Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

chitoryu12 posted:

I think a number of the alt-right are the "techno cult" types who believe that we need to develop AIs and eventually upload our minds into the cloud for immortality.

Basically atheists who accidentally reinvent religion.

It's called the Rapture of the Nerds for a reason.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:08

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:21

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Disinterested posted:

But if I just say, truncatedly, that fascists are who the liberal establishment makes a pact with to sure up the state against an indissoluble social problem, I can try to slice it that way. Communism? Dysfunctional democracy? Just dial a thug and before you know it he'll have clubbed the communists and the Democrats to death!

but it wasn't the liberals in germany, it was a triumvirate of aristocrats, old-guard Catholic nobles who hated the bourgeoisie and hated democracy. unless you're defining "liberal" differently from me?

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:09

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Hegel, I remember you posted some stuff about female camp followers in the 30YW? I'm getting in a sniping match about women in combat on Facebook

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:09

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

StashAugustine posted:

Hegel, I remember you posted some stuff about female camp followers in the 30YW? I'm getting in a sniping match about women in combat on Facebook

do you want women in combat in the 17th century, or female members of the military community (wives, girlfriends, daughters, people there to sell you poo poo)

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:13

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

HEY GAIL posted:

do you want women in combat in the 17th century, or female members of the military community (wives, girlfriends, daughters, people there to sell you poo poo)

Either is cool

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:19

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

HEY GAIL posted:

but it wasn't the liberals in germany, it was a triumvirate of aristocrats, old-guard Catholic nobles who hated the bourgeoisie and hated democracy. unless you're defining "liberal" differently from me?

Sorry I was phone/bus posting. I don't mean to say it's Liberals doing it, but rather that the traditional apparatus of what you could call a (perhaps rudimentary) liberal state becomes insufficient or highly weak and dysfunctional - the police, the press, elections and legislatures leading to governments that can govern consensually, etc, giving rise to a new and profound social and institutional need. The threat of communists, social unrest, profound economic crisis - whatever perceived threat - becomes indissoluble. So you make a devil's bargain with the mass politics of the right and the game is up.

For example, there is data available somewhere about political violence in Italy in the 20's. The vast majority is policemen attacking unionists and communists. Then in the span of a year, that declines sharpy, and a huge wave of violence by right wing paramilitaries against the same targets commences. In that sense it starts like like a mafia in a uniform - a protection racket, strike breaking, with a parallel and brutal system of justice.

quote:

The second stage -- rooting, in which a fascist movement becomes a party capable of acting decisively on the political scene -- happens relatively rarely. At this stage, comparison becomes rewarding: one can contrast successes with failures. Success depends on certain relatively precise conditions: the weakness of a liberal state, whose inadequacies seems [sic] to condemn the nation to disorder, decline, or humiliation; and political deadlock because the Right, the heir to power but unable to continue to wield it alone, refuses to accept a growing Left as a legitimate governing partner. Some fascist leaders, in their turn, are willing to reposition their movements as alliances with these frightened conservatives, a step that pays handsomely in political power, at the cost of disaffection among some of the early antibourgeois militants.

...

All three of these countries [France, Italy, Germany, where fascism was heavily associated with farmers] experienced massive strikes of agricultural workers: east-Elbian Germany in the postwar crisis of 1919-23; the Po valley and Apulia in Italy in 1920-21; and the big farms of northern France and the Paris Basin during the two summers of the Popular Front, in 1936-1937. The German strikes were broken by vigilantes, armed and abetted by local army authorities, and in cases in which the regular authorities were too conciliatory to suit the landowners. The Italian ones were broken by Mussolini's famous blackshirted squadristi, whose vigilantism filled the void left by the apparent inability of the liberal Italian state to enforce order. It was precisely in this direct action against farm-worker unions that [Fascism] was born in Italy and even launched on the path to power, to the dismay of the first Fascists, intellectual dissidents from national syndicalism. Many resigned at this point, complainint of being transformed into "watchdogs" for the big planters.

France had squadristi, too: Henry Dorg�res's Greenshirts (chemises vertes), active during the great strikes of agricultural workers in the hot summers of 1936 and 1937. But the Greenshirts' role was limited to several symbolic actions in the big wheat and sugar beet farms of the North and Northwest. It was the French gendarmerie, even with L�on Blum in power, who put down the agricultural strikes in France. The French landowners did not need the chemises vertes. The authority of the state and the power of the conservative farmers' organizations left hardly any space in the French countryside for the rooting of a fascist parallel power. These differences in available space and allies seem to me much more influential than any differences or resemblances in vocabulary among rural fascists in France, Germany or Italy.

