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Norns posted:I don't think Porsche would pull out of WEC for Formula E. They already have Audi. I have now heard "Porsche to F1" rumors from several people who are well-placed to know. Probably just as an engine supplier though. Speaking of Formula E, here's 4,500 words on the NYC race: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/racing-comes-to-the-big-apple-the-new-york-city-eprix/ (Includes some Allan McNish and plenty of Lucas Di Grassi.)
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Jul 23, 2017 03:59
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Big news for Formula E (maybe, season 6 would be 2020), DTM might be in trouble. https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/889554687246118912
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Jul 24, 2017 19:44
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That's bad for DTM
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Jul 24, 2017 19:45
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DTM nooooooooo
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Jul 24, 2017 19:46
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njsykora posted:Big news for Formula E (maybe, season 6 would be 2020), DTM might be in trouble. RIP DTM
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Jul 24, 2017 19:48
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If people haven't already realized it, Formula E is a legit series. Best to start following it now if you haven't already.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:58
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WindyMan posted:If people haven't already realized it, Formula E is a legit series. Best to start following it now if you haven't already. People have been saying it's legit since the first season, the first race even had intense battles through the entire thing, right down to the finish line. That loving wreck at the finish line in the Beijing ePrix. Ever so slightly a different impact and Nick Heidfeld would have likely died. orange juche fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 24, 2017 |
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Jul 24, 2017 20:00
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once they stop the car swapping and get better tracks, i might watch
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Jul 24, 2017 20:02
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orange juche posted:People have been saying it's legit since the first season, the first race even had intense battles through the entire thing, right down to the finish line. Yeah, but there are still a lot of people that complain about the series being second rate for lots of different reasons. Kind of hard for those views to be justified when top manufacturers are tripping over each other to get into it.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:02
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Really, the only thing second rate about the series at this point is the drivers.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:05
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orange juche posted:RIP DTM 
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Jul 24, 2017 20:07
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WindyMan posted:If people haven't already realized it, Formula E is a legit series. Best to start following it now if you haven't already. Which would be good because then more people would read the thousands of words I've been writing about how it's a legit series for three years now  It was really gratifying to see racing veterans crack a wide smile a few laps into Saturday's race once they realized it was proper racing.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:13
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I managed to convince my old man Formula E is a real series a while back, and he hates electric anything. If the racing can convince an old codger who longs for the days of V12 Formula cars, it's legit.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:15
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Cygni posted:once they stop the car swapping and get better tracks, i might watch The car-swapping is probably the biggest drawback at this point (though if I remember right they're ending that next season). The tracks are a bit of a sticky point because they want to setup tracks with minimal impact to the surrounding area's traffic, which means A. tracks at airports, B. purpose built road courses, or C. support another series (Monaco/Long Beach). The real problem I feel right now is what tracks they do are really short compared to the tracks other series use (they use a neutered version of Monaco).
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Jul 24, 2017 20:28
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iospace posted:The car-swapping is probably the biggest drawback at this point (though if I remember right they're ending that next season). The tracks are a bit of a sticky point because they want to setup tracks with minimal impact to the surrounding area's traffic, which means A. tracks at airports, B. purpose built road courses, or C. support another series (Monaco/Long Beach). The real problem I feel right now is what tracks they do are really short compared to the tracks other series use (they use a neutered version of Monaco). The Monaco and LB races were actually two weeks before the main race weekend, so they weren't really supports series. LB is done, and Monaco is only every other year because it alternates with the historic races, but I have it on good authority from more than one person that when the series goes back there in 2018 with the new car they will run the full circuit.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:31
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iospace posted:The car-swapping is probably the biggest drawback at this point (though if I remember right they're ending that next season). The tracks are a bit of a sticky point because they want to setup tracks with minimal impact to the surrounding area's traffic, which means A. tracks at airports, B. purpose built road courses, or C. support another series (Monaco/Long Beach). The real problem I feel right now is what tracks they do are really short compared to the tracks other series use (they use a neutered version of Monaco). They're also hanging their identity a lot on being entirely on street tracks, which runs very hollow sometimes, especially when they go to Mexico and its just a straight up normal racetrack. The track length is definitely a problem, as the series speeds up they're outgrowing a lot of older track designs that are becoming sub-minute tracks. That they haven't officially adopted the Formulino E car design as an official feeder series yet is disappointing though because that car looks pretty nice. 
