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Mind_Taker posted:How much can I reasonably expect to get for my trade-in? It's a silver 2006 Chevy Cobalt LT with ~143,000 miles. The original engine was replaced after it hydrolocked when my wife ran through a deep puddle. Various other issues (some power windows don't work, AC is sporadic, occasional stalling issues, some stains on the interior). If you can make it into the lot, generally $500 is the amount a dealer would give you for a junk car. My old car was cracked up from 4 accidents (3 from the previous owner), had a cracked motor mount, and the interior was stained as well. I had bought it for $700 dollars. Sold it for $500 two years later still, lol. You can try a private sale and maybe wrangle a little more out of a person looking for a beater like I was years ago.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:36
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A dealer will try to offer you whatever they consider scrap for that car. But anything that runs decent you should be able to get 2 times that at least selling it private party if you want to deal with that.
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Jul 24, 2017 20:40
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Apparently CarMax is known for giving high values to tradeins. A year ago they were going to give $1200 for my 2003 Ford Explorer. I declined and sold it a couple weeks later for $4200.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:02
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Thanks everyone. Purchased a used 2017 Chevy Cruze LT with only 9000 miles on it out the door for $16100. We only got $500 for her old car but I guess that was a reasonable trade in price given the condition of the car. We didn't feel like doing a private sale.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:22
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Why would you spend 16k on a former rental car?
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Jul 25, 2017 05:06
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Phone is a known shitposter, and that sounds like a decent deal although the value is gonna drop fast. Enjoy the Cruze.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:14
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Hello folks, second time used car-buyer. I bought a '05 Accord in 2008, known accident and repo, no less, had it checked out by a reliable mechanic and it's never given me trouble for 9 years. Now we have a baby and want an additional car. Proposed Budget: Under 20k, preferably ~15k. New or Used: USED Body Style: Looking for a mid-size SUV, basically. (So far have not been able to convince ourselves that we should just get an Odyssey.) How will you be using the car: Looking for a long-term, roomy 3-5 people / 2 car-seat hauler, third row possibilities a plus for camping trips with an additional 2-3 people. What aspects are most important to you?: -Japanese -Reliability -Good visibility -Low cabin noise -I like leather And I might as well throw out that I've been looking at 2010-2014 model cars. Mostly I've internet-sleuthed the following cars: -CRV (started as the top contender, my folks have a 2001 CRV that was great except that it's always been a weak car, and so when I read that even the late model CRVs are known for being anemic that made me less certain - I probably need to test drive one at least) -Pilot (7/8 seats, but, numb/lumbering beast and Odyssey cop-out?) -Forester (heard its noisy, something something manifold leaks?) -RAV4 (almost sold on this one on the basis of the possibility of finding 2010-2012 RAV4s with the 3.5L V6) -Lexus RX400h (hybrid, high mpg, but the latest model for this particular one was 2008, I don't know if that's just too old? I see a handful out there with <60k miles.) Others that maybe seem likely but I don't know enough about : -Highlander? (pretty low mpg?) -CX-9? -Ford Flex (despite the uggles) Aside from recommendations, looking for answers to the following questions: -Is there some 'optimum mileage' in a used car? I've been looking for cars under 80k, mostly because the Accord we have was bought with 88k and now has 150k. How many miles is too many when you're looking for good down-the-road reliability? -For some reason I have it in my head that I don't want the car to be too long, for example the Odyssey is 210" whereas most of the SUVs are 190-200". Just feel like that's a parking complication, although the more I've started paying attention to cars on the road the more it seems that there are a hell of a lot of huge cars out there. (Before this I was not able to identify any cars except my model year Accord and if I noticed a car it was only because I thought it was hideous.) -No salvage? Even if I get it checked out by a mechanic? carcinofuck fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 06:46
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Phone posted:Why would you spend 16k on a former rental car? Not a rental. We live in Florida and we joked that it belonged to an old person who then died. So perhaps it's cursed. But it's not a rental. Michael Scott posted:Phone is a known shitposter, and that sounds like a decent deal although the value is gonna drop fast. Enjoy the Cruze. She was actually thinking about getting a new Cruze but she decided to look at lightly used instead to knock around $4-5k off. It seems like most of the major depreciation already happened before we bought it.
