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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I want to use edge's SSB for the Tonberry fights but how do I build his gauge with no lifesiphon and wrath? His ability pool is not the best You'll be reliant on just fast actions. So use things like ninja magic, powerchain, quick hit, etc.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 05:35 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 16:20 |
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D300 CM down with lackluster synergy. Ingus with Cloud RW did 85% of the legwork and my one relevant SB was Josef's old +30% Boostga unique. It was also my first time actually using Wall, and while it was really helpful I might have even made do without it.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 05:57 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I want to use edge's SSB for the Tonberry fights but how do I build his gauge with no lifesiphon and wrath? His ability pool is not the best Join a team with an imperil he can hit, or bring your own. With ninja he can hit Fire, Water, Lightning, and Wind. Shooter adds Ice, but stick to ninja if you can. Bring Battleforged/Ace Striker, someone else can handle the initial cast, one person with Last Stand isn't enough anyway. I brought Edge to a team with Zack BSB+CSB, and Gust was gaining enough meter to always have another cast when I needed it (We had a Yuna and Eiko USB as well, so I wasn't exactly spamming it) I was out of ability uses by the end with 2 R4 ninja skills though. Has anyone tried Galuf SSB, and if so, does it completely break the fight? I only thought to try it right as I finished the Apoc fight.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 06:41 |
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alansmithee posted:I was wondering which of the thief/sharpshooter/ninja skills are worth crafting and honing up? I've started using a few more dudes with access to those skills (plus with Shadow coming up I wanna get some ninja stuff done up) but I'm not quite sure which if any are decent, especially with ninja. Are any due for buffs? Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global. Thief
Ninja
Shooter
Attestant fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ? Aug 1, 2017 07:19 |
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Attestant posted:Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global. This helps a lot! But I should add that for Edge specifically he only has 4* Thief which is extremely unfortunate with how good the 5* and 6* ones are. Bob Locke posted:Join a team with an imperil he can hit, or bring your own. With ninja he can hit Fire, Water, Lightning, and Wind. Shooter adds Ice, but stick to ninja if you can. Ooh good thinking. I was going to spam powerchain but I'll run out of that really quickly. Are you actually doing ok damage or is he really there for the SSB? I don't have much Magic stuff I can equip on him. I was also thinking of the shooter fire skill since I have a good FF8 physical weapon that boosts fire and an armor that boosts fire but I dunno if the calculation makes ninja magic do more. I quickly realized how useless keeping Wall up and applying HP bubbles is for this fight and Last stand/blink can potentially waste a lot of his turns instead so I'm willing to bring him just for that
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 07:52 |
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Uncle Ulty posted:Is it just me or are JS battles kinda trivial to master now if you have a couple of OSBs? If you have 2 or 3 characters bringing OSBs plus a handful of buffs or debuffs, the bosses just don't have the HP to withstand 6-8 consecutive massive hits. Today I brought Gilgamesh and Squall, and after a Shout plus an activation of Cloud USB RW for each of them, and Edea just melted before either of them could use all three bars. But I guess if they just increased the JS boss HP, then it wouldn't be possible WITHOUT a stack of OSBs. It's impossible to balance around Cloud USB because it's an inherently game-shattering effect. If they balance boss HP/defenses around people dropping Cloud USB gimmicks on them, the bosses will become impossible for people who don't use it. Therefore, Cloud USB basically gets to be a cheat code to pull out when you don't feel like actually doing a fight. It actually annoys me because they could have made the USB insanely strong and top tier in a number of ways without doing the break damage cap garbage and it still would have been a top tier SB on a top tier character, but instead they just blew the game balance apart to get people to whale.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 10:20 |
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It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 11:42 |
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Zurai posted:It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken Oh, it would definitely still be insane if they took that part off; Crit = 100% would be enough to make it super top class as it is. The damage cap break is just what lets it trivialize stuff like torments with little effort, because you can fairly trivially set up a lot of characters to do OSB levels of damage every single turn which no boss in the game is tuned to survive. Kanos fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:06 |
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Do you even need Cloud USB to dunk 220 JS with OSBs? She has 450 health, assuming you can buff your OSBs to do 50k three people with three casts kill her with nothing else used.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:06 |
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Neutral Zone Trap posted:Do you even need Cloud USB to dunk 220 JS with OSBs? She has 450 health, assuming you can buff your OSBs to do 50k three people with three casts kill her with nothing else used. I'm mostly grousing about torments and how I feel silly if I spend 10 minutes fighting Geosgaeno fairly with a normal party as opposed to blowing him up in 30 seconds with Cloud USB RW. Normal JS are pretty easy for any account that can clear events reliably, USB or no.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:08 |
