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it's rationals ragging on "rationals"
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Jul 21, 2017 22:33
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's rationals ragging on "rationals" I feel that is a very charitable descriptor of me, personally. I'm definitely one of those p zombies that arrives at a convincing semblance of rationality by irrational processes.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:40
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Cream posted:Is there a debate or a discussion going in here? Let me know when it happens. What would you like to debate and/or discuss? Which of the shitlord hills is the one you want to die on?
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Jul 21, 2017 22:43
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OwlFancier posted:I feel that is a very charitable descriptor of me, personally. I'm definitely one of those p zombies that arrives at a convincing semblance of rationality by irrational processes.
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Jul 21, 2017 22:53
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's rationals ragging on "rationals" If nothing else, mock threads like this show exactly how dangerous it can be to turn "rational" into an identity.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:01
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I personally find it perfectly rational and skeptical to hate others because of their religion instead of mine.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:13
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What is it about this thread that attracts out and out dopes? There's plenty of threads thay are way more lefty than this so it's not just politics.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:37
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Lightning Lord posted:What is it about this thread that attracts out and out dopes? There's plenty of threads thay are way more lefty than this so it's not just politics. We're specifically targeting their heroes and the people they get their views from.
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Jul 21, 2017 23:50
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Watching Sargon again (lol) he brings up this picture that I've seen several times before: The source for this picture isn't in his notes, but we can see that it has a copyright at the top for ellenfishbein. Doing a search for Ellen Fishbein brings up this reddit post that links to a dead website with the copyright's name. Because I'm a loving nerd who likes when numbers support arguments, I went and did some digging. The 14% more time at work comes from the BLS and is not inaccurate - however, when only accounting for full-time jobs, men work only 7% longer than women. In the same report, we also find out that men have 15% more leisure time despite their longer hours. One explanation for the work hours is that men tend to overestimate and women underestimate. The Washington Post has a good article on this. I have no clue how the death stat is involved in the pay gap. Maybe corpses are paid more? I think the picture is trying to imply that men work more dangerous jobs, but that still doesn't explain the wage gap as I imagine most jobs with high rates of occupational fatalities are not well paying. I couldn't find a list of jobs sorted by pay and death rate, so feel free to correct me. The college pie graphs are misleading. While petroleum engineering does pay well, it's in part because it's a there's a low supply of experts (and declining still). At Texas Tech, less than 1% of undergrads are interested in majoring in petroleum engineering. If the point is to show that women mostly go into lower-paying majors, it should instead list the most popular majors by gender and average earnings. The most popular major for both men and women for example is Business, but the second most common major for women is Health Professions and for men it's Engineering. The final claim, that a very specific range of women outearn men, has a great writeup on politifact. To quote, "The statement tracks back to a credible analysis of 2008 Census Bureau data that looks at median incomes in metropolitan areas." If we look at another recent BLS report, (page 3), we see that full-time men out earn full-time women in the 16-24 and 25-34 age category. On page 84, we see that full-time childless men out earn full-time childless women. While this does not list earnings in the very specific 22-30, childless, and metropolitan area range, it does show that women generally earn a significant amount less than men. So for intellectual debate the picture sucks. It in no way disproves the gender gap and the straws it grasps at are easily explained. Obviously the wage gap is nuanced, and to learn more about it people should read things with actual sources instead of listening to an idiot on Youtube.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:18
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The worst submarine posted:Watching Sargon again (lol) he brings up this picture that I've seen several times before: Sargon being intellectually lazy and dishonest? The shock of it.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:27
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Dreylad posted:once again i apologize for the fact that canada seems to have produced a disproportionate amount of race realists and stefan molyneux That's on english Canada! We french canadians have our own kind of terrible people.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:35
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It's also very disingenuous to say 'Men choose higher paying jobs, women choose to stay home, and that explains the gap!' and assume that's the end of the conversation. Even if it were the case (it isn't - the gap tends to remain in most analysis even when controlling for a wide range of variables), it only leads to more questions. Like, 'why do predominantly male occupations tend to be better paid?', or 'Why do women choose to stay home and look after children more often?' and all kinds of cultural inquiries. Eventually, they'll have to concede cultural influences, which ought to be fixed, or they'll be forced to argue men are simply more competent and valuable than women. Of course, all this is assuming an interest in an intellectually honest debate.
