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Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

I want to use edge's SSB for the Tonberry fights but how do I build his gauge with no lifesiphon and wrath? His ability pool is not the best

You'll be reliant on just fast actions. So use things like ninja magic, powerchain, quick hit, etc.

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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
D300 CM down with lackluster synergy. Ingus with Cloud RW did 85% of the legwork and my one relevant SB was Josef's old +30% Boostga unique. It was also my first time actually using Wall, and while it was really helpful I might have even made do without it.

Bob Locke
Dec 31, 2007

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

I want to use edge's SSB for the Tonberry fights but how do I build his gauge with no lifesiphon and wrath? His ability pool is not the best

Join a team with an imperil he can hit, or bring your own. With ninja he can hit Fire, Water, Lightning, and Wind. Shooter adds Ice, but stick to ninja if you can.

Bring Battleforged/Ace Striker, someone else can handle the initial cast, one person with Last Stand isn't enough anyway.

I brought Edge to a team with Zack BSB+CSB, and Gust was gaining enough meter to always have another cast when I needed it (We had a Yuna and Eiko USB as well, so I wasn't exactly spamming it) I was out of ability uses by the end with 2 R4 ninja skills though.


Has anyone tried Galuf SSB, and if so, does it completely break the fight? I only thought to try it right as I finished the Apoc fight.

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.

alansmithee posted:

I was wondering which of the thief/sharpshooter/ninja skills are worth crafting and honing up? I've started using a few more dudes with access to those skills (plus with Shadow coming up I wanna get some ninja stuff done up) but I'm not quite sure which if any are decent, especially with ninja. Are any due for buffs?

Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global.

Thief
  • Steal HP - It's a 2* skill so the power isn't all that impressive. But it's still decent self heal for thieves when you're still new and cant afford Thief's Revenge.
  • Steal Time - Kind of rubbish. Soul breaks are where you get your haste from, and there are better ways to slow things.
  • Steal Defense and Power - These skills are ok. They're basically Armor and Power Breakdown that grant the thief a buff instead of doing damage to the enemy. Steal Power is situationally nice when running a thief in a party with no Shout or other +Atk booster.
  • Mug Time - See Steal Time. Basically the same effect, only now with some damage on top. This is getting a buff in the future to be two hits, but that won't redeem it. Avoid.
  • Thief's Revenge - Now we're getting to the really good stuff. With 170 speed you get five high damage hits that also steal health, making this both great damage and healing. It's not going to get buffs in the future, but it doesn't need them. If you can hit the speed requirement, this is a recommended craft.
  • Poison Leaves and Dash & Slash - Good elemental damage skills. Hit as hard as Spellblade equivalents, or even harder if you have a dagger equipped. Solid skills, but you also really want a reason to use them. Either a poison/wind weak target, or an appropriate Imperil or EnElement. Getting a buff to 4 hits later on.
  • Mug Bloodlust - Absolutely stellar skill, and one of the better 6* skills in the game. Has a rare stacking debuff and buff on one skill, and hits like a truck. Just rank 1 will go far, because the debuff/buff durations are fairly long. It will also be buffed to spread the damage over multiple hits, making it even better. Only issue is that Thief motes are a pain to get. But if you do have them, and have good soul breaks for a Thief, this skill should be pretty high on the priority list to make.

Ninja
  • Shuriken - No.
  • Swift Bolt, Water Veil, and Fire Veil - Ninja Magic is... strange. The base damage is very low, but the cast time is fast and the skills ignore resistance. You also hit the Mag cap pretty fast, at 370 magic. However if you can stack things like +Elemental% damage and +Ninja% damage, these skills provide respectable AoE damage (4000-6000 damage per hit is doable). If you can hit a weakness, these are also a good way to build up soul breaks. Also start with 4 uses, so these get a lot of uses for cheap orbs.
  • Gust - Same as above, only Wind damage and slightly higher base damage.
  • Phantasm - Non-elemental variant of the above, but you exchange AoE for single target and a high chance to Sleep the target. One of the best ways to Sleep enemies, in fact. Damage is also pretty good for elementally resistant targets, but this time you can't buff the damage with +Element% gear.
  • Shadowsteel - Single target physical damage this time, with the unique utility of inflicting Sap. But nothing worthwhile is actually vulnerable to Sap these days, so skip this.
  • Flurry of Petals - Theoretically decent physical damage if you can stack enough buffs, but nothing amazing. Same buffs will make better physical skills and soul breaks do more damage as well, so eh. Skippable.
  • Raging Storm and Smoldering Fire - More ninja magic, this time elemental + double hit + single target. Extremely high DPS if you have the appropriate elemental and ninja boosts, double casts, etc. But these really require building around, so they're not exactly universally useful.
  • Doppelblade - AoE physical attack that applies Sap. See Shadowsteel. It's getting buffed to being much faster to cast, but it still doesn't save it from being pretty useless overall.
  • Stitch in Time - Currently slightly confused 6* skill that does two physical hits, but then buffs your Mag. So to get most use out of it, you need to be hybrid statted. And since Ninja magic caps at a really low Mag, the buff is questionable in value for most Ninjas. There are exceptions like Fujin who can use Ninja AND Black Magic, but that's niche. However it is getting buffed to an +Atk/Mag boost, making it much nicer for the hybrid role. Not a priority, but worth keeping in mind if you get good Ninja soul breaks. (edit: To clarify further, it's +Mag/-Def already, meaning it stacks with a lot of buffs. will be updated to +Atk/+Mag/-Def, still stacking with almost everything.)

