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P-Mack posted:I just wish people would go to the dog temple and leave Christianity out of it.
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Aug 3, 2017 22:40
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P-Mack posted:I just wish people would go to the dog temple and leave Christianity out of it. I didn't think Anubis still got any worship nowadays, I know I leave bacon bits out for him and cashews for Thoth. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Aug 3, 2017 |
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Aug 3, 2017 22:41
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Josef bugman posted:I didn't think Anubis still got any worship nowadays, I know I leave bacon bits out for him and cashews for Thoth. do not mix sinic and khemetic religion please
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Aug 3, 2017 22:49
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Senju Kannon posted:do not mix sinic and khemetic religion please Next you'll be repeating the gross slander about Serapis too!
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Aug 3, 2017 23:13
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In case you didn't know which dog god we were talking about : 18 Kings Temple.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:16
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Thirteen Orphans posted:In case you didn't know which dog god we were talking about : 18 Kings Temple. Holy poo poo I need to visit Taiwan.
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Aug 3, 2017 23:46
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Thirteen Orphans posted:In case you didn't know which dog god we were talking about : 18 Kings Temple. Aaaaaah who is a good boy  In dog we trust.
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Aug 4, 2017 00:21
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Hello friends. Apropos of nothing, I am curious about your thoughts on the fate of Judas Iscariot and the idea (per Wikipedia) that Gnostic texts – rejected by the mainstream Church as heretical – praise Judas for his role in triggering humanity's salvation and view Judas as the best of the apostles. Was Judas fated to betray Jesus? If not Judas, would it have been someone else? Was The Betrayal necessary in order to bring about the death and resurrection of Christ? If it was, does that not imply that someone would be condemned by necessity in order to bring that event about? Not expecting any hard answers to those questions, just something I've been thinking about.
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Aug 4, 2017 03:31
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Meridian posted:Hello friends. Apropos of nothing, I am curious about your thoughts on the fate of Judas Iscariot and the idea (per Wikipedia) that Gnostic texts – rejected by the mainstream Church as heretical – praise Judas for his role in triggering humanity's salvation and view Judas as the best of the apostles. I've always had a soft spot for Judas. He strikes me as deluded, not evil. IMO, the Passion would have proceeded pretty much the same, regardless. Jesus deliberately provoked the authorities, and the Sanhedrin wanted him dead. Judas made their job easier, but they would have found another way without him. Judas is an unfortunate footnote in the story, not the central character.
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Aug 4, 2017 03:38
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Deteriorata posted:Judas is an unfortunate footnote in the story, not the central character. Certainly, but one has to wonder about it. I've been listening to a Catholic radio station here and there when I drive and I remember catching a priest talking a bit about Judas and saying that the real tragedy of the whole thing was that Jesus' forgiveness is implicit and obviously extended to him.
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Aug 4, 2017 03:42
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Meridian posted:Hello friends. Apropos of nothing, I am curious about your thoughts on the fate of Judas Iscariot and the idea (per Wikipedia) that Gnostic texts – rejected by the mainstream Church as heretical – praise Judas for his role in triggering humanity's salvation and view Judas as the best of the apostles. The Judas question comes up a lot in the fiction of Borges. You might want to check him out. Ultimately, this type of logic is best exemplified by the khylysty movement: the idea that one must go seeking about sin in order to be forgiven. The plain truth which should be apparent to all of us is that we sin plenty just going about living life without having to go actively searching it out. God takes evil and uses his power to use it for good ends, but this does not change the fact that it is still evil. So we cannot do evil, thinking to ourselves, "surely, God will transform this for some good." Very tired while posting this, apologies if I'm not being clear.