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Jul 22, 2017 00:38
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JVNO posted:It's also very disingenuous to say 'Men choose higher paying jobs, women choose to stay home, and that explains the gap!' and assume that's the end of the conversation. Even if it were the case (it isn't - the gap tends to remain in most analysis even when controlling for a wide range of variables), it only leads to more questions. Like, 'why do predominantly male occupations tend to be better paid?', or 'Why do women choose to stay home and look after children more often?' and all kinds of cultural inquiries. Eventually, they'll have to concede cultural influences, which ought to be fixed, or they'll be forced to argue men are simply more competent and valuable than women. Yeah, Destiny kept bringing it up and Sargon just kept babbling on about how he agrees that society pushes women in certain career directions but also that it's not relevant or whatever. And that's another incredibly annoying thing about him. When he's called out on poo poo like that, he appears to agree with the point the person he's speaking to is making, but somehow continues to simultaneously disagree as well.
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Jul 22, 2017 01:13
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MonsieurChoc posted:That's on english Canada! We french canadians have our own kind of terrible people. quebec ethnonationalists are weird as heck
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Jul 22, 2017 01:55
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So apparently Pewdiepie's now currently good friends with Alex Jones, Lauren Southern, and that Keemstar shithead as well. If there was any doubt before...
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Jul 22, 2017 02:32
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Dreylad posted:quebec ethnonationalists are weird as heck yeah, we've been dealing with "rationals" aka "le vrai monde" on our radio for years now! We we're cool before youtubers ever were a thing
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Jul 22, 2017 02:47
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felat posted:yeah, we've been dealing with "rationals" aka "le vrai monde" on our radio for years now! We we're cool before youtubers ever were a thing yeah I wonder if that contributes to canada's spawning a whole bunch of these white nationalist people, we've had quasi-ethnonationalist struggles throughout our history that run along religious and linguistic lines. And our reservation system is what white ethnonationalists point to as a good example of ethnic enclaves within the scope of their racially organized nationalist project.
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Jul 22, 2017 02:53
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Well the Canadian general population has no appetite for these people so they have to run to the States. They're also basically seen like old school "escapees of socialist countries" by American right wingers
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Jul 22, 2017 03:07
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I wouldn't say there's no appetite in Canada for poo poo-heads like Molyneux. Hell, we have sitting senators that consider the Residential School's Program 'a good thing', and we handed Stephen Harper a decade of power.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:23
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JVNO posted:I wouldn't say there's no appetite in Canada for poo poo-heads like Molyneux. Hell, we have sitting senators that consider the Residential School's Program 'a good thing', and we handed Stephen Harper a decade of power. My point isn't that there's none of this shittery in Canuckistan, more that it isn't nearly as mainstream. Yeah, there's a taste for normie conservatism for sure among some regular people. However, senators aren't elected, so they can think and say what they want pretty much. Also, Harper is a cuck. Like if you look up "cuckservative" in the alt-right dictionary (Encyclopedia Dramatica?) there'd be a picture of him. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 03:28
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JVNO posted:I wouldn't say there's no appetite in Canada for poo poo-heads like Molyneux. Hell, we have sitting senators that consider the Residential School's Program 'a good thing', and we handed Stephen Harper a decade of power. Yeah, Canadian right-wing poo poo is less in-your-face "minorities are just inferior" and more "well, I just don't know..." centrism that allows right-wing politicians to pull their poo poo (like Harper).
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Jul 22, 2017 03:49
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Mr Interweb posted:So apparently Pewdiepie's now currently good friends with Alex Jones, Lauren Southern, and that Keemstar shithead as well. I'm not familiar with this "Keemstar" person and looking at his youtube channel, it looks like more of a "internet drama news" channel? I mean, "youtube drama" is a mad, mad field of internet I want to avoid, sure, but is there more to him than just that?
