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joedevola posted:I know it's not really on topic, but I just finished Doom 2016 and I loved it but... why are boss battles still a thing? If you're talking about first person shooters I kind of agree but there are plenty of other genres with fantastic boss battles and most of them are from Japanese devs. The Souls series, Platinum's games, and things like Binary Domain would be way worse without great boss battles. e: Bulletstorm had the plant thing you could slide around forever but other than that its boss battles were bad I remember thinking the Painkiller bosses were cool but looking back holy poo poo they're bad and I think I only liked all the physics objects flying around in this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZaH2kP_72M Yodzilla fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 00:51
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The only boss battle I've ever loved was the sniper showdown between Snake and The End.  That was goddamned art.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:29
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I don't remember Bulletstorm having any boss battles other than the plant thing. General Serrano maybe if you count a handful of QTEs as a boss fight.
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Jul 31, 2017 03:48
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I enjoyed Doom 2016's boss battles as far as they went, but I'd be all in favor of moving back towards a model more like the OG cyberdemon, rather than the Doom3/DO4M cyberdemons. Where it's a particularly deadly solo enemy, but not one that only works in a very specifically scripted arena fight.
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Jul 31, 2017 04:07
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Doom 2016's boss battles gave me big Ys-like vibes, and I felt like that was a very good thing
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Jul 31, 2017 04:36
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JerryLee posted:I enjoyed Doom 2016's boss battles as far as they went, but I'd be all in favor of moving back towards a model more like the OG cyberdemon, rather than the Doom3/DO4M cyberdemons. Where it's a particularly deadly solo enemy, but not one that only works in a very specifically scripted arena fight. I don't enjoy boss fights that are just an upscaled enemy with a big gun and a giant health pool that acts effectively like every enemy in the game.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:07
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Aside from Doom, Vanquish is really the only (3rd-person) shooter that manages to toss around entertaining boss fights at every opportunity. I think the issue is that most FPS bosses tend to fall somewhere between two categories: 1. "Giant mountain of Hitpoints" boss that otherwise engages you like any other enemy in the game (RTCW's Heinrich, Killing Floor's bosses, and pretty much every early FPS game that was ever published) 2. A shooting/platforming puzzle that shoots at you, wherein the player must wait for the right opportunity to put the boss in a vulnerable state to damage it, then repeat. (Fontaine from Bioshock, Serious Sam's Ugh Zahn, The New Order's bosses) Vanquish (and Binary Domain, which I should really get around to replaying sometime) fall into these trappings, too, but they usually give the player lots of influence in how they want to deal with the encounter: Destroying limbs, removing weakpoint shields, etc. They also bother with giving their bosses enough attacks and behaviors to keep the fights from getting repetitive.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:19
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The DLC for Dues Ex Human Revolution had a fun boss fight. He basically talks poo poo and goads you into fighting him for the entire level set, but you can sneak behind him and instantly stealth kill him.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:21
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Honestly, the only shooter bosses that I can really remember are Shub-Niggurath and Splatoon's final boss. I guess DUMP3's Benellus fight, too, for being sort of a bullet hell shmup boss fused with the aforementioned "giant mountain of HP" boss type.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:28
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Diabetes Forecast posted:I don't enjoy boss fights that are just an upscaled enemy with a big gun and a giant health pool that acts effectively like every enemy in the game. I mean, don't misunderstand what I mean with the OG Cyberdemon example. Obviously now he's just an enemy with a bigger gun and bigger health pool, because we've had 23 years of seeing him being used as a big but routine enemy rather than a (semi-)unique episode boss. The point is precisely that he was both a legitimate boss battle for the point in their Doom careers at which many people encountered him, and usable as a miniboss/upscaled enemy later on, because he didn't have a special gimmick like the Soul Cube. If you understand that and your position is that the Cyberdemon was an unenjoyable boss fight even in 1993, well, vive la différence.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:55
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JerryLee posted:I mean, don't misunderstand what I mean with the OG Cyberdemon example. Obviously now he's just an enemy with a bigger gun and bigger health pool, because we've had 23 years of seeing him being used as a big but routine enemy rather than a (semi-)unique episode boss. The point is precisely that he was both a legitimate boss battle for the point in their Doom careers at which many people encountered him, and usable as a miniboss/upscaled enemy later on, because he didn't have a special gimmick like the Soul Cube. Heretic had the Minotaurs and they were alot more fun to fight, though really that's speaking as a kid that had Heretic first. I don't even particularly enjoy the Duke3D bosses because they're equally bad about being the Cyberdemon just with maybe with a different attack. shoot until dead etc. FPS games rarely have good bosses, come to think of it. Diabetes Forecast fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 08:15
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Yeah, the Maulotaurs had more diversity in their attack patterns, which is arguably a good thing. I like the Heresiarch for the same reason.
