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For a bunch of electric vehicle nerds you guys sure are testy.
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Jul 23, 2017 17:43
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drgitlin posted:The Countryman is the best CUV I've driven because it's small and light (compared to everything else in that class). Didn't drive the phev as I was at Formula E but am looking forward to it, I would hope it would be a hard one for them to gently caress up. Mini had a limited roll out of Plugins I believe, predating the i3. Reaction, from what I remember, ranged from enthusiastic to Tesla levels of loyalty. I have high hopes for EVs in general, I just hate (old) GM (some of the "new" as well) and harbor bad feelings towards them and their work (pure EVs from them, excluding the bolt have been lackluster). I will concede the Volt is a class topper and the second gen is great if you like the styling. But I will always see the bolt for what it is, a compliance vehicle. That being said, one that outdoes ALL other currently available EVs in price, *interior quality,* and specs. The Sicilian fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 17:54
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drgitlin posted:The Countryman is the best CUV I've driven because it's small and light (compared to everything else in that class). Didn't drive the phev as I was at Formula E but am looking forward to it, I would hope it would be a hard one for them to gently caress up. Reviews in the U.K. are calling it a hell of a machine, and because it has a de-tuned version of the i8 power train I'd expect as much. Also holy poo poo if someone makes a tuning kit to boost the 3 cylinder up to the 200+ HP output of the i8 it could be hilariously quick, to boot. I would love the new Countryman PHEV, but at this point I'm in with a Mini R55 that's suiting my needs, and with Mini announcing the Mini Cooper full-electric coming out in ~2 years there's little reason to consider the PHEV. With the outright insane progression of battery tech over the last few years, I think EVs are going to hit this the same purchasing wall that computers hit, where the technology is moving so fast there's no reason to rush out and buy a model today when next year's model has the potential to be 40% faster. Adiabatic posted:For a bunch of electric vehicle nerds you guys sure are testy. I'm going to a meet thing for National Drive Electric Week in September and I feared it'd be boring, but now it looks like we'll get some fist fights out of the deal. 
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Jul 23, 2017 18:13
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The Sicilian posted:But I will always see the bolt for what it is, a compliance vehicle. That being said, one that outdoes ALL other currently available EVs in price, *interior quality,* and specs. ... I don't even know what to say to this.
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Jul 23, 2017 18:17
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The bolt is literally the opposite of a compliance vehicle, even more so in a land full of actual compliance vehicles.
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Jul 23, 2017 18:23
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The Sicilian posted:You just linked me to a video for the chevy Bolt, the bolt is for sale and under production. It's not fair to compare a promotional shot of the chevy and a spy shot of the model 3 interior with engineer diagnostic tools and wires going all over it. Do you seriously think that people in here are slagging the Tesla 3's interior because they believe it's going to come with a bunch of clipboards and shoulder bags and walkie-talkies and cans of iced tea crammed in the front seat? Like, that's your argument?
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Jul 23, 2017 18:48
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MrYenko posted:... eyebeem posted:The bolt is literally the opposite of a compliance vehicle, even more so in a land full of actual compliance vehicles. Huh I coud have sworn it only rolled out in 5 states that really were pushing for compliance for full EV compliance from manufacturers because their nationwide sales and service network wasn't equipped with the capital or knowledge for a full rollout like a normal vehicle.
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Jul 23, 2017 19:12
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The Sicilian posted:Huh I coud have sworn it only rolled out in 5 states that really were pushing for compliance for full EV compliance from manufacturers because their nationwide sales and service network wasn't equipped with the capital or knowledge for a full rollout like a normal vehicle. I'm certainly not arguing for GM's competence here; I think partial-market rollouts are a recipe for failure, but that's a really odd assumption. Particularly since that same sales and dealer network has been dealing with Volts since 2012. (The rollout is allegedly due to volume issues with battery fabrication.)