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Jul 22, 2017 04:58
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toanoradian posted:I'm not familiar with this "Keemstar" person and looking at his youtube channel, it looks like more of a "internet drama news" channel? I mean, "youtube drama" is a mad, mad field of internet I want to avoid, sure, but is there more to him than just that? He harasses other youtubers AFAIK. He's youtube National Enquirer with all that entails
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Jul 22, 2017 05:05
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JVNO posted:It's also very disingenuous to say 'Men choose higher paying jobs, women choose to stay home, and that explains the gap!' and assume that's the end of the conversation. Even if it were the case (it isn't - the gap tends to remain in most analysis even when controlling for a wide range of variables), it only leads to more questions. Like, 'why do predominantly male occupations tend to be better paid?', or 'Why do women choose to stay home and look after children more often?' and all kinds of cultural inquiries. Eventually, they'll have to concede cultural influences, which ought to be fixed, or they'll be forced to argue men are simply more competent and valuable than women. This. I have a guy on Facebook that does essentially this kind of reasoning. I once asked "OK then: Why is that the end of the conversation for you?" because there are only a few places to go from here: either women are "too stupid, man" to choose the jobs that (objectively remember. Women have access to the same information men do!) pay more, or it's  . His response was a lot of dodging hem-hawing in much the same way Carl does. I often tell him he is less interested in being correct (in the context of having scientifically informed opinions) and more interested in being "right" (winning the argument at hand, whatever that may take).
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Jul 22, 2017 05:34
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mojo1701a posted:Yeah, Canadian right-wing poo poo is less in-your-face "minorities are just inferior" and more "well, I just don't know..." centrism that allows right-wing politicians to pull their poo poo (like Harper). idk. alot of the alt right dudes that come to the US alot tend to be canadian.
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Jul 22, 2017 06:58
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Dapper_Swindler posted:idk. alot of the alt right dudes that come to the US alot tend to be canadian. Because they face a crappier market in Canada and the wingnut welfare isn't as good
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Jul 22, 2017 07:04
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Dapper_Swindler posted:idk. alot of the alt right dudes that come to the US alot tend to be canadian.
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Jul 22, 2017 07:30
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JVNO posted:It's also very disingenuous to say 'Men choose higher paying jobs, women choose to stay home, and that explains the gap!' and assume that's the end of the conversation. Even if it were the case (it isn't - the gap tends to remain in most analysis even when controlling for a wide range of variables), it only leads to more questions. Like, 'why do predominantly male occupations tend to be better paid?', or 'Why do women choose to stay home and look after children more often?' and all kinds of cultural inquiries. Eventually, they'll have to concede cultural influences, which ought to be fixed, or they'll be forced to argue men are simply more competent and valuable than women. Uh, clearly women are born with a gene that causes them to make sub-optimal career decisions. This general topic is a good example of how, despite priding themselves on being ~rational~ people who form their opinions based upon data/research, they're really super lovely at actually understanding and interpreting research at any level of complexity beyond "doing a google search for 'statistics that prove the wage gap doesn't exist'". Fangthane posted:This. I have a guy on Facebook that does essentially this kind of reasoning. I once asked "OK then: Why is that the end of the conversation for you?" because there are only a few places to go from here: either women are "too stupid, man" to choose the jobs that (objectively remember. Women have access to the same information men do!) pay more, or it's Yes; to them being "rational" is just a matter of painting over their default opinions and gut feelings with some sort of science-y explanation that lets them feel they're objectively correct. If you explain why their understanding is flawed, they just interpret it as a silly SJW flailing around because they realize they're wrong. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 08:18
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 "...and Sargon Vidcon. Collect your response videos and video footage here."
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Jul 22, 2017 09:00
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toanoradian posted:I'm not familiar with this "Keemstar" person and looking at his youtube channel, it looks like more of a "internet drama news" channel? I mean, "youtube drama" is a mad, mad field of internet I want to avoid, sure, but is there more to him than just that? He bullies people for money essentially.
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Jul 22, 2017 09:02
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Apparently not. My major is history and my original minor was library science( I hated it. A lot) but dhs is great. The new teacher is liberal boarding on socialist and talks about his time in dea and federal prosecution. Then he talks about how trump and the GOP should be all shot for treason. Hello fellow history Goon! I too majored in history (mainly 18th Cen. British) but also did a bunch of science and computer stuff so found work elsewhere. Given the state of history departments today (downsizing), you'll probably find work in some related field but not doing history itself. Side question: did your prof ever talk about the DHS being penetrated by white supremacists? I know regular police and the FBI both have their fair share. DHS also seems like a great target for people trying to have an influence over internal security.
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Jul 22, 2017 13:55
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Lightning Lord posted:Because they face a crappier market in Canada and the wingnut welfare isn't as good thats what i kinda ment. Pembroke Fuse posted:Hello fellow history Goon! I too majored in history (mainly 18th Cen. British) but also did a bunch of science and computer stuff so found work elsewhere. Given the state of history departments today (downsizing), you'll probably find work in some related field but not doing history itself. i am trying for either IC work or a museum/national park. currently i volunteer at a local car museum which is cool but its not my thing(most of the cars are from local companies before ford and imploaded either because of ford or after ww1 or because they had no idea how to market. on that. apperently its alot less in the federal law enforcement(least now a days). i mean yeah there are conservatives, but they have a much greater vetting against that poo poo then police departments. the biggest issue is people like gorka falling upwards because GOP poo poo fucks like what they hear from them and think they should be advisers.
