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Randarkman posted:Yes. I see. Better to just keep the guys currently in charge for perpetuity then. gently caress no. But saying poo poo like Randarkman posted:Fixing Venezuela's problems will not be easy, because the grave has been dug pretty deep already, but at least it would be a nice change of pace to stop shooting protesters and actually begin abiding by the rule of law. Reflects a callous level of ignorance of the political and economic history of the entire region that I'm frankly at a lack of words to properly convey. You know how bad things are now for the people of Venezuela? They are nowhere near as close to how bad they can get. This is not going to be a 'nice change of pace.' What's coming is a traumatic and frankly horrifying gamble with a nation's future. It might work out, but odds are it won't, so how about you show some loving respect for the people of Venezuela, yes?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:39
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Brazil does not equal Venezuela you useless poo poo bag.Conspiratiorist posted:This is not going to be a 'nice change of pace.' What's coming is a traumatic and frankly horrifying gamble with a nation's future. It might work out, but odds are it won't, so how about you show some loving respect for the people of Venezuela, yes? Yes, I'm certain respecting the results of elections and trying to abide by the rule of law is a horrifying gamlbe with a nation's future. 50/50 it ends up good or ends in a disaster.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:39
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fnox posted:What about the hundreds of loving dead in the hands of the police and National Guard? Why do you only care about deaths when they benefit your point of view? How is the government in any way less loving violent? Those are bad too but everyone here realizes that. They don't seem to realize the rightist IED-setters and cop-killers are bad as well.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:39
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Randarkman posted:How are the two comparable? Your arguments aren't quite smart enough to justify that kind of attitude. The US does not loving install nice people.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:40
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The only ones talking of the US installing people are you.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:41
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Thug Lessons posted:Those are bad too but But gently caress off. You don't know poo poo about the situation, you don't care in the slightest about the plight of the Venezuelan people, and you wouldn't be so jovial about it if you had your families lives threatened by it like some of us do. You belong in a garbage bag.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:42
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Randarkman posted:The only ones talking of the US installing people are you. They are already pouring millions of dollars into the opposition and they are about to impose sanctions that will send the the economy into a tail-spin. They are a large factor in determining who will rule Venezuela.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:43
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People who expect Trump or the US intelligence establishment to put good or even not horrible people in charge of third world countries should probably not throw stones from glass houses and likely do not give a poo poo about the plight of any people.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:43
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Thug Lessons posted:They are already pouring millions of dollars into the opposition and they are about to impose sanctions that will send the the economy into a tail-spin. They are a large factor in determining who will rule Venezuela. And that makes the people protesting the government bad how?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:43
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Conspiratiorist posted:Has everyone forgotten loving Pinochet? Chile certainly hadn't, and that has been why its government have been very open to Venezuelan Inmigrants nowadays... Seriously, I'm saying this as someone currently living in Venezuela: I honestly don't care about how incompetent the MUD can be at times because they're a conglomerate of political parties that would've never joined in normal conditions, but even the worst thing they've done pales compared to the atrocities made by a Regime that has proven they don't mind ruling a nation of corpses...
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Jul 31, 2017 06:43
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Thug Lessons you admitted to trolling the Middle East thread, why are you trolling this one too?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:44
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fnox posted:A complete and total renewal of all public powers, judiciary, legislative, executive, electoral and civic. Is there anyone that currently supports such things amongst those opposed to Maduro? Alot of what your talking about is pretty left-wing. From doing cursory reading, there are parts of the opposition ranging from center right to center left. Do any of them have such a platform?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:46
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fnox posted:But gently caress off. You don't know poo poo about the situation, you don't care in the slightest about the plight of the Venezuelan people, and you wouldn't be so jovial about it if you had your families lives threatened by it like some of us do. I don't doubt it but the views you are expressing are those of the right. In any case I am not being jovial, it's just that my avi is lolling constantly.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:47
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Randarkman posted:And that makes the people protesting the government bad how? They're not necessarily bad people but their political position, the right wing, is. They can't solve Venezuela's problems and can just offer more suffering to the poor. They also happen to attract a lot of extremely nasty people who do a lot of murders, and they don't seem to have a problem with that.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:49
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Thug Lessons you admitted to trolling the Middle East thread, why are you trolling this one too? I did no such thing.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:49
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I am curious how much of Venezuela's economy and political power is sitting in the military's hands already. I remember him promoting a bunch of military officers to his cabinet and handing over all wholesale food operations to the military a while back?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:50
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Thug Lessons posted:They're not necessarily bad people but their political position, the right wing, is. They can't solve Venezuela's problems and can just offer more suffering to the poor. They also happen to attract a lot of extremely nasty people who do a lot of murders, and they don't seem to have a problem with that. There's quite a lot of extremely nasty people attracted to Maduro and the PSUV as well. I guess that's just okay for a governing party. Thug Lessons posted:I did no such thing. You can at least try to find the goddamned edit button rather than triple-posting.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:50
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How many of you think this looks like the voice of a democratic opposition? How often did Gandhi do this?