&c.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:40

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Voila.

Ed: This is also basically a visualisation of how it felt to Gramsci at the time.

Disinterested fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 31, 2017

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:45

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Disinterested posted:

Sorry I was phone/bus posting. I don't mean to say it's Liberals doing it, but rather that the traditional apparatus of what you could call a (perhaps rudimentary) liberal state becomes insufficient or highly weak and dysfunctional

and i reacted somewhat harshly because there's a guy on reddit who's been pushing the line that the people who willingly gave up power to hitler were the moderate left--he's far left and he's doing it to blacken them. Sorry.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 22:52

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

StashAugustine posted:

Either is cool

Female members of the military community were normal. This is how an army went to war--a lot of the things that would have been done by the more-developed infrastructures of political entities that were less hosed up were done, in this case, either by the families of soldiers or by civilian subcontractors (drovers, etc). In both cases, that means women. the people who nurse the sick, drive the carts, carry the poo poo on their backs (soldiers don't carry packs--it's demeaning), cook the food, reap the grain to make the food if they stop handing out bread, are women. In Germany soldiers don't dig, it's demeaning, so all those earthworks? Either civilians in the vicinity you force to do it, or the non-soldier members of the military community. And that means women as well.

Commanders and civilian onlookers seemed to have had contempt for these women because of the sexual licentiousness--some of them were prostitutes, and soldiers didn't always marry their girlfriends. This is why I call all these people "female members of the military community," not "soldiers' wives." Furies has a scene where some renaissance Italian commander has to get over a bridge but the baggage train is in the way so he pushes through anyway, pushing women and children in his own tross into the water, killing them. But objects of contempt or not, they were there. The whole thing would have ground to a halt without them.

as far as women disguising themselves like men to fight, there are written accounts of that happening. In almost all cases, the tone is usually neutral to positive. If you need to bring out some heavy objections I can hunt down the scan of the French thing that I like citing here.

What's the person you're arguing with saying?

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:00

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Disinterested posted:

The so called 'fascist minimum'. It's definitely a way to do fascist history, I just think I'm in the end more compelled to view fascism through the lense of its method and social circumstances because it is just that much more incoherent and lacking in intellectual tradition.

Idk, what does Cyrano think.

I tend to fall more in line with Payne's idea of a set of characteristics that are frequently found - but not always - and that identifying fascism is about deciding if what you're looking at has enough of the common characteristics to qualify. In particular I like his idea of the fascist negations, namely that they set themselves up in stark contrast to liberalism, communism, and to a point conservatism. I like this because it not only describes the broad characteristics, but by focusing on what they are vocally in opposition to it helps to emphasize how contingent each individual movement was on its unique political and historical context. This helps to show the relatedness of, for example, Italian Fascism, German Nazism and the Hungarian Arrow Cross, without casting such a broad net that you're pulling in every authoritarian dictatorship in the last 100 years. Ultimately I think a big part of this is recognizing the 19th century European political and cultural context that all of these emerge from. When we look for proto-fascist intellectual influences this is where we end up concentrating.

I used to like Nolte's approach, but I think he focuses too narrowly on opposition to communism, although I still use him. Payne also has a focus on ideology and methodology that I think does a good job of presenting a series of tributes that are typical but not compulsory. To give you an idea on where I'm coming from with this, it's usually in opposition to Eco's views which I think are too broad and allow a lot of things to get lumped in that probably don't belong there.

fake edit: this might also give an idea why I'm not really convinced that Imperial Japan qualifies as a fascist country. Authoritarian? Yes. Militaristic? Surely. I just don't see the ideological crusading aspect. It was an imperialistic enterprise, not a fascist one.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:08

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

HEY GAIL posted:

and i reacted somewhat harshly because there's a guy on reddit who's been pushing the line that the people who willingly gave up power to hitler were the moderate left--he's far left and he's doing it to blacken them. Sorry.

This was an old school KPD line used to discredit the SPD.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but it seems to me that they quietly tamped down on that in favor of SPD as fellow victims of fascism about the time of the forced marriage of the two to form the SED.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:09

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Cyrano4747 posted:

This was an old school KPD line used to discredit the SPD.