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I would probably feel more like you do if the Bahamut 300 hadn't been such a kick in the balls. Boss heals for 9k after you attack, kind of cuts you out off a lot of fair game options. I know I had none left. gently caress your torments DeNa. Why don't you collect your titan shreds off the floor once my Cloud USB powered BSB entries have ripped the trio to pieces.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:18 |
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Zurai posted:It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken Yeah, they could "fix" Cloud USB compared to its contemporaries in one of two utterly apocalyptic ways: either make bosses immune to critical hits OR somehow softcap passive damage boosts. Being able to break the damage cap, alone, isn't what makes Cloud USB absurd. Most moves are such low potency that even if you clear five digits per hit, you're not at all going to clear 20k on most multi-hit moves unassisted. Let's mathcraft a common feeder move - Cloud Cycle's CMD1, Sonic Rush. We'll assume it's hitting its max Omega Drive styled threshold at >977ish ATK, for the sake of the argument. On its own, that's four 0.65x hits - a total of 2.6x, But wait, you might say, that's barely stronger than Tornado Strike, and pales in comparison to Twinstrikes already! That's when you get into the "fun" parts - namely, stacking multipliers. Assume that it's a neutral boss with full imperils (fully weak bosses are hardly extant any more, at least in content where it makes a difference, and if you're hitting a slightly weak boss with imperils then you don't really "need" Cloud USB to chump them).
...we're not done. As far as I know, everything from here on out stacks multiplicatively, as they're disparate effects (and thus, are calculated separately)
So. Looking at our final multipliers, we're looking at... 2.2*1.6*1.3*2.0*1.12=10.25x power per hit. Suddenly, those 0.65x damage Sonic Rush hits are doing 6.6x damage - each one is as strong as an early-run AoE SSB. You get four of them. The move, in total, has a total power of 26.65x in this scenario - about as powerful as his normal OSB against a neutral enemy with that equipment loadout. Except it's at normal cast time, for as many attacks as you can cram into those 15s of the EX mode, and its effective damage cap is four times higher. tl;dr: The removal of the damage cap alone wouldn't break Cloud USB, but on top of everything else, it certainly does uncork the explosive volcanic steam vent of bullshit all the multipliers make it into. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:28 |
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KataraniSword posted:tl;dr: The removal of the damage cap alone wouldn't break Cloud USB, but on top of everything else, it certainly does uncork the explosive volcanic steam vent of bullshit all the multipliers make it into. Yeah, and if you left everything on Cloud USB alone but removed the damage cap break it would turn Cloud(or anyone using the RW) into a fountain of reliable 9999s which is insanely strong but not "I just one rounded D300 Bahamut".
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:35 |
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It's not really fair to use Ramza and Zack in those calculations though - many people don't have those. And you definitely don't need either to pull off crazy things with Cloud. But Cloud USB just gives people the power to smash through the limits the game gives them, all the things like multipler stacking were already in play. The auto-crit and 30% boost went a bit too far, but them's the breaks. There's a reason it has only been re-relased on regular banners once - and that was on a fest banner, no less. It's also the same reason they've toned down BSBs after Squall's BSB2 (note how Balthier and Thancred's BSB2s, released after, were a lot tamer in comparison despite having a similar mechanic). They can't nerf things, so this is the best they can do.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:35 |
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ApplesandOranges posted:It's not really fair to use Ramza and Zack in those calculations though - many people don't have those. At the same time, I strongly suspect that the trifecta is why not a single Multiplayer boss is weak to wind from here on out and most are explicitly omniresist. EDIT: Kanos posted:Yeah, and if you left everything on Cloud USB alone but removed the damage cap break it would turn Cloud(or anyone using the RW) into a fountain of reliable 9999s which is insanely strong but not "I just one rounded D300 Bahamut". You'd also break a number of Japan's gacha laws if not America's advertising laws. It was rolled out, now they have to live with the big poo poo they took in the middle of the room, same way they had to live with Wall breaking things sideways. Far easier to change the mechanics people can't see than remove what was explicitly lauded. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:38 |
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Wind has never been that popular of a weakness. III has the most famous ones with Bahamut and Garuda, and I can't really think of many others - Hashmal in XII, maybe. So I don't really think that it's that surprising, Ice/Fire/Lightning/Holy have always been the 'go-to' weakness points. I feel kind of bad for Dark if anything. Poor Zeid in the next event, his sole real 'difficult' content (Torment Dark Seeker) is resistant to his own primary element.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:52 |
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Take away the +95% damage from Cloud USB (+160% with Chant or Zack) and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The break damage cap isn't the powerful part, it's the 100% stacking damage-doubling-and-more effect that should have been tuned down pre-release. If Cloud USB was "five wind/dark hits, self +30% Attack/Defense, EX Mode: Soldier (Quick Cast 1 after using Combat abilities, can break damage cap with physical attacks) for 15 seconds" it'd be decent but nowhere close to sniffing overpowered and it would be a lot more like other EX Modes.