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Jul 25, 2017 11:26
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People in AI are always showing up and saying "They're selling X car for only 15k! (when it's some 20k msrp car)" How do people tell this? Is it just incentives, both national and local? Or is it negotiation? Or both? For example, right now I see there's 4k "cash back" on a Ford Focus Hatchback SE, which Basically I don't trust a dealership to tell me what their various incentives mean. Also the Ford "build and price" tool is telling me I can only choose their (CVT?) automatic, is that true? I would only ever buy a Focus in stick, so if they dropped that from the car ~whelp.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:11
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There is no way a Cruze rental would only have 9k miles
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Jul 25, 2017 13:34
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The Focus is only available in stick in S, ST and Titanium trims, I think. The automatic is an automated manual DCT which is not very good for a wide variety of reasons. The cash back isn't a gimmick. If it's from the manufacturer, it's a discount from MSRP. It may be in lieu of other financing offerings from the manufacturer, but it's real. You get whatever is published from the OEM, and you get whatever you can negotiate from the dealer. The tricky thing is that sometimes dealers are not particularly honest about manufacturer incentives, but you can always look them up. You should never specifically trust the dealer, but don't outright assume they're lying (that's a bit presumptuous and rude, and at least 20% of car dealers are actually honest). Just have them clearly itemize the discounts, cross reference from the OEM website, and you're good. If they won't give you an itemized price sheet, don't do business with them. edit: the OE build and price tool will net OEM incentives in the price it shows. edit2: it looks like they killed the manual transmission in the focus for 2017? KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 13:35
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Phone posted:Why would you spend 16k on a former rental car? Considering there's $2,500 on the hood for a new one I really struggle to see the purpose of buying a gently used Cruze.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:38
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Thanks kyoon, now I can see that there is no discount currently on a fit, but the iA has 2k off it's already low price. Does a certain time of year normally have more incentives?
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Jul 25, 2017 13:44
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Jack B Nimble posted:Thanks kyoon, now I can see that there is no discount currently on a fit, but the iA has 2k off it's already low price. Yes, right now is usually a high incentive time of year. Early July in North America is plant shutdown and retool, so following the shutdown (usually about two weeks) the plant is now producing the next model year's cars. In order for dealers to take delivery of these cars (and pay for them), the dealer has to have available floorplan financing. I think I've explained that one before, but basically the dealer has a certain line of credit with a bank to pay for their inventory. If their inventory isn't turning over, they can't free space in their line of credit to buy more cars. So therefore, after the model year changeover, the OEM has (even more of) an incentive to help the dealer sell old inventory and replace it with new. Late in the model year, you can usually get a good OEM discount, plus the dealer offering up its own discounts to move aged inventory. End of model year you can frequently get 25-30% off the very last units in inventory, but this stuff goes really fast and you don't get to pick options/colors/etc that you may want. Other good times - for dealer discounting, usually the end of month / end of quarter is a good time. The dealer is usually given a sales target from the OEM and if they achieve the target they get significant discounts on vehicle purchase prices or cash back incentives or other assistance. If a dealer is a few cars short of target or a few cars short of a stretch target they may be willing to sell the car at breakeven or loss in order to realize other bonuses. For OEM incentives, there's usually a quarterly cadence. First quarter is usually decent incentives to get a good start to the year, second quarter a little slow, third quarter the highest, fourth quarter it depends on performance against internal targets. If you like nazimobiles, BMW and MB always have a stupid poo poo sales war at the end of the year so you can get a good deal in Q4 almost always. If the macroeconomy is lovely and sales start to soften incentives will pile up big time. Cars with big inventory supplies in the network will receive high incentives, so stuff like the Cadillac CTS is almost always heavily incented. Sometimes there are dumb slapfights between companies like when VW was offering an extra $500 on the hood for any Chrysler/FCA owner because Serge and Ferdinand were having some sort of dick measuring contest. Stuff like that rules.
