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Voyager I posted:That's regular teachings (with maybe a single copy of Capsize and Curse of the Bloody Tome as well). I was figuring the point of the extra 30 cards was so you could just dispense entirely with petty things like 'win conditions' and just rely on having a thicker library than your opponent. maybe mill is the primary wincon but the 90 card builds still run 4x talisman 4x justice https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/652825#online
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Jul 26, 2017 18:02
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Voyager I posted:That's regular teachings (with maybe a single copy of Capsize and Curse of the Bloody Tome as well). I was figuring the point of the extra 30 cards was so you could just dispense entirely with petty things like 'win conditions' and just rely on having a thicker library than your opponent. I think you can also Capsize everything and hit them with Dinrova Horrors probably? Oh nevermind, that build runs no creatures. Interesting.
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Jul 26, 2017 18:11
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in other bad pauper deck news I played against that self-mill fog deck with battlefield scrounger as the wincon and it turns out they can't really beat a bojuka bog lol the bad pauper deck was my u/b trinket mage control
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Jul 26, 2017 18:15
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little munchkin posted:maybe mill is the primary wincon but the 90 card builds still run 4x talisman 4x justice https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/652825#online The 60 card version of this deck is very relaxing to play but I wouldn't want to run a league with it.
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Jul 26, 2017 19:02
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My White Weenie opponent decided to be a slow butt at the end of game 1 to try to run my clock down, so I let them and ended up eating several minutes off their clock without risking my own. Game 2 was a cakewalk (because it's White Weenie) and my opponent was playing slowly and I was way up on time and the game was locked up and I wasn't planning on playing another match, so I decided to have a little fun: I bounced all their permanents back with Horror, then I attacked for lethal, cast Prismatic Strands (naming Blue), flashed it back (naming White) to prevent my lethal damage, then I forced them to draw their library by casting Compulsive Research many times (over the course of three turns) and then passed the turn. They ran out of time before they could draw for their turn. Dead by damage, time and decking out while also having zero permanents is a rough way to go. It isn't enough to win. You need to crush your opponent's spirit.
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Jul 28, 2017 09:52
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How the gently caress does White Weenies get clocked by a flicker combo deck????
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Jul 28, 2017 17:07
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Ran Esper familiars at a paper pauper event and went 2-2. Round 1 was a 1-2 vs Dinrova Tron that ran an unusually large number of counterspells. He was able to disrupt me long enough to start bouncing my lands after which it was all over. Round 2 was a 2-1 vs Tortured existence. This is a really weird matchup as both decks are locking combat out. His gameplan devolved into trying to kill me by recurring crypt rats over and over before I drew into a horror and bounced all his black mana. In the first game the board was so stalled that I reverted to trying to mill him out which I shouldn't have done although it didn't cost me a game. Online trying to bounce a ton lands and a huge board of creatures is so time consuming that doing it game 1 may cost me the match. In paper it would have taken like 60 seconds once I drew into the Horror so I should have just stuck with the primary gameplan. Round 3 was 2-0 vs Stompy and was extremely satisfying. This deck just obliterates Stompy and it wasn't close. Round 4 was a 1-2 vs Mono U Delver. Really felt like I shouldn't have lost this game, Game 1 I probably made several mistakes that led directly to my loss, Game 2 I was able to resolve a CoP which just locked the game long enough that I was able to assemble a Horror flicker combo to win and game 3 The deck just stumbled with no acceleration - no familiars and no bounce-lands to snap with so I just wasn't able to keep up and got run over. Probably going to drop 2 or 3 of the Hydroblasts from the board, at least in paper. There's just very few decks with enough red to justify it at this store. Besides some splashes from Tron/Tortured Existence that weren't worth boarding in Hydro for the only players in the room worth boarding it in vs were a singular UR Delver (who I've already got 3 CoP:Blue for) and an affinity player. Thinking about bringing in some combination of Dispel, Negate and maybe possibly Duress.
