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MullardEL34 posted:During the 2015 elections they went as far as making a fake political party that had an almost identical name and logo as the opposition so that it would dilute the opposition vote. They had a tent set up in Los Ruices, it just said "Unidad", the "Min" part of Min-UNIDAD wasn't even there, the tent was even blue like the other MUD tents. Apparently that was all that cocksucker William Ojeda's doing. What's worse is that, it used to be Renny Ottolina's party, what a way to poo poo on his legacy.
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Jul 16, 2017 22:16
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fishmech posted:The only thing I can imagine going on here is some sort of weird thing where they have PDVSA become a subsidiary of Citgo, rather than Citgo being the subsidiary as it is now. Wait what? All they are doing is accepting money from a US company to produce oil. They have agreements with a ton of different companies. They didn't sell PDVSA off. They owe too much money for this to even happen right now
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Jul 16, 2017 22:27
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The voting centres were supposed to close at 4:00 PM, but as far as I can tell most of them are still open right now (it's 6:41 PM Venezuelan time). This is because at 4:00 PM, the centres still had huge lines of people waiting to vote, so they're not closing the centres until everyone in line has had a chance to vote. This is standard in Venezuelan elections (and I think in elections in other countries, too - as long as you're in line by the official voting time, you get to vote). All of this is to say that the official figures aren't in yet, so we don't know how many people voted. Even considering the shooting in Catia that left one person dead, the day's events unfolded much better than a lot of people (myself included) had imagined. The event in Catia was in fact a colectivo armado attack. Men on motorcycles approached the crowd of voters in the area and started shooting. The fatality was a 61-year-old woman named Ximoara Escot. Three other people were injured in the shooting. The videos below shows part of the attack: https://twitter.com/AndrewsAbreu/status/886662996658987008 https://twitter.com/hispanopost/status/886673867921555456 Aside from the shooting, there were also sporadic "irregular events", as they call them in Venezuela, in other parts of the country. In Puerto Ayacucho, Amazonas state, someone (apparently National Guard soldiers) fired teargas into two voting centres in the morning: https://twitter.com/Truja/status/886601960102744064 And in San Carlos, Cojedes and Pilieri, Yaracuy, state police officers attempted to stop people from voting: https://twitter.com/CaraotaDigital/status/886572612771512320 https://twitter.com/alcaldeledezma/status/886566379654180865 It's been said a couple of times already, but the turnout was massive. Here are a couple of pictures and videos from around the country: Los Teques, Miranda state: https://twitter.com/alcaldeledezma/status/886588719611904001 Parque Caracas, Caracas: https://twitter.com/EfectoCocuyo/status/886565624973021184 La Candelaria, Caracas: https://twitter.com/NTN24ve/status/886592477976817665 This point might be obvious, but I think that it's worth stating. For months and years now, TeleSur and the regime have been telling us that the opposition is violent; that it's made up of fascists, terrorists, and thugs who want take power by force. Today, we saw millions of Venezuelans prove the official line wrong once more. What we saw today was a people demonstrating once again that yes, they want political change, but only by peaceful means. What's the regime's response? To say that the vote is illegal, that it "carries no consequences" for the government, that it's meaningless. MullardEL34 posted:During the 2015 elections they went as far as making a fake political party that had an almost identical name and logo as the opposition so that it would dilute the opposition vote. EDIT: The opposition has a website here that is updated every few minutes with vote numbers. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 23:55
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Chuck Boone posted:EDIT: The opposition has a website here that is updated every few minutes with vote numbers. Man, I had to reload that website like 20 times before I managed to get in. I guess I'll find out via Twitter once the results start coming in.
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Jul 17, 2017 01:01
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The OAS should recognize the vote and it's result.
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Jul 17, 2017 01:10
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102,748 Venezuelans voted in Miami alone. All the tables closed at 8:48 PM Venezuelan time (EST). Total percentage counted 62%
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Jul 17, 2017 01:58
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Results are in 7,186,00+ votes. Very good Numbers
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Jul 17, 2017 04:46
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7.186.170 with 95% of the votes having been tallied. It's in the ballpark of the votes the opposition got in the past two elections. It's nowhere near the 10 million plus the opposition was aiming for, but it's a good result and enough to move forward with the next steps, I think.
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Jul 17, 2017 04:47
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Is the election system in Venezuela still independent and functioning? What are the chances that the current government is able to alter the tallies on the vote?
