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Most of nethacks more hosed up gotchas are actually explained ingame by fortune cookies and the oracle so it being possible but taking forever wouldn't surprise me. I was actually trying to do nethack spoiler free before I realized it wasn't a very fun game to play and gave up.
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Jul 30, 2017 09:38
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PMush Perfect posted:Years ago, someone showed up in the Nethack Usenet newsgroup claiming to have beaten Nethack without any spoilers whatsoever. If their claim is to be believed, it took them ten years to get an ascension. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/wci4E96iKc4/FOJScF7qaHUJ I don't know if this is the same one - here they claim "Beating Nethack completely from scratch took roughly 1700 games, played over a period of four years and three months. This figure includes roughly 200 savescums (in explore mode once I figured out how) and 170 wizard mode games, mostly short."
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Jul 30, 2017 10:16
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And I think that just settled why nobody should pick up nethack anymore. On a similar note, earlier in this thread I asked a better player how, in POWDER, he handled cockatrices. The answer? Acid spells&items, of course. Everyone knows acid stops petrification!
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Jul 30, 2017 10:33
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What little fun there is to be had in Nethack that you can't get from something like Crawl 0.14 or Brogue kind of dried out when they removed Elbereth.
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Jul 30, 2017 11:02
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TOOT BOOT posted:It seems like back in the day you were expected to go into complex roguelikes completely blind which seems absurd. The expectation for Nethack specifically was that you'd figure out how it works not just from the in-game oracle, but from Explore Mode (starts you with a wand of wishing and lets you respawn after death). Once you think you have a handle on things, you start playing permadeath games and seeing if you can get on the high score list. There was, AFAIK, no expectation that new players would immediately start smashing their faces into permadeath mode. Reading the spoilers is also a totally valid way to play (and what I did), but it's not like the original devs intended people to spend five years and thousands of games learning how to play, any more than the DoomRL developer expects people to immediately start playing on Ultraviolence.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:27
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My favorite weird nonsense nethack esque tons of reactions and mechanics roguelike is elona+, which isnt without its own sins.
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Jul 30, 2017 22:10
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Elona+ is really fun to pick up every few months, but I've never gotten to the endgame (or what passes for it). Maybe I'll make a proper go at it this time. Also speaking of terrible online communities, I joined that roguelike discord people keep recommending and the entire day's conversation has been about how women are ruining roguelikes with their casual games and how things went wrong when they were given the vote. Top stuff.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:15
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Inadequately posted:Also speaking of terrible online communities, I joined that roguelike discord people keep recommending and the entire day's conversation has been about how women are ruining roguelikes with their casual games and how things went wrong when they were given the vote. Top stuff. Apparently the mods are already on it. Usually the discord is very useful.
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Jul 30, 2017 23:20
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Inadequately posted:Also speaking of terrible online communities, I joined that roguelike discord people keep recommending and the entire day's conversation has been about how women are ruining roguelikes with their casual games and how things went wrong when they were given the vote. Top stuff. 
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Jul 30, 2017 23:58
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Jul 31, 2017 00:02
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Inadequately posted:Also speaking of terrible online communities, I joined that roguelike discord people keep recommending and the entire day's conversation has been about how women are ruining roguelikes with their casual games and how things went wrong when they were given the vote. Top stuff. It wasn't like that when I went in there.  Also gently caress 'em, casual games are great. e: And I mean, even casual roguelikes are great? Golden Krone Hotel, Sproggiwood, DoomRL - these coffeebreak roguelikes are legitimately incredible and great for short sessions.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:30
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ripping on the flood of bad not-roguelikes that spring up on Steam like mushrooms after rainfall is good, blaming it on women is not
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Jul 31, 2017 00:31
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Inadequately posted:Elona+ is really fun to pick up every few months, but I've never gotten to the endgame (or what passes for it). Maybe I'll make a proper go at it this time. 
