|
Ytlaya posted:Uh, pretty sure those people are for real, unless you're counting "trolling" in this case as "expressing a genuine opinion that gets other people riled up." I'm not sure why you would assume that pro-Israeli posters on the internet are necessary fake-posting, given there are plenty of those people in real life. I just sort of presume that people who have heinous opinions on here are doing it because this is a comedy forum and they're trying to be funny in an internet edgelord sort of way.
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
Ytlaya posted:But the way Israelis are killing the Palestinians is just more civilized. There's just something different about a Palestinian killing an Israeli that really riles you up! I wonder what that thing could be. The difference is Deus Vult
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 01:08
|
|
|
Regarde Aduck posted:That's just his opinion as an alien. All of his opinions are alien opinions. He obviously can't gander simple human feats such as compassion and empathy
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 07:01
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:I just sort of presume that people who have heinous opinions on here are doing it because this is a comedy forum and they're trying to be funny in an internet edgelord sort of way. if that's gaussiancopula's gimmick, he's kept it very consistent for a very long time
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 07:12
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:I just sort of presume that people who have heinous opinions on here are doing it because this is a comedy forum and they're trying to be funny in an internet edgelord sort of way. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 14:03
|
|
|
The distinction that you need to keep in mind here is the same one pro-israeli types try to make about palestinians themselves/arabs in general, in that they say one thing in hebrew to their brethren and something entirely different to western/european audiences.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 16:21
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:The distinction that you need to keep in mind here is the same one pro-israeli types try to make about palestinians themselves/arabs in general, in that they say one thing in hebrew to their brethren and something entirely different to western/european audiences. I dunno, they seem pretty explicit with their terrible opinions regardless of who they're talking about. Also assuming anyone who is pro-Israel must presumably be a Jewish Israeli is either bordering on antisemitic (the "secretly speaking stuff in Hebrew to their brethren" sorta sets off my internal "something is problematic about this" meter*) or extremely naive (because there are countless non-Jewish Americans who are vehemently pro-Israel/anti-Palestinians). *I don't necessary think you're antisemitic or anything, but I would be careful with language like that. I generally think accusations of antisemitism with respect to the I/P issue are nonsense or overblown, but certain language (usually stuff that focuses on the concept of Israelis/Jews being a group unified by blood, like your use of "brethren" there) still raises questions.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:17
|
|
|
Netanyahu is pretty much the only one that bothers to tailor his messaging in accordance to the audience. The rest of the seedy brethren just speak their mind rather bluntly. Bennet still has the video about his bantustanization plan on his youtube channel, what do you think he's hiding? He just had an interview a couple of months ago on Al Jazeera where he said "this land is ours because the bible says so".
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 17:20
|
|
|
I think everyone in this thread, even the shitheads, admit that Israel's behavior is morally indefensible; so instead they just try to argue "but <OTHER_COUNTRY> did it too and got away with it!" and "but Palestinians are not impeccable innocent angels either".
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 18:10
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:I dunno, they seem pretty explicit with their terrible opinions regardless of who they're talking about. Dude you're cool and all but you're really overanalyzing what I said here, which is essentially, these sorts of opinions are extremely common among genocidal settler fucks and although you don't have to go far at all in uncovering how they really feel about palestinians in israel/the territories, when it comes to westerners they're either treated like a mutant child and kept out of sight in a cellar or they straight up lie about it like that fat gently caress danny danon who had the nerve to actually say he and the settler movement respect the national aspirations of the palestinians on an episode of head to head on al-jazeera. Ultramega fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 26, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Disinterested posted:The last time the US threatened to cut aid the Israelis ran breathlessly to the negotiating table. Israel is the US's largest foreign donee and the US is by far its biggest donor. In the last 60 years the donations amount to over $250 bn. The US pays 1/4 of the Israeli defence budget (and Israel spends more on its national defence than Iran, Canada, Spain, Turkey, Pakistan, Poland or Mexico, 6% of its GDP - the only countries who expend more per capita on their own defence are Saudi Arabia and Singapore) and provides it with almost all of its high end equipment. Aid to Israel, Jordan, and Egypt is a bribe for them to keep peace with each other. I think it should all be canceled, but as long as the deal exists, the money should stay in place for its intended purpose and not be tweaked, similar to how we shouldn't claim Iran is out of compliance on the nuclear deal just because it's doing other bad things. Ultramega posted:The really obvious tell with the trolling accounts (and in fact the people who attempt to appear like they actually give a poo poo about palestinian rights like kim jong il) is the clinical method in which they try to conflate other historical injustices with some facet of the palestine/israel conflict either recent or distant. It's insulting to even entertain such notions and, that's the point. What did I get wrong?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2017 13:28
|
|
|