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Jul 31, 2017 06:51
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Thug Lessons posted:I did no such thing. Liar. Thug Lessons posted:I love this. To be honest I live for this. The despicable pro-Assad people tell me the same things when I go into their spaces and tell them he's a piece of poo poo, almost word for word. I don't care about atrocities, I'm an anti-Arab racist, only difference is that "defending fascism" is replaced with "defending imperialism". I know I'm doing a good job when the hysterical partisans of either side can't do anything except resort to insane hyperbole.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:54
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ITT a bunch of white people suddenly appearing this weekend to tell actual Venezuelans that their suffering is a lie and they should support an illiterate bus driver & high-school dropout who has already handed the country over to the military & intelligence services.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:55
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Sergg posted:ITT a bunch of white people suddenly appearing this weekend to tell actual Venezuelans that their suffering is a lie and they should support an illiterate bus driver who has already handed the country over to the military & intelligence services. Why does it matter that the president is a former bus driver? You sound like someone who has a certain point of view who is amusingly and entertainingly trying to deflect away from said position through shallow appeals to identity.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:57
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Kokoro Wish posted:Is there anyone that currently supports such things amongst those opposed to Maduro? Alot of what your talking about is pretty left-wing. From doing cursory reading, there are parts of the opposition ranging from center right to center left. Do any of them have such a platform? That has been the platform of the opposition for the longest time, you can probably find Henrique Capriles' government plan and it won't deviate much from that. The big parties have spoken about the Nordic Model as a good example to follow. If all the more right wing parties in the bloc disagree on the concept of how much the government should be broken down. Even then, you have to consider that for the most part, they just want to mostly return industries seized by the state and subsequently destroyed, to private hands; companies like Fama de America or Lacteos Los Andes, which used to be able to more than cover national demand and are now operating far below acceptable levels due to government mismanagement. The only party that is truly right wing in the MUD is Vente Venezuela and they're a minority party. The top 4 parties, AD, PJ, VP and UNT are all left leaning. The bloc as a whole doesn't have a set ideology, because that's not the point of the MUD, the MUD is an alliance to combat the government, it's not intended to remain after Maduro is gone. Agnosticnixie posted:Why does it matter that the president is a former bus driver? Because it means he doesn't know poo poo about running a country, and it shows.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:57
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Sergg posted:ITT a bunch of white people suddenly appearing this weekend to tell actual Venezuelans that their suffering is a lie and they should support an illiterate bus driver who has already handed the country over to the military & intelligence services. The best way to prove how non-racist non-white you are is to refer to the leader of a Latin American country as a "illiterate bus driver". It's very clear you are the not-racist one and everyone who disagrees with you is a white racist, as outlined in this post.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:58
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fnox posted:
Trump is hereditary money who went to Wharton. Nobody knows how to run a country.
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Jul 31, 2017 06:59
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Okay whatever you say.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:00
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Basically all Latinos are subhuman filth. Really great to hear a bunch of WHITE PEOPLE come in to say otherwise 
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Jul 31, 2017 07:02
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Agnosticnixie posted:Trump is hereditary money who went to Wharton. Nobody knows how to run a country. Is Trump loving slaughtering people on the streets? Are people eating from garbage bags (as hilarious as Thug Lessons thinks that is) under Trump rule? Are there sham elections taking place under Trump? Can you find medicines under Trump? Is there an American refugee crisis happening under Trump? Then they're not loving comparable. Venezuela is not the US, it is not Brazil, your American understanding of politics isn't applicable to Venezuela, it is not the same country. You loving tankies need to start reading up on the thread or get out.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:04
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Despise Maduro for his actions and his track record, but insulting his pre-politics background is just classist as gently caress.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:05
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Food and medicine are actually bad, I have no idea why anyone would want Venezuelans to have them. Vote Maduro!! He didn't finish high school but he'll certainly finish off Capitalism!