Shooter
  1. Hydroburst, Blue Deep, and Flame Burst - Simple elemental AoE physical attacks, with slight damage boost for using a ranged weapon. Nothing amazing, but decent for mopping up trash mobs, or when there are fights with multiple opponents with the appropriate weakness.
  2. Sapphire Shot, Icicle Shot, and Ruby Spark - Very similar to the Thief elemental double hits. Hits about as hard as spellblades do without a ranged weapon, higher with one. These are also being buffed to 4 hits in the future. Perfectly good DPS tools when you need to hit the weakness, or have Imperil or EnElement.

Attestant fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Aug 1, 2017

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

Attestant posted:

Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global.

This helps a lot! But I should add that for Edge specifically he only has 4* Thief which is extremely unfortunate with how good the 5* and 6* ones are.

Bob Locke posted:

Join a team with an imperil he can hit, or bring your own. With ninja he can hit Fire, Water, Lightning, and Wind. Shooter adds Ice, but stick to ninja if you can.

Ooh good thinking. I was going to spam powerchain but I'll run out of that really quickly. Are you actually doing ok damage or is he really there for the SSB? I don't have much Magic stuff I can equip on him.

I was also thinking of the shooter fire skill since I have a good FF8 physical weapon that boosts fire and an armor that boosts fire but I dunno if the calculation makes ninja magic do more.

I quickly realized how useless keeping Wall up and applying HP bubbles is for this fight and Last stand/blink can potentially waste a lot of his turns instead so I'm willing to bring him just for that

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Uncle Ulty posted:

Is it just me or are JS battles kinda trivial to master now if you have a couple of OSBs? If you have 2 or 3 characters bringing OSBs plus a handful of buffs or debuffs, the bosses just don't have the HP to withstand 6-8 consecutive massive hits. Today I brought Gilgamesh and Squall, and after a Shout plus an activation of Cloud USB RW for each of them, and Edea just melted before either of them could use all three bars. But I guess if they just increased the JS boss HP, then it wouldn't be possible WITHOUT a stack of OSBs.

Either way, I'm not complaining. I love me some free 4 and 5* motes.

It's impossible to balance around Cloud USB because it's an inherently game-shattering effect. If they balance boss HP/defenses around people dropping Cloud USB gimmicks on them, the bosses will become impossible for people who don't use it. Therefore, Cloud USB basically gets to be a cheat code to pull out when you don't feel like actually doing a fight.

It actually annoys me because they could have made the USB insanely strong and top tier in a number of ways without doing the break damage cap garbage and it still would have been a top tier SB on a top tier character, but instead they just blew the game balance apart to get people to whale.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken :ssh:

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Zurai posted:

It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken :ssh:

Oh, it would definitely still be insane if they took that part off; Crit = 100% would be enough to make it super top class as it is. The damage cap break is just what lets it trivialize stuff like torments with little effort, because you can fairly trivially set up a lot of characters to do OSB levels of damage every single turn which no boss in the game is tuned to survive.

Kanos fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Aug 1, 2017

Neutral Zone Trap
Nov 6, 2011

It's in the garbage. Where it belongs.
Do you even need Cloud USB to dunk 220 JS with OSBs? She has 450 health, assuming you can buff your OSBs to do 50k three people with three casts kill her with nothing else used.

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Neutral Zone Trap posted:

Do you even need Cloud USB to dunk 220 JS with OSBs? She has 450 health, assuming you can buff your OSBs to do 50k three people with three casts kill her with nothing else used.

