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That's a good catch! I've never seen that kit in person. The parts appear in a different build on page 193.
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Jul 30, 2017 13:24
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Galaspar posted:Have you guys seen this? Apparently from the latest White Dwarf: please dont gently caress it up please dont gently caress it up please dont gently caress it up
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Aug 3, 2017 03:14
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Does anyone think it's going to be anything different than the "same old Necromunda you know and love" but packaged stupidly and extensively like Blood Bowl was?
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Aug 3, 2017 05:30
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Atlas Hugged posted:Does anyone think it's going to be anything different than the "same old Necromunda you know and love" but packaged stupidly and extensively like Blood Bowl was? IDK man say what you will of the Blood Bowl re-release but I think its pretty snazzy and isn't packaged nearly as stupidly as 40k is. All they need to do is release a rules supplement for shadow war and then gang miniatures, hopefully that's the plan.
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Aug 3, 2017 05:36
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My issue with the Blood Bowl release was that the rules that had previously been in one book were suddenly scattered across 2 books and a pdf and I think weren't even totally complete.
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Aug 3, 2017 05:50
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Atlas Hugged posted:My issue with the Blood Bowl release was that the rules that had previously been in one book were suddenly scattered across 2 books and a pdf and I think weren't even totally complete. Yeah that was pretty lame, and that could end up being how necromunda works here (buy the rules and also buy the "campaign rules" !!) but again, I feel like 40k is so infinitely worse that by comparison what I expect out of GW they did a pretty good job of BB. Like they're actually selling individual kits of the starter teams, replacement figures, alternate sculpts, that's really fantastic support. I didn't see them doing those things. Took them a bit but there's some nice range of stuff available now, and more teams and pitches coming. With 40k now its buy the rules, buy the index for your army and buy the codex for your army, and then if you want to play multiple armies good luck! At least here you just get the 2 books and you're done. Yeah, there's more death zones coming I guess but they seem pretty optional at that point.
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Aug 3, 2017 05:54
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Ugh, you don't need to buy index if there's a codex out, and the rules are free to download on GW's site.
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Aug 3, 2017 12:33
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JcDent posted:Ugh, you don't need to buy index if there's a codex out, and the rules are free to download on GW's site. Not going to split hairs on if the rules are truly free or not. We'll agree that there's enough to resolve the actions of your models on the table. That aside there's only one Codex available right now so unless you just want to sit and not play for who knows how many months you basically have to buy an Index and if you want to play one of the Space Marine chapters not covered in the standard Codex Space Marines, you basically have to buy an Index. So ultimately people who are already interested in the game are going to end up buying two sets of rules for their army. If you happen to come in after the codex for your preferred army is released, then no you won't have to buy an Index. The big complaint here, and I think it's a valid one, is that GW is punishing its existing customers by expecting them to buy multiple sets of rules for the same army. Remember, when they released 3rd Edition and it invalidated all of the rules, all the factions that GW intended to keep supporting were included as free lists in the core book. So existing players could just pick up the core book and start playing immediately. They didn't have to buy the core book, a placeholder list, and then pay for their list a second time (yes some armies got revised codexes, but that's a separate topic). Sure, you didn't have specific chapters or legions in the free rules, but hey, at least they were free with the main rules of the game and you could start playing from day one. In fact, you never actually had to buy a codex if you never wanted to play competitively. You and your friends or gaming group could get by on just the one rule book. Given that the core rules are $60, an Index $25, and a Codex $50, that's a lot of money over the first year or two of the game for just rules.
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Aug 3, 2017 13:25
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dmnz posted:please dont gently caress it up please dont gently caress it up please dont gently caress it up It's probably just news about the NM video game that's coming out.
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Aug 3, 2017 13:52
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Yeah, I don't know what I was saying. They should have released indexes as free pdfs, which was basically the only good thing that happened during the AoS release. Of course, if you're a canny player, you can live with free rules and battlescribe lists (4chan still doesn't have a scan), but that doesn't help with the lovely book releases. And all the stuff that had to be FAQ'd. Christ, they should just go paper optional route, they should know they can't write rules. On a semi related matter, we started our AoS Hinterlands campaign. My Knight Questor took on a storm fiend, storm vermin fangleader and 3 plaguemonks with his 3+ rerollable save and eventually ground them down. Point is, after turn 3, the battle was absolutely static, and I think I'm noticing a pattern. Was it that bad in Mordheim, too?
