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lizard_phunk posted:Meanwhile, people are pissed off she's not as "hot" anymore "Wow Audrey is still hot" is like the most common comment I've seen.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:25
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I liked the Audrey scene because it was a snippet of their lives that had nothing to do with the show (as of yet) and made me feel like there's a bigger living world outside of just the half dozen other plates that are spinning.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:29
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I think some people were concerned, as of the main Peaks girls she hasn't aged 'as well' or whatever. Personally I think she's always looked great, but she definitely went through a frumpy stage or w/e while she's been busy with her fam and not working as much. Still a dumb thing to be concerned about, but Audrey was and should still be a sexpot imo and Fenn looks loving great for 25 years later. But yeah I've seen way more 'Audrey is still hot' comments than anyone saying she isn't. e: the audrey scene was great imo because it established where she is and what has changed in 25yr for her, very quickly. it also tied into the missing Billy dude from a handful of episodes back, which I have a feeling will eventually tie into whatever dark poo poo is converging on Twin Peaks. the town has taken a turn for the worse and it's all leading to ~something~ esperterra fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 01:31
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A True Jar Jar Fan posted:"Wow Audrey is still hot" is like the most common comment I've seen. Yeah I haven't seen that criticism anywhere at all. I agree that Audrey being bitter and stuff fits with the character (especially if Richard IS her kid) but that doesn't mean I want to see 11 minutes of her browbeating a dude we've never seen before, discussing people we've never met, and only getting to hear the useless parts of a phone conversation. Earlier on in the show, sure! But not at the end of the second act. And I've loved basically everything so far as a great many of you know. But this was so long and so unpleasant and just seemed to bring up more useless stuff right at the point where we need to spend more time with the characters we know and have storylines tying together Except you can't make this criticism without someone crowing about how you're an uneducated peon so whatever
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Aug 1, 2017 01:31
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They could have done the exact same thing in less than half the time. It would even have been long still. Wally Brando was 4 and a half mins.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:34
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My likes about the Audrey scene aside, I do think the phone call could have been a little shorter. But Fenn's reactions to it were excellent, so I still enjoyed it. e: its position in the season is weird, too, but would the scene be less or more bad if it happened in the first handful of episodes, then Audrey disappeared for half the season til she's relevant again? I get people's issues with the scene 100%. I just liked it myself. esperterra fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 01:35
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Escobarbarian posted:ok, but why was it what you hoped for? why was it 100% Lynch? you see what I'm getting at here? I don't mean this in a mean way but you should rewatch the scene and try to see why people would like it, the phone call especially. I think a lot of people ignored what the guy was saying and assumed he'd actually say something afterwards. Even though he doesn't want to say anything you can pick up quite a bit just based on his side of the conversation and his expression.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:35
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tap my mountain posted:I don't mean this in a mean way but you should rewatch the scene and try to see why people would like it, the phone call especially. I think a lot of people ignored what the guy was saying and assumed he'd actually say something afterwards. Even though he doesn't want to say anything you can pick up quite a bit just based on his side of the conversation and his expression. I just rewatched it like half an hour ago dude
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Aug 1, 2017 01:36
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Ok well this time watch it again and this time, pretend you like it. Maybe it'll be different
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Aug 1, 2017 01:38
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Escobarbarian posted:kaworu, could you please explain what about the Audrey scene you actually liked? as in, besides just "it wasn't what people wanted or expected which is genius!!!!!"? i liked it because audrey was an amoral manipulative person in the original series and seems to be continuing to be an amoral manipulative person. also the acting was great.