Zurai fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Aug 1, 2017 |
# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:55 |
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ApplesandOranges posted:I feel kind of bad for Dark if anything. Poor Zeid in the next event, his sole real 'difficult' content (Torment Dark Seeker) is resistant to his own primary element. At least Dark will always have its niche of obliterating exactly 50% of all given Dissidia events.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:56 |
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KataraniSword posted:You'd also break a number of Japan's gacha laws. It was rolled out, now they have to live with the big poo poo they took in the middle of the room, same way they had to live with Wall breaking things sideways. Far easier to change the mechanics people can't see than remove what was explicitly lauded. This is not true. It wouldn't break Japan's gacha laws because the only law Japan has regarding gachas is to ban compugachas ie complete gachas, where you have to draw multiple different items of a set in order to get full effect from any one item.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 12:58 |
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Zurai posted:This is not true. It wouldn't break Japan's gacha laws because the only law Japan has against gachas is to ban compugachas ie complete gachas, where you have to draw multiple different items of a set in order to get full effect from any one item. I admit I'm no expert, little more than a parrot. All I know is that if they change something they already hosed up on release, something's gonna implode legally somewhere and we'd have a dead game on our hands. Where exactly it is, I couldn't tell you. Zurai posted:Take away the +95% damage from Cloud USB (+160% with Chant or Zack) and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The break damage cap isn't the powerful part, it's the 100% stacking damage-doubling-and-more effect that should have been tuned down pre-release. If Cloud USB was "five wind/dark hits, self +30% Attack/Defense, EX Mode: Soldier (Quick Cast 1 after using Combat abilities, can break damage cap with physical attacks) for 15 seconds" it'd be decent but nowhere close to sniffing overpowered and it would like a lot more like other EX Modes. On the other hand, this is spot-on. Imagine it like a car driving at 500 miles per hour. Removing the damage cap is like removing a wall it would have crashed immediately into right out of the gate, which makes things far worse, but the core problem is why is the car moving that goddamn fast to begin with.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:02 |
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KataraniSword posted:Oh, and Zack's also here contributing a Wind Chain. Let's assume for simplicity you only have the hits from the BSB entry and USB on this tally, and that magically the multiplier doesn't increase with each respective hit of the attack - so 12 hits gives us a 1.12x chain. All element chains also give you a 20% damage boost to the element in question, so it'd be 1.32x or so at this point.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:04 |
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KataraniSword posted:At least Dark will always have its niche of obliterating exactly 50% of all given Dissidia events. It also 'suffers' from having Raines obsoleting any other users of the element other than maybe Kuja and Sephiroth. I'm not sure how well Gabranth does with his USB, but I think you need either his BSB or to dump Dark Orbs into the 5* Darkness physical skills that nobody else really uses.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:11 |
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Cleared the 3CM with these guys: https://www.ffrkcentral.com/profile/mB5d As opposed to X I actually had decent physical dudes for this realm so could keep using Cloud USB even for the CM. Big fan of Dwindling Spirit. It was free, it does at least three hits and with endark hits for a good amount of damage. I also had Sephiroth use it for the VII CM vs Jenova. Sephiroth was my only real damage source on that fight with Transcience. Probably not worth the four use hone but a good role player here and there.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:33 |
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I wonder if I could do the CM based solely around Tifa BSB + Cloud USB RW shennanigans, while hauling three FF2 idiots to the fight with old SSB's. Or maybe I should just wait and see if I ever get FF2 goodies.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:50 |
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How are people beating the Edea JS? Just ignoring sleepga and dispel and whatever and just going in with Cloud USB and imperils? I'm having a tough time here with only a couple sleep resist accessories. I might throw in a medica. I dunno. Any advice is welcome.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 13:58 |
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The sleep only hits the front row so if you can bring more back row folk that helps. Or have your physical dudes use a gun or something. Also you can just punch your guys back awake. Affliction Break can help if you've got it, Mind Breakdown too.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 14:05 |
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Elephant Ambush posted:How are people beating the Edea JS? Just ignoring sleepga and dispel and whatever and just going in with Cloud USB and imperils? Sleepga only hits units in the front row. If your entire team is back row (so either they're mages or back row attackers), that attack is harmless.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 14:09 |
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If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB. Is there anything similar for mage teams? Are mage teams the way to go in this fight?
