the cupholder. Not much of an improvement if you ask me.
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Jul 22, 2017 10:19
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Lol if you think that a promotional shot to a spy shot is comparable you are on drugs. And the comment made was ANY tesla. Please go ahead posting spy shots for an unreleased model tho.
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Jul 22, 2017 14:56
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The Sicilian posted:Please go ahead posting spy shots for an unreleased model tho. I thought Elon took delivery a week or so ago..hummm
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Jul 22, 2017 15:07
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The Sicilian posted:And the comment made was ANY tesla. Please go ahead posting spy shots for an unreleased model tho.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:46
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roomforthetuna posted:Why not post your picture of a Tesla interior that's better, and end the argument? Because it is an entirely subjective thing, we all have different opinions. Sorry for being salty at Ars guy for making blanket statements comparing apples to oranges. In my opinion EVERY Tesla interior is better than the Bolt, I don't care for its interior styling and it comes across as childish and full of soft touch plastics. A local dealer has a Fisker Karma for sale for peanuts, going for a test drive today. Not arguing about interiors anymore. And lol at people calling me a conspiracy theorist for saying GM gives reviewers better put together cars, there's a reason Consumer Reports started buying them cold at the dealer and it aint because it's fun.
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Jul 22, 2017 15:54
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The Sicilian posted:In my opinion EVERY Tesla interior is better than the Bolt, I don't care for its interior styling and it comes across as childish and full of soft touch plastics.
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Jul 22, 2017 16:07
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