I'm mostly grousing about torments and how I feel silly if I spend 10 minutes fighting Geosgaeno fairly with a normal party as opposed to blowing him up in 30 seconds with Cloud USB RW. Normal JS are pretty easy for any account that can clear events reliably, USB or no.

Neutral Zone Trap
Nov 6, 2011

It's in the garbage. Where it belongs.
I would probably feel more like you do if the Bahamut 300 hadn't been such a kick in the balls. Boss heals for 9k after you attack, kind of cuts you out off a lot of fair game options. I know I had none left.

gently caress your torments DeNa. Why don't you collect your titan shreds off the floor once my Cloud USB powered BSB entries have ripped the trio to pieces.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Zurai posted:

It's actually not the break damage cap part of Cloud USB that's broken :ssh:

Yeah, they could "fix" Cloud USB compared to its contemporaries in one of two utterly apocalyptic ways: either make bosses immune to critical hits OR somehow softcap passive damage boosts. Being able to break the damage cap, alone, isn't what makes Cloud USB absurd. Most moves are such low potency that even if you clear five digits per hit, you're not at all going to clear 20k on most multi-hit moves unassisted.

Let's mathcraft a common feeder move - Cloud Cycle's CMD1, Sonic Rush. We'll assume it's hitting its max Omega Drive styled threshold at >977ish ATK, for the sake of the argument. On its own, that's four 0.65x hits - a total of 2.6x, But wait, you might say, that's barely stronger than Tornado Strike, and pales in comparison to Twinstrikes already!

That's when you get into the "fun" parts - namely, stacking multipliers. Assume that it's a neutral boss with full imperils (fully weak bosses are hardly extant any more, at least in content where it makes a difference, and if you're hitting a slightly weak boss with imperils then you don't really "need" Cloud USB to chump them).
  • Cloud BSB2 has native Enwind. That's 1.5x damage. (if you're dropping a SB with that, it's 1.8x)
  • Naturally you'd want +wind gear on Cloud's armor and weapon slots, too. That's another 1.2x per slot.
  • Let's slap on Bartz's Lv99 RM on top of that for good measure, which gives a damage boost to wind attacks. That's another 1.3x bump.
  • Elemental boosts stack additively, so the math just for how windy we are is easy enough - 50% + 20% + 20% + 30% leads us to a 120% boost in damage - just from wind boosting alone that's 2.2x.

...we're not done. As far as I know, everything from here on out stacks multiplicatively, as they're disparate effects (and thus, are calculated separately)
  • We already said we're assuming full imperils on an otherwise neutral target. That's 1.6x damage.
  • But wait! Cloud USB gives you a passive 30% damage increase on all physical moves. (Most EX modes give an ATK buff, instead, which readily strains against the softcap.) That's a 1.3x bump.
  • It also gives an auto-crit effect, or critfixes Cloud to 100% critical rate. That would be 1.5x again, except...
  • You brought along your good friend Ramza to Chant, didn't you? That 1.5x becomes 2.0x.
  • Oh, and Zack's also here contributing a Wind Chain. Let's assume for simplicity you only have the hits from the BSB entry and USB on this tally, and that magically the multiplier doesn't increase with each respective hit of the attack - so 12 hits gives us a 1.12x chain.

So. Looking at our final multipliers, we're looking at...

2.2*1.6*1.3*2.0*1.12=10.25x power per hit. Suddenly, those 0.65x damage Sonic Rush hits are doing 6.6x damage - each one is as strong as an early-run AoE SSB. You get four of them. The move, in total, has a total power of 26.65x in this scenario - about as powerful as his normal OSB against a neutral enemy with that equipment loadout. Except it's at normal cast time, for as many attacks as you can cram into those 15s of the EX mode, and its effective damage cap is four times higher.

tl;dr: The removal of the damage cap alone wouldn't break Cloud USB, but on top of everything else, it certainly does uncork the explosive volcanic steam vent of bullshit all the multipliers make it into.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Aug 1, 2017

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

KataraniSword posted:

tl;dr: The removal of the damage cap alone wouldn't break Cloud USB, but on top of everything else, it certainly does uncork the explosive volcanic steam vent of bullshit all the multipliers make it into.

Yeah, and if you left everything on Cloud USB alone but removed the damage cap break it would turn Cloud(or anyone using the RW) into a fountain of reliable 9999s which is insanely strong but not "I just one rounded D300 Bahamut".

