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B Yeah I don't really see us coming back from that mess. The mad sultan and his loyalists have forever destroyed the dream of a united and powerful Al-Andalus. Come Vicky I doubt we'll even rate secondary power if this keeps up.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:05
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A, a military dictatorship is truly the way to go.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:08
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Yeah. We are a 17-th century nation on the brink of industrialization that just had a civil war between its legislature and its would-be absolute monarch. No one bounces back from that. Come on, people! We're Muslim Britain. We've got a real good shot.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:09
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We're not an island that can be easily defended by a humongous navy, which i think is a very important part of being Britain in the modern era.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:14
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Also, our very few colonies are utterly indefensible. How many times have they been occupied now?
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Aug 3, 2017 22:15
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Honestly people after all this is over we should ally the Celts. Bear with me here: - We really have almost nothing against them. Yes, they just took some land from us, but it was not really important land in the grand scheme of things. Let's just ackowledge it's theirs now. - They certainly have interests against our two main rivals: Against France, who holds land in their isles and challenges them in Colombia; and against Morocco, definitely, in Argentina. Let's be friends with them and build a great anti-french/morocco alliance. The only problem is if they view us as a rival at the moment, but V2 is coming anyway.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:20
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Alright, I did some soul searching and I'm a fickle bastard, but changing again to B. We need to start practicing some realpolitik, cause there's anti-steamroller games and then there's games where we just get straight up hosed. With that in mind I also advocate reaching out to the Celts or at the very least the Vakhtanis.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:27
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Updated tally: A - We Refuse Him - 7 - ThatBasqueGuy, Crazycryodude, Agean90, Raserys, Weebus, Mountaineer, Sinner Sandwich. B - We Accept Him - 17 - Talas, Lord Cyrahzax, TyrsHTML, devildragon777, RZApublican, Frionnel, Crazycryodude, unwantedplatypus, Yvonmukluk, Captain Oblivious, WilliamAnderson, GunnerJ, Mountaineer, Soup du Jour, Hitlers Gay Secret, Grizzwold, Erwin the German.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:29
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Erwin the German posted:Alright, I did some soul searching and I'm a fickle bastard, but changing again to B. We need to start practicing some realpolitik, cause there's anti-steamroller games and then there's games where we just get straight up hosed. The Vahktanis hate us and are going through their own deluge at the moment. Maybe Provence will take us back now that Utman is gone?
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Aug 3, 2017 22:29
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Aw jeez. While I get that this should be a huge crisis, I still feel like Hashim might have cranked up the intensity of those rebellions a bit much.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:30
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Yeah we're gonna be feeling the aftershocks of that well into the 1800's, unless the Celts, French, and Moroccans all have a similar calamity befall them. Which is very possible, the Age of Revolutions is yet to come, but we really got hosed.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:32
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:The Vahktanis hate us and are going through their own deluge at the moment. Maybe Provence will take us back now that Utman is gone? I'm thinking long term we'd probably benefit from cultivating an alliance with them - might help us project beyond our immediate reach when Vicky rolls around.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:33
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 Sup bros. You may not know me, but you know my dad, The Dalai Ullama. Well, it turns out he was burn at the stake by some Portuguese and is now a Llama Kebab (quite delicious by the way). I, The Son of the Dalai Ullama, am a bit more worldly, and unbeknownst to my father, a practicing Shi'ite. I say B. Lets bring ourselves together, form a love circle, and grow into better society for everyone.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:33
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Aug 3, 2017 22:36
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Wait, France owns Peru, so how are we supposed to trust any llama?
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Aug 3, 2017 22:38
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Crazycryodude posted:Yeah we're gonna be feeling the aftershocks of that well into the 1800's, unless the Celts, French, and Moroccans all have a similar calamity befall them. Yeah, doing some quick math I count about half a million battlefield casualties from all sides of the civil war (assuming that most rebels are dead), which is goddamn staggering for 17th century warfare. Like, I don't think that the entire Thirty Years War managed to reach that number even if we count all military casualties. Assuming a somewhat typical ratio between military and civilian casualties Iberia should be a goddamn depopulated wasteland by now. Cerebral Bore fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 22:49
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B. Peace in our time!