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Aug 4, 2017 03:52
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Judas's sin wasn't that he delivered Christ to the Romans. That sin would have been forgiven by both God and the apostles if he repented. His sin was believing that his actions were unforgivable
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Aug 4, 2017 05:41
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Walking to my train just now I saw a lady with crosses embroidered all over her Hijab. What's happening not Ethiopian trolling I assume
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Aug 4, 2017 07:21
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In the Gospel of John, Judas is simply a thief who steals from the poor box. Definitely not a good thing to do. What the historical (if there was one) Judas did or how the non-canonical Judases behaved, I have no clue, just speculation. What if Judas didn't betray Jesus? Boy, I don't know. What if Prometheus never gave fire to the mortals? What if grasshoppers had machine guns?
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Aug 4, 2017 09:10
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pidan posted:Walking to my train just now I saw a lady with crosses embroidered all over her Hijab. What's happening
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Aug 4, 2017 11:26
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On the subject of Judas (broadly), I'll just say that Andrew Lloyd Webber is someone whose work I find very uneven but that I will defend Jesus Christ Superstar to the death.
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Aug 4, 2017 11:50
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Smoking Crow posted:Judas's sin wasn't that he delivered Christ to the Romans. That sin would have been forgiven by both God and the apostles if he repented. His sin was believing that his actions were unforgivable I mean, logically, to say that his sin was that believing his actions were unforgiveable seems to imply that his actions necessitated forgiveness, which is to imply that they were to some degree sinful.
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Aug 4, 2017 14:47
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I'm talking about the sin that damned him
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Aug 4, 2017 15:52
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Is suicide really that bad, if done out of guilt? It's one of the few things I never got my mind round, if someone wants to die and is in pain, why continue the life or make a murderer of another person.
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Aug 4, 2017 19:33
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i feel like that's bordering on euthanasia talk, which makes me wonder if that's close enough to abortion talk to be banned itt
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Aug 4, 2017 19:37
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Josef bugman posted:Is suicide really that bad, if done out of guilt? Or simply out of losing hope. I've had suicidal thoughts in the past, and the whole "taking your own life is a sin!" thing only made me feel worse, not better.
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Aug 4, 2017 19:43
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Senju Kannon posted:i feel like that's bordering on euthanasia talk, which makes me wonder if that's close enough to abortion talk to be banned itt I think voluntary euthanasia is sufficiently different from abortion to be a safer topic, because everybody sort of agrees on what's at stake, most people don't feel that this might unexpectedly and soon affect them directly, and it's not connected to women's rights. Suicide is a sin because both despair and killing a person are already sins alone, so it would be weird if the combo wasn't. There's also a more modern interpretation where it's considered uncouth to throw away the life that God has generously gifted you (and if he made it hard he probably has his reasons). It's not considered a sin if a severe mental illness drives you to do it, but then neither is anything else. E: also if anybody here has suicidal thoughts please know that life has some good parts and I hope that you have the opportunity to experience them. Nothing I can write here would probably help, but I honestly want all of you to be alive and happy. pidan fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Aug 4, 2017 |
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Aug 4, 2017 20:50
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pidan posted:I think voluntary euthanasia is sufficiently different from abortion to be a safer topic, because everybody sort of agrees on what's at stake, most people don't feel that this might unexpectedly and soon affect them directly, and it's not connected to women's rights. I'm curious, coming from a Protestant point of view, why is despair a sin? Despair seems to me like something that demands pity and help, not condemnation as wrong. And, personally, I don't think "if he made it hard he probably has his reasons" has ever been a source of comfort to anyone. In my suicidal moments, that line of thinking just pushed me further towards the brink.