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Jul 30, 2017 06:00
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You need Hydroblasts for specifically Affinity so you aren't cold to Atog + Fling. If you don't care about that, they help against Burn and other Molten Rain decks but they're not necessary (though keep at least one to Teachings for.) Hydroblast usually isn't worth bringing in solely for Pyroblast, so I don't bother bringing them in against UR Delver. I'd rather just have Prismatic Strands to fight against Swirling Sandstorm. Online I really like Hydroblast because I'm going to play 3+ Burn or Affinity decks per league. Voyager I posted:How the gently caress does White Weenies get clocked by a flicker combo deck???? Playing badly and slowly and trying to time me out when I'm one of the fastest players on MTGO. If I spend 15 seconds and drain a minute off my opponent's clock doing nothing much at all, I will repeat that sequence repeatedly until my opponent plays faster or figures it out and concedes. e: I'm really unhappy that WotC still hasn't put loving Custodi Squire onto MTGO because I'm brewing a 5-color Familiars deck and I would really enjoy having it as an option. e2: I'm playing a horrible deck, since I'm just playing five color Familiars, but I have a Mountain and four Pyroblast and Dinrova Tron cannot beat four Pyroblasts. It's actually absurd how badly that deck folds to Pyroblast. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 06:11
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Okay another effort-post coming. First, don't play this deck. It's a mess. https://pastebin.com/T099Hh97  Here's some of the things I've learned from playing lots of Flicker decks - 1) You want a way to gain a mana advantage. Bouncelands, Tronlands, Familiars, whatever. You need to be able to actually cast all the cards you're drawing. 2) You will outgrind everything. You're playing so many card advantage creatures AND card advantage lands AND you have Brainstorm + fetchs to shuffle bad cards away AND you have Teachings + Reaping to devastate the counterspell decks. It comes to the point where my opponents cast Chittering Rats and I am happy because it means I don't need to discard if I play a bounceland. When your opponents are playing Phyrexian Rager and Chittering Rats, and you're playing Sea Gate Oracles and Mulldrifters, you're just going to bury them in cards. Your opponents cast Kor Skyfisher, return a Prism, and play it again? Wow they cast a 3W 2/3 Flying draw a card! And then you untap, evoke a Mulldrifter, and Flicker a Mulldrifter and Oracle and you have all the cards. So yeah you win if you're both grinding. 3) Pyroblast is absurd against your worst matchups. Dinrova Tron folds impressively hard to Pyroblasts and Tron is certainly the deck's worst matchup. They always have Tron and a color filter. Being able to counter their blue spells for one mana allows you to counter their only cards that do things for little risk. 4) Stonehorn Dignitary wins the lovely creature deck matchups by itself, and makes you have near automatic wins against Bogles, Elves, Stompy, White Weenie, Slivers, Gond Combo, Infect, and any other lovely creature deck that I'm forgetting. It also gives you a game plan against Affinity (with some answer to Atog/Fling), Kiln Fiend and Tireless Tribe combo decks (they can actually interact, though), and it helps to build a gameplan against the various Kor Skyfisher/Battle Screech-based grindy decks though it's mostly good for just stopping an attack to give you breathing room. 5) Black is necessary, if only for Teachings flashback, but having access to Dinrova Horror is, I believe, vital, and there is nothing in any other color that gives you the inevitability while also being playable on MTGO. I believe that in paper I could make a Jeskai version that tries to use Capsize in place of Horror to lock up games, but that's not a feasible plan on MTGO. If you can just say to your opponent, okay you skip the next 100 attack steps, I gain 1 billion life, and I'll bounce these permanents, but that doesn't work on MTGO because you can't try to Snap back Lone Missionaries and loop those for too long or you WILL time out. Also I believe a Jeskai version would need access to Custodi Squire to ensure you can outgrind, which would be fine in paper, but not on MTGO. Also, Snap + Flicker + two Walls + two bouncelands + three Familiars makes infinite non-blue mana, and that's actually an acceptable end game plan if you have a useful spell to put that mana into, but it's not doable online. 