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At this point, the sheer malice of Reborn is starting to get to me more than the edginess or the difficulty. Pokemon "hard mode" hacks are pretty dumb as a species, but I feel like most of them aren't this much about just making GBS threads on the MC and player as much as this is. How did anyone think this was going to be fun?
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Jul 28, 2017 10:36
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Antivehicular posted:At this point, the sheer malice of Reborn is starting to get to me more than the edginess or the difficulty. Pokemon "hard mode" hacks are pretty dumb as a species, but I feel like most of them aren't this much about just making GBS threads on the MC and player as much as this is. How did anyone think this was going to be fun? Tt doesn't even try to be fair. For instance, take her Breloom. It's actually not evolved before it's supposed to, but it knows Spore when Shroomish doesn't even learn it until Level 40. Ignoring how you can't get Shroomish by this point because having good Pokemon at this point is illegal, you still wouldn't be able to teach it Spore at this point without unfathomable amounts of hellish grinding (to force it to level 40 even through the disobedience, and not being able to let it evolve until that point). This is also ignoring how Spore is one of the most broken moves in the entire game (100% accuracy sleep) and it's being thrown at you in a Gym at all, let alone Gym 2. And this is still overall probably better than Gym 1, which is stupefying when you think about it. Also, gently caress Fern. That's not even a rivalry he's trying for, he's going for actual bullying. Go get murdered by Team Meteor, you scumbag.
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Jul 28, 2017 11:21
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I'm just wondering, what is the point of this game? Why was it even made and who is it for?
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Jul 28, 2017 11:54
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Dr. Fetus posted:I'm just wondering, what is the point of this game? Why was it even made and who is it for? Obsessive teenagers, and obsessive teenagers.
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Jul 28, 2017 12:10
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At least Uranium's bullshit difficulty is mostly due to a misguided attempt to make the game more appealing to the comp scene combined with bad design. This is straight up spite.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:17
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As bad as this drat game is I gotta say this LP is actually really really good. I adore the fact you went the extra mile and evolved a Staryu just to poo poo on the game some more. I love all the character dialogue because it's so emblematic of the game's crapitude. Did someone say once that a pile of the NPCs are actually all lovely RP personas from a chat room? Because the four diaries make that agonizingly plausible. Also Fern is an edgy shitlord even by this game's standards. I almost admire the misguided effort that resulted in him standing out as crappy even by this game's standards.
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Jul 28, 2017 15:32
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I kinda feel like Fern is supposed to be the bad guy rival ala Gary or Silver but written by people with no idea of subtlety and no idea of what makes a bad guy rival entertaining rather than spiteful.
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Jul 28, 2017 15:52
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Jesus Christ, robot girl's dialogue is painful to read. Some people should not be allowed to own a thesaurus. 
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Jul 28, 2017 17:09
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Zakrelo posted:Was Fern always this assholish? Feels like it kinda came out of nowhere... No, he just gets worse every time he shows up.
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Jul 28, 2017 19:46
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Asator posted:No, he just gets worse every time he shows up. I cannot wait for more. 
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Jul 28, 2017 19:55
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The "everyone knew each other in school" setup feels kind of strange, for some reason. I guess it might be because Gym Leaders are usually designed to be very different and distinctive from each other, including in age and background. I'm not sure it's bad, since it does kind of play into "everyone is stuck in this one city" and maybe some intrigue but it's still odd in a Pokemon game.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:41
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...Wow, Fern went from 0 to 100 on the rear end in a top hat Meter in no time. I mean, it just feels so incredibly forced to set him up as rival like this (assuming that's what they're even going for). ...He's going to get much worse, isn't he.
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Jul 29, 2017 03:48
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Regalingualius posted:...Wow, Fern went from 0 to 100 on the rear end in a top hat Meter in no time. I mean, it just feels so incredibly forced to set him up as rival like this (assuming that's what they're even going for). He was kind of a jerk in the base-storming section too, but he was nominally on your side. Now he's a super jerk who's deliberately hindering you because he's creepily possessive of his sister.