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Jul 31, 2017 00:33
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That's the end game boss: the trolls
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Jul 31, 2017 00:56
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I've been enjoying Monolith, so thanks to whoever recommended it here. It's pretty short and light on content, though, from what I can tell. 5 standard floors, unlock four seals to get to the sixth floor, beat the bonus boss, done. To give you some sense of one run's playtime, the speedrun cheevo has you beating the first 5 floors in 20 minutes -- which I did while still exploring most of each floor. That said, I did all this on Normal, and there's a Hard difficulty which amps up the enemies and adds a few additional bosses. The game also talks about there being another protagonist-equivalent wandering around in there somewhere; I haven't run into them yet outside of the fight in the tutorial. But judging from the bestiary, I've found >95% of the enemies in the game. Still, it feels like most of the longevity is in unlocking different upgrades -- in this game, you first unlock things through gameplay, then you buy them from a between-runs shopkeeper, using your score as currency. But the items in the stores are all pretty expensive; even a winning run isn't sufficient to be able to afford unlocking a single new weapon, and there's something like a dozen of those. So you have to string together at least two runs to be able to buy anything really consequential.
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Jul 31, 2017 01:10
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Lowness 72 posted:That's the end game boss: the trolls 
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Jul 31, 2017 03:06
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DACK FAYDEN posted:I haven't been able to figure out how to turn permadeath on for them yet It's already on, but there's both serious damage isolation and an extensive (and not necessarily lethal) global revenge system in place. Mostly built in-game from more basic systems too; kind of impressive.
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Jul 31, 2017 04:30
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Inadequately posted:Elona+ is really fun to pick up every few months, but I've never gotten to the endgame (or what passes for it). Maybe I'll make a proper go at it this time. The Elona+ endgame is freakin' massive, what the heck. It also takes forever (to get there and do) but Elona has the right mix of mechanics complexity, weird flavor and activity variety that I enjoy just grinding away at it in binge bursts.
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Jul 31, 2017 08:54
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Played a lot of Tangledeep today, ran into some bugs that my buddy posted, got fixed in 3 hours. Good job Tangledeep dude!
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Aug 1, 2017 00:46
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DisDisDis posted:The Elona+ endgame is freakin' massive, what the heck. It also takes forever (to get there and do) but Elona has the right mix of mechanics complexity, weird flavor and activity variety that I enjoy just grinding away at it in binge bursts. Yeah, this is my take on Elona as well. I'll play for a burst and do all sorts of stupid crazy stuff, but then the grind gets to me, and so I'll forget it for a while.
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Aug 1, 2017 02:04
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https://twitter.com/unormal/status/892190783473897472 https://twitter.com/ptychomancer/status/892191464729460736
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Aug 1, 2017 02:13
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StrixNebulosa posted:https://twitter.com/unormal/status/892190783473897472 unrelated: dmans is on sale this week
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Aug 1, 2017 09:01
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StrixNebulosa posted:Invisible Inc - one of my favorite games, period. I'd easily say it's the best game on this list, in my personal list of faves. It's a game where you lead a team of special agents through a series of shadowrun-esque hits on corps. Steal their credits, tech, KO their guards, and get out via teleporter before their security catches you. There's a plot, but it's short - every run is over in 72 hours with a final mission that you can prep for. (It's kind of FTL-esque but it's nowhere near as ball-breaking, and so it's actually fun!) Now, I'm going to open up a minefield: everything in the game is procedurally generated, but wait, it's actually good. You're there to learn the patterns of every guard and robot, so you can figure out how to thread the needle. Thanks to a lengthy EA period where they got the game balanced, it creates a fantastically tense puzzlebox that's endlessly replayable. Just wanna say that even though I'm the one who brought up Invisible Inc. in the first place, your writeup was so hype it inspired me to go back and finally clear on Expert Plus / Extended. On my first attempt I wiped at the first story mission, although it was also because I was being cheeky and trying to get the Faust/Brimstone achievement at the same time. I took the second attempt more seriously and went Internationale/Nika, Dynamo/Mercenary. I think Internationale is probably the best character (especially on Expert Plus), because on Expert Plus you need to peek doors before AND after opening to be truly spared from cameras - but the Wireless Emitter often gives you a no-camera guarantee. Nika is just great whenever you expect to have a lot of PWR because her Volt Disrupter can carry you through the first couple of days. I found Draco right away and so I got a Flurry Gun for Nika and that one augment that substitutes 3 PWR for heart tracker on kills. I had a couple of missions where I would, in one turn, spend 14 PWR to have Nika kill 2 people without raising alarm, then have Draco vampire the bodies. He ended fully statted out. I actually thought I had lost on the very final mission because I didn't realize one 4 armor guard would be able to hear an EMP, and he had LOS on a pair of agents who only had 3 piercing at range. They both died, but I figured I'd play it through since I brought 2 med gels and I managed to stabilize the situation by taking my one armor piercing 4 ranged weapon and juggling it between two agents until I could get my downed ones revived. I would have lost had I not encumbered my agents with spare med gels and charge packs to give to Central and Monst3r. I think at this point I'm gonna go for every achievement, because surprised face is probably the hardest and all the others seem within reach now. So thanks for giving me my momentum back!