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Jul 23, 2017 19:52
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I'm quite interested in a Bolt to replace my wife's 2010 Acura CSX thanks to the range it offers, and the $14k government incentives currently being offered that bring the car down to $28k Canadian. She'll have about a 150km round trip commute each day. The VW E-Golf is appealing too, since the incentive makes it $22k. It's a VW though, and we all know how German cars are electric-wise... Regarding home chargers, I see some that are like $700 and some that are multiple thousands of dollars, what's the deal there? Seems to me that I need to do a lot of reading.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:07
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VERTiG0 posted:I'm quite interested in a Bolt to replace my wife's 2010 Acura CSX thanks to the range it offers, and the $14k government incentives currently being offered that bring the car down to $28k Canadian. She'll have about a 150km round trip commute each day. The VW E-Golf is appealing too, since the incentive makes it $22k. It's a VW though, and we all know how German cars are electric-wise... Clipper Creek HCS-40 series (it has a couple models, depending on if you want hardwired or plug, how long the charge cable is, weatherproof, etc.) The Bolt maximum charge rate is 240vac@32a, so a bigger charger is not useful.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:14
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Also "home chargers" is a bit of a misnomer - they're technically power supplies that check to ensure it's safe to supply your EV with juice from the wall. The chargers on most EVs are in the vehicle itself and as MrYenko said will only take as much power as appropriate for the charging level. Aside from making sure you're not going to deep-fry your rear end when you plug it in, the "EVSE" (if you want to be a sperg) sends a communication to the car to tell it that it can safely draw x amperes of current without worrying about blowing your circuits locally. I'd start with looking at what your home's circuit breaker box has to offer and make your decision from there. Depending on your panel's rating, you might be able to safely swing a 35A breaker and get the HCS-40, or if you are a masochist with a vastly underused panel that wants to feed a Tesla Model S 17kW you can fit a 100A breaker instead. Make sure your wiring is up to snuff, though - the crap-rear end apartment I'm renting has a 20A service running to the garage, but I know the wiring is woefully undersized from a prior experiment. This explanation doesn't mean poo poo when it comes to Tesla Superchargers, CHAdeMo or CCS units, though, which are actual off-of-the-EV chargers. Tesla's superchargers can feed 120kW of hot, hot garage-burning action into a Model S and Musk himself is implying the next generation of supercharger will offer > 350kW, so throw everything I said out the window if you pull the Bolt up to a CCS unit.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:43
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Tesla no longer offers leather upholstery. 
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Jul 23, 2017 22:59
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Note that a 32a steady state load will require a 40a breaker in most municipalities. Maybe even a 50a. Honestly, due to its prominence with the RV crowd, a 50a breaker and circuit, and a NEMA 14-50 outlet is a great plan, since that is compatible with nearly everything, will probably only cost a few dollars more than a 40a circuit, and allows for a larger charge load when you get a new car later on.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:59
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Haha drat that sucks. $100k and nary a cow hide. Millions of cattle can be killed for meat but use every part including the hide and it's murder am I right? Come on Elon.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:00
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Michael Scott posted:Haha drat that sucks. $100k and nary a cow hide. Millions of cattle can be killed for meat but use every part including the hide and it's murder am I right? Come on Elon. Look at all the Mercedes with MBTex. Not a new development.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:03
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MrYenko posted:I'm certainly not arguing for GM's competence here; I think partial-market rollouts are a recipe for failure, but that's a really odd assumption. Particularly since that same sales and dealer network has been dealing with Volts since 2012. Here is Bob Lutz himself calling the Bolt a compliance car. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103482_bob-lutz-called-2017-chevy-bolt-ev-a-compliance-car-is-it
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Jul 23, 2017 23:05
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Michael Scott posted:Haha drat that sucks. $100k and nary a cow hide. Millions of cattle can be killed for meat but use every part including the hide and it's murder am I right? Come on Elon. It's non sustainable to eat them either, but when people hear they they feel threatened and lose their minds. 
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Jul 23, 2017 23:06
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Michael Scott posted:Haha drat that sucks. $100k and nary a cow hide. Millions of cattle can be killed for meat but use every part including the hide and it's murder am I right? Come on Elon. There's also the chance that their leather supplier sucks and they had a ton of rejects, or that leather wasn't being ordered in the volume to justify it. There's no real way to know why unless someone inside the company comments on it. 