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Jul 29, 2017 05:26
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Seaogre posted:The "everyone knew each other in school" setup feels kind of strange, for some reason. I guess it might be because Gym Leaders are usually designed to be very different and distinctive from each other, including in age and background. It shows up in the mainline games actually. Candice and Maylene in DPPt are friends for instance, as are Volkner and Flint. Koga passes the gym leader mantle to Janine from gen 1 to 2. Juan and Wallace are master/student. Roark and Byron are related. Not to the degree of 'we were high school besties', but leaders knowing each other is showing up increasingly often in the main games.
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Jul 29, 2017 06:09
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ApplesandOranges posted:It shows up in the mainline games actually. Candice and Maylene in DPPt are friends for instance, as are Volkner and Flint. Koga passes the gym leader mantle to Janine from gen 1 to 2. Juan and Wallace are master/student. Roark and Byron are related. Not to the degree of 'we were high school besties', but leaders knowing each other is showing up increasingly often in the main games. There's a bit of difference between two different sets of friends, a father & daughter, a protege & his master and a son & his father. Meanwhile Reborn has four high school besties and roommates and two of them are also a secret lesbian couple. Like there's a narrative pair and there's contrived bullshit. Like someone said, it's what you'd get in an RP being played by a bunch of teenagers. Testekill fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jul 29, 2017 |
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Jul 29, 2017 07:10
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Well, if I remember correctly most of the main games have a school and at least once (RSE?) it's mentioned that one way of becoming a gym leader is by exceeding in one of those, four particularly gifted children from the same school becoming gym leaders is not that far fetched.
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Jul 29, 2017 09:11
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Petiso posted:Well, if I remember correctly most of the main games have a school and at least once (RSE?) it's mentioned that one way of becoming a gym leader is by exceeding in one of those, four particularly gifted children from the same school becoming gym leaders is not that far fetched. Yeah, I feel like "four of the Gym Leaders are young rising stars who all studied/trained/journeyed together" in a vacuum isn't a problem. Even "these characters are clearly the game creators' Original Characters Do Not Steal from some roleplay and have a little too much overwrought backstory" would be a forgivable sin in a fangame that was otherwise enjoyable and adequately well-written. The problem is that it combines with the game's active spite towards the player to really give off the vibe that the creators favor the NPCs and are angry at the MC, maybe resentful they even have to have a player-controlled main character in their Pokemon fangame and couldn't just release a game about their pet NPCs. (I suspect this is closer to the truth than anyone is likely to admit.)
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Jul 29, 2017 09:32
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If anything, what could help is that one or more of these rising stars could have pursued a career unrelated to becoming a Gym Leader. Viola, the Bug GL from Kalos, has a sister who is in journalism, as an example. It could help with world-building, or making otherwise vanilla NPCs have a reason for the player to take interest in them.
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Jul 29, 2017 10:03
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LightningKimba posted:If anything, what could help is that one or more of these rising stars could have pursued a career unrelated to becoming a Gym Leader. Viola, the Bug GL from Kalos, has a sister who is in journalism, as an example. Here's my idea for them. Keep two of them as Gym Leaders, make one of them a Pokemon researcher who was more interested in studying then battling and make the final one a prodigy who went off to do her own thing after graduation. Have the final one be encountered a couple of times as a helpful character, maybe involve her in the climax of the Team Meteor stuff when you find out how much of a big shot she is but you don't actually get to fight her until the post game. She's inspired by you beating the Pokemon League and wants to get serious by travelling to different regions and facing the strongest that the world has to offer but first she wants to take you on because you impressed her so much. I mean ideally you'd get rid of all the superficial & shallow elements of their characters but let's not go crazy.
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Jul 29, 2017 10:27
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Wow that already brings to mind that you already have connections between Agatha and Prof. Oak as early as gen 1.
