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frankenfreak posted:Speaking of those: does anyone have experience getting them to run under Linux?
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Jul 28, 2017 05:00
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Okay, so here's a really weird question that probably doesn't come up often: Anyone know of any feats to buff or improve the Total Defense action? Long version: I'm going to be playing an Assault Swordmage in a Zeitgeist game, with the plan to eventually take the Zeitgeist custom Paragon Path Polyhistor. You can grab the full writeup here, but the important bits are that 1: You start each encounter with some number of "martial dice" that you can spend to make basic attacks into bursts on your turn, or other stance-specific actions (like, say, roll and add them as raw damage to basic attacks, or to grab and then inflict conditions on targets of your basic attacks). 2: "If you spend a standard action on total defense, you add three additional martial dice to your pool as long as an enemy is actively engaged in combat within 10 squares of you." As an Assault Swordmage, I'll be making a lot of MBAs as mark punishment. So I'll be able to do things like Close Stance -> Aegis -> run away -> Mark punishment -> free grab with empty hand -> on my turn, apply Dazed This will eat up dice pretty quickly, but should lead to some fun shenanigans. So I'll be wanting to get extra dice through that Total Defense action. This also works into my Assault Swordmage's features, because I can Aegis a target, then Total Defense, so the monsters have the choice of either attacking a defended target or attacking an undefended target which will trigger my mark punishment just after I've gained 3 extra dice to crush them with. So I'm looking to see if there's any feats to make Total Defense even beefier/more appealing. It feels like one of those things that there should be some ways to boost that nobody would ever take normally, but which actually make sense in this weird edge case I've found. Genasi Cindersoul, if that helps any, too.
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Jul 29, 2017 16:02
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ElegantFugue posted:So I'm looking to see if there's any feats to make Total Defense even beefier/more appealing. I googled this and found a stack exchange answer on it. Here are the bits that you probably qualify for: quote:Items seems to directly enhance your defense:
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Jul 29, 2017 17:05
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Ooh, that's exactly the sort of thing I figured might be out there, thank you! I still have a ways to go before this gimmick will come online, but Watchful Redoubt's untyped bonus in particular sounds very useful if I end up doing this often.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:21
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I had no idea there was a 4E book called Open Grave.
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Jul 29, 2017 17:29
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I might be running 4E reskinned as sentai/magical girl stuff soon-ish (using Gradenko's simplified modifiers, with Essentials banned, and possibly using level 1 damage), so I'm trying to come up with rules for transforming, super mode, and big flashy finishers that aren't horribly complicated. So far I've got: Transforming: characters are restricted to MBA/RBA and level 1 At-Wills until they use the Transform! power: quote:Transform! A bit hacky unfortunately, but it's very simple in application, so should be fine. I wish I could use the Stance keyword, but that would make it incompatible with actual stance powers. The +2 to-hit/defences and healing surge spend is part compensation for forcing players to use a move action, part genre emulation for the bit where the heroes tend to kick rear end for a bit immediately after transforming. Being able to regain its use is there so players aren't forced to spend the rest of the encounter with most of their powers locked away if they go down once. Super mode: quote:Overdrive This provides a reasonable power boost at a cost that's designed to make it so you have to think about when to use it. It's kind of boring, but I was trying to keep it simple. Increasing the dice size by one step is identical to +1 damage but should feel cooler and doesn't really introduce much complexity. Finisher: this is designed to be deliberately busted! Hopefully in a fun way. quote:Desperation Attack This last one ends up being a gigantic clusterfuck of rules but I can't really word it any more simply, I think. The intent is for Limit Breaks to auto-hit and auto-crit if you roll an attack roll (an interrupt could still prevent you from hitting if it prevents you from rolling to hit), maximise all damage including bonus crit dice, double all riders, not expend the actual Daily power, and have functionally infinite range. You still need to actually be able to use the power - i.e. if it takes a standard action to use and ends a stance, you need a standard action available and to be in that stance. Yes, I'm very conscious that this won't work with every power or even every class - it's going to require me to adjudicate on a per-power basis, and possibly ban the Barbarian. Dropping you to 1HP is there because it's thematic, and to stop players using this the moment they become Bloodied (since in-fiction, this kind of thing is often a last resort). If someone's already come up with something less complicated that achieves the same thing, please point me in that direction, because Desperation Attack is definitely way clunkier than I'd like it to be. e; thinking about it: the ultra simple solution is to make the Limit Break auto-hit/-crit only, but that's less fun. Still, I suppose I could do that if the stupid bloated monstrosity there ends up being too unwieldy to use in a real game. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jul 14, 2018 |
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Jul 29, 2017 22:19
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Dick Burglar posted:I had no idea there was a 4E book called Open Grave. It's pretty neat but it was published very early on so it's got a lot of old monster math in it, so be careful. One of the level 1 encounters suggested in it was kind of a disaster for my players because of that.
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Jul 30, 2017 08:19
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So my friends and managed to get access to the character builder for a campaign, and we all ended up with some goofy characters. How ridiculous is a Warlord Archer Pixie?