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 14:47 |
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If you just need one good Sleep-resist accessory, the Brawler's Bandana from the Nightmare dungeons should work. It's major resist and 20 Attack.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 15:09 |
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ceaselessfuture posted:Am on Android and I will try this out right away! Also, try rebooting your phone if you haven't already.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 15:15 |
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Elephant Ambush posted:Are mage teams the way to go in this fight? I typically just use my A+ team for the Jump Start too but I guess I'll try some silly Cloud USB team for it this time
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 16:12 |
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Attestant posted:Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global. Thanks a lot for this, was exactly what I was looking for (actually, more than I was looking for). Figured since I've had to move more and more away from my main teams, it's probably also good to look at the different skills that I've not really branched into.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 16:13 |
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KataraniSword posted:Yeah, they could "fix" Cloud USB compared to its contemporaries in one of two utterly apocalyptic ways: either make bosses immune to critical hits OR somehow softcap passive damage boosts. Being able to break the damage cap, alone, isn't what makes Cloud USB absurd. Most moves are such low potency that even if you clear five digits per hit, you're not at all going to clear 20k on most multi-hit moves unassisted. Element boosting record materia actually count as elemental: self so they stack multiplicatively with gear+enwind. Elemental boosts from record dives and legend dives are also elemental: self. (from the pdf). So it's 2.47x, a decent chunk better. So depending on if a character's dive/LM boosts PHY/BLK or an element, there might be some tiny difference between the 1.3x PHY/BLK damage RM and the 1.3x element RM.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 16:24 |
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Elephant Ambush posted:If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB. Given my A-Teams are Magic-based in the first place, I can say it's easier... Edea and Fujin with their Bursts cheapened the fight even if the former relied on Two sources of Faithga (Yuna's Tenets and RW!Rikku) and my Hones of Chain Thunda/Firaga until JS!Edea was weak to Ice and the Latter was helped by the Back-row Support Squad (Dart!Setzer's PBD + DBD + MgFl + Cmd1 and Gun!Tyro's Wall + FB + MgBD).
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 16:35 |
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Elephant Ambush posted:If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB. A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think! Arbitrary Number posted:Element boosting record materia actually count as elemental: self so they stack multiplicatively with gear+enwind. Elemental boosts from record dives and legend dives are also elemental: self. (from the pdf). So it's 2.47x, a decent chunk better. Does that mean I should be giving Tidus his + water RM and not a + sword RM?
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 16:51 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think! Assuming you are making attack cap, yes.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 17:01 |
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I have edge bsb so I egged him to 80 so I could fight geosgano rw kimihari bsb figuring "sure, it's water, that'll work!" NOPE said gently caress it and brought my A-team holy party and rw WoL chain. Here is a real image of what then happened to Geosgano:
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 17:33 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think! His dives give him +12% water damage in total and his LM1 gives him +10% water, for 22%. If you use the +water RM, then you add them and get 52% or 1.52x If you use the +sword RM, then you multiply 1.22 with 1.3 and get 1.586x So it's better to use +sword, but it really is a tiny difference. If you do 10k damage with the +water RM, you'll only do about 400 more with +water.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 17:34 |
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I had never considered taking a bunch of OSBs to a JS fight before. Went to Edea with 3 mage OSBs and a BSB, stacked up a bunch of magic buffs and atomized her. It was a good feeling.
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 17:39 |
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# ? Jun 4, 2024 16:20 |
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Arbitrary Number posted:His dives give him +12% water damage in total and his LM1 gives him +10% water, for 22%. Wait now that I check the damage jump is about the same as going from a 1.25x RM to a 1.3x RM. So maybe it matters?
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# ? Aug 1, 2017 17:46 |