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Aug 3, 2017 22:50
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A no peace, eternal war
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Aug 3, 2017 22:56
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This is a good update. Unfortunately hashim can't army too well and lost a bunch of battles and manpower due to getting outflanked. The colonial army in particular needed a lot more infantry/cavalry than artillery.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:57
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Cerebral Bore posted:Aw jeez. While I get that this should be a huge crisis, I still feel like Hashim might have cranked up the intensity of those rebellions a bit much. My main issue is that there weren't any events where anything good happened it was just "so hey more nobles decided to throw their troops into this rediculous meat grinder of a civil war which they have apparently been watching for years while somehow not getting involved at all previously" which sort of stopped being believable after the 2nd or 3rd time it happened.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:59
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RabidWeasel posted:My main issue is that there weren't any events where anything good happened it was just "so hey more nobles decided to throw their troops into this rediculous meat grinder of a civil war which they have apparently been watching for years while somehow not getting involved at all previously" which sort of stopped being believable after the 2nd or 3rd time it happened. I like that the Castillians and Portuguese sided with the guy that would, no doubt, force convert them.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:06
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RabidWeasel posted:My main issue is that there weren't any events where anything good happened it was just "so hey more nobles decided to throw their troops into this rediculous meat grinder of a civil war which they have apparently been watching for years while somehow not getting involved at all previously" which sort of stopped being believable after the 2nd or 3rd time it happened. He deliberately took the "spawn more rebels" option for several events.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:06
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RabidWeasel posted:My main issue is that there weren't any events where anything good happened it was just "so hey more nobles decided to throw their troops into this rediculous meat grinder of a civil war which they have apparently been watching for years while somehow not getting involved at all previously" which sort of stopped being believable after the 2nd or 3rd time it happened. Dance Officer posted:He deliberately took the "spawn more rebels" option for several events. These are Disaster events, so there are no good options. A lot of times the options were to have 40k rebels pop, or 30k and you lose a bunch of gold, so I usually went for whatever option my army could take. You're not going to get a bunch of events giving you gold and stability when you're in the middle of a disaster. The main thing to keep in mind is that these are all pulse events, so they set off randomly within a set period of time, and this period was set out between years. The only reason they became too much to handle was because France and the Celts declared war, which is not something you consider when writing events for a disaster before the game even begins. hashashash fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 23:08
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Ralepozozaxe posted:I like that the Castillians and Portuguese sided with the guy that would, no doubt, force convert them. Only narrative-wise, and only the Castillians to boot. Portugal is a separate state now, and the same would have happened with the Castillians had they not been crushed.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:09
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Who could have predicted that the Sultan would manage to raise massive armies from among the Castilians? HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE B
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Aug 3, 2017 23:12
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B. Make him sultan, cripple his powers. Also, oh look, all the so-called Dhimmi rose up in rebellion. So much for the Tolerant north! Allah alone should have unrestricted power. It's time to paint the religious map green and focus on our own solidarity.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:13
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paragon1 posted:Who could have predicted that the Sultan would manage to raise massive armies from among the Castilians? That's the problem with writing events for a made up timeline. I wrote them months ago, so I just tried to fit them into the narrative when they popped.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:15
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AJ_Impy posted:B. Make him sultan, cripple his powers. Also, oh look, all the so-called Dhimmi rose up in rebellion. So much for the Tolerant north! Allah alone should have unrestricted power. It's time to paint the religious map green and focus on our own solidarity. The rest of al Andalus also rebelled. It's just what happens.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:19
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Refuse him, only the line of Utman is legitimate!
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Aug 3, 2017 23:26
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Wait, France owns Peru, so how are we supposed to trust any llama?  "Comment oses-tu me parler ainsi!" I was originally going to spearhead the taking of Peru and getting all that juicy gold, but it never came to be. Thanks France  !
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Aug 3, 2017 23:27
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Raserys posted:
Yup. You idiot Merchants deserve this.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:34
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I can't wait to execute all the Loyalists, and then the Ulema once they freak out about our new Shia sultan.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:35
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Snipee posted:Yup. You idiot Merchants deserve this. Don't hurt yourself jumping through all those hoops chief 
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Aug 3, 2017 23:38
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Soup du Jour posted:I can't wait to execute all the Loyalists, and then the Ulema once they freak out about our new Shia sultan. Maybe statements like these are the reason why we distrust all but Allah and his chosen Sultan.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:39
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Soup du Jour posted:I can't wait to execute all the Loyalists, and then the Ulema once they freak out about our new Shia sultan. So long as all power to convert remains in Ulama hands, we can outlive one misguided puppet.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:44
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Wow uh B
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Aug 3, 2017 23:44
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I am exhausted after all that, gently caress. B! poo poo's hosed, hopefully he'll make things less hosed.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:13
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We just have to make sure the Vizier doesn't marry the Sultan's daughter, and everything should be fine. He's too old anyway.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:27
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This is a very difficult decision for me. I love absolutism and removal of all restriction on our leader's power, but I also love the Jizrunids, but do I love the Jizrunids more than I love Sunni Islam? In the end, I can't go back on my pro-Jizrunid rhetoric, so Option B for me. It was a very thrilling read, both hoping Al-Andalus survived and that the Sultan would get his rightful throne. For what its worth, I thought the events were fine. In the regular game, you're supposed to try your hardest to prevent disasters, and if they trigger, you do get tons of terrible events like this.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:33
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, doing some quick math I count about half a million battlefield casualties from all sides of the civil war (assuming that most rebels are dead), which is goddamn staggering for 17th century warfare. Like, I don't think that the entire Thirty Years War managed to reach that number even if we count all military casualties. Assuming a somewhat typical ratio between military and civilian casualties Iberia should be a goddamn depopulated wasteland by now. Ok that's even worse than I expected, but yep you're right. For anyone not familiar, the Thirty Years' War was downright apocalyptic (go ask HEY GAL in the MilHist thread sometime, she loves all the gory details) and spread out over, well, thirty or so years. We just rode out worse, in less than a third the time. Iberia should be horrifically devastated, moreso than ever before. Like, worse than the Black Death and then some. By an order of magnitude. I'm sure we can handwave that away because EUIV's armies do tend to balloon ahistorically large and pretend it wasn't as bad as the numbers suggest, but god drat this is the kind of thing that affects demographics for centuries.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:33
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