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Aug 1, 2017 10:19
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hito posted:Just wanna say that even though I'm the one who brought up Invisible Inc. in the first place, your writeup was so hype it inspired me to go back and finally clear on Expert Plus / Extended. On my first attempt I wiped at the first story mission, although it was also because I was being cheeky and trying to get the Faust/Brimstone achievement at the same time. I took the second attempt more seriously and went Internationale/Nika, Dynamo/Mercenary. I think Internationale is probably the best character (especially on Expert Plus), because on Expert Plus you need to peek doors before AND after opening to be truly spared from cameras - but the Wireless Emitter often gives you a no-camera guarantee. Nika is just great whenever you expect to have a lot of PWR because her Volt Disrupter can carry you through the first couple of days. I found Draco right away and so I got a Flurry Gun for Nika and that one augment that substitutes 3 PWR for heart tracker on kills. I had a couple of missions where I would, in one turn, spend 14 PWR to have Nika kill 2 people without raising alarm, then have Draco vampire the bodies. He ended fully statted out.  Congratulations!It's been a few months since I last played (using the time to regain my own momentum and to forget all of the guard soundclips!) but I remember getting addicted to the agent with the invisibility cloak that ran on power paired with the agent who generated power whenever the alarm level went up, so... it was basically free invisibility all the time, which helped destroyed any difficulty on the mode I was on.  I have 17/23 cheevos on my end - it's one of the few games where I'm determined to get them all, haha. But I don't have surprised face yet. Yet. 
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Aug 1, 2017 10:27
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Let's both shoot for that 23/23! Actually I'll try to record one of my runs - Never Look Back, probably, since it'll create more desperate rescue situations. I owe you some momentum back so hopefully I can get some interesting moments in a LP 
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Aug 1, 2017 11:29
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I guess COE4 just patched and now it's more roguelike than ever.quote:This update brings a few new magic items and makes the start a little easier for the Markgraf that now gets a small graveyard near his home. Certain exceptional event like hordes of inferno controlled demon being in Elysium, can now postpone a player victory until it has been dealt with. Also a bunch of bug fixes and modding improvements.
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Aug 1, 2017 19:27
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Oh good, the worst event in the game is now even worse. Nice to hear that the Markgraf was shown a little mercy though. He's always seemed badly underpowered to me.