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Jul 17, 2017 05:01
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Xae posted:Is the election system in Venezuela still independent and functioning? It was an independent election run by MUD not the election commission
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Jul 17, 2017 05:03
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Xae posted:Is the election system in Venezuela still independent and functioning? This was a manual election without the Electoral Council or any of its equipment. In fact, the government forbade the media to inform people about it in most cases and everything was put together in two weeks by volunteers. There really isn't anything the government can manipulate in this case, but they can try to ignore the results, which is probably what'll happen. As for your question, the Electoral Council is wholly subservient to the government. They blocked a recall referendum on Nicolas Maduro last year, arbitrarily decided not to hold regional elections, and they started putting together a vote for a Constitutional Assembly within days when the government decided they wanted one without a public consultation, which goes against the law.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:06
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You guys realize that either Maduro is going to falsify the results or just ignore the results and continue to rule as a dictator, right?
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Jul 17, 2017 05:23
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Sergg posted:You guys realize that either Maduro is going to falsify the results or just ignore the results and continue to rule as a dictator, right? Again, they can't falsify the results of an election that didn't involve the Electoral Council and in which the government didn't participate at all. He can say that 5 people voted, but that doesn't make it true. Of course, he's going to ignore the results, but the goal was never to show them to him and hope he went "Oh well, I'll leave the keys to Miraflores under the mat". The goal, in this case, was to give the MUD a nice number they can wave around as they appoint a new Electoral Council and Supreme Court. They're basically going to set up a parallel government and use it to call for presidential elections while pressuring the military and courting international recognition with today's results. A lot of that gets lost in translation I think. Is it going to work? Who the gently caress knows, but it's worth a shot. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 05:29
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Labradoodle posted:Again, they can't falsify the results of an election that didn't involve the Electoral Council and in which the government didn't participate at all. He can say that 5 people voted, but that doesn't make it true. Of course, he's going to ignore the results, but the goal was never to show them to him and hope he went "Oh well, I'll leave the keys to Miraflores under the mat". Best of luck then.
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Jul 17, 2017 05:38
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JailTrump posted:The OAS should recognize the vote and it's result. I would be amazed if that collection of useless fence sitters even took official notice the vote happened.
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Jul 17, 2017 08:26
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A couple of things to keep in mind about yesterday's plebiscite result:
JailTrump posted:The OAS should recognize the vote and it's result. Mexico and Canada have already come out with strong statements recognizing the results of the election. I suspect that we'll see similar statements from the rest of the OAS minus the usual suspects (Bolivia and a handful of Caribbean nations). Yesterday was a significant victory for the people of Venezuela because they're now on record as soundly rejecting Maduro's Constituent Assembly. Whether or not governments officially recognize that is not terribly important, I think. The numbers speak for themselves. EDIT: I forgot to talk about the actual results! These were the three "yes" or "no" questions that people voted on: quote:1. Do you reject and disown the National Constituent Assembly as convened by Nicolas Maduro without first consulting the Venezuelan people? Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 11:52
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wheres moche? I want his hot take on undarmed imperialists cia agents being fired on by innocent chavistas just purging the capital class.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:58
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LeoMarr posted:wheres moche? I want his hot take on undarmed imperialists cia agents being fired on by innocent chavistas just purging the capital class. No see obviously the results of the plebiscite are fascist imperialist pig-dog lies fabricated by the C-Lie-A to justify the overthrow of the revolution's champion el presidente Maduro and in fact Venezuelans turned out in record numbers to demand the surrender of their rights to Eternal Bolivarian Sun King Maduro.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:30
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Wow you folks really seem to care about my opinion. Do you believe that I was expecting the outcome of the plebiscite to be significantly different than how it turned out in any way, or something? Edit: It also looks like the opposition is calling for a general strike on Thursday, despite fnox's earlier claim that it proved my ignorance on the topic, back when I brought it up as a potential strategy. Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 21:50
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Yeah and it's not going to do anything, just like I said, because PDVSA is not going on strike. Unless they call for some other, concise action there won't be a point in having people stay at home, because, again, if you knew one thing about Venezuela, you would know the government only needs oil revenues to stay afloat.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:12
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fnox posted:Yeah and it's not going to do anything, just like I said, because PDVSA is not going on strike. Unless they call for some other, concise action there won't be a point in having people stay at home, because, again, if you knew one thing about Venezuela, you would know the government only needs oil revenues to stay afloat. So does the Venezuelan opposition know nothing about Venezuela? Or are they lying about this being their plan? EDIT: The White House just released a statement from Trump (http://publicpool.kinja.com/subject-statement-from-president-donald-j-trump-1797000615) quote:Yesterday, the Venezuelan people again made clear that they stand for democracy, freedom, and rule of law. Yet their strong and courageous actions continue to be ignored by a bad leader who dreams of becoming a dictator. Bob le Moche fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 00:15
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Again, continuing to engage this idiot does nothing but derail the thread during what are most likely the most interesting weeks in Venezuela's history lately. The National Assembly is going to name a parallel Supreme Court and this week and wasting keystrokes on a troll isn't worth it.
Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 18, 2017 |
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Jul 18, 2017 00:22
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Thanks a lot Trump for giving Maduro ammo. Anyone following the situation knows it's better for American presidents to just shut up when it Comes to Venezuela. They just give Maduro ammo
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Jul 18, 2017 01:08
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Thanks a lot Trump for giving Maduro ammo. I agree with this. Figures like Maduro rely on positioning themselves as the line of defense against imperialism. If countries like the US stayed away and didn't meddle, it wouldn't work. Unfortunately imperialism very much is a thing, and these leaders keep being provided with new opportunities to justify their claims.
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Jul 18, 2017 01:20
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Bob le Moche posted:I agree with this. Figures like Maduro rely on positioning themselves as the line of defense against imperialism. Actually Maduro just relies on having a bunch of guns. Like a typical Latin American dictator.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:14
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I honestly want to follow in my fathers footsteps and fight in a latin civil war. he fought against Franco ill fight against Maduro the Bus driver
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Jul 18, 2017 05:28
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Bob le Moche posted:So does the Venezuelan opposition know nothing about Venezuela? Or are they lying about this being their plan? No, you're just a loving idiot who reads selectively and doesn't realise that's just one of the things that are planned. It's also only for 24 hours, it's not indefinite, you said this would make Maduro quit, yet there's more stuff scheduled for the day after. It's not like I'm in any way satisfied with this plan anyway, this is way too little at this point of the game. I want the MUD to get rid of UNT and other parties that are just serving as roadblocks, and just make the call for a new government.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:06
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There seems to be a bit of a change in the air--at least as far I can tell from so far away. We might be seeing the start of a new trend. The results of Sunday's plebiscite put it on record that a majority of Venezuelans reject Maduro's Constituent Assembly, and that they want a change in government. The question at the end of Sunday's vote, and the question that the country is grappling with right now, is: what now? The MUD announced on Monday its next steps, which include assigning new magistrates to the Supreme Court this week and a "civil strike" on Thursday. Assigning the new magistrates will result in Venezuela having two parallel Supreme Courts, which as I'm sure you can guess is going to be really messy. It looks like the civic strike is going to be about people staying home from work/school, but I think that we'll end up seeing protesters on the streets as well. These measures are part of a campaign that the MUD is calling "Zero Hour". Yesterday, Caracas large sections of Caracas were paralyzed by protesters who decided to take to the streets on their own initiative (i.e, without the MUD officially calling for protest action). They shut down major roads in Caracas like the Francisco Fajardo highway and the Francisco de Miranda Avenue: https://twitter.com/Mfajardo835/status/887370898558390272 https://twitter.com/stephaniet_24/status/887271377660764160 https://twitter.com/SegundaVisiOn/status/887281273416429568 https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/887304892678897664 The video below shows a dump truck emptying sand on the Francisco de Miranda avenue: https://twitter.com/jose_roa20/status/887274166080200710 There were also clashes between security forces and residents that lasted into the night: https://twitter.com/marisary/status/887457020953198592 The same thing appears to be happening today. There's even a public transport strike affecting 90% of the city. I'm seeing lots of pictures of barricades all around Caracas: https://twitter.com/Harley_Monse/status/887631109344940033 https://twitter.com/ReportenVivo/status/887642030595289089 https://twitter.com/PMT67/status/887645454346977280 If the events of yesterday and today are the start of a trend, it'll be an interesting one to keep on eye on for two reasons. First, the MUD has been more or less in control of protest events since April 1. The rhythm that has developed since then is that the MUD will call a protest at X time and Y place, and people show up. If people are going out to protest without the MUD's involvement, then this could signal a change in the nature of the protests. Second, and if the first point holds, we might be seeing a return of the guarimba ("barricade") as a widespread form of protest. The guarimba was arguably the defining characteristic of the 2014 protests, and that hasn't really been the case this time around. Guarimbas are a divisive topic in Venezuela, with some people swearing by them and others claiming that they're too disruptive. Whatever happens, the next 11 days are going to be intense. Lots of people aren't going to let the Constituent Assembly happening without a fight.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:07
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Seems like a good opportunity for OAS to reaffirm their support for a democratic Venezuela. And good luck.