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Jul 29, 2017 14:33
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Leraika posted:I kinda feel like Fern is supposed to be the bad guy rival ala Gary or Silver but written by people with no idea of subtlety and no idea of what makes a bad guy rival entertaining rather than spiteful.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:49
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I feel like we shouldn't be shocked. They unironically have his character class as 'Swag Jockey' him being a massive tool was really a matter of 'when'
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Jul 30, 2017 00:57
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Haifisch posted:Yeah, I felt like they were going for (everyone's childhood impressions of) Gary Oak without realizing that a)he wasn't in full rear end in a top hat mode 24/7, and b)RBY had so little going on that most of it was people reading too much into things anyway. Gary Oak also had history with the player character. He was your Bakugo, so the rivalry felt like there was something beyond the mere fact he was a prick. He also was established as potentially world class from very early on. Losing to Gary wasn't a mark against you, since this was the guy who was setting new land speed records against gyms. This jackass only just met you, so it doesn't work the same way.
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Jul 30, 2017 03:39
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chiasaur11 posted:Gary Oak also had history with the player character. He was your Bakugo, so the rivalry felt like there was something beyond the mere fact he was a prick. He also was established as potentially world class from very early on. Losing to Gary wasn't a mark against you, since this was the guy who was setting new land speed records against gyms. Also, even if Blue could be jerkish, he was never an rear end in a top hat to you. Like here are his 'dick' moments quote:"Alright Gramps! Leave it all to me! <player> I hate to say it, but I don't need you! I know! I'll borrow a Town Map from my sis! I'll tell her not to lend you one, <player>! Hahaha!" quote:"Hey! <player>! You're going to Pokémon League? Forget it! You probably don't have any Badges! The guard won't let you through! By the way, did your Pokémon get any stronger?" Which, if you're paying any attention, it's Blue telling you the guard wont let you through if you don't have any badges. He's not saying you're too weak, or it's pointless for you. quote:"I heard Pokémon League has many tough trainers! I have to figure out how to get past them! You should quit dawdling and get a move on!" If anything, HERE he's actively encouraging you to get stronger, quicker. quote:"What? <player>! What a surprise to see you here! So you're going to Pokémon League? You collected all the Badges too? That's cool! Then I'll whip you <player> as a warm up for Pokémon League! Come on!" quote:"That loosened me up! I'm ready for Pokémon League! <player>, you need more practice! But hey, you know that! I'm out of here. Smell ya!" The majority of Blue's battles with you are him checking to see if you've gotten stronger, and then afterwards recommending you to go do things that are actually beneficial to you! That is the key point, Blue is your rival. His active interest is becoming the best and seeing you as a whetstone for his advancement. He is not your enemy or a force actively moving to thwart your progress. Fern, and by extension so many other fan rivals, are just dickheads to you. And so many fans misunderstand that because you're ahead of your friends, that makes YOU the rival. But we go back to Blue as the original example, he saw you as his whetstone and actively encouraged you to get better! At no point does he tell you to stop your quest, or give up, or that you're a disgrace. In fact, no rival in the history of Pokemon has ever been so negative. Even loving Silver! quote:"I hate the weak. Pokémon, trainers. It doesn't matter who or what. I'm going to be strong and wipe out the weak. That goes for Team Rocket too. They act big and tough in a group. But get them alone, and they're weak. I hate them all. You stay out of my way. A weakling like you is only a distraction." He calls you weak and tells you to stay out of his way, but he never tells you to stop your quest. He does call you a weakling, but he isn't like "GET THE gently caress OUT OF THIS GYM!" he mocks you, but then eats poo poo, and his entire character arc is learning that he's a tool. Fern is like 80 silvers.
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Jul 30, 2017 03:59
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People think Blue is malicious because they're confusing him with Gary Oak from the anime who was actively a dick to Ash.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:30
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I never read it as Blue being a douche, sure he's a bit smug but he's your rival and he expects you to be really good also. But people act like he's openly antagonistic which he's anything but
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Jul 30, 2017 04:49
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senrath posted:People think Blue is malicious because they're confusing him with Gary Oak from the anime who was actively a dick to Ash.
