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Commoners posted:Stealth armor PB + air strikes is really powerful. You can open up a whole team of mechs on their backs and then just go to town without repercussion. What's your build for that?
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Jul 27, 2017 03:16
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Four ML, stealth armor, ECM, three heat sinks, XL190. Just shoot people until they die.
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Jul 27, 2017 03:51
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Commoners posted:Four ML, stealth armor, ECM, three heat sinks, XL190. Just shoot people until they die. ER or regular med? I was thinking of doing ERs but they seem to run a bit hot.
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Jul 27, 2017 04:59
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It runs too hot and the extra poke isn't worth the value that you get when everything is going to poo poo and you just need to pump as much damage as you possibly can into a fight. Stealth armor makes up for a lot of the risk factors that you'd normally have like running into a streak boat or someone firing lrms into you while you're fighting, so the extra range isn't all that necessary.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:21
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I run that PB build and on cold maps it's even better because you can leave stealth on for most of the match.
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Jul 27, 2017 15:24
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IS Tonnage is getting dropped to 250. That sure didn't last long!
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Jul 27, 2017 23:00
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ATM-9s and ATM-12's are beastly if you treat them like special snowflake SSRMs. Ive been running 4x ATM9s on my MDD-B and its bonkers especially on maps like Highlands/Mining/HPG that feature gentle ramps or hills. I'll crest slightly to peek over the top, grab a lock and dump an alpha into the chest of an assault, nearly completely vaporizing their front armor. Pretty much the only way I can deal with the MadCatII's and Anni's since those mechs are OP as all gently caress. Several times I'll get ignored and dump salvo after salvo into every enemy's front, clearing their armor and making them soft as fluffy clouds for the rest of the team to finish. Sometimes I'll lock an unlucky medium or heavy and take off their arm(s) in one blast. The downsides are the horrible LRM-like lock times (even spec'd for lower lock times and with BAP/TARGCPU), lovely min range and if you use them above 500m, you minus well be a lurm boat. But drat does it clear armor away like a mofo. Ive also been running trials on RACs and I have to believe they are total crap even when you get completely retaliation-free facetime, no combination of dual RAC5s seems to be worthwhile compared to UACs. They are super loving annoying to get hit by because PGI in their infinite wisdom decided that ballastics needed to blind whatever they hit, so the RAC is a great "scare mechanic". Worse than that, the audio for these are like 15db above UACs, making it PAINFUL to hear when you do get hit, which is super bad imho. On the other hand, Heavy lasers are interesting. The burn duration is acceptable in my eyes (and I can make it work), but the cooldown is batshit insane. Hvy-ML are in an curious place because you can stack them pretty well and their 10dmg is pretty punishing if you can keep it on target. Heavy PPCs are fun as a gimmick, but for the life of me cannot fathom why anyone would ever use light or snubs. Edit: Heavy gauss is a great reason to start aimbotting, the number of fatal one-shot head explosions people kept landing on me and my team was.... amusing due to how blatant it was. Slayerjerman fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 23:02
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Slayerjerman posted:woooooords Wow. There is so much wrong or just downright confusing here... I... really don't feel like refuting this point by point right now. maybe later. Also, get Artemis. doubles lock speed.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:25
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Don't ATMs already include Artemis?
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Jul 27, 2017 23:30
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never go ATM. So how much is the Scorch on sale?
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Jul 27, 2017 23:37
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Slayerjerman posted:ATM-9s and ATM-12's are beastly if you treat them like special snowflake SSRMs. Ive been running 4x ATM9s on my MDD-B and its bonkers especially on maps like Highlands/Mining/HPG that feature gentle ramps or hills. I'll crest slightly to peek over the top, grab a lock and dump an alpha into the chest of an assault, nearly completely vaporizing their front armor. Pretty much the only way I can deal with the MadCatII's and Anni's since those mechs are OP as all gently caress. I've been playing round with a shadow cat using 2*9 instead of 3*6. The shadowcat b(that's the one with ECM) actually gets decent quirks set of 8 quirks for it. Its a half ton lighter overall for the same DPS, and 10% cooldown before the firepower tree is nothing to scoff at. Its not bad. Spread is kind of bad, and it takes a bit of doing to get used to that midrange harassment, but there was a definite game in which I was astonished to just come out with over 700 damage for the time I spent alive.