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Aug 1, 2017 23:37
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Pacra posted:Full fledged Incursion guide - Hey maybe my browser's just on the fritz but I started playing Incursion again today and this guide now cuts off in the middle of the description of Immotian. Like the game a lot and the build info here's pretty vital. e: If I load the cached version it's all there though DisDisDis fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 10:01
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I'm having an awful first floor/level as a human druid, splitting the middle between poo poo xp enemies and things that I can't seem to kill/almost kill me, but it's really revealing why it's captured my attention so strongly. It feels so much more alive than say Qud (another game with npcs with varying hostility to you and other npc types) because a) npcs (at least in the first few floors that I've reached) break off chase relatively easily and prioritize self preservation over killing the player at all cost, and will actually flee combat b) npcs are active all the time instead of just upon seeing you unless they are actually asleep, which is a thing (living) things in this game do, and levels are both bigger and more spread out giving plenty of room for fights to happen without player involvement (point a applies to npc on npc too which keeps the whole level from murdering itself before you get to it) and c) npcs will actually attack each other in front of you unlike in Qud where mutually hostile enemies will relax right next to each other until you show up and then immediately forget their differences to come murder you. ex: My starting room gens with an east and south door, after collecting my healing and dimension door pots I fail to pick the east door, go through the south. I pass through a room of neutral eagles which I decide to leave alone because there are a bunch and I bet an eagle would kill me in melee, irl. One eagle follows me into a room where two shadow oozes pop up, one attacks the eagle so I figure I'll last hit it after blasting the other with conjure flame. That proves ineffective and the eagle dies in two turns leaving the second ooze blocking my exit so I dimension door out. I head back and kite one shadow ooze into the long corridor south of the starting room, repeated flame blasts don't do anything and neither do arrows so low on mana and HP I go up the stairs to rest at the Inn. Coming back down I think better of attacking a group of neutral C's patrolling by and successfully pick the eastern door. After exploring the rooms branching off there for a while I come back to the south corridor and find the corpses of all the C's and no sign of the shadow ooze. Later I'll realize a brown Z isn't a basic zombie but a zombie riding dog when I can't kill or easily run from it, try to engage a wounded zombie pony at the same time and get down to 1 hp getting hit fleeing melee range. I dimension door when an arrow misses me from outside my vision, but it rolls low and I end up near the rainbow sprite that fired it. Thinking I'm dead I DD again, but it's actually attacking the zombies and I manage to hide in a corner and heal up. Heading back up I find a rainbow sprite corpse and manage to avoid re aggroing the zombies. Cool as heck!!! PotatoManJack posted:Yeah, this is my take on Elona as well. I'll play for a burst and do all sorts of stupid crazy stuff, but then the grind gets to me, and so I'll forget it for a while. Well, my binges tend to be pretty long. I dunno I think every change from vanilla and in the more recent patches to reduce grind is for the better the grind is still an essential part of the game design for me. I don't get in for loot arpgs or other grindy jrpgs much but making numbers up through repetitive actions in Elona is just really fun to me. I think it's how varied and weird the optimal/important activities and components are, there being a large number of important non combat tasks to do, and combat grinding being about balancing the knifes edge of highest dungeon level (for the best rewards) vs quick completion and low chance of death. And then when you find that sweet spot it can end up being really easy with mostly snails or something, or the boss can end up the wrong turboleveled enemy type and you have to make the call to bail out. The optimal difficulty being not too hard is fine for me because I play it to relax, but since better rewards lead to being able to do higher level content for even better rewards faster you're encouraged to push the envelope. The game gets so much better once you reach the second continent because the AP system actually incentivizes you to take on really hard enemies, as long as you think they won't one shot you. From the little bit I've played/know about *band games it seems like finding that optimal depth for high XP/loot reward vs. lethality ration is a big part of them, which makes me think I should try harder to get into them. Also makes me wish there was a proper permadeath roguelike where I could get super powerful by keeping a garden and running errands for people, then dive the main dungeon in an hour.
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Aug 2, 2017 12:41
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Thanks for that post, I was just deliberating on which game to try next and Incursion sounds great. Apparently it uses d&d mechanics so it should be easy for me to get into too.
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Aug 2, 2017 15:42
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Rolled up a mighty orc fighter and the first thing I see is a pile of treasure in deep water. With my strength I might be able to swim enough to grab it perhaps: no, that's the end of orc number one. I tried again and explored around a bit before finding a cold, icy room where I was beset by wolves. I was savaged while comically slipping over repeatedly, flailing with my sword and failing to stand before attempting to fight them while prone, orc two meets his end. I'm having a ball. The descriptions and details give this game a really tabletop kind of feel and it looks like there is real depth to the non-combat elements, but it doesn't feel daunting to get into compared to some older roguelikes. Also the ascii is gorgeous.