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Jul 19, 2017 16:36
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Goos luck Venezuela.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:36
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The paro civico [roughly, "civic strike"] was successful in its goal of paralyzing the country yesterday. Most businesses were closed in lots of areas of the country, including Caracas. National Guard soldiers killed two protesters, bringing the death toll since April 1 to 96. The two fatalities were:
There were lots of empty streets in Caracas yesterday starting in the early morning: https://twitter.com/madeleintlSUR/status/887987378241097732 https://twitter.com/Neho17/status/887986299457728512 https://twitter.com/megagerentes/status/888001198996979712 Protesters in the Terrazas del Avila neighbourhood are watched by a National Guard phalanx: https://twitter.com/NTN24ve/status/888143399014072321 The two videos below show National Guard soldiers destroying what appear to be street vendor tents in El Paraiso, Caracas: https://twitter.com/RCTVenlinea/status/888081527917219841 https://twitter.com/OtroGabox/status/888088111204503552 The video below shows the moment that National Guard soldiers drove away with a journalist named Hector Caldera after arresting him: https://twitter.com/sntpvenezuela/status/888097309908774912 Maduro went on television yesterday to unleash a string of insults on National Assembly vice president Freddy Guevara. Guevara has been one of the leading figures of the opposition during this round of protests, and he's been the one to announce a lot of the protest events that have been taking place. In a speech that makes Donald Trump look like Shakespeare, Maduro said that once he gets to write the new Constitution via the Constituent Assembly, he'll put Guevara in prison. Maduro said: quote:When this stupid kid–he’s stupid, and I don’t say his name because it’s bad luck–he’s a stupid kid. His jail cell is ready. I’m only waiting for the Constituent [Assembly]. There’s a cell with his name on it, and that’s where that terrorist is going to go. Mozi posted:Seems like a good opportunity for OAS to reaffirm their support for a democratic Venezuela. OAS Secretary General Luis Almagro spoke at a US Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing yesterday or two days ago. I think you might be able to find it online. Anyway, I didn't watch it but I did read the highlights. It was a lot of the same. To be fair to Almagro, he's been arguably the single loudest voice against the Maduro regime on the international scale. The little Caribbean islands that we bought with oil don't want to abandon Maduro just yet, though.
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Jul 21, 2017 12:58
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So it seems like the opposition has summoned a 2-day strike starting Wednesday. My friend read about it in Zero Hora and there weren't many details.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:57
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Can anyone explain why /r/podemos is so full of loving tankies? https://np.reddit.com/r/podemos/comments/6p7ab5/qu%C3%A9_sinverg%C3%BCenzas_avisaron_a_la_derecha/
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Jul 24, 2017 20:25
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ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Can anyone explain why /r/podemos is so full of loving tankies? Like I said here a few months ago, there is no amount of Venezuelan suffering that is too much for the modern internet communist. I only wish they had the courage of their convictions.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:55
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The podemos people are mentally ill.
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Jul 24, 2017 22:07
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Did something happen to cause Venezuela to shut down their part of the internet ? It's going on 3+ days since Chuck has posted anything on the forums  .