I'm aware of that. but you know how fascism's back? guess what else is back, in half of reddit and like...2/3 of d&d? and no, i don't think they care that we can just look up what really happened for ourselves.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:11

Davin Valkri: Apr 8, 2011; Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!

HEY GAIL posted:

I'm aware of that. but you know how fascism's back? guess what else is back, in half of reddit and like...2/3 of d&d? and no, i don't think they care that we can just look up what really happened for ourselves.

I don't want to go there to check--what else is back alongside fascism?

Also I always thought Eco's famous essay seemed to be a decent enough guide to authoritarianism, even if you're right that it makes all such movements sound fascist. But maybe that's just my inner horseshoe theorist talking?

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:15

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

HEY GAIL posted:

and i reacted somewhat harshly because there's a guy on reddit who's been pushing the line that the people who willingly gave up power to hitler were the moderate left--he's far left and he's doing it to blacken them. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOqb_UzJSUQ

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:18

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Davin Valkri posted:

I don't want to go there to check--what else is back alongside fascism?

unreconstructed tankie communism

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:19

lenoon: Jan 7, 2010

HEY GAIL posted:

unreconstructed tankie communism

There are a bizarre number of stalinists and maoists crawling out of the woodwork. As more of a Trotskyist it makes me fear for my skull - should probably hide my vintage icepick collection.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:25

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

HEY GAIL posted:

unreconstructed tankie communism

The only mod who does a thing in D&D is a textbook North Korean apologist tankie.

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:39

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

HEY GAIL posted:

Female members of the military community were normal. This is how an army went to war--a lot of the things that would have been done by the more-developed infrastructures of political entities that were less hosed up were done, in this case, either by the families of soldiers or by civilian subcontractors (drovers, etc). In both cases, that means women. the people who nurse the sick, drive the carts, carry the poo poo on their backs (soldiers don't carry packs--it's demeaning), cook the food, reap the grain to make the food if they stop handing out bread, are women. In Germany soldiers don't dig, it's demeaning, so all those earthworks? Either civilians in the vicinity you force to do it, or the non-soldier members of the military community. And that means women as well.

Commanders and civilian onlookers seemed to have had contempt for these women because of the sexual licentiousness--some of them were prostitutes, and soldiers didn't always marry their girlfriends. This is why I call all these people "female members of the military community," not "soldiers' wives." Furies has a scene where some renaissance Italian commander has to get over a bridge but the baggage train is in the way so he pushes through anyway, pushing women and children in his own tross into the water, killing them. But objects of contempt or not, they were there. The whole thing would have ground to a halt without them.

as far as women disguising themselves like men to fight, there are written accounts of that happening. In almost all cases, the tone is usually neutral to positive. If you need to bring out some heavy objections I can hunt down the scan of the French thing that I like citing here.

What's the person you're arguing with saying?

Thanks, that's interesting! I just made a drive-by shitpost (the Navy needs more women so good Christian sailors aren't tempted by homosexuality) and he got angry so I figured I better have sources when I have a laptop to seriouspost

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:43

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The only mod who does a thing in D&D is a textbook North Korean apologist tankie.

i call myself a liberal now and no longer say i'm a leftist because of the frothing hatred that people to my left have for me and people like me. horseshow theory is real

StashAugustine posted:

(the Navy needs more women so good Christian sailors aren't tempted by homosexuality)

ooh, that one's got legs, you could get a lot of mileage out of that one. or go the opposite route and say that the military needs no women in it whatsoever so we can reclaim the glory of antiquity. it depends on how christian the people you're talking to you are

# ? Jul 31, 2017 23:48

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

HEY GAIL posted:

i call myself a liberal now and no longer say i'm a leftist because of the frothing hatred that people to my left have for me and people like me. horseshow theory is real

ooh, that one's got legs, you could get a lot of mileage out of that one. or go the opposite route and say that the military needs no women in it whatsoever so we can reclaim the glory of antiquity. it depends on how christian the people you're talking to you are

Without even mousing over I knew what that was going to point to.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:00

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Cyrano4747 posted:

Without even mousing over I knew what that was going to point to.

it could also have been sparta

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:03

Grand Prize Winner: Feb 19, 2007

HEY GAIL posted:

it could also have been sparta

at least the uk has preserved one spartan tradition

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:04

FastestGunAlive: Apr 7, 2010; Dancing palm tree.