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Jul 25, 2017 13:58
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Mind_Taker posted:It seems like most of the major depreciation already happened before we bought it. Heh.. almost. Yes, you saved a good chunk of change buying lightly used. However, that $16k Cruze is going to be worth about $10k in practically no time at all, maybe a year or two. And it'll keep dropping. There are a ton of used sedans on the market, and everybody wants crossovers.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:13
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Awesome, that helps me understand all this, thanks again. I just had one more question; I'm reading that the subprime car loans are going to drop the bottom out of used car prices, which will then have a knock on effect on new car prices - has this already happened or is it still something that might happen? So this: Kyoon Griffey JR posted:If the macroeconomy is lovely and sales start to soften incentives will pile up big time.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:18
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That hasn't fully happened yet. It's not something I would necessarily use to decide whether or not to buy a car, unless you have an extreme amount of time on your side. And if you have that much time, the prudent BFC choice is to wait as long as possible so you use all the value of your current car. What it does change is the new/lightly used argument. The idea of "used car is better deal" is so pervasive that when the economy is strong, popular models in the 1-3 year old range will sell very near MSRP. Especially once you account for the incentives and better financing typically available only on new cars. When the economy craters, people just stop buying cars altogether. The incentives on new cars get bigger and used car prices have to drop even harder to compete. carcinofuck posted:Hello folks, second time used car-buyer. I bought a '05 Accord in 2008, known accident and repo, no less, had it checked out by a reliable mechanic and it's never given me trouble for 9 years. Now we have a baby and want an additional car. A salvage title, especially on a new and high value car, means at some point it had enough damage to convince an insurance company it was a better idea to buy the car and scrap it instead of fixing it. In the price range you're looking at, this means the car had damage of at least $6-9k, and there's no upper limit on that. Salvage titles bring with them potential issues with registration, insurance, and a huge question mark on how well the car was repaired. Good deals on salvage cars do not exist for the regular person, only for the person who is able to see the damage and fix it themselves. IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 14:30
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The $16k cruze is fine if bought new, serviced well, and driven for 200k miles, but the problem is it's a cruze, so inevitably it will be dead or you will get rid of it within 5 years because it's a cruze.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:57
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Pryor on Fire posted:The $16k cruze is fine if bought new, serviced well, and driven for 200k miles, but the problem is it's a cruze, so inevitably it will be dead or you will get rid of it within 5 years because it's a cruze. That class of GM cars actually seem to last forever as long as you're OK with them being huge pieces of poo poo once they're 4 years old or older. Everything cosmetic will break, all plastic will be cracked, warped, and loose, but the drivetrain, suspension, brakes will never die.
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Jul 25, 2017 15:09
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IOwnCalculus posted:A salvage title, especially on a new and high value car, means at some point it had enough damage to convince an insurance company it was a better idea to buy the car and scrap it instead of fixing it. In the price range you're looking at, this means the car had damage of at least $6-9k, and there's no upper limit on that. Salvage titles bring with them potential issues with registration, insurance, and a huge question mark on how well the car was repaired. Good deals on salvage cars do not exist for the regular person, only for the person who is able to see the damage and fix it themselves. Okay thanks. Is the situation any different if, say, relatively newer car that was salvaged in the beginning of its life and has been driven around for 2-3 years since then? I mean I would take it to a mechanic anyway, but what you're saying is is that a mechanic might not see the extent of damage?
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Jul 25, 2017 17:35
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Jack B Nimble posted:Awesome, that helps me understand all this, thanks again. Subprime car loans on new cars could possibly drop the bottom out of used car prices if default rates skyrocket, because there will be a lot of repo'd inventory. But people are still gonna want to get in to cars and if loan standards become more strict, it may force more people in to used cars which would soak up that inventory to some degree. But broadly, a lot of supply in used cars means lower prices, which means that people are likely to choose slightly used cars over new cars because the price difference is too good to pass up. Assuming the issue is relatively isolated to car loans, there will be a slowing in new car sales, but it's more like 17MM sales to 15-16MM sales rather than 16MM sales to 10MM sales (like in The Bad Year). If everything else is OK in the broader economy, the increased demand will drive new and used car prices back to a similar equilibrium point as they were before. Used car has been weird for the last several years because of cash for clunkers, which killed a lot of low end inventory. That weirdness is finally starting to leave as the older car park is starting to grow again. There will always be something weird moving through the vehicle aging curve due to The Bad Year because that took a massive bite out of the car park for that year. It manifested itself in late model used cars 4 years ago, now in the sort of $10k used car range now, and eventually will be fairly annoying at the bottom of the market. On subprime car loans: it's potentially serious for individuals, and for banks with bad exposure. But it's either not going to be that bad, in which case the odds of you reaping a good discount are low, or it's going to be bad and kick us off in to a series of events that cause an actual by God recession, in which case hunting around for new car deals can be lucrative but you may have other things to worry about (house, job, etc).