Well first of all you got the year the talks were held wrong, but that's a minor point compared to your main assertion that the talks came very close to some sort of breakthrough in the I/P gridlock but they fell through because of palestinian intransience. I mean this whole exchange between you and team overhead smash is literally the explanation behind your red text. This isn't even that hard to look up because all this happened in THIS iteration of the thread. I didn't even have to go thread necroing to look for this poo poo. These are the posts in question where team overhead smash called you on your bullshit https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=102626&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post461798371 https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=102626&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post461849809 And of course you pulled a disappearing act instead of trying to challenge any of these points that were brought up. See also this post specifically https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=102626&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post462159914 Ultramega fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jul 27, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2017 14:11
|
|
|
Is it just me or do those all link to the same team overhead smash post quoting (ugh) MIGF?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
They're quotes from kim jong.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2017 22:08
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:Well first of all you got the year the talks were held wrong, but that's a minor point compared to your main assertion that the talks came very close to some sort of breakthrough in the I/P gridlock but they fell through because of palestinian intransience. When did I get the year the talks wrong? I've known they were in early 2001 for over a decade. I was accused of getting the years of the intifada wrong when I did not, I was referring to the peak of the violence of the intifada in 2002. TOS completely misrepresented my position. I methodically responded to his points and addressed all of them. As he significantly lied about what I said or misunderstood it, after I refuted those points and restated what I actually said, there was no need to continue engaged with those fictitious strawmen. I did not say they fell through because of Palestinian intransience, I said the violence that followed afterwards was a shame because of how close they got. The custom title is as incoherent as his preposterous argument. I have said that Camp David can be blamed more on the Palestinians. That is not to say that it was a perfect offer, but Taba was significantly better, and there was further progress made under Olmert. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jul 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
Actually what you got wrong was a quote by bill clinton that you claimed was from 2000, when it was from a year later in relation to palestinian violence. That's a theme with your arguments I've noticed. It's always the palestinians who are at fault, in one form or another. Whether directly or indirectly it's always the palestinians fault that some peace talk fell through or some kid got shot at a checkpoint for running his mouth or something. Like seriously all of this is here right in this thread about 50 or 60 pages back for anyone who has a mind to trek through this poo poo field of a thread and read your goalpost moving. I'm not even interested in you specifically because the content of your actual arguments are not original in any way, it's just that you're fronting like you systematically responded to each of his points when in fact you got hosed.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:Dude you're cool and all but you're really overanalyzing what I said here, which is essentially, these sorts of opinions are extremely common among genocidal settler fucks and although you don't have to go far at all in uncovering how they really feel about palestinians in israel/the territories, when it comes to westerners they're either treated like a mutant child and kept out of sight in a cellar or they straight up lie about it like that fat gently caress danny danon who had the nerve to actually say he and the settler movement respect the national aspirations of the palestinians on an episode of head to head on al-jazeera. Like I said in my post, I don't think you're antisemitic; I'm just saying to be careful with that sort of language (and in your original post you didn't specifically mentioned settlers). If I weren't familiar with your posting and just heard someone say something like on the street, it would raise some flags.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:When did I get the year the talks wrong? I've known they were in early 2001 for over a decade. I was accused of getting the years of the intifada wrong when I did not, I was referring to the peak of the violence of the intifada in 2002. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=40745&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post461748947 You talked about how " Israel came really, really close to withdrawing from settlements in 1996, 2000, and 2007". This doesn't match up with the date of the talks you then talked about and claimed almost lead to a withdrawal (Taba was in 2001) or the date of any key talks that would have caused Israel to withdraw (The nearest to 1996 was Oslo 2 in 1996 which doesn't meet the criteria or nearly resultign in an end to settlements anyway). Of course all this was explained to you at the time. quote:TOS completely misrepresented my position. I methodically responded to his points and addressed all of them. As he significantly lied about what I said or misunderstood it, after I refuted those points and restated what I actually said, there was no need to continue engaged with those fictitious strawmen. Nah, you're really poo poo at responding to points and the idea that you methodically responded to all points is ridiculous. I mean you literally got probated for being a disingenous shithead who was refusing to engage with my arguments when I was putting in to the effort to respond comprehensively. quote:]I did not say they fell through because of Palestinian intransience, I said the violence that followed afterwards was a shame because of how close they got. The custom title is as incoherent as his preposterous argument. I have said that Camp David can be blamed more on the Palestinians. That is not to say that it was a perfect offer, but Taba was significantly better, and there was further progress made under Olmert. The red title text comes about based on this post. You explicitly said "You're a loving piece of poo poo by the way for calling me a racist when I am quoting Bill Clinton to the letter" despite not quoting Clinton at all! You'll note in the very same post you also try to place the blame on the Palestinians, directly contradicting your claim above. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jul 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:37
|
|
|
Hahahaha, I remember that Bill Clinton pseudo-quote. IIRC he got bizarrely defensive about it, despite it being a situation where one could easily just say "whoops, I made a mistake with that quote."