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Aug 3, 2017 13:52
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JcDent posted:Yeah, I don't know what I was saying. They should have released indexes as free pdfs, which was basically the only good thing that happened during the AoS release. It's basically always been the case that once you got the right combination of items and skills you could make a couple of your units unbeatable, which meant that you would either completely dominate your enemy if they were lacking that kind of model of their own or it would be like you said. It was slightly better in Necromunda and Gorkamorka because of the big weapons and vehicles and explosions that could take even powerful units out and a lack of magic items, but yeah that happened a lot in Mordheim since it was more melee based.
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Aug 3, 2017 13:58
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JcDent posted:Ugh, you don't need to buy index if there's a codex out, and the rules are free to download on GW's site. This is actually wrong. There IS a need to buy index even if codex is out, the codex specifically does not cover all the units in the index, which is a massively lovely decision. The codex literally says "refer to index for rules on some other units" which is like, holy poo poo bad.
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Aug 3, 2017 13:59
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Zaphod42 posted:This is actually wrong. There IS a need to buy index even if codex is out, the codex specifically does not cover all the units in the index, which is a massively lovely decision. So at a minimum you have to spend $65 to get all the rules for your space mans and that's assuming you only buy the digital version of the codex.
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Aug 3, 2017 14:05
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Zaphod42 posted:This is actually wrong. There IS a need to buy index even if codex is out, the codex specifically does not cover all the units in the index, which is a massively lovely decision. Fukken really? gently caress that noise then.
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Aug 3, 2017 14:21
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Zaphod42 posted:The codex literally says "refer to index for rules on some other units" which is like, holy poo poo bad. Per GW: quote:You’ll want to keep hold of your index. Codex: Space Marines doesn’t include rules for playing with Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch or Grey Knights armies, so you’ll still need Index: Imperium 1 to play with those. You’ll also need it for using some of the more unusual models such as the 30th Anniversary Space Marine, the Legion of the Damned and the Terminus Ultra Land Raider. So, if you're playing with an army not covered by the codex, you'll need an Index (duh.) If you're playing with a particular special model, you might need the Index. Other than that, if you're playing any of the eight armies covered in the Codex, you do not need an Index. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 15:13
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It's for legacy models that are no longer in the line. I think one example is the Librarian or Chaplain on bike. I don't know, the alternative is just deleting units. Seems like an ok compromise.
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Aug 3, 2017 15:18
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If it's just legacy models that's not really a big deal.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:02
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Less 'legacy' models (though there are some of those like the las/plas razorback and power fists on ancients), more that it's the removal of wargear/weapon options that have been available in codices for decades but GW never got around to making models for, e.g. twin heavy bolter arms for dreads, characters on bikes, standard bearers with anything other than their default equipment, etc.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:21
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More than anything else, it fucks creative modelers who like to do custom conversions.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:23
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The worst thing is the loss of carapace vets 
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Aug 3, 2017 16:23
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Ilor posted:More than anything else, it fucks creative modelers who like to do custom conversions. If the Index was free I'd disagree. But since you have to pay $25 for the privilege of fielding non-GW approved models, that's pretty lame.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:26
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JcDent posted:The worst thing is the loss of ardboyz FTFY
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Aug 3, 2017 16:26
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It feels weird to come out batting for GW, but you have to squint pretty hard before "rules for discontinued / non-existent kits" starts to look like loving anyone over.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:29
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moths posted:It feels weird to come out batting for GW, but you have to squint pretty hard before "rules for discontinued / non-existent kits" starts to look like loving anyone over.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:38
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Ilor posted:More than anything else, it fucks creative modelers who like to do custom conversions. Yeah, that one guy is going to be pissed.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:39
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As I said before, they're still there - just tucked away in another book. Compared to the industry standard of "these are just gone now," that's pretty good.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:41
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moths posted:It feels weird to come out batting for GW, but you have to squint pretty hard before "rules for discontinued / non-existent kits" starts to look like loving anyone over. I wouldn't really go that far. It's only one component of the larger problem. If you're a Tau player, you have to buy the Index and who knows when you'll upgrade to a Codex. That people who bought limited edition models or did a custom model based on the rules that were available for the last decade or two suddenly can't field that unit without having the $25 Index to support it is kind of lame. But it might also be moot since if you are a veteran player, you probably bought the Index right away and so you have those rules already.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:41
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FW codixes include rules for all the 5 million Marine characters they had produced in their lifetime. It also includes the only Iron Hands, kinda, he's the Sons of Medusa chaptermaster. Space Marines might be the posterboys, but Iron Hands, White Scars, Salamanders get no love, even while being first founding. I would know, my snoflakes use IH chapter tactics. I just hope that Heralds of Ruin get their poo poo together soon, gotta play that skirmish.