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Jul 25, 2017 17:36
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carcinofuck posted:Okay thanks. Is the situation any different if, say, relatively newer car that was salvaged in the beginning of its life and has been driven around for 2-3 years since then? I mean I would take it to a mechanic anyway, but what you're saying is is that a mechanic might not see the extent of damage? You can hide a lot of lovely repairs.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:37
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carcinofuck posted:Okay thanks. Is the situation any different if, say, relatively newer car that was salvaged in the beginning of its life and has been driven around for 2-3 years since then? I mean I would take it to a mechanic anyway, but what you're saying is is that a mechanic might not see the extent of damage? I have a background in collision repair so I probably know better than most if a car has been done "right" and I wouldn't buy a car repaired in an accident unless I had a full series of insurance estimates, complete photographic documentation of every stage of the repair, any sort of frame straightening results documents, the final set of invoices, and I knew the guy whose shop actually did the repairs on a professional level.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:45
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carcinofuck posted:Okay thanks. Is the situation any different if, say, relatively newer car that was salvaged in the beginning of its life and has been driven around for 2-3 years since then? I mean I would take it to a mechanic anyway, but what you're saying is is that a mechanic might not see the extent of damage? In general, I would prefer a car that had been salvaged later in it's life because in an 8 or 10 year old car, denting a couple body panels can be enough to declare it a total loss because the car isn't worth much. It takes very serious damage to total a new car, so a car that was salvaged early had something very, very expensive get damaged or destroyed.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:51
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Thanks guys. I take it the same applies to 'rebuilt'? From what I read this just means that someone has verified that the more superficial stuff like brake lights and whatnot is in working order.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:54
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When someone says a 'salvage' title is for sale they probably mean rebuilt. Salvage title cars are not able to be registered until repaired and usually superficially inspected by the state at which point it is given a 'rebuilt' title. When you look for a model on cars.com or whatever and you see something for sale that is several thousand $ below market for miles and year, it is probably a rebuilt title. There are a couple used lots in my city that have almost 100% rebuilt inventory and flood used listings with those to hook low-information buyers.
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Jul 25, 2017 17:57
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I'd like to share the "before" picture on a car that was declared a total loss in its first year of life, and then turned around, fixed, and issued a rebuilt title:
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Jul 25, 2017 18:03
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Twerk from Home posted:I'd like to share the "before" picture on a car that was declared a total loss in its first year of life, and then turned around, fixed, and issued a rebuilt title: Fiesta or Focus? 
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Jul 25, 2017 18:04
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Michael Scott posted:Fiesta or Focus? Focus. It looked cosmetically fine after being rebuilt, but those crash structures sure as hell seem like they're single use only...
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Jul 25, 2017 18:06
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When it's that bad do they use new sheet metal / body panels from the factory? Also, is 'airbags not deployed', even if verifiable, meaningless?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:26
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Twerk from Home posted:Focus. It looked cosmetically fine after being rebuilt, but those crash structures sure as hell seem like they're single use only... Ideally they don't reuse any of that stuff and they replace and resection everything but the thing is, you never really know unless you were the one doing the work or supervising the process very closely. carcinofuck posted:When it's that bad do they use new sheet metal / body panels from the factory? Ideally yes, more probably they salvage the front end off of a Focus that got whacked in the back. If you're lucky they both use OEM parts AND generally try to follow proper sectioning procedures, etc, but even then the result is not typically as good as new. If they were Takata recall bags, it might have benefited you! edit: look, bottom line there are millions of cars which have not been crashed in to lamp posts / other cars / the inside of a garage / a deer / a toddler and then repaired either excellently / indifferently / cheaply / by meth users so why the hell do you want to gently caress with some even low probability Russia Roulette?
