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Nobody is saying the military-industrial complex is good. They're just saying that being an organization that proudly denies membership to trans people makes it worse. Plus no matter how horrible the military-industrial complex is it will always be an important economic opportunity for people with limited options. Things can be bad for the world overall while still providing some service and opportunity to people in the US, who, by the way, have no involvement in high level military decision making at all and so shouldn't suffer or be held accountable for the decisions of top brass.
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Jul 26, 2017 15:42
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Gnossiennes posted:Thanks, PPJ. You're doing the lord's work. I tweetdumped here; I'm not crossposting because it is absolutely massive.
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Jul 26, 2017 15:44
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I don't want to step outside my lane, and I'm completely with anti-imperialist criticism of the military and its veneration's effect on our culture. But acceptance into the military is one of the biggest ways the federal government defines who is an accepted group and who is the out-group. It's a major signal in our culture, and publicly barring trans people is a direct message to Trump's supporters.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:10
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:I don't want to join the army.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:27
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Prester Jane posted:Gay people serving in the military is frequently cited as a huge reason for the social transformation w/r/t gay rights. That path has now been squarely forbidden to transpeople and purposefully to avoid transpeople from acquiring the same social acceptance through service that gay people did. DADT was only overturned in 2011, this is bullshit military cheerleading that has nothing to do with reality. People as an average of the US population were mostly okay with gays long before that. Also I would highly question the 20% figure because it's loving impossible to get a clear picture of how big exactly the US trans population is due to the sheer amount of us falling through the cracks in terms of how we handle transition. That said yes it opens the way to more discrimination. I still won't pretend the military industrial complex needs to be cheerled more than it already is because of that. Also for the record, the economic draft is at this point largely a myth, the full time military has requirements that basically culled it. The only place that still kinda qualifies for the economic draft is the NG, which due to intense recruitment efforts in that has basically reversed which side is the good old boys club and which side is the relatively poor rabble. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 16:40
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Senju Kannon posted:i personally can't bring myself to muster up much outrage over not being allowed to serve in america's military Yeah, I was trying to reenlist, this was my one chance to actually have a semi decent standard of living and to get my surgery. Go gently caress yourself.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:46
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Thalantos posted:Yeah, I was trying to reenlist, this was my one chance to actually have a semi decent standard of living and to get my surgery. Is it really worth potentially having to murder poor people by orders to do that.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:48
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RagnarokAngel posted:Is it really worth potentially having to murder poor people by orders to do that. Hmm.....let's see.....I actually withheld shooting folks that I could have in the ROE because I'm not a bloodthirsty savage. The one time I almost accidentally shot a civilian family because my superior was an idiot, I almost killed myself, I still feel suicidal about it sometimes. gently caress you, too.
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Jul 26, 2017 16:52
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Hope youre getting therapy for it, real talk 
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Jul 26, 2017 16:59
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Days like this I wish I drank and fully understand why many people do.
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Jul 26, 2017 17:01
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I'm currently trying to help a trans vet friend who's worse off than ever so I'm not sure how universal the military is as an economic escape hatch. It seems like they promise a lot but don't always pull through, especially when the vets have trauma.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:22
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The SecDef is also out of the country right now and it seems pretty clear that this is all from the White House, not the Pentagon. Wonder if the Pentagon's going to fight back on this.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:24
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I want the endless stream of ghouls coming out in support of transgender people when it's about getting more warm bodies for the forever war to end also. Like yes I get it, it's bad for trans people in service, but considering the state of life for most civilian trans people (the vast majority of us), acting like now trans people matter is just going to make me disgusted. Where are you when it's not about soldiers? Oh yeah, you're voting for bathroom laws.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:48
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Agnosticnixie posted:I want the endless stream of ghouls coming out in support of transgender people when it's about getting more warm bodies for the forever war to end also. Like yes I get it, it's bad for trans people in service, but considering the state of life for most civilian trans people (the vast majority of us), acting like now trans people matter is just going to make me disgusted. What the gently caress even is this? Who supports trans people in the military and bathroom laws?
