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Xaerael
Aug 25, 2010

Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

G0RF posted:


Holograms


Sounds legit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGNSUt_sb5c&t=6s

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aleksendr
May 14, 2014

But surely someone at the top understand that a costume from one movie does not instantly looks good if you take it out of the contex of its own fictious world ? Like some kind of director who did some films and visuals or something ? There is a position for that.. like.. its important...

Art Director !

zcrow
May 6, 2014

Ah.. yeah... um... tup tup tup tup tup.. this is something we'll add down the line
Does anyone have a link to the musical version of the eh did woh dip eh?

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





G0RF posted:

"But we have the hologram gadget where you can put up a hologram version of yourself and you can be off sneaking somewhere else. We actually have some gadgets which are good for stealth and distractions. We're going through and reactivating and polishing them from Star Marine and they will also debut with Star Marine.We are going to have definite things that will help you with hiding your radar and noise signature, or heat signature, and stuff like that. So we definitely want that."

Lol, I forgot about that.

Star Marine Hologram, taken from game files:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNBSeb_215A&t=114s

Also, for comedy's sake, Chris unsuccessfully trying to get one of his players to use the hologram for like two minutes during the Star Marine demo in 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfHoLF8oJFc&t=191s

Funnily enough, noted bad FPS Titanfall 2 has a functioning hologram gadget that replicates whatever movement the player was doing when he activated it, includes some things like basic obstacle avoidance, and is insanely fun to trick people with.

e: gently caress it, here's holograms in Titanfall 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68R1ijUTvyM

Beet Wagon fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jul 31, 2017

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

Space Skeleton posted:

A lot of sci-fi properties do this where they are hanging on to 1980s and 1990s ideas of what sci-fi is but a lot of the gadgets end up being lower tech than real things we have now. Classic example is anything Star Trek still using communicators, datapads, tricorders and so on when we have smartphones now which do a lot of that stuff but better, there are even phones which take different kinds of scientific measurements.

Call me back in a couple years when they can measure gryph


Tippis posted:

The thing is, we're not really talking about “true” delta patching, like the bitmask updates of a bygone era — we're talking about the same kind of delta:ish updates that everyone has been using since, oh, the release of WinNT or so. In other words, it's a matter of rebuilding/appending a container using new files, not updating the files individually or the container as a whole.

CryEngine PAK files are just zips with custom headers. There are a bajillion different libraries that let you do that, a large portion of which will let you do it with encrypted packages as well. That part is not a problem and it does not break delta patching as it exists today. All it does is require the patcher to contain the keys needed, which somewhat defeats the purpose of the encryption… but then, that purpose is defeated by default by this being an actual mass-market game.

Encryption would be handy if you didn't want people to get to the stuff inside the PAK files, but you do. They have to be able to play the game, and that content has to be decrypted and loaded into memory. As such, anyone with access to the PAKs will be able to extract the content — directly from memory if need be. Protection is inherently self-defeating and pointless.

There was some old unsourced claim floating around that CIG wasn't actually that stupid. Instead, they just used signing (but no actual encryption), supposedly to maintain integrity of the PAK files and prevent cheating. Or some such. The problem with that is that it also serves very little purpose. You cheat through memory injection anyway. And that's actually harder than defeating the signing would be. The same non-issue for a delta patcher would apply here: you can still have the patcher update the PAK files just fine, and then re-sign the whole thing when it's done, and the “insecurity” comes with the patcher requiring a signing key to do so, so you could dike out that key and sign tampered files. But again, why bother when you can just do memory injection if you're that determined to cheat — there are automated tools available to do so.

So of those requirements, the first one is handled by relying on standard OS API calls and not being a fucktard Windows-95 era programmer who gets flummoxed by a sandboxed environment the likes of which has existed since the late 1970s (and early 2000:s on the WIndows side). The second is handled by not relying on outdated assumptions about string types and hard-coded ASCII. The third is handled by licensing any kind of professional archiving library — hell, even the free ones will do this without fault. The fourth one is not a problem, since the CDNs just have to hold the updated files, build lists, and checksums — all of which can be auto-generated by the build process.