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Jul 25, 2017 18:31
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Alright, I don't know if anyone cares to comment on my car list but regarding the 2008 RX400h: is it silly/problematic to buy a car that old when I could get a relatively newer CRV or RAV4? Example of an old Lexus: https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/d/lexus-rxh/6217979219.html Versus, like, a 2012 RAV4: https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd/d/toyota-rav-limited/6231129977.html carcinofuck fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 19:06
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carcinofuck posted:Alright, I don't know if anyone cares to comment on my car list but regarding the 2008 RX400h: is it silly/problematic to buy a car that old when I could get a relatively newer CRV or RAV4? It's a soft boring "I want to speak to your manager" soccer-mom mobile, but it is ultimately just a luxed up Toyota. It's probably largely fine, but it is a 10 year old luxury hybrid SUV so expect some maintenance and wear and tear items with a bit of a "Lexus tax" added on for cost.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:24
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carcinofuck posted:Alright, I don't know if anyone cares to comment on my car list but regarding the 2008 RX400h: is it silly/problematic to buy a car that old when I could get a relatively newer CRV or RAV4? what is your goal for your car, really? it sounds like you want to keep it forever. The RAV4 will last longer in absolute terms. However you should probably buy an RX-450h if you can find one in your price range. Also check out the MDX, the Toyota Highlander (incl Hybrid), and the Subaru Outback.
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Jul 25, 2017 19:39
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what is your goal for your car, really? it sounds like you want to keep it forever. The RAV4 will last longer in absolute terms. RAV4s are having all sorts of engine problems. A friend of ours just dumped hers after having to have the rings replaced. I'd avoid them for a while.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:16
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carcinofuck posted:When it's that bad do they use new sheet metal / body panels from the factory? This is why the question marks get really, really big with a salvage / restored vehicle. The insurance company that was responsible for making the owner whole, most likely priced out the repairs using the rates of a competent (but competitive) shop doing skilled labor, and with OE or OE-grade aftermarket replacement parts. The number they came back with to do that work was large enough that the insurance company said no, and that's typically in the range of 60-70% of the vehicle's then-current value. So for a newer vehicle to be totaled, that repair number had to be big. If you want to see this from the other side, Lloyd Dobler documented his latest salvage-to-daily project. It ticks all the right boxes - he bought it damaged so he can see exactly how hard a hit it took. It's an older car that depreciation has already hit hard, so even though the damage was largely cosmetic, it doesn't take much to reach the total threshold. Most importantly, he did the work himself so he knows what had to be replaced, what had to be banged back into shape, and he was able to make his own informed decisions on what risks (if any) he's taking on the car. Unless you are in a position like him, you are not in a position for buying a salvage titled car to make any sense whatsoever. Back to your original list - the 2012+ CRV is no rocket but I wouldn't call it anemic, either. Don't be afraid of wide open throttle. You didn't say whether your Accord is a 4-cyl or a V6, either... if it's a four cylinder, the CRV is probably more similar in performance than you'd expect. If you can swing it, the CVT in the 2015+ models goes a long way to making it feel faster. It can get the engine right to the powerband much quicker than the 5-speed automatic.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:45
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Deteriorata posted:RAV4s are having all sorts of engine problems. A friend of ours just dumped hers after having to have the rings replaced. I'd avoid them for a while. It doesn't sound like the 3.5L V6 (option on 2010-2012) has these problems? IOwnCalculus posted:Back to your original list - the 2012+ CRV is no rocket but I wouldn't call it anemic, either. Don't be afraid of wide open throttle. You didn't say whether your Accord is a 4-cyl or a V6, either... if it's a four cylinder, the CRV is probably more similar in performance than you'd expect. Yeah I have a 4 cylinder Accord and while it's lost a bit of performance in the past decade, I wouldn't call it anemic. On the other hand, I was looking for something with a little more vroom. What's your experience of cabin noise on the CRVs? That's one of the main reasons I was looking at Lexus. As someone asked, in short I'm looking for a SUV, possibly with a 3rd row, to run into the ground that is quiet and has good visibility. Opinions on the Mazda CX-9? carcinofuck fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 21:11
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carcinofuck posted:What's your experience of cabin noise on the CRVs? That's one of the main reasons I was looking at Lexus. Quieter than anything else I've ever owned long term... but that really isn't saying much when compared to a convertible, a hot hatch, and a 47 year old truck. My Jeep Grand Cherokee is about the same overall noise level but with waaaaay more clanks / rattles / god only knows what's broken now noises.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:58
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Quiet, in absolute terms, is expensive. You could find some sort of small Buick, which would be quiet, but it wouldn't be a Japanese car which evidently matters to you.
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Jul 26, 2017 01:26
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Dammit. Every lead I had on stuff I wanted to buy just loving blipped out. Currently deciding between a 2012 escape and a 03 element.
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Jul 26, 2017 03:52
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