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
It's not really fair to use Ramza and Zack in those calculations though - many people don't have those. And you definitely don't need either to pull off crazy things with Cloud. But Cloud USB just gives people the power to smash through the limits the game gives them, all the things like multipler stacking were already in play. The auto-crit and 30% boost went a bit too far, but them's the breaks.

There's a reason it has only been re-relased on regular banners once - and that was on a fest banner, no less. It's also the same reason they've toned down BSBs after Squall's BSB2 (note how Balthier and Thancred's BSB2s, released after, were a lot tamer in comparison despite having a similar mechanic). They can't nerf things, so this is the best they can do.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

ApplesandOranges posted:

It's not really fair to use Ramza and Zack in those calculations though - many people don't have those.

At the same time, I strongly suspect that the trifecta is why not a single Multiplayer boss is weak to wind from here on out and most are explicitly omniresist.

EDIT:

Kanos posted:

Yeah, and if you left everything on Cloud USB alone but removed the damage cap break it would turn Cloud(or anyone using the RW) into a fountain of reliable 9999s which is insanely strong but not "I just one rounded D300 Bahamut".

You'd also break a number of Japan's gacha laws if not America's advertising laws. It was rolled out, now they have to live with the big poo poo they took in the middle of the room, same way they had to live with Wall breaking things sideways. Far easier to change the mechanics people can't see than remove what was explicitly lauded.

KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Aug 1, 2017

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
Wind has never been that popular of a weakness. III has the most famous ones with Bahamut and Garuda, and I can't really think of many others - Hashmal in XII, maybe. So I don't really think that it's that surprising, Ice/Fire/Lightning/Holy have always been the 'go-to' weakness points.

I feel kind of bad for Dark if anything. Poor Zeid in the next event, his sole real 'difficult' content (Torment Dark Seeker) is resistant to his own primary element.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

Take away the +95% damage from Cloud USB (+160% with Chant or Zack) and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The break damage cap isn't the powerful part, it's the 100% stacking damage-doubling-and-more effect that should have been tuned down pre-release. If Cloud USB was "five wind/dark hits, self +30% Attack/Defense, EX Mode: Soldier (Quick Cast 1 after using Combat abilities, can break damage cap with physical attacks) for 15 seconds" it'd be decent but nowhere close to sniffing overpowered and it would be a lot more like other EX Modes.

Zurai fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Aug 1, 2017

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

ApplesandOranges posted:

I feel kind of bad for Dark if anything. Poor Zeid in the next event, his sole real 'difficult' content (Torment Dark Seeker) is resistant to his own primary element.

At least Dark will always have its niche of obliterating exactly 50% of all given Dissidia events.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

KataraniSword posted:

You'd also break a number of Japan's gacha laws. It was rolled out, now they have to live with the big poo poo they took in the middle of the room, same way they had to live with Wall breaking things sideways. Far easier to change the mechanics people can't see than remove what was explicitly lauded.

This is not true. It wouldn't break Japan's gacha laws because the only law Japan has regarding gachas is to ban compugachas ie complete gachas, where you have to draw multiple different items of a set in order to get full effect from any one item.

KataraniSword
Apr 22, 2008

but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Zurai posted:

This is not true. It wouldn't break Japan's gacha laws because the only law Japan has against gachas is to ban compugachas ie complete gachas, where you have to draw multiple different items of a set in order to get full effect from any one item.

I admit I'm no expert, little more than a parrot. All I know is that if they change something they already hosed up on release, something's gonna implode legally somewhere and we'd have a dead game on our hands. Where exactly it is, I couldn't tell you.

Zurai posted:

Take away the +95% damage from Cloud USB (+160% with Chant or Zack) and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The break damage cap isn't the powerful part, it's the 100% stacking damage-doubling-and-more effect that should have been tuned down pre-release. If Cloud USB was "five wind/dark hits, self +30% Attack/Defense, EX Mode: Soldier (Quick Cast 1 after using Combat abilities, can break damage cap with physical attacks) for 15 seconds" it'd be decent but nowhere close to sniffing overpowered and it would like a lot more like other EX Modes.

On the other hand, this is spot-on. Imagine it like a car driving at 500 miles per hour. Removing the damage cap is like removing a wall it would have crashed immediately into right out of the gate, which makes things far worse, but the core problem is why is the car moving that goddamn fast to begin with.