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The only mod who does a thing in D&D is a textbook North Korean apologist tankie.

I uhhh don't even uhh huh? What?

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:20

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

icantfindaname posted:

It's a terrible education system, it creates lots of people who have memorized the terms "Nietzsche", "Kant", "Utilitarianism", and maybe a one-line summary of those various philosophies, and those people them spit them out word-salad style into anime scripts. I don't know what show you watched, but if it ended up coherent and interesting that's pure random chance

Most coherent political critiques in anime tend to have a left-wing anti-authoritarian bent, although on occasion there's the odd right-wing one. Gate's not really that bad in those terms, it's basically no worse than a Tom Clancy novel. It's a bad show because it's got lovely animation, creepy too-young female characters, and is boring, but it's not really fascist

Any Japanese media that demonstrates intelligence especially on white people philosophical issues is just the result of a parlor trick, like a parrot pretending to talk, and should not be mistaken for signs of intelligence. Got it.

As for the fascist tango, I read "Fascism: a brief introduction" on Cyrano's suggestion. The author argues that fascism doesn't really have a proper definition, since it strives so hard against truth and reason it always ends up with contradictions both in itself and compared to other things labeled fascist. It does mean though that as a sort of family, they have a hatred of reason, since I see the underlying motive of fascism is wanting to do stuff, being blocked because reason says piss off, and then having to make up lies to ape the form that reason and modernity demands.

lenoon posted:

There are a bizarre number of stalinists and maoists crawling out of the woodwork. As more of a Trotskyist it makes me fear for my skull - should probably hide my vintage icepick collection.

You need to come over to the pragmatist pool, dude

We think all one true ideologies are idiotic by definition

Guadalcanal!

The Japanese have managed to evacuate Guadalcanal, and managed to do so 1)without many losses on their part, and 2) managed to improbably score a USN cruiser due to incompetence of the rear admiral. The Japanese managed to mislead the Americans into thinking they were reinforcing Guadalcanal again (and in the Americans defense, there experience so far had been "fanatical defense" so you can see how they didn't see that coming.) The Japanese left behind all the guys too weak to walk to cover for them, and thoughtfully gave them suicide pills that would kill the poor soldier, abet agonizingly. [FFS Japan it was too much to get painless suicide pills?]

Anyway, amidst all that the Japanese were supplying Guadalcanal by submarine. While American signals couldn't read the messages going to Guadalcanal, they did notice the frequency and the fact they were shuttling between the Guadalcanal garrison and Japanese Submarine commands. So two RNZN corvettes, the Kiwi and the Moa, knew when to wait for a Japanese submarine on a supply run. At 2105, they got a sound contact, and two depth charge attacks brought I-1 to the surface very close to the corvettes. Gunfire was exchanged, with the captain of I-1 being cut down while manning the submarine's gun. After this, Kiwi's captain orders full speed and set course to ram [when the chief engineer objected, the captian said "Shut up! There's a weekend's leave in Auckland dead ahead of us!" So Kiwi rams I-1.

The sub was totally unaware of the two lurking corvettes, having just raised parascope when the first depth charges dropped. The first attack knocked out the motors, leaving no choice but to blow tanks and surface. After the first ramming by the Kiwi, the navigator rushed down the ladder yelling "Swords! Swords!" and the dude was more than just talk, re-emerging on deck with his katana - the navigator was apparently a famous swordsman. The Kiwi rams again, [the captian saying "for this we'll get a week of shore leave in Auckland"] and the lieutenant tries to board the Kiwi, but only manages to get a hand hold on a railing. Things are well messed up on the I-1 now, but the Kiwi's third ramming attack was met with rifle fire. Apparently this whole battle was 90 minutes, but when whoever was in command of the I-1 decided it was time to beach the sub, her stern sank on its own. 47 men managed to escape the I-1, now next to a shore, and remembered to burn and tear up some of I-1's codebooks. Moa captured the swordsman navigator. The Japanese would learn later thanks to a dumb report by an Australian journalist that divers were indeed scavanging the wreck for valuble intel. They apparently recovered 200,000 pages of secret documents - concerning an older Japanese code, not the current one.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:24

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

The only mod who does a thing in D&D is a textbook North Korean apologist tankie.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm but I will say I almost couldn't believe it when in C-SPAM I saw people defending the NKs as "victims of imperialism."