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Jul 31, 2017 08:35
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In the two levels where they're used as bosses, the Maulotaurs are a pack, rather than a single enemy. Same for the Iron Liches -- several different attacks, a whole pack when bosses. D'Sparil is the only single boss in the game. The Heresiarch looks cool but its shield gimmick is really annoying. Having to wait around dodging projectiles until the shield goes away is pure tedium. Perhaps if the invulnerability period was much shorter it wouldn't be as bad. I feel like the Heresiarch should have been the real Korax, with the released game's Korax being only its mount as was very likely the plan early on. (Korax looks a lot like D'Sparil's mount, especially in profile.)
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Jul 31, 2017 09:49
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The Iron Lich is alright, but it could have been cooler.
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Jul 31, 2017 11:07
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Boss fights, in theory, provide a climactic moment, without which the game might feel incomplete. I think they're difficult to do well in FPSes because they're a type of game that prioritizes a feeling of realism, like you're actually the one running around shooting stuff. What's the best way to test that skill set? Probably fighting someone who's actually better at moving and shooting than you are. But outside multiplayer, that probably won't happen, so the next best thing is, let's have an enemy that takes forever to kill, so at least the player has to survive longer even if they're basically doing the same thing they do for the rest of the game. Or, worse, something else that feels totally out of place from the main action of the game, i.e. giant monster with weak points. The ones that succeed best IMO are the ones that compensate by having a really well-designed map that the boss is specifically programmed to take advantage of. I'm not sure what else can be done aside from sidestepping the boss concept altogether (sort of like HL2E2).
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Jul 31, 2017 18:23
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The Gonarch is the best first person shooter boss.
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Jul 31, 2017 19:09
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Every FPS game should just have you jump into a giant robot version of yourself at the end and fight a giant version of the villain, using your giant robo shotgun!
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Jul 31, 2017 19:18
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Big long set pieces like the end of HL2 Episode 2 work better since you're not just shooting at one thing until it dies, it's an onslaught of strong non-boss enemies. So you're making visible progress and killing baddies rather than just chipping away at a health bar, but it still feels suitably climactic. Boss battles are better suited for RPGs and their ilk.
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Jul 31, 2017 19:39
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Wolfenstein TNO's final boss is pretty funny because you can judge how close you are to beating it by how much of the room is on fire.RyokoTK posted:Big long set pieces like the end of HL2 Episode 2 work better since you're not just shooting at one thing until it dies, it's an onslaught of strong non-boss enemies. So you're making visible progress and killing baddies rather than just chipping away at a health bar, but it still feels suitably climactic. There are ways to do both well and poorly. See Bioshock Infinite which does the big final setpiece instead of a boss fight thing and it's awful and not fun
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Jul 31, 2017 19:44
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Clive Barker's Undying had pretty good boss fights throughout the entire game, with exception of the final boss which is just a huge jumbled mass of nonsense.
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Jul 31, 2017 19:56
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What are some good Doom campaign wads that features new weapons?
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Jul 31, 2017 20:23
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Mutant Standard posted:What are some good Doom campaign wads that features new weapons? Keep in mind that you can play most campaign wads with any gameplay/gun wad.
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Jul 31, 2017 20:29
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Mutant Standard posted:What are some good Doom campaign wads that features new weapons? Pirate Doom.
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Jul 31, 2017 20:32
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Heavy Metal posted:Every FPS game should just have you jump into a giant robot version of yourself at the end and fight a giant version of the villain, using your giant robo shotgun! Titanfall 2 campaign is absolutely fantastic and yes, you get to use a giant robo shotgun called "leadwall".
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Jul 31, 2017 23:26
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Cat Mattress posted:Pirate Doom. Mods
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Aug 1, 2017 00:13
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It's one of those too, yes.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:14
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Quake Map Jam 9: Contract Revoked for the Quoth mod is out. It contains 15 maps that, as the name suggests, use the Knave texture pack in the style of Kell's Contract Revoked and Lost Chapters episodes. It's easy on the eyes.
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Aug 1, 2017 08:46
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The Kins posted:Quake Map Jam 9: Contract Revoked for the Quoth mod is out. It contains 15 maps that, as the name suggests, use the Knave texture pack in the style of Kell's Contract Revoked and Lost Chapters episodes.  Oh wow is that what modern Q1 looks like?!