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Jul 27, 2017 23:58
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also, I apparently have 3400 mc leftover from founders/gained from events. Are there any noteworthy must have hero mechs? I'm mostly good IS side, but open to suggestions there - any standouts on the clan side? Edit: medusa seems like a steal for 1875, as does the pahket for 2345. Any other contenders? TheParadigm fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 00:56
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Rysithusiku posted:Wow. There is so much wrong or just downright confusing here... You're possibly confused as a laser-vomit player, I was too at first with the tech update. I know pinpoint and low-facetime damage is king, but the other weapon systems are viable to some degree. Ideal? Not at all in most circumstances, but I am tired of running the typical laser vomit every game so I started to tinker with the other stuff to see if I could make it work. Yes, the spread is bad on ATMs, it is however not MRM-bad and feels more like using SSRMs at max-range. The major issue I have is with the ATMs constantly splashing legs, but from what I have read that seems to be some sort of bug with the tracking? I have Artemis on, but I really do not see much of an improvement over say a Targeting Computer MK1. BAP is useless considering that anything in BAP range is already within your minimum distance so that seems kind of a waste to use, the lock time reduction is meh. I play more of a support role with the ATMs, I hang mid-distance to share my armor and entirely use them to strip armor and I switch targets constantly. I found that the role of ATMs is to soften mechs as the ATMs are terrible at killing shots as noted with the spread. I tried running a pair of light MG's on my MDD's arms and found that stripped mechs were super easy prey while my ATMs/heat cooled down. So i'll spray my ATMs all over the place, soften like 6 or mechs and it usually helps the team pull off wins, especially against pushes. Its interesting imho. I don't understand the hate for missiles in MWO aside that they are "no-skill noob weapons", which can be true in the hands of someone that actually knows how to position and use them which takes a lot of patience and practice. I'm not saying someone should slap ATMs on an assault and stand at 1200m... that would be pretty bad for sure.
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Jul 28, 2017 01:04
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Slayerjerman posted:I don't understand the hate for missiles in MWO aside that they are "no-skill noob weapons", which can be true in the hands of someone that actually knows how to position and use them which takes a lot of patience and practice. I'm not saying someone should slap ATMs on an assault and stand at 1200m... that would be pretty bad for sure. It's because it's an unfun playstyle at the best case. Most goons just enjoy in your face brawling, and LRM boating prevents that on a lot of maps because they're just open field snipe heavens. I mean, you can argue all you want that it takes "skill" to be good at position and whatnot if your main playstyle is LRM boating, but that doesn't change the fact that all you do is stand still and wait for a circle to turn red, then hold down LMB.
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Jul 28, 2017 01:09
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Skoll posted:It's because it's an unfun playstyle at the best case. Most goons just enjoy in your face brawling, and LRM boating prevents that on a lot of maps because they're just open field snipe heavens. If you do this with ATMs, you're doing it wrong. They have a much lower trajectory, so you have to be constantly moving to find angles. They also do most of their damage inside 300m, so you can't just hide safely in the back, you're going to be exposed if you want to actually be useful. If you gently caress up and the enemies realize what your loadout is, they'll just rush you and you lose most/all of your damage output. It's not the same as LRMs at all. Slayerjerman posted:Heavy PPCs are fun as a gimmick, but for the life of me cannot fathom why anyone would ever use light or snubs. I made a 3x Light PPC ECM Raven, and it could be reasonably effective, but I changed it back because I'm not very good at sniping and didn't find it very fun either. On the other hand, I made a AC20, 2x Snub PPC Cataphract 0XP and that is great fun for brawling. ZombieApostate fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 01:29
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LRMs and ATMs are a skill check weapon, in that the only time you get hit by them is if you've made terrible mistakes in the mechlab/skill tree or you've made terrible positioning errors during the match that get you shot by missiles. Generally the people that you end up killing or stripping armor from with those tend to be the people who are barely functioning in the first place. Then you're also taking a mech and having it boat weapons that require a very specific set of circumstances to function optimally and becomes a dumpster fire liability if those circumstances aren't met, versus having a mech that can more or less function under any circumstances. I tried ATMs out, and the primary feeling I had with them was either "I would rather have LRMs right now," or "I would rather have SRMs right now." The ATM sweet spot is in a place where you could just be making GBS threads on people with SRMs, but also without the option to just roll in and smash someone for using particular weapons. Boating ATMs means I can't dive a PPC boat, a laser vomit mech, another ATM boat, or an IS LRM boat where they won't have any ability to fight back, because I'm restricted to maintaining line of sight with a weapon that requires locks and has a minimum range, but if I had SRMs all of those are easy pickings. TheParadigm posted:Edit: medusa seems like a steal for 1875, as does the pahket for 2345. The pahket can do okay from what I've seen, vipers are flying target practice and really don't do anything too well. The linebacker hero doesn't get you too much more than base linebackers, but linebackers are a money printer and are one of the stronger brawling mechs in the game right now. The kit fox hero makes the kit fox as a platform viable and can do okay. Commoners fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 03:16