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:25

GotLag: Jul 17, 2005; 食べちゃダメだよ

OwlFancier posted:

And probably a reasonable proportion of the expat regiments who fought as part of the British army.

How did these units get reinforced when they took casualties, in Normandy or Italy or wherever? Or did they slowly dwindle in number?

With regard to pike pushing, isn't this related to believing that pike formations somehow fought in a giant press, shoulder-to-shoulder?

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:28

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Nebakenezzer posted:

Norks

poo poo on the North Korean government all you want, it absolutely deserves it, but don't be a racist poo poo.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:28

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

my dad posted:

poo poo on the North Korean government all you want, it absolutely deserves it, but don't be a racist poo poo.

Absolutely not - are all shortened forms by definition racist?

vv
e: no problem, thanks for the heads up

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:34

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Nebakenezzer posted:

Absolutely not - are all shortened forms by definition racist?

that's crossing the line into racism dude, i was about to say something
NK is even shorter, you can use that

edit: i am glad sub sword man lived

edit 2: :hifive: thanks man

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:37

Vincent Van Goatse: Nov 8, 2006; Enjoy every sandwich.; Smellrose

Nebakenezzer posted:

Guadalcanal!

Kiwi's skipper has quite an interesting life story. Before crashing his ship into an enemy submarine, he was a silver medalist swim champion in the British Empire Games.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:38

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Nebakenezzer posted:

As for the fascist tango, I read "Fascism: a brief introduction" on Cyrano's suggestion.

Legit good book. Not perfect, but probably as close as you can get to untangling the question of "wtf is fascism" in a couple hour read.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:46

Siivola: Dec 23, 2012

HEY GAIL posted:

something about old guns, probs

(seriously though, it's precisely the ideas that interest me, because it's the ideas that we see show up again and again, in disparate times and places. how many of them are necessary for the movement you're looking at to be called fascism? for instance, as far as i can tell the american alt-right has no death cult. which is fascinating! i had thought that wanking yourself raw over a beautiful death was one of the central planks of the thing, but these guys don't seem to believe that!)

Looking from the outside in, I often feel like Americans in general are one step away from a weird death cult. For example, to me it's a profoundly weird, early modern kind of notion that packing a gun just in case you find your loved ones in mortal danger is the responsible thing to do. And then I go to TFR and people are excitedly posting about their cool new goon-made IWB holster. Or the whole our troops thing where every police who dies on the job is a hero and getting blown up in Afghanistan makes you a champion of freedom itself. And then there's the cringe crowd with the moron label t-shirts and cargo pants full of mall ninja crap.

I feel like there's this background radiation of violence around a lot of American stuff nowadays, and any death cult sort of thing would have to be really over the top to stand out from it all.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:50

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Cyrano4747 posted:

fake edit: this might also give an idea why I'm not really convinced that Imperial Japan qualifies as a fascist country. Authoritarian? Yes. Militaristic? Surely. I just don't see the ideological crusading aspect. It was an imperialistic enterprise, not a fascist one.

I've been reading a lot about modern Japanese history, which is where my interest in the Sonderweg came from, because it's so similar to narratives with Japan

The idea that it wasn't fascism is pretty well discredited in scholarship, both in Japan and the US, as far as I can tell. The thing about fascism in Japan was that it came more from the top than in Germany or Italy, and didn't have much of a civilian mobilization component

Here's a pretty good book on the wartime state I just read

http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/?GCOI=80140100512400

quote:

Japan's invasion of Manchuria in September of 1931 initiated a new phase of brutal occupation and warfare in Asia and the Pacific. It forwarded the project of remaking the Japanese state along technocratic and fascistic lines and creating a self-sufficient Asian bloc centered on Japan and its puppet state of Manchukuo. In Planning for Empire, Janis Mimura traces the origins and evolution of this new order and the ideas and policies of its chief architects, the reform bureaucrats. The reform bureaucrats pursued a radical, authoritarian vision of modern Japan in which public and private spheres were fused, ownership and control of capital were separated, and society was ruled by technocrats.