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Aug 3, 2017 16:44
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Atlas Hugged posted:But it might also be moot since if you are a veteran player, you probably bought the Index right away and so you have those rules already. This is probably the situation for every veteran player who just didn't pirate the books, though If you did a conversion for a custom model for rules that were available 20 years ago, I feel for you (and have my own models in that vein), but I'm also not getting upset that GW isn't supporting my 20-year old Noise Marine terminator conversions that haven't had rules since 2002
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Aug 3, 2017 16:48
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Atlas Hugged posted:I wouldn't really go that far. It's only one component of the larger problem. If you're a Tau player, you have to buy the Index and who knows when you'll upgrade to a Codex. That people who bought limited edition models or did a custom model based on the rules that were available for the last decade or two suddenly can't field that unit without having the $25 Index to support it is kind of lame. But it might also be moot since if you are a veteran player, you probably bought the Index right away and so you have those rules already. Yeah, basically all the srs 40k players bought the indixes. I didn't because
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Aug 3, 2017 16:49
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TheChirurgeon posted:This is probably the situation for every veteran player who just didn't pirate the books, though And that's why it wasn't in my initial criticism of the Index/Codex thing. The Indexes should have just been free, but I also get why it's much harder to write unit rules and lists for 40k than it is for something like Kings of War. In that, a unit is just a statline with a couple of keywords. Very rarely does it have unique rules. But in 40k basically everything does, plus wargear options. And all of that requires descriptive text. So it isn't as easy as just doing one page per army and suddenly GW feels like it's a product worth paying for, even if it is temporary (I mean, assuming they get to every extant list before the inevitable 9th Edition drops in 2-3 years). But seriously I'll laugh pretty hard if a new edition comes out and some armies are still using Indexes. I guess then they'll have gotten their money's worth!
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Aug 3, 2017 16:53
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I was really excited to see lots of posts in the Specialist Games thread! Then I saw it was just screaming about current 40k. Boys, we have a whole thread for that.
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Aug 3, 2017 17:56
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I was really excited to see lots of posts in the Specialist Games thread! Then I saw it was just screaming about current 40k. 
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Aug 3, 2017 17:59
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I feel bad for participating in a derail, and offer these images to atone: 
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Aug 3, 2017 18:02
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Atlas Hugged posted:And that's why it wasn't in my initial criticism of the Index/Codex thing. The Indexes should have just been free, but I also get why it's much harder to write unit rules and lists for 40k than it is for something like Kings of War. Yeah fair enough. To be a bit pedantic, though--I think it's fine for GW to charge for their full-color printed books. What they should do is have free or cheap versions of the army rules available in digital format for those models that were already released. Then they can have their cake and eat it too. Lord_Hambrose posted:I was really excited to see lots of posts in the Specialist Games thread! Then I saw it was just screaming about current 40k. Technically we have three, I guess Getting back on topic, I don't *think* they need to do much more with new Necromunda than release a Shadow War supplement, though the downside to that is potentially having to figure out how to balance gangs with 40k kill teams, who should be just much, much stronger on the whole. I'd also be OK with a new Necromunda standalone that has its own box full of cheap Shadow War terrain--I love the poo poo out of those kits.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:06
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I really should do something with my Epic Eldar but man they're so tiny.
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Aug 3, 2017 18:13
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Just gimme skirmish games in 40k...
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Aug 3, 2017 18:52
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I'm kind of amazed that the Epic Eldar stayed tiny when everyone else got bigger in E40k:Armageddon. The only real change on the sprue was guardians going from lasguns to shuricats.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:01
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I really hope that the new Adeptus Titanicus game (or whatever they are calling Epic 3) is good. It is a little weird that it is just Titans and not just straight up Epic, but it is a step in the right direction. As a 30k guy I am fine with it being set in the Heresy, but they will really need to do a lot with Ad Mech and Imperial Army to get variety. Ultimately, Xenos rule.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:03
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I kind of see it falling into the trap where they will only release only space marines and Imperial titans to gauge its popularity, but it won't get popular because they've only released one faction and a palette-swap.
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Aug 3, 2017 19:22
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