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Commoners posted:LRMs and ATMs are a skill check weapon, in that the only time you get hit by them is if you've made terrible mistakes in the mechlab/skill tree or you've made terrible positioning errors during the match that get you shot by missiles. ATMs are best inside that 120-300m window. Close enough to quickly flank people to negate their cover/defeat their positioning. If you can do it without them spotting you, even better. I would agree that you shouldn't really get hit by LRMs, but you can be much more aggressive with positioning while using ATMs. quote:Then you're also taking a mech and having it boat weapons that require a very specific set of circumstances to function optimally and becomes a dumpster fire liability if those circumstances aren't met, versus having a mech that can more or less function under any circumstances. This is the downside. It's also why I wouldn't boat ATMs on an assault or slow heavy. Maybe as a secondary weapon. Being able to retreat when you see a push coming is incredibly useful. Conversely, I don't think lights have enough tonnage to work with to make them worthwhile, even if you shoot butts exclusively. quote:I tried ATMs out, and the primary feeling I had with them was either "I would rather have LRMs right now," or "I would rather have SRMs right now." The ATM sweet spot is in a place where you could just be making GBS threads on people with SRMs, but also without the option to just roll in and smash someone for using particular weapons. Boating ATMs means I can't dive a PPC boat, a laser vomit mech, another ATM boat, or an IS LRM boat where they won't have any ability to fight back, because I'm restricted to maintaining line of sight with a weapon that requires locks and has a minimum range, but if I had SRMs all of those are easy pickings. I haven't really used SRMs extensively, but my impression is they work best out to ~150m. ATMs are best in that 120-~300m window, but are still pretty effective out to 500m. LRMs are better beyond that, but they're still garbage. ATMs are even more garbage at that range, so I don't even use them at that point. As for diving to punish someone, you don't really need to. If you have 3xATM9s, the second volley will strip most of their weapons off along with all their armor. You can just play your game and their game ceases to matter. Having to get locks is a little annoying, but you can pre-lock before you peek and fire if your teammates aren't completely passive. They only need to stay locked for the 2-3 seconds it takes to get your own lock, and you're close enough that you should only have to stare at them for an instant before you missiles hit. If you want to be super aggressive, you can sneak around behind the enemy and lock while they're looking the other direction, with the added bonus that they'll probably die to the first volley if you hit them in the back. Basically, they burst damage way harder from a safer position than SRMs and they don't suck like LRMs. They absolutely need the right mech and a critical mass volume of fire, but they do great as a mid range skirmisher sort of role and I would definitely not lump them in with LRMs.
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Jul 28, 2017 04:27
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ZombieApostate posted:As for diving to punish someone, you don't really need to. If you have 3xATM9s, the second volley will strip most of their weapons off along with all their armor. You can just play your game and their game ceases to matter. SRMs will work perfectly well 0m-300m after skill tree, and have almost the same spread throughout the entire weapon range. If you close in on someone who has minimum ranges you completely negate them while also being able to kill them, as opposed to trading with them or waiting for teammates to trade with them before you contribute. They also allow you to torso twist and peek, and can fully function as a poptarting weapon given a piece of cover between you and your target. And ATMs don't burst better, because 9 tons of missile weapons can either get you a 72 point alpha in one splat via SRM6s, or you can get a 54 point alpha (But only at the 120-240m mark) from ATMs that is streamed out and susceptible to AMS. Prelocking via a teammate just means that they're exposed and you're not, which is the same buddy-loving that LRMs do, and if you're getting your own locks you're having precious seconds of deadtime where someone can have already shot you in the face and torso twisted after you finally get your shot off. That is IF you get your lock, because someone can pop back behind cover or just outright have ECM or stealth armor now to completely turn off your locks. If they're remotely positioned well then there's also a high chance that your missiles will just be eating dirt instead of armor. ATMs punish bad players, but open you up for so much counter-punishment that they aren't worth the liability. They have too many downsides to make up for the damage potential that they have, and they require too specific of circumstances to perform well consistently. I won't tell you that they're not fun, because that's completely subjective, but they're objectively a bad weapon for the same reasons that LRMs are bad, RACs are bad, or Vindicators are bad. Too much face time, burden the rest of the team to carry disproportionate amounts of weight, and ton for ton are outperformed by almost any alternative while also being much more inflexible. Commoners fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 05:00
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Dual heavy gauss has some weird stuff going on with spacing of the shots. Not really sure if the screen shake is being applied to both shots. It's difficult to tell due to the shake and the fact that it murders people quickly either way.