6) If you're playing four colors, you can't play gain lands. The manabase is simply too difficult to make work without a LOT of help from bad lands like Shimmering Grotto and Crumbling Sanctuary. Relying on resolving a color filter, or spiking the specific gain land or bounceland for the color you need, it too inconsistent. It's possible that playing one of each basic would be worthwhile, I'm just worried about not having a large enough amount of blue mana. Because of this... 7) If you're playing four colors, there's no difference to playing five colors if you have a card you want. Pulse of Murasa lets you have a prayer against Burn game 1, which you otherwise don't with zero gain lands, while also being able to use that slot to outgrind other decks. 8) Sunscape Familiar is also a better creature than Nightscape Familiar. An 0/3 is just better than a Drudge Skeletons. However, making red spells cost less seems much better than making green spells cost less, with one exception. There are a lot more good red sideboard cards, like Ingot Chewer or Shattering Pulse or Ancient Grudge or whatever red X spell you want to play, and there basically aren't any good green cards. That one exception is key - Pulse of --- holy poo poo I forgot about Sprout Swarm, one second. Yeah okay that works, rebuild time. Anyway making Pulse cost G can let you gain a LOT of life very, very quickly if you can get the right bounceland and some Familiars. 9) Prismatic Lens was actually great. Being able to run it out turn 2, play an Oracle and then a bounceland and not have to discard, and then have mana on turn 4 to run out a Mulldrifter feels really good. Prism sucked. Paying 2 mana to draw a card feels horrible. The first Prism is fine if you land it early since having something in play to Flicker helps, but the second Prism feels horrendous. Anyway so uh, can we just jam a loving Sprout Swarm as the win condition? Four Familiars + Sprout Swarm = infinite tokens. Huh. poo poo that was a convenient moment of clarity. So, you're probably going to keep splashing black for the Teachings flashback, since being able to find the Sprout Swarm gives Teachings even more utility, but you don't really need a Swamp for that. Can we just cut Horror, shunt the Reaping to the sideboard for the grindy matchups and rely on Pulse for bringing back dead/countered walls, and make lots of Saprolings to win extremely quickly? Hm. Gonna have to try this. If this doesn't work, I'm gonna need to work pretty hard to fit everything in. Supporting black for Horror and also having enough red to support four Pyroblasts is pretty difficult. e: gonna run this tomorrow in the Pauper Challenge, probably with no testing. https://pastebin.com/ESBjiETG  I've either broke it or I'm about to trainwreck. e2: hm, maybe I should swap to Dimir Aqueducts for Teachings flashbacks since I only need one green mana and have a Forest + Ash Barrens. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 09:58
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I'm starting to get the hang of the white/black/blue flicker deck, and it's a lot of fun. It does, uh, really rely on being as fast rear end hellsau talks about as most of the Good Stuff it does relies on combos with flickers, dark ritualing with snaps, etc - and with snaps + familiars the mana math is not straightforward at all so its easy to get behind on time. But it's really worth it once your opponent realizes that with the walls+snaps+horror+flicker, you can wipe their entire board in one turn.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:52
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Went 3-3 in the Pauper Challenge, died to Affinity twice due to hilarious MTGO shuffler shenanigans and lost to Tron by flooding out extremely hard. I would have beaten the Tron nut draw (Mine, Plant Prism, Tower) except it went into the very late game and I drew land, land, Brainstorm into three lands (none of them Ash Barrens) which is just what the gently caress ever MTGO. Losing to Affinity was extremely unpleasant because in the top thirty cards I drew an Oracle, two Mulldrifters, a Wall, and zero other card draw spells. No Compulsives, no Flickers, no Teachings. I found a Brainstorm, Brainstormed into 2 lands and a Brainstorm (no Ash Barrens), waited a turn, drew a card, Brainstormed into two lands and a Lens, no Ash Barrens and died to Atog Fling. Apparently Stompy won the thing and I never faced Stompy, beating Tron, Slivers and White Weenie. e: also got 33rd, so didn't even get my entry fee back. My first round Slivers opponent went 0-4 which kind of torpedoed my tiebreakers. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 01:16
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Took a bit of a break from SA and I come back to a lot of posts on here. My local MTGO Pauper league kind of died. Do we have enough interest to try to do a goon league?