Mimura shifts our attention away from reactionary young officers to state planners�reform bureaucrats, total war officers, new zaibatsu leaders, economists, political scientists, engineers, and labor party leaders. She shows how empire building and war mobilization raised the stature and influence of these middle-class professionals by calling forth new government planning agencies, research bureaus, and think tanks to draft Five Year industrial plans, rationalize industry, mobilize the masses, streamline the bureaucracy, and manage big business. Deftly examining the political battles and compromises of Japanese technocrats in their bid for political power and Asian hegemony, Planning for Empire offers a new perspective on Japanese fascism by revealing its modern roots in the close interaction of technology and right-wing ideology.

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 00:54

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Siivola posted:

Looking from the outside in, I often feel like Americans in general are one step away from a weird death cult. For example, to me it's a profoundly weird, early modern kind of notion that packing a gun just in case you find your loved ones in mortal danger is the responsible thing to do.

i am not referring to our violence, which seems...a little weird...to everyone who isn't us. i'm talking specifically about how Nazis, Romanian Fascists, Spanish Fascists, and Imperial Japanese possibly-Fascists all glorified the idea of their own deaths. when I say that I want to go armed in the future in order to protect myself and my partner, it means I want to preserve my life, I want to live as long as possible. But lots of Fascist thought fixates on the idea that the writer or reader will die--and when he does, that it will be heroic, beautiful, morbidly sexual, etc. The Fascist is not only someone who can cause death, he's someone who rushes toward it: Viva La Muerte! This is why, unlike Disinterested, I think the Imperial Japanese were Fascist, because they hit the death stuff hard. I think that when Benjamin said that fascism is the aestheticization of politics and that it encourages you to look at your own death as an artwork, he was talking about Japan.

But in a break with everything I ever thought about Fascism, most of the alt right doesn't talk about this at all. Maybe I haven't found it yet. But maybe that wasn't an essential part of fascism after all, maybe the Germans and Italians had just got out of ww1, the Germans had that weird duty thing ever since Kant, the Spanish had been goth since the Baroque anyway, and the Japanese already had a tradition of aesthetic responses toward a freely chosen death. Maybe the whole thing was accidental. If so, I was completely wrong as hell, which fascinates me.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:01

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

The issue is the altright is lame as hell

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:15

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

WW2 Data

The penultimate German projectile update is here! Today's update covers a selection of mortar rounds, specifically in the 5cm and 8cm versions. How many fins does a 5cm mortar projectile have as opposed to the 8cm ones? What markings can be seen on a colored smoke round? All that and more at the blog!

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:16

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Here's a troll question: Was Charles de Gaulle a fascist?

HEY GAIL posted:

i am not referring to our violence, which seems...a little weird...to everyone who isn't us. i'm talking specifically about how Nazis, Romanian Fascists, Spanish Fascists, and Imperial Japanese possibly-Fascists all glorified the idea of their own deaths. when I say that I want to go armed in the future in order to protect myself and my partner, it means I want to preserve my life, I want to live as long as possible. But lots of Fascist thought fixates on the idea that the writer or reader will die--and when he does, that it will be heroic, beautiful, morbidly sexual, etc. The Fascist is not only someone who can cause death, he's someone who rushes toward it: Viva La Muerte! This is why, unlike Disinterested, I think the Imperial Japanese were Fascist, because they hit the death stuff hard. I think that when Benjamin said that fascism is the aestheticization of politics and that it encourages you to look at your own death as an artwork, he was talking about Japan.

By the way, I just checked this out of the library, in case you're interested

http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520245051

quote:

In this wide-ranging study of Japanese cultural expression, Alan Tansman reveals how a particular, often seemingly innocent aesthetic sensibility�present in novels, essays, popular songs, film, and political writings�helped create an "aesthetic of fascism" in the years leading up to World War II. Evoking beautiful moments of violence, both real and imagined, these works did not lead to fascism in any instrumental sense. Yet, Tansman suggests, they expressed and inspired spiritual longings quenchable only through acts in the real world. Tansman traces this lineage of aesthetic fascism from its beginnings in the 1920s through its flowering in the 1930s to its afterlife in postwar Japan.

icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Aug 1, 2017

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:27

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

i am, and thank you, but i need to be recording the populations of a billion german cities and putting them in an excel spreadsheet by hand right now

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:41

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

If we're not calling Franco a fascist we're definitely not calling de Gaulle one.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:44

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:21

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Disinterested posted:

If we're not calling Franco a fascist we're definitely not calling de Gaulle one.

he's a featherless biped

# ? Aug 1, 2017 01:46

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Military History Mk. III: One that I know of is an archaic word for dick, another is

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