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Jul 28, 2017 08:10
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Slayerjerman posted:I don't understand the hate for missiles in MWO aside that they are "no-skill noob weapons", which can be true in the hands of someone that actually knows how to position and use them which takes a lot of patience and practice. I'm not saying someone should slap ATMs on an assault and stand at 1200m... that would be pretty bad for sure. It's because pubbies love to mount LRMs on their shitfit assaults, hide behind a hill / everyone else then flee immediately if a laser scratches their paint job. They don't contribute to trading with their copious armor so the rest of the team gets thinned out and they die anyway. Often the vast majority of their LRMs slam into hillsides, buildings and mountains anyway. They also love to demand other people provide them with locks and get upset when you make fun of them. From a meta standpoint LRMs are splash damage and pinpoint is what you want to kill things.
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Jul 28, 2017 11:00
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I've seen more and more unabashed LRM use by goons. Leave that poo poo for when you are solo dropping and keep your shame a secret.
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Jul 28, 2017 11:12
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TjyvTompa posted:I've seen more and more unabashed LRM use by goons. Leave that poo poo for when you are solo dropping and keep your shame a secret. Game sucks, why try?
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Jul 28, 2017 11:44
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TjyvTompa posted:I've seen more and more unabashed LRM use by goons. Leave that poo poo for when you are solo dropping and keep your shame a secret. Goons pull out lrms when we have a narctic cheetah. Also, goons usually know how to actually use lrms vs the pub cockholsters that hide like bitches and fire blindly the entire match. LRMs are trash for trash players. Which is fine because this is a trash game.
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Jul 28, 2017 11:48
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Commoners posted:SRMs will work perfectly well 0m-300m after skill tree, and have almost the same spread throughout the entire weapon range. SRMs will still do damage out to ~300m, yes, if you can actually hit a moving target consistently at that range. It's much easier with ATMs. quote:If you close in on someone who has minimum ranges you completely negate them while also being able to kill them, as opposed to trading with them or waiting for teammates to trade with them before you contribute. They also allow you to torso twist and peek, and can fully function as a poptarting weapon given a piece of cover between you and your target. It's not so easy to close on someone who retreats every time you try to. That also gives you an opportunity to shower them in ATMs before/during your retreat. It's rare that you would have to trade with anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't if you want to share your armor and give your team a chance to shoot. And if you do something dumb and get caught in the open, you've got ~5 seconds to twist damage while your ATMs come off cooldown. quote:
6 SRM6s will fit on 3 mechs in the game. SRM6s have a spread of 5m vs ATM's 3.5m spread. 6 ASRM6s is the same tonnage as 3 ATM9s, which do 81 damage in their optimal window, while using 9 less ammo per volley. Granted, ATMs are a little more susceptible to AMS, but it isn't usually a major problem. ATMs aren't in the air long enough or high enough for most of the enemies' AMS to shoot. quote:Prelocking via a teammate just means that they're exposed and you're not, which is the same buddy-loving that LRMs do, and if you're getting your own locks you're having precious seconds of deadtime where someone can have already shot you in the face and torso twisted after you finally get your shot off. That is IF you get your lock, because someone can pop back behind cover or just outright have ECM or stealth armor now to completely turn off your locks. If they're remotely positioned well then there's also a high chance that your missiles will just be eating dirt instead of armor. Prelocking is a convenience, not a requirement. There's nothing stopping you from sharing your armor, since you can usually shoot from just behind your front line mechs. If you bring the critical volume of ATMs, torso twisting doesn't really help that much, since the second volley takes your arm and torso off that side. ECM carriers are a serious problem, but I usually just leave them to my team if I have another target to shoot. I don't think I've actually seen anybody use stealth armor while I was running my ATM crow, but they'd be basically the same deal as ECM, leave them or use my non-ATM weapons on them. quote:ATMs punish bad players, but open you up for so much counter-punishment that they aren't worth the liability. They have too many downsides to make up for the damage potential that they have, and they require too specific of circumstances to perform well consistently. I'm not arguing that ATMs should replace SRMs, just that you shouldn't write them off completely. If you want to get in and brawl, they'd obviously be pretty terrible. They probably wouldn't be great in competitive play. Against pugs, I would disagree with you and say they can be very effective if you know how to use them and put them on the right mech in enough quantity.