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Jul 22, 2017 17:33
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Jippa posted:He bullies people for money essentially. So he's no better than Suit Yourself or Bearing. I've had to stop watching their videos because despite being a pacifist I really want to punch these people. fallenturtle fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 19:29
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The worst submarine posted:Watching Sargon again (lol) he brings up this picture that I've seen several times before: It's like >95% female and among the lowest paid, so there's multiple angles to go at this one with. Like why is it so low paid? We know from Perry HighScope and other studies that early years education has a massive return on investment and is something that we should be doing more of. Do men not want to do it because it's low paid, or because it is socially considered 'women's work'? Is it low paid because it is considered women's work? Is it considered women's work because it's low paid? There seems to be a chicken-egg situation there, something similar to computer programming in the 60s, where it was considered 'not real engineering' because of a lack of pipes and stuff, and was low paid and there were lot of women involved, then the bro culture took over when it became cool and highly profitable. And one of the things that both MRAs and feminists of many stripes seem to agree on is that male academic under-performance is at least in part due to lack of male teachers at earlier levels (or a PC feminized environment if you want to phrase it like an rear end in a top hat). Addressing that disproportion and having more high quality early years education seems like it would be an all-round good.
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Jul 22, 2017 19:50
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Guavanaut posted:The bit that stands out most thereto me is the early education bit. I was drunk when I made my post above, but the point I completely failed to make was that, for the people in these mindsets, the reasons why are only a curiosity as far as they go to prove their point. So, if you were to say "supposing you're right and there is no discrimination anywhere at all about wage gaps, that doesn't address the 'why' that should naturally peculate to the top with regard to women being under represented in STEM fields, not taking higher paying jobs etc." to which most hand wave it away with some argument that essentially is "I guess we will never know..." Their intellectual honesty is a complete farce, meant to disguise that they are only interested in proving a point they already hold. The dude I mentioned from facebook has a favorite go-to excuse: "Well they just think they can read minds!" He accused me of this, as well as Hbomb when my girlfriend posted his virtue signalling video in response to some garbage hot take he posted on his wall.
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Jul 22, 2017 22:10
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The worst submarine posted:I have no clue how the death stat is involved in the pay gap. Maybe corpses are paid more? I think the picture is trying to imply that men work more dangerous jobs, but that still doesn't explain the wage gap as I imagine most jobs with high rates of occupational fatalities are not well paying. I couldn't find a list of jobs sorted by pay and death rate, so feel free to correct me. Devils advocate time. That death stat could imply the possibility of danger pay. Considering less women choose to work in dangerous occupations, they miss out on the chance of earning more by their own choice.
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Jul 23, 2017 09:25
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yes. it's a fair point, but there's a female pay discrepancy across virtually every occupational field, ranging from a few percentage points to 30-40% for the worst gaps. the youtuber trick looking into things *just enough* to 'debunk' the 30% figure but not enough to come across data like the above is quite aggravating.
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Jul 23, 2017 09:50
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The most aggravating thing is when they go "Well yeah but there's only a Gender Pay Gap because women take different jobs " as if that isn't exactly what the Gender Pay Gap is about in the first place.
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Jul 23, 2017 12:29
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they don't have the intellectual capacity to think beyond a surface reading. destiny tried it with that one fat idiot he had on. he tried to explain to him that women are pressured or conditioned into certain work by the culture and the guy just couldn't grasp what he was saying. they all think when you say a woman gets paid 75 cents for every dollar a man makes that means in the exact same job and for all jobs. they are incredibly stupid people.
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Jul 23, 2017 12:35
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Fans posted:The most aggravating thing is when they go "Well yeah but there's only a Gender Pay Gap because women take different jobs " as if that isn't exactly what the Gender Pay Gap is about in the first place. What REALLY aggravates me is that after explaining that there's a gap even within the same jobs\field, I get told "That's just because women aren't aggressive enough in pushing for a raise or promotion", and that opens up a whole other cornucopia of bullshit.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:13
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