AnotherGamer
Jan 12, 2007
Please change my name to "The Guff Machine"

KataraniSword posted:

Oh, and Zack's also here contributing a Wind Chain. Let's assume for simplicity you only have the hits from the BSB entry and USB on this tally, and that magically the multiplier doesn't increase with each respective hit of the attack - so 12 hits gives us a 1.12x chain.

All element chains also give you a 20% damage boost to the element in question, so it'd be 1.32x or so at this point.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

KataraniSword posted:

At least Dark will always have its niche of obliterating exactly 50% of all given Dissidia events.

It also 'suffers' from having Raines obsoleting any other users of the element other than maybe Kuja and Sephiroth. I'm not sure how well Gabranth does with his USB, but I think you need either his BSB or to dump Dark Orbs into the 5* Darkness physical skills that nobody else really uses.

Neutral Zone Trap
Nov 6, 2011

It's in the garbage. Where it belongs.
Cleared the 3CM with these guys:

https://www.ffrkcentral.com/profile/mB5d

As opposed to X I actually had decent physical dudes for this realm so could keep using Cloud USB even for the CM.

Big fan of Dwindling Spirit. It was free, it does at least three hits and with endark hits for a good amount of damage. I also had Sephiroth use it for the VII CM vs Jenova. Sephiroth was my only real damage source on that fight with Transcience.

Probably not worth the four use hone but a good role player here and there.

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.
I wonder if I could do the CM based solely around Tifa BSB + Cloud USB RW shennanigans, while hauling three FF2 idiots to the fight with old SSB's.

Or maybe I should just wait and see if I ever get FF2 goodies.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost
How are people beating the Edea JS? Just ignoring sleepga and dispel and whatever and just going in with Cloud USB and imperils?

I'm having a tough time here with only a couple sleep resist accessories. I might throw in a medica. I dunno.

Any advice is welcome.

Neutral Zone Trap
Nov 6, 2011

It's in the garbage. Where it belongs.
The sleep only hits the front row so if you can bring more back row folk that helps. Or have your physical dudes use a gun or something. Also you can just punch your guys back awake.

Affliction Break can help if you've got it, Mind Breakdown too.

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.

Elephant Ambush posted:

How are people beating the Edea JS? Just ignoring sleepga and dispel and whatever and just going in with Cloud USB and imperils?

I'm having a tough time here with only a couple sleep resist accessories. I might throw in a medica. I dunno.

Any advice is welcome.

Sleepga only hits units in the front row. If your entire team is back row (so either they're mages or back row attackers), that attack is harmless.

Elephant Ambush
Nov 13, 2012

...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?
Nap Ghost
If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB.

Is there anything similar for mage teams? Are mage teams the way to go in this fight?

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

If you just need one good Sleep-resist accessory, the Brawler's Bandana from the Nightmare dungeons should work. It's major resist and 20 Attack.

rujasu
Dec 19, 2013

ceaselessfuture posted:

Am on Android and I will try this out right away!

E: same error every time. My connection remains constant so if it is me, I have no idea. Maybe I should just get an emulator?



Also, try rebooting your phone if you haven't already.

iPodschun
Dec 29, 2004

Sherlock House

Elephant Ambush posted:

Are mage teams the way to go in this fight?
People have done it with physical teams just fine. But as Apples mentioned, Sleepga is harmless to an all-back row team. Edea still wastes a turn trying to cast it which is handy for giving you more time to reapply buffs. I just did it with Vanille USB to use after each Dispel (... just realized RIkku USB would have been a better choice but I guess the HP stock was nice):


I typically just use my A+ team for the Jump Start too but I guess I'll try some silly Cloud USB team for it this time

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Attestant posted:

Since nobody replied anything, quick comments on all the Thief, Sharpshooter and Ninja skills currently in global.

Thanks a lot for this, was exactly what I was looking for (actually, more than I was looking for). Figured since I've had to move more and more away from my main teams, it's probably also good to look at the different skills that I've not really branched into.

Arbitrary Number
Nov 10, 2012

KataraniSword posted:

Yeah, they could "fix" Cloud USB compared to its contemporaries in one of two utterly apocalyptic ways: either make bosses immune to critical hits OR somehow softcap passive damage boosts. Being able to break the damage cap, alone, isn't what makes Cloud USB absurd. Most moves are such low potency that even if you clear five digits per hit, you're not at all going to clear 20k on most multi-hit moves unassisted.