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:41
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Hahahaha, I remember that Bill Clinton pseudo-quote. IIRC he got bizarrely defensive about it, despite it being a situation where one could easily just say "whoops, I made a mistake with that quote." Yeah he started saying how we should have googled for quotes for Bill Clinton myself, because that's apparently how quotes work - you say you're quoting someone, don't provide any actual quotes, insult people for pointing out you haven't provided a quote and then expect other people to find quotations for you. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 07:53
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:Like I said in my post, I don't think you're antisemitic; I'm just saying to be careful with that sort of language (and in your original post you didn't specifically mentioned settlers). If I weren't familiar with your posting and just heard someone say something like on the street, it would raise some flags. Fair enough, point taken.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2017 14:16
|
|
|
Ultramega posted:Actually what you got wrong was a quote by bill clinton that you claimed was from 2000, when it was from a year later in relation to palestinian violence. What you're saying is not true. quote:That's a theme with your arguments I've noticed. It's always the palestinians who are at fault, in one form or another. Whether directly or indirectly it's always the palestinians fault that some peace talk fell through or some kid got shot at a checkpoint for running his mouth or something. I haven't talked about any checkpoint violence. I think unfortunately, they had an instragient leader for a while in Arafat who bore significant responsibility for the peace process failing, just as Netanyahu does now. It's about failings of individual leaders, not collective guilt. quote:I'm not even interested in you specifically because the content of your actual arguments are not original in any way, it's just that you're fronting like you systematically responded to each of his points when in fact you got hosed. What you're doing is somewhere between gaslighting and cheerleading. team overhead smash posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=40745&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post461748947 2000-2001 was a continuous process which I repeatedly explained. quote:Nah, you're really poo poo at responding to points and the idea that you methodically responded to all points is ridiculous. I mean you literally got probated for being a disingenous shithead who was refusing to engage with my arguments when I was putting in to the effort to respond comprehensively. I methodically responded to every point that actually engaged with what I said. You made up a bunch of strawmen lies that I never claimed, and after destroying them, I refused to engage further. That decision was loving embarrassing and a direct contradiction of forum rules. quote:The red title text comes about based on this post. You explicitly said "You're a loving piece of poo poo by the way for calling me a racist when I am quoting Bill Clinton to the letter" despite not quoting Clinton at all! I never mentioned ethnicity or race in any way, and I cited numerous administration officials, including the fact that not all of them shared this view, but it was the majority. You hand-waved and said "nuh uh." You're a smear artist who goes for ad hominem attacks due to your utter failure to actually construct a logical argument. quote:You'll note in the very same post you also try to place the blame on the Palestinians, directly contradicting your claim above. Once again either an utter failure of reading or deliberate obfuscation or lying. I cited a third party who blamed the PA's leadership.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
"I was quoting bill clinton to the letter!" you didn't quote bill clinton "you're a smear artist who goes for ad hominem attacks due to your utter failure to actually construct a logical argument"
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 17:29
|
|
|
It's as if you don't realise we can, y'know, read your posts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 19:53
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:
Just like every other pro-genocide troll you shut up or run away when people actually point out the massive inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your posts only to come gallivanting back a few weeks later hoping people have forgotten.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 20:35
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:What you're doing is somewhere between gaslighting and cheerleading 
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 21:01
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:I methodically responded to every point that actually engaged with what I said. You made up a bunch of strawmen lies that I never claimed, and after destroying them, I refused to engage further. That decision was loving embarrassing and a direct contradiction of forum rules. A quick glance at your probations tells me everything I need to know about how seriously you take the forum rules.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 21:21
|
|
|
