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Yaws posted:I don't think you're being paid of course but I do think certain posters give the prequels a veneer of depth and malleable people have really latched onto that. Darth Malleable
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Jul 29, 2017 22:15
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Yaws posted:I don't think you're being paid of course but I do think certain posters give the prequels a veneer of depth and malleable people have really latched onto that. Nobody is giving movies a veneer of depth. Posters only talk about what is actually inside the movie. You are upset that people like a movie.
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Jul 29, 2017 22:29
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UmOk posted:I know right. Like, why do humans use guns when their brains are obviously vulnerable to bullets puncturing them? This is a much more pointed character design than that. To say that senators or civilians that tell the army what to do are "vulnerable" or whatever because they're not wearing kevlar is trivial. Everyone has skin. The reason this character is designed like that - the knight with a long neck - is to emphasize the strange position of the Jedi council and the image they cultivate. It's a deliberative body but also a paramilitary force. Wise monks that are a stones throw away from the center of power. Court gurus. A state religion that is probably widely despised. A guy like that is begging to be decapitated but he can't be touched, he's a Jedi.
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Jul 29, 2017 23:33
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It's the biological equivalent of those ridiculous looking crowns the council of Krypton wear in Man of Steel, basically.
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Jul 30, 2017 00:05
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have you heard the tragedy of darth prequelius the wise i thought not. it's not a story the thread will tell you. they say he was so powerful and so wise that he could use the reading to influence the prequels and create... depth
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Jul 30, 2017 02:31
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Milky Moor posted:have you heard the tragedy of darth prequelius the wise 
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Jul 30, 2017 02:36
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Everyone has skin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9JPF3pn5O4
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Jul 30, 2017 02:49
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Milky Moor posted:have you heard the tragedy of darth prequelius the wise 
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Jul 30, 2017 03:23
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Yaws posted:I don't think you're being paid of course but I do think certain posters give the prequels a veneer of depth and malleable people have really latched onto that. The idea that people derive meanings from things is a truism: its a basic function of consciousness that gives us the ability to form concepts. To disregard the value of people giving meaning to things is to disregard reasoning. The nuance comes from whether these derivations resonate. What is so offensive about these readings is the sense of unearned deviations from what you perceive to be the official story, the "immanent" content within the Star Wars prequels. But this "depth" via alternative readings is exactly the same content: they deviate from the general consensus because they assess this content using different axioms. They typically disregard the "official story," e.g., a filmmaker can make a movie that is plot-wise anti-facist, but the texture of the film itself is facist. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 05:36
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tbqh i gained a new level of appreciation for the prequels after seeing TFA wish disney would pay the price for their lack of vision imho
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Jul 30, 2017 06:20
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Milky Moor posted:tbqh i gained a new level of appreciation for the prequels after seeing TFA
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Jul 30, 2017 10:44
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If only more people could be free thinkers like the guys who use the same prequel-critical memes that everyone else uses.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:40
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PostNouveau posted:Some photos leaked. They're all boring except for Snoke. Lookit this poo poo! Snoke is going to be Darth Plagueis that Palpatine was talking about in RotS because Disney is incapable of doing original ideas.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:55
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Why would that be bad? It would thematically make much more sense than some random new bad guy. Like, Palpatine was a truly supernatural, satan-esque character who puppet-strings the entire 6 movies. He created the main character of the films out of thin air. He's in essence a meta-author that stands above the rest of the films. The entire series is set in motion and revolves around his supernatural control of the galaxy. How do you follow that up with just some bad dude with force powers? That makes no sense. Jewmanji fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 17:20
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The original trilogy literally used the same bad guy in all three movies. Also two out of three featured Death Stars in the same roles.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:23
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UmOk posted:The original trilogy literally used the same bad guy in all three movies. Also two out of three featured Death Stars in the same roles. How funny is it that Disney took that Lucas quote on poetry literally.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:26
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RedSpider posted:How funny is it that Disney took that Lucas quote on poetry literally. You do realize that this isn't out of the norm? Like, have you seen what used to be the canon sequel to all this stuff? If you think repetition is bad, then I suggest staying away from that. Also, what quote? Also, Darth Plagueis was Muun. Snoke has been confirmed human.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:46
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Sheev made Darth Plagues up.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:56
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RedSpider posted:How funny is it that Disney took that Lucas quote on poetry literally. What? The "poetry" and "rhyming" are what makes Star Warts good. My post was an observation for you. So, I guess the prequels are good since they used different villains for each movie?