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Jul 26, 2017 19:55
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there wolf posted:What the gently caress even is this? Who supports trans people in the military and bathroom laws? I would suspect most of the republicans who are acting like this is a bridge too far (e.g. Hatch who abstained on the DADT repeal and votes party line on LGBT issues) Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 20:02
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This being D&D, I don't want to just post a bunch of angry crap (which I certainly can and have). So I will ask some questions. Did anyone believe Trump when he said he was going to be a great friend to LGBT? Did anyone believe that he felt anything other than indifference for LGBT? Is anyone surprised that he throws transgender people under the bus to score some political points because his party is revolting? What are the chances that the military will stand up to Trump and tell him that actually, transgender people in the military aren't a big deal and they are cool with it? I'm transgender and have a job where I was allowed to transition, even supported by my co-workers. It wasn't required by law and I could have been fired over it since I work for a company in an at-will state. I am incredibly fortunate to have been where I was when I was. So many transgender people are abandoned by family and friends and lose everything. Joining the military is a chance to take back their life and finally feel like a real person, not a shadow, not a caricature. Taking that away will not help anyone and it will absolutely cause the deaths of more transgender people.
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Jul 26, 2017 20:13
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Aleph Null posted:This being D&D, I don't want to just post a bunch of angry crap (which I certainly can and have). So I will ask some questions. People who voted for him were shocked that he wanted to go ahead with dumpstering the ACA, so yes, I'm sure the Log Cabin Republicans are completely flabbergasted by this development.
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Jul 26, 2017 20:28
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Aleph Null posted:Did anyone believe Trump when he said he was going to be a great friend to LGBT? https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner/status/890254837257981952
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Jul 26, 2017 20:45
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Agnosticnixie posted:I would suspect most of the republicans who are acting like this is a bridge too far (e.g. Hatch who abstained on the DADT repeal and votes party line on LGBT issues) Alright, I haven't seen a Republican that's doing this, but I haven't exactly gone looking either, so I'll take your word on it. And there are a ton of people who thought Trump was going to be a friend to the queer community because he was nothing more than a cypher for "I want whatever I don't like to stop" which meant different things to everyone. My aunt was really supportive about my top surgery two weeks ago, and she's still posting pro-Trump poo poo because there's no relation between the two in her brain.
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Jul 26, 2017 21:31
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Rand Corp did an analysis in 2015-16 on the impact of medical requirements for trans service personnel.quote:To determine the budgetary implications of gender transition–related treatment for So there's no financial basis to oppose it at all, and the DoD spends more on toilet seats.
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Jul 26, 2017 21:38
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its cool to hate the military and all but a lot of transpeople just lost their only access to healthcare and a home and you should absolutely be mad about that
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Jul 26, 2017 21:39
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Went to Health Clinic and they had this cool display up. Just a lot of political cartoons about Aids and comics dedicated to HIV awareness through out the years    
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Jul 26, 2017 21:50
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I can't imagine the head of the joint chiefs of staff is very happy right now considering his pro-LGBT views.
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Jul 26, 2017 23:33
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AlexJade posted:I can't imagine the head of the joint chiefs of staff is very happy right now considering his pro-LGBT views. Also, it seems to just be Trump tweeting about it. Wouldn't be surprised if the military's leadership decides yeah no this isn't happening. A couple of my relatives who serve in the military (and calm down, Senju, they serve in parts of the military that put them at zero risk of being told to gun down poor people) assured the rest of our family after the election that orders can't be issued over twitter and the military community was dubious whether Trump would be competent enough to make and carry through any substantial decisions regarding the military.
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Jul 26, 2017 23:37
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did trump give an actual order or did he just tweet something? are we considering twitter as a medium for issuing government policy now?
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Jul 27, 2017 00:16
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AriadneThread posted:did trump give an actual order or did he just tweet something? nobody knows anything for sure yet.
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Jul 27, 2017 00:21
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AriadneThread posted:did trump give an actual order or did he just tweet something? So far the only thing has been tweets. There is a non-zero chance he just kind of forgets to implement this policy but I would not dare to hope. This was pushed by heritage foundation Republicans and they will likely bug him until something happens.