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Jul 23, 2017 23:08
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Leather seats in cars are terrible anyway. Especially now that we have technical fabrics that make better upholstery material in literally every measure.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:10
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I prefer modern synthetic materials to leather - they wear much better than animal hide. Ha, e:f,b angryrobots fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 23:10
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Michael Scott posted:Haha drat that sucks. $100k and nary a cow hide. Millions of cattle can be killed for meat but use every part including the hide and it's murder am I right? Come on Elon. Good. Leather interiors are loving crap and just a luxury wank job, esp when faux leather synthetics is a fuckload better in every respect. EFB
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Jul 23, 2017 23:13
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Leather upholstery is poo poo. I guess if you've got heated and air conditioned seats it might be ok but if I could spec Alcantara or some other faux suede or deluxe fabric in my imaginary luxury car, I'd do it every time. I'd never choose leather if I had the option not to, and it's got nothing to do with cows.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:19
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Ripoff posted:if you are a masochist with a vastly underused panel that wants to feed a Tesla Model S 17kW you can fit a 100A breaker instead How is that masochism? I've got my HPWC on a 100A breaker (it maxes at 72A draw afaict), and it wasn't painful. Do I have something unfortunate awaiting me?
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Jul 23, 2017 23:22
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My opinion is probably based on not owning a car with good faux leather. I had an '03 Volvo with fake leather and it was much less comfortable than real hide, but I suppose materials have come a long way in 15 years.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:26
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‘Real’ leather varies in quality too though so I don’t see that it makes a lot of difference.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:28
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The Sicilian posted:You just linked me to a video for the chevy Bolt, the bolt is for sale and under production. It's not fair to compare a promotional shot of the chevy and a spy shot of the model 3 interior with engineer diagnostic tools and wires going all over it. How is it a promotional shot of the chevy? It's literally a production model some reviewer got to test drive and his video. Nobody cares about the random tools in the Tesla shot dude, we care about its dire ergonomics. Here is a shot from a brand new production Model 3, it looks exactly the same as the pre-production model:  quote:Must be an outlier, as I really like the economics of the Tesla. I'm a tall guy, and it just feels right. But the Chevy Bolt is not "every GM produced", it's built directly off what GM learned from the Volt, and as such the Volt is the closest comparison. Regardless, even the Spark got better reliability ratings than the Model S. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 00:00
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Gamesguy posted:It "feels right" to have to look at the central console to change climate settings or radio settings or even your current speed? Buttons and dials exist for a reason. I change climate and volume and radio station/tracks from my steering wheel. Is that not the usual thing people do in an S? Is it different in the 3?
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Jul 24, 2017 00:04
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Subjunctive posted:I change climate and volume and radio station/tracks from my steering wheel. Is that not the usual thing people do in an S? Is it different in the 3? It's one of those things that probably everyone is basing their ideas on "legacy" cars (not that steering wheel controls are new). And I get it, for sure. But I also almost never use the touch screen in my Prius, except occasionally (a couple of times a year) to change from defog+feet to front vent+feet. I never need to use it for the stereo, I have wheel buttons for that. Practically everthing I ever need to adjust is done from hard buttons on the wheel. I don't even think about it, and while there's part of me that says "touchscreen bad - buttons and knobs good", in practice I don't use the touchscreen in my own car, or the console controls at all.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:34
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Subjunctive posted:I change climate and volume and radio station/tracks from my steering wheel. Is that not the usual thing people do in an S? Is it different in the 3? Those buttons don't exist on the Model 3, presumably to save money. If Tesla had actually thought their idea through and put in a HUD and moved the buttons to the steering wheel, most people would have been OK with its interior. Instead you get basically a controller for the center console, for which you have to take your eyes off the road and scroll through menus to adjust volume, change the temperature, etc. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 00:37
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Gamesguy posted:Also most cars don't have climate control on the steering wheel. Right, but most Teslas do. I didn't realize those were expensive parts, though using them without the behind-wheel display would be less flexible I guess. (I think removing that display was really bad, but I'll test drive a 3 and see how it actually feels when I'm next at the centre.)