Clashes Erupt After Israel Police Shoots, Kills Jaffa Teenager Jaffa residents burn tires in street clashes with police after shooting. Local lawyer accuses police of 'cold-blooded murder' out of 'grudge against Arab minority' quote:
This is an interesting literal translation by Haaretz: quote:Attorney Muhammad Adri of Jaffa's Muslim Council strongly criticized the police. "Water arrived into the soul of everything that is related to the conduct of the police in Jaffa against the Arabs," he said in a conversation with Haaretz. הגיעו מים עד נפש is a Hebrew phrase meaning "[situation] has reached a boiling point". I wonder if they'll fix it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
I don't see how they can possibly fix it. These guys should sync up with the protesters in Petah Tikva.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 23:42
|
|
|
Miftan posted:I don't see how they can possibly fix it. These guys should sync up with the protesters in Petah Tikva. I meant the poor translation.  Edit: They did! quote:“From our point of view, this is the straw that broke the camel’s back because we suffer from it every day," said Adreie. "The police in Jaffa are perceived as a criminal body that conducts criminal acts against the residents and not as a body that aims to impose order and tranquility in the streets.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Haha woops! I mean I hope they fix the whole apartheid thing and their lovely treatment of Israeli Arabs but at least the nominal liberal paper isn't loving up translations anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2017 23:50
|
|
|
Sorry guys, I'm going to respond to KJ2. I promise this'll be the only one though. I'll keep at it for a while when it's about the I/P conflict, but a meta argument about whether he's a racist idiot or not doesn't hold my interest so much.Kim Jong Il posted:2000-2001 was a continuous process which I repeatedly explained. Feel free to link the time you made that argument. Also as was explained multiple times (and that's not even including the times I linked back to those posts because you refused to respond) that argument wouldn't even make sense. Your argument was about how a few American negotiators working with Bill Clinton are completely infallible and they made claims which supposedly backed you up (although you never managed to produce these). The problem is that the Taba negotiations happened in early 2001 when Bill Clinton was out of office and didn't even happen under the auspices of the USA, being hosted by Mubarak and run the EU. While you you make claims of continuity between just about anything if you're willing to stretch far enough, there was no continuity that was in anyway relevant to the point you were trying to make. quote:I methodically responded to every point that actually engaged with what I said. You made up a bunch of strawmen lies that I never claimed, and after destroying them, I refused to engage further. That decision was loving embarrassing and a direct contradiction of forum rules. The mental image you have of yourself is really telling. The reason you got probated is because you argue like a child. "You made up a bunch of strawmen lies that I never claimed, and after destroying them" is basically the issue with your argument. Continually just saying "uh-huh, I'm super right and the other person is super wrong" isn't actually a valid argument and while I'm sure it must do wonders for your self-esteem judging by how you think you destroy people's arguments with it, it just makes you look dumb when you respond like that to actual evidence. If the other person misrepresents your arguments you need to show how but saying how you're totally right doesn't do that, especially if they've made comprehensive arguments rebutting the few actual points you've made and you just continue to spout of nonsense about how you're right anyway. I mean you even have the blatant lie of "I refused to engage further" when you literally got probated for replying to me with yet another low effort this post[/quote] and even [url=https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=40745&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post462156878]explicitly stated how you weren't going to drop it at the time. You certainly continued to engage, just not in any meaningful way. quote:I never mentioned ethnicity or race in any way, and I cited numerous administration officials, including the fact that not all of them shared this view, but it was the majority. You hand-waved and said "nuh uh." You're a smear artist who goes for ad hominem attacks due to your utter failure to actually construct a logical argument. This seems like a quite a non-sequiter and I can't even tell the point you're trying to make (aside from from the usual unsupported whining about how you're great and any argument against you is wrong). Allow me to explain. You were called out on being racist. Although I can't be bothered to go back and check the chronology of exactly which ones you'd done at the time, around that point it was things like for instance after you argued that Palestinian violence isn't motivated by a desire for freedom but because they're just simply genocidal, which I pointed out this was racist. And you stated that racist settlers who have a hatred for all Arabs/Muslims (which is pretty much a dictionary loving definition of