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Jul 31, 2017 07:06
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fnox posted:Is Trump loving slaughtering people on the streets? Are people eating from garbage bags (as hilarious as Thug Lessons thinks that is) under Trump rule? Are there sham elections taking place under Trump? Can you find medicines under Trump? Is there an American refugee crisis happening under Trump? Sounds like we need to make Trump President of Venezuela. After all, he's not Maduro, and it doesn't particularly matter that he's a right-wing reactionary. Surely his policies will benefit Venezuela. Only problem is he's not setting enough IEDs to kill cops.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:08
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Sergg posted:Food and medicine are actually bad, I have no idea why anyone would want Venezuelans to have them. My grandparents didn't finish HS either and they're still probably more competent than most wonks.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:10
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Holding the leaders of your country to minimal competence standards is bad, just like having basic medical supplies. Welcome to Caracas. The hospital stay is complementary but we don't have any bags of saline. You know how capitalist countries will charge you $200 for an aspirin? We promise not to do that.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:10
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"We should reinstate literacy tests and make sure that nobody can ever be elected if they haven't attended at least two different Ivies and a prep school" I, too, can play this game.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:11
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I just don't understand the IED thing. Why would you set IEDs to kill cops? Why would you do that? If you're a liberal democrat who wants to institute Nordic socialism in Venezuela, why would you go around setting IEDs so that you can detonate them when police convoys pass by? Really the only reason I can think is that actually you are not so liberal as you claim, and in fact you are a regular right-winger, and you want to institute a regime of violence against the left just like you did when you did a coup fifteen years ago.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:14
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Conspiratiorist posted:Despise Maduro for his actions and his track record, but insulting his pre-politics background is just classist as gently caress. Yeah, this is one of the things that makes me scratch my head at that line of criticism. Also as a person who's lived in Britain for a time, I am always very suspicious of people calling for re-privatization of industries made public. The arguments used, such as those of efficiency, employment, under-performance and debt, have largely panned out to be entirely false, and in retrospect were lies at the time. Has anyone actually analysed the opposition stance of privatization like that? Conflicts of interest and other avenues of corruption seem like they might be a problem. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 07:15
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So what are the chances that your average left leaning Venezuelan citizen will be politically active in the coming months? Thug Lessons, if you are actually "A VICE reporter on the ground" and you're saying the only active protesters are far-right militants? That seems to disagree with most of what the day to day reporting in this thread and twitter was indicating. Also Maduro leads a right wing authoritarian government, so you're also saying that the main protesters against him would have made up a big fraction of his already weak support? Or are you just saying that the protesters are more anarcho-right than authoritarian right?
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Jul 31, 2017 07:16
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Thug Lessons posted:I just don't understand the IED thing. Why would you set IEDs to kill cops? Why would you do that? If you're a liberal democrat who wants to institute Nordic socialism in Venezuela, why would you go around setting IEDs so that you can detonate them when police convoys pass by? Really the only reason I can think is that actually you are not so liberal as you claim, and in fact you are a regular right-winger, and you want to institute a regime of violence against the left just like you did when you did a coup fifteen years ago. It might just be that the people doing it are angry, frustrated and desperate. Also pro-longed unrest and the breakdown of law and order tends to allow radicals a bit more of a free hand.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:18
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Thug Lessons posted:I just don't understand the IED thing. Why would you set IEDs to kill cops? Why would you do that? If you're a liberal democrat who wants to institute Nordic socialism in Venezuela, why would you go around setting IEDs so that you can detonate them when police convoys pass by? Really the only reason I can think is that actually you are not so liberal as you claim, and in fact you are a regular right-winger, and you want to institute a regime of violence against the left just like you did when you did a coup fifteen years ago. Wasn't that IED set against a motorcade of the national police who have beating on the anti government protesters? Why can't liberals use violence? There is nothing inherently pacifist about being liberal also... liberal is left, not right. gently caress
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Jul 31, 2017 07:18
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Conspiratiorist posted:Despise Maduro for his actions and his track record, but insulting his pre-politics background is just classist as gently caress. Ok, then lets insult his political record. He was first a deputy, elected after the general elections of 2000, re-elected in the subsequent election (In which the opposition didn't participate), he was named President of the National Assembly, only to be swiftly replaced by his (then concubine, now) wife Cilia Flores. He was instead named Chancellor, which in Venezuela means foreign ministers, despite him only speaking one language and having no qualifications in the field, and despite there being a couple hundred people who were better prepared for the job (But, that's what being Chavez' friend gets you). Chavez, months before dying of cancer and days after winning his 4th reelection, appointed him vice president to prevent Diosdado Cabello from taking power. He then became interim president. Then people voted for him because Chavez told them to. Which then brings us to today, where he is now ruling under decree after thoroughly making GBS threads on the constitution and after making every public power that opposed him illegitimate. Kokoro Wish posted:Yeah, this is one of the things that makes me scratch my head at that line of criticism. Try finding Fama de America coffee or Los Andes milk in Venezuela. You won't even get them in CLAP boxes. They were a mainstay of every Venezuelan household before they were seized, so what else could have happened to them? Again, this isn't the US, this isn't Brazil, this isn't the UK, this is Venezuela. Corruption in any other country is not comparable to here. fnox fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 07:19
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M_Gargantua posted:So what are the chances that your average left leaning Venezuelan citizen will be politically active in the coming months? I am not actually a Vice reporter. That was a joke. I am not saying they are all right-wing militants but it is fairly clear at this point that it's violent cops vs. violent protesters.
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Jul 31, 2017 07:20
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