Let's mathcraft a common feeder move - Cloud Cycle's CMD1, Sonic Rush. We'll assume it's hitting its max Omega Drive styled threshold at >977ish ATK, for the sake of the argument. On its own, that's four 0.65x hits - a total of 2.6x, But wait, you might say, that's barely stronger than Tornado Strike, and pales in comparison to Twinstrikes already!

That's when you get into the "fun" parts - namely, stacking multipliers. Assume that it's a neutral boss with full imperils (fully weak bosses are hardly extant any more, at least in content where it makes a difference, and if you're hitting a slightly weak boss with imperils then you don't really "need" Cloud USB to chump them).
  • Cloud BSB2 has native Enwind. That's 1.5x damage. (if you're dropping a SB with that, it's 1.8x)
  • Naturally you'd want +wind gear on Cloud's armor and weapon slots, too. That's another 1.2x per slot.
  • Let's slap on Bartz's Lv99 RM on top of that for good measure, which gives a damage boost to wind attacks. That's another 1.3x bump.
  • Elemental boosts stack additively, so the math just for how windy we are is easy enough - 50% + 20% + 20% + 30% leads us to a 120% boost in damage - just from wind boosting alone that's 2.2x.

Element boosting record materia actually count as elemental: self so they stack multiplicatively with gear+enwind. Elemental boosts from record dives and legend dives are also elemental: self. (from the pdf). So it's 2.47x, a decent chunk better.

So depending on if a character's dive/LM boosts PHY/BLK or an element, there might be some tiny difference between the 1.3x PHY/BLK damage RM and the 1.3x element RM.

AstraSage
May 13, 2013

Elephant Ambush posted:

If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB.

Is there anything similar for mage teams? Are mage teams the way to go in this fight?

Given my A-Teams are Magic-based in the first place, I can say it's easier...

Edea and Fujin with their Bursts cheapened the fight even if the former relied on Two sources of Faithga (Yuna's Tenets and RW!Rikku) and my Hones of Chain Thunda/Firaga until JS!Edea was weak to Ice and the Latter was helped by the Back-row Support Squad (Dart!Setzer's PBD + DBD + MgFl + Cmd1 and Gun!Tyro's Wall + FB + MgBD).

THE AWESOME GHOST
Oct 21, 2005

Elephant Ambush posted:

If my entire team is back row then I'm unable to abuse Cloud USB.

Is there anything similar for mage teams? Are mage teams the way to go in this fight?

A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think!

Arbitrary Number posted:

Element boosting record materia actually count as elemental: self so they stack multiplicatively with gear+enwind. Elemental boosts from record dives and legend dives are also elemental: self. (from the pdf). So it's 2.47x, a decent chunk better.

So depending on if a character's dive/LM boosts PHY/BLK or an element, there might be some tiny difference between the 1.3x PHY/BLK damage RM and the 1.3x element RM.

Does that mean I should be giving Tidus his + water RM and not a + sword RM?

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think!


Does that mean I should be giving Tidus his + water RM and not a + sword RM?

Assuming you are making attack cap, yes.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

I have edge bsb so I egged him to 80 so I could fight geosgano

rw kimihari bsb figuring "sure, it's water, that'll work!"

NOPE

said gently caress it and brought my A-team holy party and rw WoL chain.

Here is a real image of what then happened to Geosgano:

Arbitrary Number
Nov 10, 2012

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

A lot of SBs and skills are ranged, more than you'd think!


Does that mean I should be giving Tidus his + water RM and not a + sword RM?

His dives give him +12% water damage in total and his LM1 gives him +10% water, for 22%.

If you use the +water RM, then you add them and get 52% or 1.52x
If you use the +sword RM, then you multiply 1.22 with 1.3 and get 1.586x

So it's better to use +sword, but it really is a tiny difference. If you do 10k damage with the +water RM, you'll only do about 400 more with +water.

Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
Which do you want to hear first...?
I had never considered taking a bunch of OSBs to a JS fight before. Went to Edea with 3 mage OSBs and a BSB, stacked up a bunch of magic buffs and atomized her. It was a good feeling.

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Arbitrary Number
Nov 10, 2012

Arbitrary Number posted:

His dives give him +12% water damage in total and his LM1 gives him +10% water, for 22%.

If you use the +water RM, then you add them and get 52% or 1.52x
If you use the +sword RM, then you multiply 1.22 with 1.3 and get 1.586x

So it's better to use +sword, but it really is a tiny difference. If you do 10k damage with the +water RM, you'll only do about 400 more with +water.

Wait now that I check the damage jump is about the same as going from a 1.25x RM to a 1.3x RM. So maybe it matters?

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