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Aug 2, 2017 02:34
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 Stompy players are the saltiest dogs, and that's including the people who don't play Wild Mongrel, the original salty dog.
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Aug 2, 2017 22:14
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So since I've been playing 40k at my flgs, I've met a handful of the guys that play at the pauper nights at my flgs. I'm teaching a few of them 40k, they've been teaching me Magic. I am still learning how to navigate certain types of decks, but I've seen a few energy decks get played in other formats, and they look really fun. Are there any energy decks that are particularly fun/interesting in pauper? I'm not looking for powerful decks to obliterate my opponent or anything, everyone that comes to pauper nights are chill and fun. I just wanted to play something unique, and different from burn and mono decks.
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Nov 13, 2017 04:47
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There's probably no decent payoff cards in common for energy. The good ones will all be rare or uncommon.
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Nov 13, 2017 06:14
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Energy is a potential Modern Masters sub-theme in 2023 if you're willing to wait. All we need is a rarity downshit on Whirler Virtuoso and Harnessed Lightning, maybe Rogue Refiner and Longtusk Cub. But yeah all the energy payoffs are uncommon or mythic so there isn't an energy deck because even if you can make quite a lot of energy, it just sits there.
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Nov 13, 2017 06:39
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Dang. Thanks anyways  . I like the idea of having other resources to mess with besides life and mana.
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Nov 13, 2017 16:19
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Dang. Thanks anyways Could we interest you in the wide world of Infect?
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Nov 13, 2017 17:47
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Go on... 
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Nov 13, 2017 17:53
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Go on... In general, this is the absolute best resource for getting started in building pauper decks: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper Here is a link specifically to the infect archetype: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/playing-pauper-mono-green-infect Infect is no longer a major part of the metagame ever since Invigorate was banned. If you can get away with playing Invigorate with your playgroup, you'll murder them. Here is a link to the old UG archetype: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...r-pauper-infect
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Nov 13, 2017 19:28
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So from my internet digging, I've found a few decks that seem like a bunch of fun to play. Izzet Blitz, Infect, and this budget as gently caress deck https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/824480#paper My buddy that's helping me said it could be fun with a few tweaks, and the thought of a sub $20 deck is intriguing. I'm not trying to jump into the scene to stop people or anything, I just wanna have some fun, maybe win a few games with weird decks. My ideal scenario would be to be to be able to draft and play pauper to win some store credit to alleviate some of the price on 40k, while having some fun. Edit: it seems as though I've contradicted myself regarding the Izzet Blitz and not wanting to stomp people  I know it's designed for a turn 3/4 win, and I guess the same could be said about infect, I just like the mechanics of building a combo to pump a creature, and/or having some other mechanic to work with besides Mana.
Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 19:40
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If you want to play a creature combo deck, Lead the Stampede (freshly downshifted to common in Iconic Masters) makes Elves substantially better. You run 38-40 creatures, and getting three to five creatures off of a Lead the Stampede makes it much less likely that the opponent can just kill your few cards that matter and ignore the rest. A control deck used to be able to kill your Timberwatches, Huntmasters, big Elvish Vanguards and early Priests and just ignore your random manadorks since they can just play a 1/3 and laugh. Now the Elves deck can run 4x Distant Melody and 4x Lead the Stampede and at least put some pressure on the control decks to answer their dorks. Even though this deck runs 12 Forests, and therefore has to mulligan a lot, I also flood out an unreasonable amount, drawing 7+ lands in 20 cards. It's pretty dumb! e: just went 5-0, against UG LD (how the gently caress are people still playing that garbage?), Tron with Moment's Peace AND Dinrova Horror which is apparently a thing now, Mono-blue Delver, Burn, and Elves in the finals who also was 4-0. Maybe Elves is great!? My build is almost certainly wrong, Nettle Sentinel should be swapped out for Vanguards and/or Visionaries, and it probably needs the full four Sylvan Rangers, but this is what I ran:  https://pastebin.com/G7b4pZ9m Hellsau fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Nov 18, 2017 |
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Nov 18, 2017 08:38
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So a buddy of mine straight up gave me his Eldrazi Poultice deck, and it's real gimmicky, and kinda hard to pull off, but it seems neat. Is there any way to improve it, or, is there another deck I can build into easily using a few of these cards that would be more viable? 4 Battered Golem 4 Nettle Drone 4 Elusive Spellfist 2 Golem Foundry 4 Herbal Poultice 4 Welding Jar 1 Apostle's Blessing 4 Banishing Knack 3 Dispel 4 Ponder 3 Preordain 4 Retraction Helix 4 Swiftwater Cliffs 4 Evolving Wilds 10 Island 1 Mountain 2 Apostle's Blessing 1 Dispel 2 Electrickery 2 Hydroblast 1 Kozilek's Sentinel 2 Negate 3 Pyroblast 2 Smelt Edit: CompeAnansi posted:In general, this is the absolute best resource for getting started in building pauper decks: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/pauper#paper Thanks for this by the way! I did some asking around at the store and yeah, invigorate is legal there, though I was informed playing infect would make me "that guy", which was also encouraged because it would be funny. Especially with white border, terrible lands in nice sleeves. Kabuki Shipoopi fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 18, 2017 |
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Nov 18, 2017 18:09
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Thanks for this by the way! I did some asking around at the store and yeah, invigorate is legal there, though I was informed playing infect would make me "that guy", which was also encouraged because it would be funny. Especially with white border, terrible lands in nice sleeves. No problem. Invigorate infect was one of my favorite pauper decks back in the day. It's hilarious to kill people out of nowhere.
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Nov 19, 2017 00:57
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Hellsau posted:If you want to play a creature combo deck, Lead the Stampede (freshly downshifted to common in Iconic Masters) makes Elves substantially better. You run 38-40 creatures, and getting three to five creatures off of a Lead the Stampede makes it much less likely that the opponent can just kill your few cards that matter and ignore the rest. A control deck used to be able to kill your Timberwatches, Huntmasters, big Elvish Vanguards and early Priests and just ignore your random manadorks since they can just play a 1/3 and laugh. Now the Elves deck can run 4x Distant Melody and 4x Lead the Stampede and at least put some pressure on the control decks to answer their dorks. What are your thoughts on cutting some Forests and running Land Grant in their place? Looks like the only time it'd bite you in the rear end is when your opening hand is Island and Land Grant.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:26
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PJOmega posted:What are your thoughts on cutting some Forests and running Land Grant in their place? Looks like the only time it'd bite you in the rear end is when your opening hand is Island and Land Grant. i feel that giving away information is losing more value than you're gaining from the deck thinning. The challenge of playing against elves is wisely using a limited amount of removal/counterspells. Do you bolt that mana elf to slow down their development or save it for a payoff card? Land Grant gives your opponent the answer to that question.