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Aug 2, 2017 17:23
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oblongus posted:Rolled up a mighty orc fighter and the first thing I see is a pile of treasure in deep water. With my strength I might be able to swim enough to grab it perhaps: no, that's the end of orc number one. I tried again and explored around a bit before finding a cold, icy room where I was beset by wolves. I was savaged while comically slipping over repeatedly, flailing with my sword and failing to stand before attempting to fight them while prone, orc two meets his end. I'm having a ball. Wow this does sound awesome. I'll have to see about getting it running in a Wineskin.
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Aug 2, 2017 17:40
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What's the likelihood of Dungeon Crawl ever being playable on iOS? I did some googling and there was alot of chatter in February and March 2016 that iOS DCSS was close to being a reality and then things got quiet after that.
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Aug 2, 2017 17:41
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Incursion is almost comedically difficult in some ways - it's deliberately designed in mind of the gleefully adversarial dungeon crawls published for third edition Dungeons & Dragons groups, so it's highly prone to Nethacky "gotcha" deaths - but it is an impressively detailed and nuanced game. It kind of reminds me of a less overtly malicious IVAN in some ways - it at least gives you the tools to potentially mitigate the most bullshit deaths, but it's still a lunatic assemblage of moving parts that culminates in some seriously crazy as hell behaviour, like playing as a druid with riding skills, taming a bear, turning into a bear, and shrinking yourself with a magic item so you can ride your regular sized bear and hit enemies with twice as much bear. You can also prestige class into shadowdancer and gouge climb until you can essentially permanently be walking around on the ceiling, iirc. The only problem is that eventually you'll flub a fortitude save against a gaze attack or something and immediately die because you had never seen that particular attack before and didn't know to specifically prepare a contingency for that exact instadeath scenario. Even the bugs are crazy as all hell in Incursion. I had a lizardfolk fighter who found a suit of full plate that let her turn ethereal and swordfight ghosts, which was awesome until she somehow ate her entire suit of enchanted steel armour off of her own body while she was ethereal, which confused the game so much that she was just sort of permanently naked and ethereal and eventually starved to death because she couldn't touch any food to eat it. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 18:44
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Angry Diplomat posted:Incursion is almost comedically difficult in some ways - it's deliberately designed in mind of the gleefully adversarial dungeon crawls published for third edition Dungeons & Dragons groups, so it's highly prone to Nethacky "gotcha" deaths - but it is an impressively detailed and nuanced game. Working as intended.
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Aug 2, 2017 18:57
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Angry Diplomat posted:Oh good, the worst event in the game is now even worse. Counterpoint: this means that the real endgame is leaving the portal open and invading hell, which you can now do without the bystander mod. 
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Aug 2, 2017 19:03
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Counterpoint: this means that the real endgame is leaving the portal open and invading hell, which you can now do without the bystander mod. Oh gently caress, I didn't even think of that. Wipe out all the other factions with impunity, hold the other end of the portal until you've burned down the last of the ancient forests, and then set your greedy eyes on the capital of Inferno.
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Aug 2, 2017 19:35
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So I've been playing Curious Expedition again lately, and getting slightly better at it so now I mostly just die on expedition 5, once with the pyramid in sight while beating Huang Feihong by like two points.  Does anyone have a good strategy for getting through 5? It's such a huge region and your crew's first impulse when out of sanity seems to be to eat each other so you get overburdened. If you leave items in storage at a mission, do you get them back/get rewarded for them if you find the pyramid? If you are overburdened can you just not use inventory items like guns and spears? I wish it were easier to unlock new characters but I'll keep plugging away at it. Last time I almost had a pet raptor friend, it was still a baby when I died alone in the jungles.
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Aug 2, 2017 20:18
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Pacra posted:Full fledged Incursion guide - DisDisDis posted:Hey maybe my browser's just on the fritz but I started playing Incursion again today and this guide now cuts off in the middle of the description of Immotian.
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Aug 2, 2017 22:48
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occamsnailfile posted:If you leave items in storage at a mission, do you get them back/get rewarded for them if you find the pyramid? Yes, If you bank treasure at the boat or certain types of settlements you'll be able to take more home and can afford more resources on subsequent expeditions.
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Aug 2, 2017 23:01
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