racism) should be viewed with sympathy,and got weirdly defensive over the idea that such blatant racism qualifies as being racist. Lastly your crazy conspiracy theories of evil arabs and arab supporters coming up with plans to slaughter all the Jews by telling people not to buy soda-streams and homous is kinda a blatant giveaway. But anyway, you were called out on being a racist shitheel. You responded by saying this was unfair, because you'd quoted Bill Clinton to the letter. The problem of course is that a) You had not in any way quoted Bill Clinton and b) why the gently caress would quoting Bill Clinton mean you're not racist? This has just been compounded by the weird defences you try and make to get out of it, like this one here. quote:Once again either an utter failure of reading or deliberate obfuscation or lying. I cited a third party who blamed the PA's leadership. Dude, in the very link I posted it specifically states [url=https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3754814&userid=40745&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post461788118 "the Palestinians"[/url] rather than "the PA's leadership" so you're outright wrong. Feel free admit to being "either an utter failure of reading or deliberate obfuscation or lying." Also despite the attempt to try and turn this into you 'just saying' that some people believe this, you specifically presented their opinion as valid and believable as it was meant to rebutt my previous post (despite you not actually linking to any of these claims or explaining even how they were meant to be rebutting the particulars of my argument, most of which you ignored.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 00:21
|
|
|
As explained months ago, I cited one of the most well known quotes in the history of the conflict, and most (but not all) of his team made similar comments. The fact that you repeatedly denied what's a very plain, standard interpretation of the comments (they've been digested and discussed too many times to count by commentators, and Clinton has repeatedly made similar verbal comments) left my jaw on the floor with incredulity. I wanted to see how far you'd go. I suspect you're actually just being disingenuous, because you first deny my plain interpretation of the comments, and then dismiss them as biased Americans. Can't be both. As proof of your failure to those who aren't familiar with how well known this is: quote:When he left, I still had no idea what Arafat was going to do. His body language said no, but the deal was so good I couldn’t believe anyone would be foolish enough to let it go. Barak wanted me to come to the region, but I wanted Arafat to say yes to the Israelis on the big issues embodied in my parameters first. In December the parties had met at Bolling Air Force Base for talks that didn’t succeed because Arafat wouldn’t accept the parameters that were hard for him. I've responded to anything that engages with what that I've actually said. You clearly and consistently respond with strawmen that have absolutely nothing to do with the argument I've made. You repeatedly fail to respond with an iota of substance, and instead resort to smears and lies. Yes, I got angry when you called me a racist and, as is your pattern displayed here, completely lie about the contents of what you're linking. You are chronically unable to tell the truth and argue in good faith.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 12:41
|
|
|
As others have pointed out, that narrative is absurd because it implies the terms of the deal were fair and just, and that Arafat turned it down out of pride or stupidity. That's an obvious lie when you actually look at the final terms. You generally avoid talking about the actual substance of the talks (or anything in general), in favor of Arafat did 9/28 conspiracy theories.
|
|
#
?
Aug 1, 2017 13:05
|
|
|
Jordan MP challenges firebrand Israeli MK to a duel Oren Hazan responds that he’ll be at Allenby Bridge border crossing at 10 a.m. to make Yahya Al-Saud ‘an offer he can’t refuse’ 
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
Going by the article they're both assholes. Pretty much no bad outcome to the two of them fighting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 00:42
|
|
|
team overhead smash posted:Going by the article they're both assholes. Pretty much no bad outcome to the two of them fighting. Except that it'll be used to inspire further violence on both sides.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
The winner should be able to tie a rope around the loser's ankle and drag their corpse with a car and parade the body around the streets of the victor's capital, Achilles' style.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
team overhead smash posted:Going by the article they're both assholes. Pretty much no bad outcome to the two of them fighting. If they fight, likely one of them will win, emboldening his followers.
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 07:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
i fought in the old revolution on the side of the ghost and the king of course we were very young and i thought that we were winning i can't pretend i still feel very much like singing as they carry the bodies away into this furnace i ask you now to venture you whom i cannot betray
|
|
#
?
Aug 2, 2017 10:01
|
|