This is a Network IO 101 programming course lab problem. In fact, it's not even that, because that IO will be handled by pre-existing libraries. It's a “how I use third-party library 001, durrrrrr” programming course lab problem. It should be doable in, oh, two hours — never mind two weeks (or two years). And they're failing at it. Yes, the translations may take a while, but that's assuming you're so far along that you feel you need localisation for your testing environment… and they're not.

…in fact, since we're talking about a testing environment they shouldn't even be using the PAK files to begin with. That's where this whole thing first becomes stupid. They're (pre)alpha testing — an environment where you expect tons of updates on a daily basis. The engine can operate from a pile of files in a regular directory structure, and the PAK files is just a way to hide all of that and allow some “neater” access as well as some (potentially) faster data streaming. If people cheat, so what? It's a testing environment and what they do in that world is irrelevant. In fact, you may even learn something from it. If they want your assets, they have them already — you agreed to hand them over when you allowed them into your testing environment. If you're afraid that people will look at your files and laugh, then it won't help because you can just extract them anyway. People have been doing so from day one and you can't stop them because you must grant them access to those files as part of allowing them to use your software.

Since they have exactly zero need for PAK files, they have zero need for delta patcher — they just need rsync. Their “delta patcher” problem is not a two-week job — it's a 5 second job that consists of “click on rsync download link.” They fail even at that. While I admit that it's perhaps not the most user-friendly utility there is, they still fail at using loving rsync. That's how utterly incompetent and stupid everyone related to software development and project management at CIG is.



…yes, this level of utterly headless fucktardness triggers me. :argh:
And these amateurs this gaggle of dribbling morons are trying to make an MMOFPS&FS. They're not even amateurs, because while it is often used in a derogatory way, that term still ultimately denotes someone who has some level of interest, insight, and competence, just not on a professional level.

Post gets better every time I read it.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Colostomy Bag posted:

I'm sure Vic feels grief.

His uptight religious mom doesn't get how important music is to him. He needs to rock so bad but she thinks it the devil's music. Surburban angst ensues. Something's gotta give.

For those not planning to see American Satan in theaters, the Canadian version is on YouTube and it still rocks.

BeigeJacket
Jul 21, 2005

aleksendr posted:

I agree, and done well you get a wonderfull feeling of "retro tech", the best recent example being "Alien - Isolation". Or take "Rebel Galaxy", the moment you boot it up you instantly get the feeling "Trucker in space" and that feeling is there everywhere, from the music to the bar where you meet npcs.

But in SC case the art direction and tone is all over the place. You get your "rusty bucket of bolt" feeling from some ships like the terrapin or starlancer but they fly in the same galaxy than the super advanced looking stealth bomber and the alien chinese flying fish.

Having a consistent tone is key to solid world building and "construction of the whole" in a multimedia art piece.

I know it's been mentioned before (probably ad nauseum) but I've never seen any evidence that Roberts has any familiarity with science-fiction beyond watching the original Star Wars films, Aliens and a few eps of the BSG reboot a bunch of times.

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

Meridian posted:

Hello Space Friends! Is anybody in here good/decent at Total War: Warhams? I would like to learn how to play the game but I have no idea what I'm doing. I just want to purge the xenos Greenskin filth. :black101:

I play greenskins almost exclusively friend, so if you ever want to fight greenskins all day, send me a PM and we'll duke it out so you can learn some stuff. I'm no expert, but I do have some knowledge.

Have you ever played any of the other Total War games?

Theotus
Nov 8, 2014

Mr.Tophat posted:

I play greenskins almost exclusively friend, so if you ever want to fight greenskins all day, send me a PM and we'll duke it out so you can learn some stuff. I'm no expert, but I do have some knowledge.

Have you ever played any of the other Total War games?

I played a bit of Shogun 2, but honestly not very much. Always got distracted with other games or immediately felt like I was doing something wrong and just playing the first 20 turns over and over again.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

G0RF posted:

His uptight religious mom doesn't get how important music is to him. He needs to rock so bad but she thinks it the devil's music. Surburban angst ensues. Something's gotta give.

For those not planning to see American Satan in theaters, the Canadian version is on YouTube and it still rocks.

Sounds like Vic's mom is a Puritan. Nice to see she is extending her talents.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs

Meridian posted:

I played a bit of Shogun 2, but honestly not very much. Always got distracted with other games or immediately felt like I was doing something wrong and just playing the first 20 turns over and over again.