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Jul 28, 2017 12:16
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So do rear end to mouth lock like lrms and streaks?
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Jul 28, 2017 12:22
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Yeah. In mechanical terms, they work more like LRMs than anything else. Lock-on, arcing fire (in a much lower arc than LRMs), and a minimum range (120m) like IS LRMs, fire in streams like Clan LRMs.
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Jul 28, 2017 12:26
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Being able to hit something 300m away is not hard
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Jul 28, 2017 13:05
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TjyvTompa posted:I've seen more and more unabashed LRM use by goons. Leave that poo poo for when you are solo dropping and keep your shame a secret. I like LRMs because I'm bad and can't aim
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Jul 28, 2017 15:33
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Buschmaki posted:Being able to hit something 300m away is not hard I've been to a few ranges in my time and I can tell you that fit some people it is quite hard to make a 300 meter shot.
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Jul 28, 2017 17:06
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Snub PPC is for LCT-1V only Does the MASC Wolverine have any good builds?
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Jul 28, 2017 17:15
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Bobcats posted:Snub PPC is for LCT-1V only The masc wolverine is trash on legs.
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Jul 28, 2017 17:28
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ZombieApostate posted:It's not so easy to close on someone who retreats every time you try to. That also gives you an opportunity to shower them in ATMs before/during your retreat. It's rare that you would have to trade with anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't if you want to share your armor and give your team a chance to shoot. And if you do something dumb and get caught in the open, you've got ~5 seconds to twist damage while your ATMs come off cooldown. Kiting doesn't work in this game unless you hit the trifecta of running jump jets, having weapons on your arms, and are twice as fast as the thing you're trying to kite. Turning on the diagonal to achieve target lock means you aren't pushing all of your speed away from the target, and that means that they can beeline to you and catch up with you. It is extremely easy to attack people who retreat every time you push on them, because they will either continue to run and not be dealing their damage or they will try to be cheeky and kite and will get smashed for their efforts. The locust at 165kph can't successfully kite stormcrows due to the nature of movement in this game, and a stormcrow, or even a shadowcat for that matter, won't be able to kite the mediums or lights that are 100% interested in finding an ATM boat as much as they are interested in finding a retard IS player who is running only LRMs. Making garbage work doesn't mean it isn't lovely garbage. People get kills with RACs and heavy large lasers too, but that doesn't make them anything close to good weapons. I don't imagine that they don't exist, because I know that if I stand there like a dingus and eat a series of ATM volleys while they're in the sweet spot it'll hurt, but at the same time I'm just going to go kick an ATM boat's cockpit in because ATM boats' special technique for when an enemy closes within 120m is to fail miserably and fall apart. They're another flavor of the CLRMs that is somehow a greater liability than CLRMs. Great Beer posted:The masc wolverine is trash on legs. MASC wolverine is a huge turd, and if you want an actually functional MASC mech you should either look to the cataphract or the phoenix hawk. veedubfreak posted:Also, goons usually know how to actually use lrms Goons shoot mountains just as much as pubs from what I've seen. Commoners fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 28, 2017 |
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Jul 28, 2017 18:30
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Commoners posted:Goons shoot mountains just as much as pubs from what I've seen. it's important to remember that you're replying to veedub here
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Jul 28, 2017 20:13
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Open one of my supply caches on a whim, got the 'Oxygen' decal. It's just a circle and I couldn't be happier about it.
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Jul 28, 2017 23:36
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The Oxygen sticker is one of the best in the game. It's right up there, and possibly better than, the Heart and the Venus/Girl decal.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:59
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If you're actually going to use LRMs for the love of god pack medium range direct fire weapons too and only fire your missiles at targets well in the open when you know the shots will actually connect. Learn to fire your beams and LRMs at the same time so everything connects and you aren't wasting firepower. After doing this successfully for a while take the time to ask yourself "huh, now that I think about it why didn't I just bring an autocannon and learn to aim?".
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Jul 29, 2017 07:19
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DancingShade posted:"huh, now that I think about it why didn't I just bring an autocannon and learn to aim?". Your question is an answer.
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Jul 29, 2017 07:21
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listen it's real hard to aim sometimes with your joystick in a cramped simpit
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Jul 29, 2017 07:58
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The only thing better than using LRMs to be useless to your team is using LRMs to troll goons who get lovely about it.
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Jul 29, 2017 09:52
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Skoll posted:The only thing better than using LRMs to be useless to your team is using LRMs to troll goons who get lovely about it. You can't mount many LRMs on a K9 spamming it's police siren though. Or any really.
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Jul 29, 2017 10:19
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