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Aug 1, 2017 01:39
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I usually like scenes a lot more upon rewatch because I know exactly what's coming and aren't running off any kind of expectations. The Audrey scene didn't improve one iota for me  like it's weird, but in a show with so much dark and violent and negative stuff it took 11 minutes of someone ranting and screaming for me to finally be like "man this is too unpleasant really" because I found it unpleasant AND dull as dishwater
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Aug 1, 2017 01:40
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Escobarbarian posted:kaworu, could you please explain what about the Audrey scene you actually liked? as in, besides just "it wasn't what people wanted or expected which is genius!!!!!"? Hahaha I will try to explain why I liked the Audrey scene with brevity. At least as much as humanly possible, for me. And yeah, I do sometimes act like the stereotypical snobby Lynch fan, but the truth is that I'm the sort of viewer/aesthete who has infinite patience and can find profundity or beauty in what might ordinarily be seen as mundane or simplistic, as long as it stimulates emotions, thoughts, and feelings. I suppose that also has to do with why I enjoyed the Audrey scene, too. I actually think that the AV Club reviewer had a very on-point analysis of the Audrey scene, and it goes back to the really central thing that Sarah Palmer was saying in her outburst - ""Things can happen! Something happened to me!" Well... I very much get the feeling that "things happened" to Audrey - possibly just the events we are familiar with from the series, possibly more involving Richard - and that they really did one hell of a number on her. I found the scene very resonant on a personal level. Life never turns out the way you expect, and I *highly* doubt that the Audrey of Season 1 could have ever imagined that she would find herself in a room like this, with a man like this, living her life like this. That's the way I related to the scene, because that's the way that I've felt at certain moments in my life, when I've thought to myself how incredibly wrong I was about the life I was going to wind up leading, say, 10 or 15 years ago. Maybe I'm wrong in my reading of the scene, but it felt powerful to me as a result of that. I also thought certain lines were deceptively revealing, and made me think of the old Audrey - such as her talking about her dreams, "sometimes dreams can harken a truth." I don't know why, but I was very struck by the language of that line and the way she used it - "sometimes dreams can harken a truth." That was the one line that really felt like "the old Audrey" to me. And you know, like I was saying before, everyone in Twin Peaks has irrevocably been changed in the intervening years, and those changes can never be undone. This scene also made me think about how "The old Cooper" is just as gone and vanished as "The Old Audrey", and this scene with Audrey very much underscored that for me. In a way I don't think it's a scene you can judge purely on its merits, because it's something of a "meta" scene. By which I mean, I honestly think that the timing of the scene and the state we are first seeing Audrey in, is something of a reaction to fan expectations. I think Lynch very purposely wanted to undercut the fans expectations of seeing Audrey again, and just what kind of Audrey they'd be seeing. On that level, I found the scene fascinating, too. So yeah - that's more or less how I felt. I could go on, but I'm trying to be brief, here. kaworu fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 01:52
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I must have forgotten the tidbit about "cooper" visiting Audrey after he left the hospital in Season 2 during the Truman/Hayward conversation scene, thanks for clarifying that. That does lend a lot of weight to that argument. It makes sense especially given that Good Coop had a thing for Audrey and since Bad Coop apparently shares Good Coop's memories/experiences he would act on those urges in the worst way possible, ie raping a comatose explosion victim
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Aug 1, 2017 02:06
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Maybe the explosion embedded a Pete sperm into Audrey and Richard is really Pete's kid.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:33
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Solice Kirsk posted:Maybe the explosion embedded a Pete sperm into Audrey and Richard is really Pete's kid. See, now we're fuckin getting somewhere.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:34
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Solice Kirsk posted:Maybe the explosion embedded a Pete sperm into Audrey and Richard is really Pete's kid. Oh great, explosion based rape
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Aug 1, 2017 02:37
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Season 3 should have been nothing but 18 hours of the posthumous trial of Thomas Eckhardt: Explosion Rapist.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:55
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Solice Kirsk posted:Maybe the explosion embedded a Pete sperm into Audrey and Richard is really Pete's kid. I wish this were true.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:59
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Solice Kirsk posted:Maybe the explosion embedded a Pete sperm into Audrey and Richard is really Pete's kid.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:18
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kaworu posted:In a way I don't think it's a scene you can judge purely on its merits, because it's something of a "meta" scene. By which I mean, I honestly think that the timing of the scene and the state we are first seeing Audrey in, is something of a reaction to fan expectations. I think Lynch very purposely wanted to undercut the fans expectations of seeing Audrey again, and just what kind of Audrey they'd be seeing. On that level, I found the scene fascinating, too. "Don't you see, by not making anything the fans expect, but he's making for those fans and we love it!" is just a contradiction. So any analysis that involves "fans" or "meta" is just rubbish. But I'm sure reddit or yourself will just say "the contradiction is the point!" which is insane and quite honestly a poo poo premise for any show. Despite how poor I find this season, I think Lynch is above such amateur attempts that a poo poo director would come up with, using similar nonsensical explanations for poor work or bury critique in jargon and flood of "meta"-nonsense. Zmej fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 03:18
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outside of deeper analysis or interpretation, i just think this is the most entertaining and well written show on tv. it's a joy to watch each week.
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Aug 1, 2017 03:21
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Kurtofan posted:Audrey's still hot this
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Aug 1, 2017 03:43
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I think the thing that's interesting about the Audrey scene is that when people are in lovely long term relationships patterns and history have a lot of weight that never go away, and the history and patterns in Audrey's marriage are implied in that scene. Her husband wants her to love him. But he's stubborn, lazy, and unemotional. He doesn't understand Audrey and what she cares about. He wants a happy marriage but is utterly incapable of connecting to Audrey because of who he is. Ultimately he can only give a pathetic compromise to Audrey's call to action: a loving phone call. The phone call is even more revealing. When given knowledge about a topic his wife is concerned about (the entire purpose for the call) he withholds the information at the request of Tina, showing ultimately what kind of garbage man he is: he's loyal to acquaintances over his wife. But also he's loyal to his paperwork, what a guy. I guess if you're a CHUD who's never had an (abusive) relationship you wouldn't understand.