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Jul 30, 2017 04:53
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There's also the part where Fern is presumably an adult, having graduated high school (???), and Blue is a goddamn ten year old.
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Jul 30, 2017 05:12
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senrath posted:People think Blue is malicious because they're confusing him with Gary Oak from the anime who was actively a dick to Ash. Gary is also barely IN the anime as it was. To the point where he doesn't have a real fight with Ash until Johto, and while a Prick, he, again, never actively gets in Ash's way. He's just smug. And after the OI filler, he congratulates Ash on his victory there. In short, Gary is in like... 10 episodes? In a 50+ episode season? And while he's a smug rear end, he's never a hindrance, and in fact often around for his own things. It seems more like everyone only remembers "Gary was here, Ash is a loser." From the sign in the early seasons and that's literally the entire character.
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Jul 30, 2017 05:17
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Onmi posted:Gary is also barely IN the anime as it was. To the point where he doesn't have a real fight with Ash until Johto, and while a Prick, he, again, never actively gets in Ash's way. He's just smug. And after the OI filler, he congratulates Ash on his victory there. I wouldn't be surprised if all that people remember of Gary is him showing up in a car with cheerleaders and gloating over Ash.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:15
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"Gary was here, Ash is a loser" is fantastic though. And that was at the end of episode six. The first season of Pokemon was great. (For real how do you have a squadron of cheerleaders when you're ten?)
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Jul 30, 2017 09:25
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senrath posted:I wouldn't be surprised if all that people remember of Gary is him showing up in a car with cheerleaders and gloating over Ash. Confirmed! This, Team Rocket's poem, charmander nearly dying in the rain, and Ash crashing the bike he stole are the only bits I remember of the cartoon. Which doesn't reflect that well on Ash, come to think of it. Popular memory of famous characters seems to drift away from the original over time. Star Trek's a good example: everyone remembers Captain Kirk as this womanising space cowboy, when he was never anything but an officer and a gentleman. Then the new film series came along and made the cheating scoundrel fan-Kirk official, and the trekkies all cheered, because it's exactly how they remember him. I think it's just because exaggerated stereotypes are easier to remember, and usually more fun. Rival Blue isn't as memorable as Gary Motherfucking Oak, the guy who kicks you when you're down and looks good doing it. People do this to historical figures, too, but 
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Jul 30, 2017 09:28
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I liked the aspect that Jesse, James and Meowth got their motto wrong but in a way that let the viewer know that they, unlike the rest of Team Rocket aren't actually evil, just in with a bad crowd. Illustrated when they have their motto fight with Cassidy and Botch ("DAT'S BUTCH!"  )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5sgp2sn0Wg Cassidy and Butch use the "real" motto which is more sinister in wording than Jesse and James's wording of it. Also the latter's motto is vaguely uplifting (as in lifting themselves up), while the former is more oppressive (putting everyone else down). Also they mirror the main character nicely - they also have a pokemon who doesn't fit the mold and refuses to be shoved in a tiny metal ball. Any other group in Team Rocket probably would have beaten him up and captured him like any other, Jesse and James recognise that he is just as smart as they are and afford him the same respect they afford each other - they didn't capture Meowth, they swore him in. They also show genuine love for their pokemon, the only reason James had a problem with his Victreebel was that it wasn't his - his Weepinbell loved him unconditionally while being kind of an idiot about physical affection, but he didn't get his Weepinbell back - the daycare centre was run by another sect of Team Rocket who conned everyone, including James, by simply replacing the Trainer's pokemon with a stronger evolution (probably just caught in the wild) and pocketing the money. His Victreebel was violent and unresponsive because it wasn't his Victreebell (This is all from memory, I've probably misremembered stuff) BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 09:38
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Another factor in people remembering Blue as a jerk is them as kids not being prepared for when he challenges you near the end of a dungeon/in a town where a kid might not have gone to a pokemon center yet.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:49
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The Golux posted:Another factor in people remembering Blue as a jerk is them as kids not being prepared for when he challenges you near the end of a dungeon/in a town where a kid might not have gone to a pokemon center yet. Oh lord, Captain Swag is probably going to disable a pokemon center when we go to use it or something, isn't he?