LegendOfTotalWar and PartyElite on YouTube do some good videos. HeirOfCarthage, too.

Theotus
Nov 8, 2014

Jack the Lad posted:

LegendOfTotalWar and PartyElite on YouTube do some good videos. HeirOfCarthage, too.

I'll have to check out PartyElite. I'm looking at Empire campaigns right now, ideally vanilla on higher difficulties just so I can get a better idea of how the campaign map gameplay is supposed to work. A few youtubers use mods which change mechanics and I'm not about that life. I did enjoy listening to LegendOfTotalWar since he's a bit sassy, but last I checked he was playing on the pre-release version and I'm not sure how much stuff has changed since then. Guess it doesn't matter that much really.

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is

my favorite empire tactic is using maybe 2 units of flagellants to stop the enemy from charging in on my main line and while they pile in on the dumb unbreakable bastards i open up with artillery and skirmishers

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

Meridian posted:

I played a bit of Shogun 2, but honestly not very much. Always got distracted with other games or immediately felt like I was doing something wrong and just playing the first 20 turns over and over again.

I hear you. I still get that from time to time myself.

Watching other people's campaigns really does help. But there have been some changes. With the introduction of new races and factions, there are races who used to have a pretty reasonably difficult start which is now a lot more challenging. Empire in particular.

The best and most accessible campaign to get a feel for the game is by far Bretonnia. I highly recommend you play their campaign to get a feel of what mid and late game can do. Knights are an awful lot of fun to cycle charge (charge in, then retreat, then charge in again to get that sweet bonus damage)

If you're planning on playing vanilla get ready to deal with enemy agents assassinating or waylaying your generals. It's extremely loving annoying and I run a mod that removes that. Also, you're gunna have situations where you're chasing a stack across the map for loving ages if you don't auto it.

Rebellions can be a good thing. Raiding is awesome.

I would say more but I am dog tired right now and I'm not even certain I should be the one to try and help you with campaign matters. I play this game to smash hoards of greenskins at whoever will fight me. Crumpin' is fun yo

Percelus
Sep 9, 2012

My command, your wish is

also using karl franz or another melee hero to take on a regiment or two alone lets you fire on them with minimal friendly fire damage since heroes don't take that much ranged damage unless they're a giant target like kholek suneater

toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator
Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Also can you really do it in two weeks

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

Percelus posted:

my favorite empire tactic is using maybe 2 units of flagellants to stop the enemy from charging in on my main line and while they pile in on the dumb unbreakable bastards i open up with artillery and skirmishers

I'd love to see you try that against my horde of goblins, your speed bump is gunna get enveloped sharpish

But that sounds like a good strat

Theotus
Nov 8, 2014

Mr.Tophat posted:

I hear you. I still get that from time to time myself.

Watching other people's campaigns really does help. But there have been some changes. With the introduction of new races and factions, there are races who used to have a pretty reasonably difficult start which is now a lot more challenging. Empire in particular.

The best and most accessible campaign to get a feel for the game is by far Bretonnia. I highly recommend you play their campaign to get a feel of what mid and late game can do. Knights are an awful lot of fun to cycle charge (charge in, then retreat, then charge in again to get that sweet bonus damage)

If you're planning on playing vanilla get ready to deal with enemy agents assassinating or waylaying your generals. It's extremely loving annoying and I run a mod that removes that. Also, you're gunna have situations where you're chasing a stack across the map for loving ages if you don't auto it.

Rebellions can be a good thing. Raiding is awesome.

I would say more but I am dog tired right now and I'm not even certain I should be the one to try and help you with campaign matters. I play this game to smash hoards of greenskins at whoever will fight me. Crumpin' is fun yo

Oh word, I'll check Bretonnia out for sure. I may end up trying to learn the game on stream that way I can at least get some advice if anyone tunes in.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

toanoradian posted:

Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Also can you really do it in two weeks

In this context, delta basically means the difference between two things, so a delta patcher is a patcher that can update the game by only downloading the differences between the version you're on and the latest version. CIG currently force everyone to download the entire game every time they change one line of text.

Tippis' point about it being a dumb idea when they're in alpha is that it's only a problem when your game consist of one gigantic package file that contains all your game files all clumped together. CIG could simply ship the files individually instead of in a giant clump, then they wouldn't need to worry about what parts of what files had changed, they could just download the newest files (via rsync) using a simple check like the last modified date on the server.