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Aug 1, 2017 12:33
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Shoehead posted:
You should also check Arcane Dimensions for a perfect example of modern Quake
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Aug 1, 2017 13:00
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I had accumulated a few minor changes for the Quake Singleplayer Starter Pack, so I finally popped them into a new "release".quote:
Usual landing page here: http://neogeographica.com/site/pages/tools/quakestarter.html Or straight to the downloads page: https://github.com/neogeographica/quakestarter/releases/latest
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Aug 2, 2017 01:58
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Sweet, thanks! I wanted to give that a go now that I'm on a Windows system for gaming.
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Aug 2, 2017 02:00
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I'm pretty sure I've noted this before, but I don't really like the added Quoth monsters from my experiences with them in the past. Though I do sorta appreciate the added variety in the techbase stages, I guess?
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Aug 2, 2017 04:00
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Follow up: I ran the cool Quake installer and wow that thing is rad. Are the music files it downloads the originals, or covers? I'd rather  the music (I have a legit steam copy) then listen to a bad cover of the original experience.Also it recommends like 3 different renderer setups. What's best for babby's first Quake playthrough? Performance isn't a concern.
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Aug 2, 2017 04:36
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Glad it worked for you! It's the original music. Among the engine choices that come with the download, mark_v.exe is the most straightforward and likely to work with everything. Visually it looks like GLQuake, although it is modifiable to make it look pixel-ier if you want (see the in-game menus and also the autoexec.cfg example file in the id1 folder). mark_v_winquake.exe looks like Winquake instead of GLQuake. The main difference visually (if you've already tweaked your GLQuake to use less texture filtering) is that the final pixel colors are restricted to an 8-bit palette, so this gives the visuals a more "crunchy" look and some interesting color banding. Some people love this, some people think it looks like hurf. mark_v_winquake also supports pixel-doubling video settings so that you can play at native LCD resolution but still have giant pixels like in 1996. The main downside to mark_v_winquake (even if you prefer the aesthetic) is that some effects in modern third-party map releases might not work in there, particularly transparency-related stuff. For the original Quake campaign or missionpacks though it should be fine (and honestly for most third-party maps too). I switch back and forth between mark_v_winquake and mark_v (or Quakespasm, which is another GLQuake-like engine) depending on what I'm in the mood for. I really like the old Winquake aesthetic but it can make my eyeballs tired after a while. ========== I could go on about reasons you might want to use Quakespasm but I would be getting a little esoteric for a first run kind of thing. mark_v or mark_v_winquake should do you fine. I guess if mark_v or mark_v_winquake don't end up performing well for you for some reason, then you could move on to trying quakespasm-sdl2.exe (from the win64 Quakespasm download) or dx9_mark_v.exe. JLaw fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 06:19
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Here's a bit of an interesting lark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7H9_8xdrpc Serious Sam, Lo Wang, and Postal Dude guest-star in an insult simulator game. http://store.steampowered.com/app/512250/OhSir_The_Insult_Simulator/ Not a retro FPS, but it's certainly an interesting foray for our one-liner-spewers.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:10
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The Kins posted:Quake Map Jam 9: Contract Revoked for the Quoth mod is out. It contains 15 maps that, as the name suggests, use the Knave texture pack in the style of Kell's Contract Revoked and Lost Chapters episodes. Don't use the "-heapsize whatever" argument that it says to in the readme, it stops at least one of the maps loading in Quakespasm. Good stuff, but that Quoth enemy that causes (unavoidable?) earthquakes can gently caress right off. As can Vorelings.
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Aug 2, 2017 21:31
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Not an FPS, but the guy that crowd-sourced buying the rights to Keen Dreams had a meltdown a few weeks back, amending a Steam game description to directly insult someone giving it a negative review, and changing his publisher name to "Gaybens flatulent rear end in a top hat". He then got banned and had all his games delisted.  Keen Dreams is no longer available on Steam 
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Aug 2, 2017 22:13
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Whoa, take a look at this mod! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O0gBrL4wzM Convex posted:Not an FPS, but the guy that crowd-sourced buying the rights to Keen Dreams had a meltdown a few weeks back, amending a Steam game description to directly insult someone giving it a negative review, and changing his publisher name to "Gaybens flatulent rear end in a top hat". He then got banned and had all his games delisted. I picked up Keen Dreams a while ago, but that really sucks for anyone who hadn't bought it yet. Is there any other way or place where it could be sold again? Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 22:17
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That was a horrendously bug-ridden port of Keen Dreams anyway
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Aug 2, 2017 23:51
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 07:09 |
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What's the thread's consensus on Final Doom? I'm not really familiar with TNT Eviloution or Plutonia Expermient outside of the first couple of levels. Additionally, what do people think about the two Quake expansions? (Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity) I just finished Scourge of Armagon on Normal and was about to start on Dissolution. SoA is pretty tough (and I'd argue a little unfair in some places), and the new weapons and enemies it adds don't really seem all that great.
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