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Jul 30, 2017 08:25
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Not as ridiculous as a pixie brawler-fighter who can choke slam a dragon.
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Jul 30, 2017 15:07
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Pixie is the single best race for breaking the game in odd ways. Get the entire party to be pixies and watch the DM facepalm when you break challenges in half using your natural flight and ability to make things small. Still haven't figured out how you're supposed to handle multiple pixies sharing the same mount. Space-sharing abuse is great fun too, have everyone take Teeny Target and just stack up on each other for that partial cover and Defender coverage.
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Jul 30, 2017 15:45
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The greatest adventurer in Greyhawk is secretly five pixies in a suit.
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Jul 30, 2017 15:57
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Hell yeah. I just think it's hilarious that I'll be firing the equivalent of toothpicks that are being shot with the force of a goddamn spear chucker. On top of getting to play shoutboss.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:09
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Nomadic Scholar posted:Hell yeah. I just think it's hilarious that I'll be firing the equivalent of toothpicks that are being shot with the force of a goddamn spear chucker. On top of getting to play shoutboss. And if you somehow survive the toothpick assault, you better hope you get all of them out before your next extended rest or they'll grow back to regular size 
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Jul 31, 2017 09:40
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What's the benefit of entering someone's space as a pixie?
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Jul 31, 2017 09:45
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Turtlicious posted:What's the benefit of entering someone's space as a pixie? With a heroic feat sharing a space with an ally grants them Cover, so +2 all defenses, and Paragon has a feat that lets them enter and exit an enemy's space without provoke OAs from that enemy. Baseline Pixies get to share a square with allies and enemies because they're so small which opens up some tactical considerations like standing on an enemy's square as a defender so they can't shift 1 and then charge someone else without provoking.
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Jul 31, 2017 09:51
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Also if an enemy has area attacks that target all creatures they're now facing a bit of a choice. Though to be fair that's quite rare.
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Jul 31, 2017 10:01
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Lemon-Lime posted:I might be running 4E reskinned as sentai/magical girl stuff soon-ish (using Gradenko's simplified modifiers, with Essentials banned, and possibly using level 1 damage), so I'm trying to come up with rules for transforming, super mode, and big flashy finishers that aren't horribly complicated. So far I've got: Lemon-Lime, I appreciate that you're planning to use my work. If anything comes up in your game relevant to it, I'd love to hear some feedback. The math is very straightforward, but I'd still like to get a perspective on how it shakes out in an actual game, especially since I wrote it with zero regard to the Character Builder.
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Jul 31, 2017 10:33
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Yeah, if/when I run this, I plan on posting about the maths - on paper it looks like a pretty great way of simplifying 4E a little so I'm interested in seeing if it works out in play. I'll have a mix of 4E veterans and newbies, too.
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Jul 31, 2017 12:07
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Tell me more about these simplified modifiers.
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Jul 31, 2017 18:00
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Nalesh posted:And if you somehow survive the toothpick assault, you better hope you get all of them out before your next extended rest or they'll grow back to regular size
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Jul 31, 2017 22:42
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Oh god I didn't realize the shrink was an encounter power instead of something they just ~do~. It is hilarious that all the stuff eventually gets big.
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Aug 1, 2017 00:24
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Mordiceius posted:Tell me more about these simplified modifiers. It's this: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ I took the Half-Level Bonus, the Weapon Expertise/Improved Defenses "tier" bonus, and the magic item "inherent" bonus, and combined them into a single number and called it the Proficiency Bonus. This way, your basic weapon attack boils down to [d20 + Str modifier + Proficiency bonus + weapon proficiency], and you can still simply weapon proficiency down to always a +2. And your implement powers are just [d20 + Wis/Int/Cha modifier + Proficiency bonus] It condenses three "passive" numbers into one single number, so that you don't have to worry about it, and it looks cleaner and simpler.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:50
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gradenko_2000 posted:It's this: https://songoftheblade.wordpress.com/2017/05/07/simplified-modifiers-for-dd-4e/ I've played around with similar things a lot when making 4e hacks or variants, and have found slightly better results using a modification of this where the "proficiency" bonus is (4/5)*level (rounded up or just rounding off normally depending on how you feel). In my experience it worked better because it has a slightly flatter (though a little less pattern based) curve and avoids that +2 at level 1 that feels a little weird. It probably doesn't matter but if anyone is interested you can save a couple minutes of work by looking over my old sheet for it. edit: It's also ever so slightly easy to implement because you can just multiply your level by 4/5ths and round off. Defeatist Elitist fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 09:44
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The next step is to merge it with the DTAS rules to make 4e even more minimalist.
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Aug 1, 2017 09:48
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gradenko_2000 posted:The next step is to merge it with the DTAS rules to make 4e even more minimalist. Yeah, definitely, and merging them should be pretty simple. Try as I might to get rid of them though, I feel like so many things in 4e are tied to Ability scores and their differences that it made it hard for me to get rid of them in a really satisfying way, whereas simplifying the enhancement and expertise bonuses feels so clean and clear and obvious.