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Jul 24, 2017 20:38
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njsykora posted:They're also hanging their identity a lot on being entirely on street tracks, which runs very hollow sometimes, especially when they go to Mexico and its just a straight up normal racetrack. The track length is definitely a problem, as the series speeds up they're outgrowing a lot of older track designs that are becoming sub-minute tracks. That they haven't officially adopted the Formulino E car design as an official feeder series yet is disappointing though because that car looks pretty nice. McNish discussed the dilemma of cars getting too fast for the tracks a bit in my piece.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:06
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I remember Radio LeMans' Midweek Motorsports describing DTM as a commitment that none of the three manufacturers wanted to continue, but all three were afraid to be "the bad guy" and pull out. Wouldn't be surprised if it collapses UNLESS one of the Japanese makes steps in to replace Mercedes (and I would bet on that being Toyota/Lexus first, but no clue if they'd actually do it). Especially since, unlike Super GT, DTM is a pure marketing exercise. I'm not terribly surprised Formula E is flourishing so much because it has to be a much, much cheaper series to enter and run in than others (probably $10 million a year or less for the team budget, which is more IndyCar budget than F1) and, unlike DTM, actually supports the company's electric push, both in marketing and engineering.
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Jul 24, 2017 22:49
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harperdc posted:I'm not terribly surprised Formula E is flourishing so much because it has to be a much, much cheaper series to enter and run in than others (probably $10 million a year or less for the team budget, which is more IndyCar budget than F1) and, unlike DTM, actually supports the company's electric push, both in marketing and engineering. Formula E budgets are going to skyrocket in 5 years; the only reason they were so cheap up to now is because everything but the actual powertrain was spec (and the powertrain was heavily regulated). If Merc is coming in, with BMW confirmed as being in and with Audi taking over Abt and making it a genuinely works team, the spec elements are going to die a painful death. iospace posted:The car-swapping is probably the biggest drawback at this point (though if I remember right they're ending that next season). They're allowing development on the batteries and ending the car swapping for the next season. Cygni posted:once they stop the car swapping and get better tracks, i might watch So they stop the car swapping next year, but the battery tech probably has a way to go until they can do "normal" tracks and race distances. Watch some of the youtube highlights/full race uploads that they put up next year. The racing is surprisingly decent. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 00:27
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orange juche posted:RIP DTM
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Jul 25, 2017 00:33
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Schlesische posted:Formula E budgets are going to skyrocket in 5 years; the only reason they were so cheap up to now is because everything but the actual powertrain was spec (and the powertrain was heavily regulated). If Merc is coming in (with BMW following if rumours and my memory for them serve) then the spec element of the series is about to die a painful death. The powertrain isn't fully spec, much of that other than the motor is open hence why there's a fairly large difference between the gearing setup of many cars (some still running standard 5 gear setups and others just using 1). Batteries also aren't going to be an area for development for teams any time soon as production of those is on a long term contract for McLaren. The question regarding ending car swapping has mostly been do you eliminate the need for a pitstop completely, allow hotswapping batteries or use some kind of quick charging system. All 3 have advantages regarding electric car development and it's going to be interesting which one they go with.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:52
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njsykora posted:The powertrain isn't fully spec, much of that other than the motor is open hence why there's a fairly large difference between the gearing setup of many cars (some still running standard 5 gear setups and others just using 1). Batteries also aren't going to be an area for development for teams any time soon as production of those is on a long term contract for McLaren. The question regarding ending car swapping has mostly been do you eliminate the need for a pitstop completely, allow hotswapping batteries or use some kind of quick charging system. All 3 have advantages regarding electric car development and it's going to be interesting which one they go with. Wow I was off the mark. Thanks.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:01
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njsykora posted:The powertrain isn't fully spec, much of that other than the motor is open hence why there's a fairly large difference between the gearing setup of many cars (some still running standard 5 gear setups and others just using 1). Batteries also aren't going to be an area for development for teams any time soon as production of those is on a long term contract for McLaren. The question regarding ending car swapping has mostly been do you eliminate the need for a pitstop completely, allow hotswapping batteries or use some kind of quick charging system. All 3 have advantages regarding electric car development and it's going to be interesting which one they go with. We already know where that's going. The season 5 car will have a 56kWh battery. The teams and other stakeholders have just started discussing the next car, due in season 8. I would expect we'll see the gearbox-and-one-mgu rule get ditched. Whether that means front and rear MGUs, or even the possibility visual motors per-wheel it's too soon to know but those kinds of things are being discussed.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:48
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From the beginning of Formula E I've wondered if or when Tesla might want to jump in as a manufacturer or a technology partner. If the brand sees itself competing with the luxury/technology set of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, they should surely be noticing that all of them are in Formula E now. Tesla has a big head start on electric vehicle and battery tech, but if everyone else is tinkering and pushing one another in FE then I think that advantage would get cut into pretty fast.njsykora posted:The question regarding ending car swapping has mostly been do you eliminate the need for a pitstop completely, allow hotswapping batteries or use some kind of quick charging system. All 3 have advantages regarding electric car development and it's going to be interesting which one they go with. Tesla designs their cars for the batteries to be swappable in minutes. That kind of application would be cool to see hyperspeed in a racing environment. Although a "fueler" attaching a hose full of electricity to "refuel" would be pretty sweet as well.