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Aug 1, 2017 04:15
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Did anything ever get released about why the real Truman suddenly left this show? There was that whole thing about him even trying to get the original jacket back and then bam replaced by Robert forester
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Aug 1, 2017 04:15
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Empress Brosephine posted:Did anything ever get released about why the real Truman suddenly left this show? There was that whole thing about him even trying to get the original jacket back and then bam replaced by Robert forester Well it wasn't suddenly. He quit acting like 6 years ago
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Aug 1, 2017 04:16
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He was back and signe don for this then left. It was kinda around when Lynch quit this reboot
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Aug 1, 2017 04:20
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Also I wish Leo somehow survived the original series because I bet he'd be amazing in this
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Aug 1, 2017 04:22
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Empress Brosephine posted:He was back and signe don for this then left. It was kinda around when Lynch quit this reboot Oh I didn't know this. I looked it up and you're right. http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/michael-ontkean-not-new-twin-peaks/
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Aug 1, 2017 04:26
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I completely forgot about that reused Dr. Amp scene, what the gently caress was that about? Was it literally the same scenes as last time?
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Aug 1, 2017 04:39
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Cromulent posted:I completely forgot about that reused Dr. Amp scene, what the gently caress was that about? Was it literally the same scenes as last time? I think it was a slightly different rant, but he does nearly the same intro and plays the same shovel commercial. I wonder how long his show actually runs.
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Aug 1, 2017 04:43
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I assume like James and Wally, the Audrey scene was a one-off and tbh I'd be surprised if she starts showing up regularly. I think "we'll never actually understand this conversation, and never know what her husband withheld" was the whole point.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:00
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Zmej posted:Calling something meta is just lazy analysis and/or SMG-style shitposting. Any line of thinking that believes Lynch "anticipated" fan reaction goes against a life time of his film making style. That may be the case for his other works but it's not the case for this. the entire thing is an exercise in subverting expectations, from the macro down to the micro level. we expect cooper and pie, we get death and dougie. one episode ends with drat good pie, we get 10 seconds of dougie the next episode as braindead as ever.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:16
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Atoramos posted:I assume like James and Wally, the Audrey scene was a one-off and tbh I'd be surprised if she starts showing up regularly. I think "we'll never actually understand this conversation, and never know what her husband withheld" was the whole point. If that ends up being the case, then I will have to agree it is as terrible a scene as many people say. I think that it is going to be related to finding out more about Richard Horne and we'll find out more in the next episode. Billy had his truck stolen by Chuck, but then got it back and dropped all charges. I think it's the truck that Richard hit the kid with, Billy was the guy Andy was talking to (he's only credited as "Farmer" as far as I can tell) and dropped the charges because he knew what happened with Richard and the truck and knew that Richard would kill him if he talked. Andy went to follow up with Billy, who begged him to go away because he knew if Richard saw him talking to the police he would assume he was ratting him out. Unfortunately, Richard did see him and assumed exactly that and killed him. He'd been missing all day and that's why someone was asking at the diner if anyone had seen him (assuming the subtitles were indeed inaccurate in saying "Bing".) Audrey's husband found out some or all of this on the phone call, but is either reluctant to tell Audrey for some reason, or it's just a cliffhanger.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:17
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Zmej posted:Calling something meta is just lazy analysis and/or SMG-style shitposting. Any line of thinking that believes Lynch "anticipated" fan reaction goes against a life time of his film making style. Also, Lynch's quite public disregard for fan analysis and desires shows he gives no thought to it. Thus, there can't be any anticipation of their reaction to create this batshit idea of "art" people have whisked up. I know you're really angry at something, but I really don't think it's me. It's not like I'm particularly attached to that analysis or even think it's necessarily correct, I was just throwing out a bunch of reasons why I thought the scene worked. And to me, one of the reasons why it worked was because it simply wasn't what I was expecting to see with regard to the return of Audrey's character. And I liked that, because it was surprising, and assumed there might have been some intention behind it. Sorry you think it's lazy analysis, shitposting, and going against a lifetime of Lynch's film-making style. I always thought Lynch was quite interested in fan reaction to his work, he just feels under no obligation to validate any particular analysis as true or relate a great deal of his own interpretations of his work. Because clumsy spoken words aren't nearly as precise as this film he's spent years meticulously crafting. I do agree that Lynch would not give any kind of poo poo about "how fans might feel" regarding his work. But with a project like this where 25 years has elapsed in both the show's world and the real world, it's impossible not to consider the fact that people have lived with these characters as unchanging for 25 years (or however long) and who a given character (like Audrey) was 25 years ago, and how she was perceived both on the show and off cannot really be ignored. The same goes for practically every character. Do you think Lynch wasn't playing with expectations a bit when he dramatically revealed Laura Dern as Diane at the end of an episode, the way that he did? Give me a break.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:40