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Jul 30, 2017 19:14
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The Golux posted:Another factor in people remembering Blue as a jerk is them as kids not being prepared for when he challenges you near the end of a dungeon/in a town where a kid might not have gone to a pokemon center yet. Except he never does that. The only time he challenges you at the end of a dungeon is St. Anne, where you have a bed you can heal on, and Silph Co. where you again, have beds you can heal on that you MUST pass through to get to him. In fact to get to Blue's town challenges, you must directly walk past a Pokemon Center to get to them. That's not being 'not prepared' that's 'My team has gone through hell and yet I'm going to continue exploring and not take 5 seconds to heal." Glazius posted:Oh lord, Captain Swag is probably going to disable a pokemon center when we go to use it or something, isn't he? Pokemon Glazed actually does this on its third Gym Circuit. The gym leaders boyfriend is an utterly punchable twit who gasses you when you attempt to heal and locks you in a sewer dungeon. Oh an he has a Kyogre, and after you get out, he talks about fighting you "If you're good enough." You can be champion of 3 regions and he'll keep saying that. Note that in spite of him having a Kyogre, the plot of the final gym circuit is that of the 2nd Pokemon movie and a bunch of wooping idiots capturing legendary birds which fucks up nature? It's the last vestiges of whatever I had as good will to the romhack dying. Onmi fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 22:20
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Onmi posted:Except he never does that. The only time he challenges you at the end of a dungeon is St. Anne, where you have a bed you can heal on, and Silph Co. where you again, have beds you can heal on that you MUST pass through to get to him. In fact to get to Blue's town challenges, you must directly walk past a Pokemon Center to get to them. That's not being 'not prepared' that's 'My team has gone through hell and yet I'm going to continue exploring and not take 5 seconds to heal." And, as the person you quoted said, a lot of kids did exactly that. I probably did it myself once or twice back then.
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Jul 30, 2017 22:23
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God this loving level limit bullshit is the worst. What a terrible loving idea. There are actually a lot o fairly decent pokemon up to this point if we could evolve them. Camerupt is pretty legit, especially since I believe it's our only ground and fire pokemon so far. Manectric is a good electric pokemon (which evolves from an Electrike at a player-insulting level of 26). We could've potentially gotten a Blissey and a Roserade too. I'm prob missing a few, but those are the ones off the top of my head. EDIT: We're still like 2 gym badges away from getting the most out of the possible evolutions too. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 23:00
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But then the game wouldn't be "challenging"! What are you, some kind of scrub newbie who needs decent pokemon to stand a chance against custom-built teams that have extra bullshit mechanics added in to support them? Just be happy the creator didn't give you a luvdisc as your starting pokemon! But seriously, the thread title didn't lie when it said the game was a trainwreck.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:10
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Even if the idea is to provide a challenging experience, this game makes the fatal mistake of trying to punish the player for not playing the game the way it wants to be played, when what it SHOULD be doing is rewarding the player for playing the way it wants to be played instead. Like, imagine if instead of of what amounts to a hard level cap that greatly limits your flexibility, there are instead level "guidelines" or something of that nature where completing gyms under those restrictions grants you additional bonuses, like special held items that would otherwise only be available later or more powerful TM rewards than what you would normally get just winning via power leveling. That's just one possibility off the top of my head but there are many things of that ilk you can do if you get a bit creative. You give powerful incentives for the player to handicap themselves and play "fairly" (though this game's definition of fair is suspect as is) without making it an annoying frustration just to advance.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:25
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