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Dec 6, 2017 22:45
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little munchkin posted:i feel that giving away information is losing more value than you're gaining from the deck thinning. The challenge of playing against elves is wisely using a limited amount of removal/counterspells. Do you bolt that mana elf to slow down their development or save it for a payoff card? Land Grant gives your opponent the answer to that question. Fair and reasonable. I'm getting worse because I've been playing local pauper and man is it not a good meta.w
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Dec 6, 2017 23:08
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PJOmega posted:What are your thoughts on cutting some Forests and running Land Grant in their place? Looks like the only time it'd bite you in the rear end is when your opening hand is Island and Land Grant. I'm 2-0 with a 9 forest 4 Land Grant version. I lost a game where I drew 7 forests and played 3 Land Grants in 22 cards, it was real absurd, so I don't know if the thinning actually matters because lol mtgo. Mono-Blue Delver is a good matchup which feels nice. Losing Distant Melody is a drag but being able to cut Birchlores and Sylvan Rangers for Vanguards and Visionaries and not run the Island makes it a lot more consistent. With Lead the Stampede, I was considering cutting down to 2 or 3 Distant Melodies to avoid getting hands clogged with draw spells, and at the point where I'm splashing a second color for only a couple cards I think it's much better to avoid the inconsistency in exchange for less powerful nut draws.  https://pastebin.com/PRDZGyDh
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Dec 7, 2017 00:45
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I'm kind of kicking around the idea of getting back into pauper. Is Mono-Black Control still a really good deck in the format, and is Oubliette necessary for it to work well? I was also kind of considering a blue or white splash for flicker spells to get more value out of Chittering Rats/Phyrexian Rager/Gray Merchant of Asphodel.
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Dec 14, 2017 18:58
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Matsuri posted:I'm kind of kicking around the idea of getting back into pauper. Is Mono-Black Control still a really good deck in the format, and is Oubliette necessary for it to work well? I was also kind of considering a blue or white splash for flicker spells to get more value out of Chittering Rats/Phyrexian Rager/Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Monoblack is bad, even with Thorn of the Black Rose, because there's plenty of better draw engines around and the big mana decks eat it for lunch. Oubliette is probably still good as fuel for Gray Merchant, except on MTGO it's also extremely bugged such that if it gets removed from the battlefield it'll restart the game and possibly soft lock one player until they concede, so...yeah. Dunno if it's any better in real life where you can actually finish your matches without game ending bugs.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:15
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Dang. What happened? A year or so ago, it was a really popular deck.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:24
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Matsuri posted:Dang. What happened? A year or so ago, it was a really popular deck. 
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Dec 14, 2017 19:56
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Matsuri posted:Dang. What happened? A year or so ago, it was a really popular deck. Just because it was popular doesn't mean it was any good. It hasn't been good since....2013? Maybe earlier? MBC doesn't really work without some mana/draw engine, since if someone just plays a Mulldrifter you're going to lose, and every Sea Gate Oracle or Augur of Bolas or Mnemonic Wall or other 2-for-1 creature makes the grind-out plan that much less likely to succeed. What I'm saying is downshift Cabal Coffers to common.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:58
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Hmm. I guess I'll just have to look into something else. I have Delver, but I'm kind of bored with it.
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Dec 14, 2017 19:59
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Matsuri posted:Hmm. I guess I'll just have to look into something else. I have Delver, but I'm kind of bored with it. UB control is probably still great if you don't mind losing every match against Tron. Just don't play the Gurmag Angler version because it is bad. e: by losing every match to Tron you win every match against Delver and Elves https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/692075#paper
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Dec 14, 2017 20:01
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Hellsau posted:What I'm saying is downshift Necropotence to common. FTFY For real though, they could at least downshift cards like Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper, etc. Not sure how much that would help MBC though overall.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:02
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The Shortest Path posted:FTFY Both of those are commons. Paying 2 mana for a 2 for 1 that doesn't effect the board is pretty awful against opponents who play a creature and get a card, because MBC doesn't win when it plays 11 lands and gets its Corrupt countered.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:04
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I hadn't realized they downshifted Night's Whisper in EMA! But yeah that still sucks against control I guess.
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Dec 14, 2017 20:12
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So this is the infect deck I've been running:code:I've been playing a lot on xmage which helps me understand how the deck works, but when playing in real life, I don't have the hand holding of the software and I mess up a ton. Are there any fun little infographs or something that would help me remember the phases and what can be used when?
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Dec 14, 2017 21:19
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:So this is the infect deck I've been running: Ranger's Guile is another anti-removal pump spell.
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Dec 14, 2017 21:40
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