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Jul 30, 2017 18:10
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UmOk posted:What? The "poetry" and "rhyming" are what makes Star Warts good. My post was an observation for you. That is one of the few positives about the prequels. And giving Darth Maul less than 5 lines in the entire film was criminal.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:20
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I think it would be nice if the Disney era were more sacrilegious and 'rhymed' a bit less -- the best things about TFA are when it takes apart a sacred cow, like Han and Leia's breakup. But even then that's the committee-mandated sacred cow slaughter as a sop to the reviewers who can then insert "...but it's not just a retread of the Star WarsŪ we know and love thanks to this one thing!" (And they don't hate each other enough). I would respect them more if they simply went in a completely different direction from the off. To be worthwhile, a derivative product needs a good heresy. Snoke needs to be something genuinely interesting like a George Lucas analogue or the quadrillionaire Finance Secretary of the Republic or Zeus' equivalent to Kylo Ren. I dunno. Otherwise he seems set to be disappointing, I don't think he will transcend other villains or colour how we see the Emperor and the previous films that significantly. Disney will stay in their lane because why, as a producer, would you do otherwise? The original characters become interchangeable 'roles' and the original films become 'genres' with their own audience expectations. Oh, and you own the entire genre. Why would you gently caress with the program?
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Jul 30, 2017 18:53
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I mean, he sure looks like a guy who unnaturally extends his own life. I'm less interested in his origin than in his goals, however.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:56
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Bongo Bill posted:I mean, he sure looks like a guy who unnaturally extends his own life. I hope he is just Space-Trump and doing whatever strokes his ego. Bonus if he doesn't really care about the First Orders goals as long as they praise what a good job he is doing.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:05
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UmOk posted:I hope he is just Space-Trump and doing whatever strokes his ego. Bonus if he doesn't really care about the First Orders goals as long as they praise what a good job he is doing. I don't think that would square with his mentorship of Kylo Ren.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:06
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J_RBG posted:I think it would be nice if the Disney era were more sacrilegious and 'rhymed' a bit less -- the best things about TFA are when it takes apart a sacred cow, like Han and Leia's breakup. But even then that's the committee-mandated sacred cow slaughter as a sop to the reviewers who can then insert "...but it's not just a retread of the Star WarsŪ we know and love thanks to this one thing!" (And they don't hate each other enough). lol Snoke being deformed is ripped off from the Emperor.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:15
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RedSpider posted:That is one of the few positives about the prequels. And giving Darth Maul less than 5 lines in the entire film was criminal. lines not make one great
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Jul 30, 2017 19:40
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Covok posted:
Legends Plagueis is Muun, whether the canon one is too isn't clear.
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Jul 30, 2017 20:28
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Outlandish theory time- he's a guy who was horribly scarred during a battle between the Rebels and the Empire even though he was just a civilian, maybe he lost his family or something equally tragic, so he turned to the Dark Side because gently caress the Rebels and gently caress the New Republic and let's burn it all down. It wouldn't necessarily be a GOOD way for the story to go but it would be a very modern way.
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Jul 30, 2017 21:07
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sassassin posted:Sheev made Darth Plagues up. I always thought so but as has been pointed out he doesn't lie elsewhere in the movies so Idk
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Jul 30, 2017 22:08
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euphronius posted:I always thought so but as has been pointed out he doesn't lie elsewhere in the movies so He calls it a "Sith legend," and Sheev wasn't saying that Darth Plague was a real person, but that it was possible to prevent someone's death with the force, and that the Sith knew how. Which was true, as Sheev demonstrates when he staves off Anakin's certain death from burning and dismemberment.
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Jul 30, 2017 22:22
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RedSpider posted:Snoke is going to be Darth Plagueis that Palpatine was talking about in RotS because Disney is incapable of doing original ideas. And yet they don't recreate Kriea, possibly the best villain that could fit their weird thematic plan of eliminating both the Jedi and the Sith. Maybe even build up the force as something other than just a supernatural hippy/fascism power source.