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Jul 27, 2017 00:24
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https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/890350260551340039 https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/890350925403107328
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Jul 27, 2017 00:28
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This could be useful to the military issue. It's from someone who was in during DADT, and all the bullshit that happened when someone got caught up with that: https://twitter.com/SaundraMitchell/status/890219554705735681 In short, even if you're the biggest marxoteen to ever marxoteen and hate the military for being the imperialist war machine, what's going to happen to trans people in the military is going to be ugly. They're going to get Less Than Honorable discharges, which not only fucks up your ability to get any of the services and benefits we expect when someone says they served, and they get a big red mark that every employer sees that might as well say FELON. And because there was already orders in place to support transitioning people, the Trumpies know exactly who to drum out of the service. It would be like repealing DADT and then three months later switching tracks giving general discharges to everyone who came out. Worst part is this is whiplashy as poo poo, and will get a bunch of backlash from the upper staff. The military is change-averse IME (no service, but 17 years as a DoD civilian), but the thing they are even more than change-averse is chaos-averse. Once you've set a path, you don't change on a whim. It fucks with trying to actually plan 10, 15, 20 years into the future and applies to this and all other large scale policy initiatives. I also agree that repealing DADT didn't help much with gay acceptance because it happened so late. But integration did wonders for racial equality because it was on the leading edge. Trans acceptance in the military would be more like racial equality because it's on the leading edge instead of trailing behind. Yeah, you get smart-assed comments at the moment, but nothing creates empathy quite like shared struggle. That's half the reason why the bigots are fighting this. If they lose here, full acceptance is pushed left on the timeline, to the point they may have to accept it in their lifetimes.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:09
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Party Plane Jones posted:https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/890350260551340039 Trump's base will interpret this as meaning that LGBT people no longer have any civil rights. In practice this interpretation will be functionally correct for a disturbingly large portion of the country. If you are LGBT you will very shortly only have rights if you have robust local protections and non-bigoted police enforcing said protections. For everyone else its the jungle.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:11
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rkajdi posted:This could be useful to the military issue. It's from someone who was in during DADT, and all the bullshit that happened when someone got caught up with that: https://twitter.com/SaundraMitchell/status/890219554705735681 This kind of thing is why I expect that the military will fight the issue. Would hardly be the first time Trump's announced a brave new world and the establishment has hold him to shut up while they get on with the real world. As I understand it, the military's leadership does not like Trump in general. He's volatile, indecisive, and does not present the kind of clear vision of America's role in the world and how the military will be employed that the military likes to see in civilian leadership.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:14
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mandatory lesbian posted:its cool to hate the military and all but a lot of transpeople just lost their only access to healthcare and a home and you should absolutely be mad about that
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Jul 27, 2017 05:44
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So what does this mean for trans people currently in active service? The commander in chief just told them that their services are no longer required...do they just all walk out and go home?
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Jul 27, 2017 11:19
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jivjov posted:So what does this mean for trans people currently in active service? The commander in chief just told them that their services are no longer required...do they just all walk out and go home? All he's done is fire off some tweets. Nothing official has actually been done to my knowledge.
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Jul 27, 2017 11:55
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jivjov posted:So what does this mean for trans people currently in active service? The commander in chief just told them that their services are no longer required...do they just all walk out and go home? Again, read the tweet listing I had above. If it's like DADT (which is the best case scenario in the current climate), they get drummed out with a less than honorable discharge. So a big red mark for future employment and no access to any of the things that you get from prior service, much less being a veteran. For reference, everyone currently serving is considered as such by the government due to GWOT. I short, it's ugly as hell and going to screw over a lot of good servicepeople in favor of giving red meat to the Trump voter base. The only hope is that the Joint Chiefs tell him how dumb an idea it is to do that, but good luck to get Trump to listen and if he does listen to not just gently caress with the military out of spite.
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Jul 27, 2017 13:23
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Fortunately, given that the military is the country's largest employer of trans people, Trump's current press secretary said that this is all Trump tweeting and there's no actual plan in place to remove trans people from the military nor has Trump talked with the Secretary of Defense or other senior military leaders about implementing this. Fingers crossed the establishment will fight Trump off.
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Jul 27, 2017 14:12
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-military-transgender-ban-joint-chiefs/index.html US Joint Chiefs blindsided by Trump's transgender ban How does one get to be so bad at things?
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Jul 27, 2017 19:59
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RagnarokAngel posted:http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-military-transgender-ban-joint-chiefs/index.html By being incompetent and assuming that "I'm the president!" equals "My will be done without question!" Trump wants to be president, not to be the president. The onset of dementia does not help.
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Jul 27, 2017 20:07
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Cythereal posted:
I know we say this a lot because goons, etc, but honestly there is something very, very wrong with that man's brain and it's only a matter of time before he has either a total narcissistic meltdown or ends up shooting squirrels out the window with a high-powered rifle because he thinks they're ISIS insurgents
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Jul 28, 2017 16:14
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