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With the slow main plot progression in this season and speculation that Cooper won't come back at all, it is really making me wonder what season 2 would have been like if they had never resolved Laura's murder and the investigation just went on and on with no real progression or resolution (but with David Lynch staying involved throughout.) VVVVV Yeah, I think I've sort of come around on Audrey's portrayal. This makes a lot of sense in who she is now. Every other returning character we've seen just immediately felt right with their portrayal, and it didn't click with me like that for Audrey. But I can see her behavior making more sense if she wasn't where Section 9 fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 05:55
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I don't think that's the last Audrey scene we see given how likely it is that Richard is her son. But I did enjoy the scene or at least respected it for what I think Lynch was trying to make us feel with it. It's very deliberate that they waited so long to reintroduce Audrey and spend most of her scene talking about people we don't know and likely won't completely meet. We're meant to reconcile this Audrey with the ambitious sexpot Audrey from the first two seasons - we (or at least I) expected her to be married to some well-off person (the cliche of having a husband just like the dad she despised), probably dealing with a teenage daughter that acts just like her, etc. etc. That's what would happen in most other stories. But we're left trying to piece together how the hell she ended up in this marriage, with (possibly) a total sociopath for a son. And Lynch/Frost want us to infer the last 25 years of her life based on her constant swearing (denoting unhappiness with her life), her impatience, lack of respect for her husband, talking about people we'll never know or care about because after 25 years, no matter who you are/were, life may just end up being totally different and/or anticlimactic compared to what you or others wanted for you. It's definitely not a satisfying scene and it's maybe not a great scene, but I think it was very effective. And pretty funny.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:57
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NO you're trolling Lynch NEVER would take into account how TP fans feel about a character he is above such things and it goes against his entire lifes work 
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Aug 1, 2017 06:18
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I think the Audrey scene was a great summation of David Lynch's sense of humour in regards to 'trolling' his audience which we've repeatedly seen throughtout this season, with Dougie's long moments of nothing, the diner sweeping, Wally Brando's speeches, etc. There's nothing more frustrating than hearing one side of a conversation, especially when you have a stake in what you (Audrey and we the audience) want to hear. Doubly so when it's a conversation continually namedropping people you know nothing about. You could totally feel her frustration boiling in the moment. Even the visual element of her husband quite literally being a 'little man' who is reluctant to deal with things - in appearances as well as metaphor. I find all of these both fascinating and oddly hilarious in the moment - you will likely never see this sort of weird edge case stuff on a syndicated TV series again. Whether it will hold up when we know the whole story and on repeated viewings is questionable, but for the moment I'm having a blast. :Edit: After hearing the story that they wrote 8 episodes but Showtime ordered 16, sometimes I think the genesis of many of these over-long scenes came from a desire to troll the network, but I love it all the same. Isometric Bacon fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 06:27
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Isometric Bacon posted:I think the Audrey scene was a great summation of David Lynch's sense of humour in regards to 'trolling' his audience which we've repeatedly seen throughtout this season, with Dougie's long moments of nothing, the diner sweeping, Wally Brando's speeches, etc. I think "trolling" is a poor choice of phrase for Lynch's intent. "Trolling" implies that he is doing it to intentionally annoy his audience for his own pleasure. If the point of the scene is to present the reality of how frustrating such a thing can be and to allow the audience to genuinely feel what the characters feel in the scene it is not "trolling". Sort of related, I feel like Lynch actually puts a lot of "realism" in his work. Aside from all the weird stuff, there's often scenes where people are either having a dialogue or reacting to something in a way that is much more realistic to how real people would handle it, as opposed to how characters in a movie would handle it. He also sometimes shows scenes play out as they would in reality, making the audience wait while someone goes to another room and comes back and such. So you get long scenes of seemingly nothing happening or just stuff that seems boringly mundane. He shows all the boring mundane stuff because it serves to amplify the weird and horrifying stuff that happens around it because it feels more like that weird stuff is happening in reality and not in a movie. (Edit: To overexplain, I think a lot of people get frustrated and think he's just leading the audience on because so much of the other media we consume is full of shortcuts and unnatural behavior from characters that we accept as "movie reality" and when it is not there it comes across as weird.) Section 9 fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 06:33
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Audrey also hated her mother for blaming Johnny's condition on her, so it might also explain why Richard doesn't give a poo poo about going over there and treating her like he did, but didn't seem to use the same tactics on Ben (as far as I know)when he refused. Audreys crazy as poo poo he had to learn it from somewhere. He could also just be evil incarnate.
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