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Aug 1, 2017 09:53
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Seriously though, "the bonus is just four-fifths of your level" is such a great short-hand. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Aug 1, 2017 10:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:Seriously though, "the bonus is just four-fifths of your level" is such a great short-hand. Thanks for pointing it out.  I summed everything up, and noticed 24 was a clean 4/5ths of 30 and went "I wonder if this is reasonable all the way through". It also means you never get levels where there's a big power spike coming from a +2 jump. It's even worse if that jump is on a level where you're already getting a +1 from ability score increases (especially 11th and 21st)
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Aug 1, 2017 10:17
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Cool, the 4/5th's is pretty useful, and removes that weird +2 at level 1 bump. Question: How wonky would the numbers be if this number was also applied to skills as well? Would they scale to far upwards, or out of wack with each other? Would it quickly invalidate the value of trained skills?
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Aug 1, 2017 15:45
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Skills are different, they're composed of Ability Modifier + Half-Level Bonus, then +5 if they're Trained, and nothing otherwise. They can also have a +2 from a racial bonus, and an Armor Check Penalty. Using a "proficiency bonus" with them would require a completely different set of DCs.
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Aug 1, 2017 15:50
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So this interests me, but what would you day to your players regarding feats? Don't take them? Take only non passive feats? I'm still pretty new to 4e conparitively and have already had issues making blanket statements that had effects I didn't know would happen
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Aug 1, 2017 20:15
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Spiteski posted:So this interests me, but what would you day to your players regarding feats? Don't take them? Take only non passive feats? I'm still pretty new to 4e comparitively and have already had issues making blanket statements that had effects I didn't know would happen Well first thing first, just give them the Feats Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses out the gate. Those feats are math fixes and nothing else. Outside of that advise them to take feats that mechanically benefit them in combat specifically. You should consider letting them take bonus feats at odd levels that are non-combat related (think Audacious Crow from Primal Power) and help better flesh out the character storyline wise. 4e is a system that is really built along building a character from mechanics first and draping the flavor on top of it, and you should look at feats in the same way. Oh and you may want to consider banning the dragon mark feats (Mark of Storms specifically), and the feats for a rebreather sorc (I forget what they are). Those can be game breaking in the right builds. The handbooks in this thread are good resources for what feats different classes should be looking to use. These are what was salvaged when wotc nuked their forums. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?472893-4E-Character-Optimization-WOTC-rescue-Handbook-Guide Madmarker fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 20:40
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Madmarker posted:Well first thing first, just give them the Feats Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses out the gate. Those feats are math fixes and nothing else. Outside of that advise them to take feats that mechanically benefit them in combat specifically. This is a good post and I'll definitely look at the two feats you mentioned, and whatever a rebreather is, but I was more meaning in relation to gradenko and his proficiency stuff which looks like it bakes in those math fix feats
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Aug 1, 2017 20:51
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Spiteski posted:This is a good post and I'll definitely look at the two feats you mentioned, and whatever a rebreather is, but I was more meaning in relation to gradenko and his proficiency stuff which looks like it bakes in those math fix feats Rebreather is a specific combination of feats and I think a theme that lets a Dragonborn sorcerer pretty much get infinite uses of Dragon Breath. The issue isn't the feats themselves, it's when they're combined in that manner. I think we discussed the shenanigans with Mark of the Storm in the Discord last week, if you want to know more about that.
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Aug 1, 2017 21:41
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Does anyone have any of the installer .zip files for Masterplan? I would love to put it on a new laptop, but sadly it has vanished into the ether.
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Aug 2, 2017 14:43
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dwarf74 posted:Does anyone have any of the installer .zip files for Masterplan? I would love to put it on a new laptop, but sadly it has vanished into the ether. I might have a more recent one on my laptop (which is where I did most of my Masterplanning) that I can check when I get home.
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Aug 2, 2017 14:54
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ImpactVector posted:Not sure what the latest version was but I seem to have a .zip of 11.11 on the computer I can access now.  I will grab this when I get home - thank you!
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Aug 2, 2017 15:01
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Defeatist Elitist posted:Yeah, definitely, and merging them should be pretty simple. Try as I might to get rid of them though, I feel like so many things in 4e are tied to Ability scores and their differences that it made it hard for me to get rid of them in a really satisfying way, whereas simplifying the enhancement and expertise bonuses feels so clean and clear and obvious. you don't actually need to completely remove ability scores. Just remove them from attack and maybe damage rolls
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Aug 2, 2017 15:36
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We're about 3 months out from this year's Extra Life charity streams. If I ran a 24 hour Gamma World game, would anyone be interested in participating?
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Aug 3, 2017 23:11
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Mordiceius posted:We're about 3 months out from this year's Extra Life charity streams. If I ran a 24 hour Gamma World game, would anyone be interested in participating? Keep me posted via PMs about what day you have in mind.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:15
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Mordiceius posted:We're about 3 months out from this year's Extra Life charity streams. If I ran a 24 hour Gamma World game, would anyone be interested in participating? Never done gamma world, but let me know some details of dates and I could sure as hell be interested!
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Aug 4, 2017 08:29
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