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Jul 30, 2017 22:32
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As a reminder, there is no guarantee that snoke is Darth Plagueis. That's just speculation of some motherfucker just did. Snoke can be any and is implied to be from the unknown regions. Hell, he could just be a powerful Dark Side user. I mean, was the emperor any different before all of the EU and prequels expanding on him?
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Jul 30, 2017 22:48
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Jewmanji posted:Why would that be bad? It would thematically make much more sense than some random new bad guy. I mean, the protagonists in the first six were the Chosen One and his kids, whereas the protagonist for the new movies may simply be a girl who is good at the Force for no particular reason, so Snoke just being some guy who uses the Force good would make sense as the ultimate antagonist for Rey. J_RBG posted:I think it would be nice if the Disney era were more sacrilegious and 'rhymed' a bit less -- the best things about TFA are when it takes apart a sacred cow, like Han and Leia's breakup. But even then that's the committee-mandated sacred cow slaughter as a sop to the reviewers who can then insert "...but it's not just a retread of the Star WarsŪ we know and love thanks to this one thing!" (And they don't hate each other enough). The problem with the Han and Leia thing is that it doesn't seem like a choice they made because of what made the most sense for the characters, but because they wanted to include the old characters while simultaneously repeating the general plot and world of the originals. It's like what Alien 3 did with Ripley's loved ones more than following the natural progression of those characters. This is made abundantly clear when you look at how they talk about the writing process of these movies, Luke was sent to that old temple because they didn't want him to overshadow the new characters but they still wanted the old actors in it, Rian Johnson even said Abrams and co. didn't have any plan for why Luke did that.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:19
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It doesn't really matter whether the writers knew what they were writing; they still put it into the movie. Luke went in search of the ancient Jedi temple in order to understand the history of the Jedi. And since we, the audience, understand the history of the Jedi as well, from that time we watched the movies about how that history ended, we know what he found there. We have also got a pretty good idea of why a Jedi would go into exile after seeing a promising pupil become a mass murderer.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:51
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Not really, because Yoda and Obi-Wan were still waiting to try and help save the galaxy. They didn't just give up on everything, and the galactic situation was more stacked against them. Based on when the incident with the academy happened, Luke still had the New Republic, Leia, and the rest of his friends, with whom he could've joined and helped stop the First Order from growing in power. Considering Ben was beaten by a kid who had only just started to know how to use the Force, the First Order doesn't have nearly as much hegemony over galactic affairs as the Empire did, and we have no knowledge of how powerful Snoke is, there's less of a justification for why Luke just quit. That's my point, Rian Johnson admitted that this was one of the biggest challenges for him, explaining why Luke did what he did.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:12
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Yoda and Obi-Wan are still dumb and wrong about everything in episodes 4 and 5. Luke ignores their nonsense, throws down his lightsaber, and wins.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:16
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Well, not really, but that's not really the point I'm making anyway. If anything, the fact that Luke is supposed to be succeeding where they failed is all the more reason why Disney's choice for how to prevent Luke from upstaging the new characters was lazy and not really a natural extension of where the character was left in the originals.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:23
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Beeez posted:The problem with the Han and Leia thing is that it doesn't seem like a choice they made because of what made the most sense for the characters, but because they wanted to include the old characters while simultaneously repeating the general plot and world of the originals. I don't usually worry too much about 'how things got into the movie', pure chance created the final shot of Barton Fink, which is brilliant. I think it would still work even if it was for totally cynical reasons.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:45
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Han and Leia not being together makes complete sense. The EU's handling of their relationship and sidelining Leia as a political leader were both really dumb, and TFA fixed both those mistakes.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:51
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I never said it could never make sense, I'm saying that it's one of the many things in the movie that mostly exists as a lazy way to solve mandatory plot points rather than something they put a lot of thought into from a character standpoint. Something can theoretically make sense without actually working for the movie in practice, for a variety of reasons. This is a common problem with sequels, they often lack any real reason for existing beyond "thing was popular so make more thing", and the fact that sometimes sequels can ascend beyond that doesn't mean it always works out that way. And TFA makes the same mistake the EU made of not really delving into the fact that Leia is strong in the Force on any real level beyond her looking sad when Kylo Ren murders Han. Besides, she's a nominal force politically, that's why she's the General of a ragtag band of fighters while the New Republic pays her, and her war, no mind.
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Jul 31, 2017 04:28
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