Packaging your game's content into a single file is a good idea when you're finished with it because you don't update it all that regularly and you will get some disk space and performance improvements from having one large file instead of lots of tiny ones. The down side is that you need to write a delta patcher to do it so that your customers don't all want to kill themselves every time you release an update, but why would you bother for some tiny performance improvements when your game is an alpha and also a clusterfucking mess of inefficiency everywhere you look?

Chalks fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jul 31, 2017

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

toanoradian posted:

Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Also can you really do it in two weeks

I thought the delta patcher thing was something that let you download an update instead of having to download the entire game everytime (a loving retarded convoluted mess) which means you're downloading like 30 gigs of poo poo just to have a rock move 3cm to the left because it didn't fit with chris's vision.


Someone will tell me that I've got confused any moment now and i'm talking about completely the wrong thing.

big nipples big life
May 12, 2014

I don't think they can afford any performance loss right now, the game already runs on poo poo on computers that cost 1/3 of a completionist* package.







*completionist package not actually complete.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

toanoradian posted:

Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Also can you really do it in two weeks

Basically a bad name for incremental patching, or only updating files that have changed. Right now any change is applied by re-downloading the entire game.

CryEngine packs textures,logic,3Dmodels into large files that in theory prevent tampering, but protecting against tampering is pointless in an alpha setting. The other point is cheaters just use memory editors rather than trying to trick CryEngine into thinking their edited client files are legit.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

toanoradian posted:

Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Also can you really do it in two weeks

In case Tippis has a life and is enjoying it besides trolling this sewer which is the better outcome I'll chime in.

1) pak files like said are basically zip files. You can open up and explore their structure with 7zip.

2) They are 2GB each

3) Once you browse through them you get an idea on how CIG allocates different files to different pak files. Might be their mentality or how the automated build engine builds the pak files.

4) Problem is a door is spread across a few pak files due to LoD crap or minor bug fixes. (This is a hyperbole, but...)

5) So they touched three assets that are stored across 3 different pak files

You are looking at a 6 GB fix.

Delta patching for this game would involve the patcher looking into the pak files, and retrieving the individual files that reside within that. And then rebuilding the pak file along with all the signing and other horseshit.

Fairly simple in the grand scheme of things. In olden times they would have old assets you could pull up.

toanoradian
May 31, 2011


The happiest waffligator
Eait what fhe gently caress you need to download the entire game every update

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!

toanoradian posted:

Eait what fhe gently caress you need to download the entire game every update

Welcome to Star Citizen.

The funny part is, the obfuscation they are trying to have is completely retarded for an alpha process. And completely retarded for the end game too, since as soon as the code is stable and released someone will give enough fucks to break it. While at the same time, there should be nothing in the client itself that should affect your server based MMO authorized gameplay in the first place.

I think that CIG are simply still pissed about players changing cfg files in Arena Commander.

Dante80 fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 31, 2017

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?

toanoradian posted:

Eait what fhe gently caress you need to download the entire game every update

Is it any wonder no one plays this poo poo?

Toops
Nov 5, 2015

-find mood stabilizers
-also,
What's most amazing to me at this point is how both sides, the skeptics and the believers, operate with a very similar thought process. We have faith that "things are finally starting to fall apart," and they have faith that "things are finally starting to come together." The reality is, neither is true. We've been living identical, diametrically opposed circle jerks for literal years, the one balancing the other in an objectively autistic dance.

But the most impressive thing about Star Citizen is that nothing ever happens. Nothing. It neither fails nor succeeds. It neither lives nor dies. It's just a thing that's there, like a hill. It serves no purpose, it has no intrinsic value and, much like the rest of this universe, the only meaning to be found comes from within. All of your experiences, beliefs, desires, and predispositions get tacked on like so many sticky-notes and I can't fight the suspicion that if Star Citizen is anything, it's a mirror.

Do you like what you see?

Namaste, friends.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

toanoradian posted:

Eait what fhe gently caress you need to download the entire game every update

Pretty much, because anything fixed (no matter how minor) will affect the 15 pak files across the board...hence the 30GB download for a patch.