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Jul 25, 2017 06:11
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MREBoy posted:Did something happen to cause Venezuela to shut down their part of the internet ? It's going on 3+ days since Chuck has posted anything on the forums Chuck must be busy recovering from his trip to Mexico. Not to say the Internet has been performing well these last weeks back home, though. People has been describing this week with a very Venezuelan Saying ("Preparen las Alpargatas, porque viene el Joropo", which could be localized as "Get your Best Dance Shoes ready, because we're gonna be Tapping a lot") about how rowdy things are getting the closer we get to the Constituyente next Sunday: The CNE decided this last Sunday to lift the Geographical limit on Voting Centers to "ensure voters can be able to exert their right to participate in the case they can't be at their designated center", aka. They're gonna try to dress up the participation rate under the excuse that suddenly a lot of people didn't decide to stay at their own towns with all these blockades and yet were desperate to vote. There has been a lot warnings against about buying stuff this weekend in Places with Finger Prints Checking Machines like Bicentenario Supermarkets or Farmatodo convenience stores (Because people can't help being  with some of the unscrupulous stuff the CNE has done in previous elections) .There's also a Two Days-long Lockdown starting on Thursday, and my parents are now planning to be stuck for Three days at Valencia's Arturo Michelena Airport to ensure my older sister don't miss her own flight to Mexico that same morning.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:28
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Best wishes to your sister, hope she makes it out safely
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Jul 25, 2017 12:49
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Like AstraSage said, I've been busy these past few days because I just got back from a month-long study trip to Mexico City (for the sake of clarification, I live safely and soundly in Toronto). I presented a paper that I've been working on for way too long on the Leopoldo Lopez trial at an academic conference there, and then spent the rest of my time making academic contacts at a couple of universities in the city. I'm entering the third year of a PhD in September, and my dissertation is on the policing of protests in Venezuela. If all goes well with all my other program requirements, I might start writing the dissertation next year. Like AstraSage also said, there's a real sense of suspense and expectation in the air this week because the Constituent Assembly vote is on Sunday. That means that the Constituent Assembly will likely begin to meet this week. The Constituent Assembly will meet as a supra-constitutional body, which means that any decision that it makes cannot be challenged by any individual or state institution. The assembly might decide, for example, to cancel the December regional elections, or to outlaw all political parties except the PSUV, and that would all be perfectly legal. The lock-down or "civil strike" (paro civico in Spanish) begins at 6:00 AM on Wednesday and will run for 48 hours. The opposition is asking everyone to either stay home from work during those two days or to go out and protest against the government. The paro civico last week was really successful, but that one lasted only one day. Another reason why this week feel so suspenseful is because there is going to be a massive march in Caracas on Friday. Two days ago the vice president of the National Assembly, Freddy Guevara, held a press conference to talk about the destination of the march, and he said that it was going to be "where you think it is". That sounds to me like the destination will be the Miraflores Palace, and that he didn't want to give it all away just yet. If that is true, then Friday is going to be a historic day because the opposition purposely doesn't march on MIraflores because it is seen as a direct attack on presidential power. In the U.S. there are lots of protests in front of the White House all the time, but in Venezuela protesting near or at Miraflores usually leads to presidents getting put on helicopters and flown away. In any case, we'll have to wait for official confirmation from the opposition later this week, but there is a real sense of do-or-die right now with the Constituent Assembly looming so close. The protest event for yesterday was called pancartazo (really hard to translate, but basically the name means "Put big signs up everywhere"). The goal of the protest was for Venezuelans to make signs rejecting the Maduro regime and the Constituent Assembly, and to put them up in voting centres around the country. https://twitter.com/TomasGuanipa/status/889490914170859521 Below, more signs at a voting centre in the Chacao neighbourhood of the capital. Some of the signs read “stop killing your people”, “Maduro is Venezuela’s disgrace”, and “We want a free Venezuela”: https://twitter.com/unidadvenezuela/status/889517406355423233 https://twitter.com/unidadvenezuela/status/889534438446706688 And in Guanta, Anzoategui state, protesters unfurled a large sign across a road that read “Maduro, you have only a little time left”: https://twitter.com/RicharGuardiola/status/889493715152248833 The video below shows soldiers deployed to Caracas as part of the Plan Republica ripping protest signs off the gates of a voting centre in the neighbourhood of Las Palmas, Caracas while onlookers yell insults at them: https://twitter.com/ReporteYa/status/889511426024407040 The Plan Republica is an initiative launched by the regime last week that will see thousands of soldiers deployed across the country to ensure "safety and peace" in the country during the Constituent Assembly vote. ThisIsWhyTrumpWon posted:Can anyone explain why /r/podemos is so full of loving tankies?
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Jul 25, 2017 13:31
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I happened to be hospitalised for the past week due to a complicated appendectomy, which is why I haven't been active either. My family is making basically a break for it, they're leaving on short notice either this week or the next and moving to Murcia, Spain. My dad hopes he can transfer his medical license shortly, or at least find work in the meanwhile, my mom is gonna see if she can maybe find work although being a lawyer by trade she doesn't have that many transferable skills. They're kind of relying on whatever money I can send them right now, as we don't really have any family there, just acquaintances and some old family friends. They did manage to find a trustworthy "manager" to get their paperwork fast-tracked through the otherwise completely insurmountable pile of red tape they have to get through. This is basically it, though. July 30 marks a breaking point for the country. Whether the opposition succeeds before then, or not, will dictate the future of an entire generation.
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Jul 25, 2017 14:59
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