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Jul 25, 2017 03:16
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WindyMan posted:From the beginning of Formula E I've wondered if or when Tesla might want to jump in as a manufacturer or a technology partner. If the brand sees itself competing with the luxury/technology set of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, they should surely be noticing that all of them are in Formula E now. Tesla has a big head start on electric vehicle and battery tech, but if everyone else is tinkering and pushing one another in FE then I think that advantage would get cut into pretty fast. The amount of current required for a race speed recharge of an electric vehicle battery would overload the powergrid of an entire continent, it's literally a case of "Physics says get hosed". Fast swap batteries is probably the closest thing you're going to get, or a large uptick in capacity negating the need for a car swap/pitstop entirely.
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Jul 25, 2017 06:00
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Or it would be like F1 where they only pit for tires
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Jul 25, 2017 06:17
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WindyMan posted:From the beginning of Formula E I've wondered if or when Tesla might want to jump in as a manufacturer or a technology partner. If the brand sees itself competing with the luxury/technology set of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, they should surely be noticing that all of them are in Formula E now. Tesla has a big head start on electric vehicle and battery tech, but if everyone else is tinkering and pushing one another in FE then I think that advantage would get cut into pretty fast. A: Tesla has repeatedly told me that it has absolutely no interest in racing. It doesn't care about Formula E, it doesn't care about the guy who races a Model S at Pikes Peak, or the Electric GT series. None of it. Don't get your hopes up. B: even Tesla has given up on the hot-swappable batteries. The only company seriously pursuing it is Nio with the EP9.
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Jul 25, 2017 06:53
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drgitlin posted:B: even Tesla has given up on the hot-swappable batteries. The only company seriously pursuing it is Nio with the EP9. I don't think it's the best use for current passenger cars but other applications? Could work. But that's for another time. I think they'll still have to work their race lengths around a single charge, but hopefully can end the car swapping soon. Fast charging would be awesome to see but that won't allow for F1 style lighting-fast stops quite yet.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:38
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Kilonum posted:Or it would be like F1 where they only pit for tires This won't happen as long as the sustainability angle of the series promotion exists. The current tires are thinner and grooved supposedly because they use less rubber to make (that skinny grooved tires mean less grip and less grip means more crashes and fun youtube highlights is a total coincidence I'm sure) and I think teams only get 3-4 sets for a weekend. The other major thing I think needs changing is the need of drivers to conserve power, if this is truly going to lead to people liking electric cars more they need to be able to go balls out maximum attack for the full 45 minutes.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:44
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VFR dropping the (now dead) Riley, switching to Ligier. http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/142555-visit-florida-trades-riley-for-ligier
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Jul 25, 2017 16:44
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I wonder if Joest is going to tell Mazda to drop the Riley chassis if they want to win? Considering Riley doesn't know how to build a carbon fiber prototype and all.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:05
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orange juche posted:I wonder if Joest is going to tell Mazda to drop the Riley chassis if they want to win? Considering Riley doesn't know how to build a carbon fiber prototype and all. They apparently aren't allowed to change the chassis they homolgated with until after the 2019 season.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:22
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Hoo boy, well I hope Joest can work a loving miracle then, but there's always the possibility that the Riley is just too much of a boat anchor to work with.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:26
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harperdc posted:I don't think it's the best use for current passenger cars but other applications? Could work. But that's for another time. So, McNish's answer to that was "if we make the cars faster we can't race on the same circuits because we need more runoff etc". The answer will be cars that still top out at 140mph but which have even better acceleration.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:40
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If making the cars faster means moving tracks I'd rather they move tracks to be honest. Right now the street tracks aren't exactly inspiring and putting the races on an actual racetrack would send the message that electric cars belong on a racetrack. It's also extremely limiting to building any kind of support bill.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:54
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I thought everyone just kind of assumed the cars would outgrow the tracks as the tech improved?
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Jul 25, 2017 17:56
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Norns posted:I thought everyone just kind of assumed the cars would outgrow the tracks as the tech improved? No, they don't want to lose the aspect of racing in city centers. McNish (who is Audi's director of Formula E now) explained it thus: quote:"We have this balance: are we purely an R&D facility, are we a sport, are we entertainment, are we all of the above? We are all of the above, so there's some things we'll want to do but some things we'll decide as a group might fit for road car development but not for Formula E. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/racing-comes-to-the-big-apple-the-new-york-city-eprix/ Di Grassi did make a point about the cars technically being able to run the Nordschleife, but then you'd only get 4 laps to a race. And if FE is going to be about improving road EVs, then the focus on acceleration and not top speed makes sense. But we should have the full Monaco track in 2018. Singapore is an outside chance but I doubt it'll happen.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:05
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Yeah but they have to manage that transition. The FIA isn't going to to let them go with 1000hp on these dinky street circuits, so they need to decide to graduate to big boy tracks or hold onto a hard power cap.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:05
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I watch 4 laps of formula e on the nordschleife
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Jul 25, 2017 18:08
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Norns posted:I watch 4 laps of formula e on the nordschleife yeah i would rather watch that than what theyve been doing, that sounds cool and good
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Jul 25, 2017 18:11
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