Fixing a door might be spread across several pak files.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

Is it any wonder no one plays this poo poo?

It's probably partly the fact that nobody plays this poo poo that they've not bothered to make a delta patcher. Everyone downloading the entire game every few days would be a huge bandwidth problem and it'd probably be very expensive, if it wasn't for the fact that "everyone" is like 10 people so who loving cares I guess?

Guarantee you that's why it's taking so long, because they've got other poo poo to do and who cares about the patches for a game nobody is actually playing.

Virtual Captain
Feb 20, 2017

Archive Priest of the Stimperial Order

Star Citizen Good, in all things forevermore. Amen.
:pray:

toanoradian posted:

Also can you really do it in two weeks

Absolutely. CIG is not the first company that has ever needed to make changes to a clientside exe before. Tippis points out there are lots of supporting libraries for comparing directories and replacing older versions of files with newer ones. Think of dropbox without the user interface. Old files are removed or replaced with an updated version.

There are probably hundreds of turnkey solutions, or you can go for something more custom-made like Blizzards launcher/patcher.

Dante80
Mar 23, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 5 hours!

Toops posted:

if Star Citizen is anything, it's a mirror.


Star Citizen is a perpetual engineering debt treadmill, powered by spermaceti harvested via non sustainable whaling.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard






Mirificus fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jul 31, 2017

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

toanoradian posted:

Can someone explain what "delta patcher/ing" is? From Tippis's post I get that it's a thing CIG shouldn't do because they're in their rapidly changing alpha phase, and the security offered by PAK files is wholly superfluous to prevent cheating(?) and CIG should use "rsync" instead. So what is deltapatch and when is it okay to do? Googling the term lead to SC videos and something about hacking roms.

Technically they don't have a delta patcher, just a torrent of the dir. Hence you're downloading the whole thing each time.

Most delta patching is done at a file level; you 'hash' the file - throw it through a one-way encryption routine to get a signature - then you compare the two hashes. if they're different, you pull the file.

byte level delta-patching does a chunked comparison, then checks the entire file. This is effectively what torrents do.

The problem with the first approach is that it doesn't deal with binary chunks at all well, but it suits things like t'internet, which are still mostly text-based. The problem with the second is that you have to keep checking the files are sane.

Steam fails this _all the time_. Seriously, if I've had things installed for a while, I do a cache integrity check because invariably it's slipped out of sync.

'rsync' does block level comparisons of files and is designed for a single purpose, keeping a pair of directories in sync. - https://linux.die.net/man/1/rsync

Chalks posted:

In this context, delta basically means the difference between two things, so a delta patcher is a patcher that can update the game by only downloading the differences between the version you're on and the latest version. CIG currently force everyone to download the entire game every time they change one line of text.

The bigger problem is that they're not bounding the torrent, so it's flattening all connections. This is normally handled by throttling to a percentage of bandwidth. Without the QoL service in windows (it reserves a certain amount of bandwidth to _send_ packets out), it would completely _fuck_ your connection.

toanoradian posted:

Eait what fhe gently caress you need to download the entire game every update

Welcome to the thread.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

trucutru posted:

The correct way to read the reddit poo poo is to click on the profiles of some of the most toxic, hateful, depraved goons like:

https://www.reddit.com/user/CatsAreFuzzy

or

https://www.reddit.com/user/SpacePanteloons

And just get to the funny stuff.

Context, like true factual truth-facts is very important!

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

:lesnick: C-Bangin' it :lesnick:

Hav posted:

Technically they don't have a delta patcher, just a torrent of the dir. Hence you're downloading the whole thing each time.

Most delta patching is done at a file level; you 'hash' the file - throw it through a one-way encryption routine to get a signature - then you compare the two hashes. if they're different, you pull the file.

byte level delta-patching does a chunked comparison, then checks the entire file. This is effectively what torrents do.

The problem with the first approach is that it doesn't deal with binary chunks at all well, but it suits things like t'internet, which are still mostly text-based. The problem with the second is that you have to keep checking the files are sane.

Steam fails this _all the time_. Seriously, if I've had things installed for a while, I do a cache integrity check because invariably it's slipped out of sync.