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Jul 24, 2017 00:46
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Subjunctive posted:Right, but most Teslas do. I didn't realize those were expensive parts, though using them without the behind-wheel display would be less flexible I guess. (I think removing that display was really bad, but I'll test drive a 3 and see how it actually feels when I'm next at the centre.) There's a big difference between looking at the dash display to adjust settings and looking at the center console. And yes those little buttons and switches are quite expensive, especially if you want them to look and feel good. It's way cheaper to do what Tesla is doing in the Model 3. Gamesguy fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 00:48
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Subjunctive posted:How is that masochism? I've got my HPWC on a 100A breaker (it maxes at 72A draw afaict), and it wasn't painful. Do I have something unfortunate awaiting me? Not at all, I figured most folks would be paying out the wazoo to get a 100A breaker and 4-gauge wire run. Also holy poo poo I'm envious of a 17kW setup.
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Jul 24, 2017 00:59
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Ripoff posted:Not at all, I figured most folks would be paying out the wazoo to get a 100A breaker and 4-gauge wire run. Also holy poo poo I'm envious of a 17kW setup. I already had 200A service, and it was only about 15 feet from breaker to charger, so with the silly government rebate it cost about the same as getting a 240V put in, as I recall.
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Jul 24, 2017 01:12
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The Sicilian posted:Here is Bob Lutz himself calling the Bolt a compliance car. Lutz had nothing to do with the Bolt, so, okay?
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Jul 24, 2017 04:26
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Gamesguy posted:
I use steering wheel controls like a normal person. Gamesguy posted:There's a big difference between looking at the dash display to adjust settings and looking at the center console. That's crazy you have information on how the Tesla steering wheel controls will work on the model 3, you should email Elektrek. That's my point, you are just hating to hate. Your central criticism isn't even valid on current models for sale. For all we know, a popup HUD is projected from Elon's rear end in a top hat right into your field of view. The point is, we just don't know. You were already wrong about current model functionality. Quit hatin', PBUE. IOwnCalculus posted:Lutz had nothing to do with the Bolt, so, okay? I said it earlier, but Elon is just Bob Lutz with twitter fingers. Just proving my point. Also *I'm* not the first nor only person to claim GM's limited release of the Bolt served to function as a compliance car for the 5 states demanding full EV compliance.
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Jul 24, 2017 04:35
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You do realize Lutz hasn't been at GM since 2010, right?
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Jul 24, 2017 04:38
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The Sicilian posted:For all we know, a popup HUD is projected from Elon's rear end in a top hat right into your field of view. The point is, we just don't know. You were already wrong about current model functionality. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/846668345998925826?lang=en https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/846768171486855169 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/846768497904369664 Do some research please
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Jul 24, 2017 04:53
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The Sicilian posted:Elon is just Bob Lutz with twitter fingers. lol no, Lutz was actually a car guy, and made millions of actual cool cars. Unlike Elon.
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Jul 24, 2017 04:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:You do realize Lutz hasn't been at GM since 2010, right? Yet he still is a major force in the industry when the publications ask for analysis for comment. Sagebrush posted:https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/846668345998925826?lang=en I was being facetious about the HUD, but here we have someone acting like they know the function of the steering wheel controls, simply from spy shots. blugu64 posted:lol no, Lutz was actually a car guy, and made millions of actual cool cars. Unlike Elon. Lutz's first project solo of GM was putting a V8 in fisker shell. The man is a one trick pony, but he sure does it well. Also he aint got poo poo Alan Mulally.
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Jul 24, 2017 05:03
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The Sicilian posted:I use steering wheel controls like a normal person. Too bad the Model 3 doesn't have a dash display. quote:That's crazy you have information on how the Tesla steering wheel controls will work on the model 3, you should email Elektrek. Elon Musk confirmed there isn't a HUD. And we know exactly what the steering wheel controls look like, there are not separate buttons for each function, which means you need to navigate menus and take your eyes off the road . You seem to have a real mental block acknowledging that this is the production model:
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Jul 24, 2017 06:25
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