'rsync' does block level comparisons of files and is designed for a single purpose, keeping a pair of directories in sync. - https://linux.die.net/man/1/rsync


The bigger problem is that they're not bounding the torrent, so it's flattening all connections. This is normally handled by throttling to a percentage of bandwidth. Without the QoL service in windows (it reserves a certain amount of bandwidth to _send_ packets out), it would completely _fuck_ your connection.


Welcome to the thread.

Heh, it's cool how us non-developer types explain things and while different end up to the same ultimate conclusion: This game is hosed.

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:

Meridian posted:

Oh word, I'll check Bretonnia out for sure. I may end up trying to learn the game on stream that way I can at least get some advice if anyone tunes in.

If you're trying to learn the game, I'd honestly go with playing a bunch of skirmishes or multiplayer games. Get a feel for how combat works and how units interact. It's much less of a rock-paper-scissors than Shogun 2, but there are still elements of it. Units can be good vs large, or armoured, for example, and it can really change the outcome of a battle by applying the right units in the right places.

Fatigue is also a big deal. If I remember rightly, if a unit is exhausted, they'll take way more damage. If you march around on the campaign to get into a fight, you can start the fight tired or something, and that'll make a big impact if you're engaged for a long time.

Mr.Tophat
Apr 7, 2007

You clearly don't understand joke development :justpost:
Oh, and if you have a flying hero or lord and a bunch of arrows are coming your way, you can actually dodge that poo poo by moving your character's destination. Requires a lot of micro, but it's doable.

Theotus
Nov 8, 2014

Mr.Tophat posted:

If you're trying to learn the game, I'd honestly go with playing a bunch of skirmishes or multiplayer games. Get a feel for how combat works and how units interact. It's much less of a rock-paper-scissors than Shogun 2, but there are still elements of it. Units can be good vs large, or armoured, for example, and it can really change the outcome of a battle by applying the right units in the right places.

Fatigue is also a big deal. If I remember rightly, if a unit is exhausted, they'll take way more damage. If you march around on the campaign to get into a fight, you can start the fight tired or something, and that'll make a big impact if you're engaged for a long time.

Honestly the battles aren't the part I'm worried about. Obviously I am sure there is a lot of nuance and control tricks I need to learn, but with there being a pause button micro isn't that big of a deal and I understand the basic concepts for the most part. The campaign map though. :psyduck:

Even in the beginning I'm either trying to do things way too fast, or way too slow and I am not really sure which one it is.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard
2 months ago


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MinorInconvenience
Feb 24, 2017

Criminal lawyer or criminal, lawyer. Yeah. No difference.

Toops posted:

What's most amazing to me at this point is how both sides, the skeptics and the believers, operate with a very similar thought process. We have faith that "things are finally starting to fall apart," and they have faith that "things are finally starting to come together." The reality is, neither is true. We've been living identical, diametrically opposed circle jerks for literal years, the one balancing the other in an objectively autistic dance.

But the most impressive thing about Star Citizen is that nothing ever happens. Nothing. It neither fails nor succeeds. It neither lives nor dies. It's just a thing that's there, like a hill. It serves no purpose, it has no intrinsic value and, much like the rest of this universe, the only meaning to be found comes from within. All of your experiences, beliefs, desires, and predispositions get tacked on like so many sticky-notes and I can't fight the suspicion that if Star Citizen is anything, it's a mirror.

Do you like what you see?

Namaste, friends.

False equivalence is false. The skeptics and believers are not alike (except for the funding aspects I note below).

Being a SC skeptic isn't faith-based, it is evidence based. The years of delays, the feature creep, the constant ship sales, secretive loans, a dev schedule that is pushed back two weeks every two weeks, etc. You can look at all of that, compare it to failed and successful games in the past and come up with a good, rational and fact-based hypothesis that Star Citizen as advertised is completely hosed, and a Star Citizen game in any stable form is unlikely.

Being a SC believer is faith-based because they have to ignore the above evidence and just believe. "It will all work out in the end" is their mantra.

The only skeptic "belief" centers around the question of when the money is going to give out. Now that is unknowable giving the wacky funding and lack of financial transparency, so when folks say "ELE next week!", that's obviously unknowable bullshit. Nobody knows just when the idiot whales will stop giving CIG enough money to keep lurching from making GBS threads patch to lovely patch.

tl;dr the only faith-based skeptic claims is when SC dies, not if...

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