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Aug 4, 2017 20:56
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Josef bugman posted:Is suicide really that bad, if done out of guilt? I've been sporadically making my way through City of God and I distinctly remember reading a passage where st. Augustine describes some holy women throwing themselves from high places to avoid being raped by an invading army, and suggesting that God would have mercy on them.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:00
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Cythereal posted:I'm curious, coming from a Protestant point of view, why is despair a sin? Despair seems to me like something that demands pity and help, not condemnation as wrong. Hope is a virtue so despair (failing to practice that virtue) is a sin, Catholics can be pretty straightforward at times.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:04
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pidan posted:Hope is a virtue so despair (failing to practice that virtue) is a sin, Catholics can be pretty straightforward at times. So it's my fault when I feel like poo poo and struggle to come up with a reason why I press on day after day. Holy poo poo am I glad I'm not Catholic.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:06
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CountFosco posted:I've been sporadically making my way through City of God and I distinctly remember reading a passage where st. Augustine describes some holy women throwing themselves from high places to avoid being raped by an invading army, and suggesting that God would have mercy on them. I have a hard time buying that any human sin is actually unforgivable. That's putting limits on God and his power. He is free to exercise his mercy and grace in any way he sees fit, in any way he chooses. I agree with Augustine.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:12
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Cythereal posted:So it's my fault when I feel like poo poo and struggle to come up with a reason why I press on day after day. quote:the voluntary and complete abandonment of all hope of saving one's soul and of having the means required for that end. It is not a passive state of mind: on the contrary it involves a positive act of the will by which a person deliberately gives over any expectation of ever reaching eternal life. There is presupposed an intervention of the intellect in virtue of which one comes to decide definitely that salvation is impossible. If not all of these conditions are present, it's not despair (the sin).
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Aug 4, 2017 21:29
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I'd say Despair's really more of a passion, and all passions deserve pity and help.
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Aug 4, 2017 21:40
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Having had pretty much continuous combat with whatever demons of suicide decided my poo poo needed to get wrecked I can tell you it's not your fault you feel that way, you are stronger than them, and anyone who succumbs was so sick they had no choice/agency. That's why it's so important to treat it early and aggressively, so that you don't lose control.
Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 4, 2017 21:40
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Josef bugman posted:Is suicide really that bad, if done out of guilt? Wasn't banning/condemning suicide one of those things the Church instituted to keep people from speeding up their own entry to heaven, like how "no married priests" is really about property division?
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Aug 4, 2017 22:18
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Hoover Dam posted:Wasn't banning/condemning suicide one of those things the Church instituted to keep people from speeding up their own entry to heaven, like how "no married priests" is really about property division? I mean probably. One of those things where practicality comes first and then you think up the philosophy maybe? Keromaru5 posted:I'd say Despair's really more of a passion, and all passions deserve pity and help. Could you elaborate, I'd say that passions can be good or ill.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:27
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Josef bugman posted:Could you elaborate, I'd say that passions can be good or ill. passions in byzantine theology/psychology refer specifically to the sub-rational impulses we have that motivate us to do things independent of whether those things are good or not. part of the process of theosis is taming and disciplining the passions so that they aren't strong enough to overcome the conscious will. sometimes they motivate us to do good things, but it's not because those things are good. catholic and orthodox moral theology both consider this less than ideal: doing good things is better than not doing them because it's still participating in God's grace, but doing good things because they're good is better by far. thus, the passions must be tamed not only to avoid evil but also to better participate in the good.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:51
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Josef bugman posted:Could you elaborate, I'd say that passions can be good or ill. like, in huge amounts
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Aug 4, 2017 22:55
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Bel_Canto posted:thus, the passions must be tamed not only to avoid evil but also to better participate in the good. So its an attempt to square the old "what if you do a good thing for a bad reason" circle. HEY GAIL posted:how familiar are you with plato I know what a Platonic ideal is, and I know he favoured the idea of a "philosopher king" which is something that I personally find laughable. But "passion" in this case is a specific subtype of philosophical language, not how most people would use "passionate"?
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Aug 4, 2017 23:01
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Josef bugman posted:Is suicide really that bad, if done out of guilt? Suicide is the only sin you can't seek forgiveness for. Eating babies, burning down churches, voting for nazis, operating gas chambers, putting food waste in the blue bin, all of these can be followed up by a sincere quest for absolution. But once you kill yourself, you won't be seeking out much of anything. The corollary to all this is that if whatever the circumstances of your suicide aren't sinful, then you don't need to seek forgiveness so whatever. Traditionally this is called martyrdom, and then they make little plaster statues of you.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:21
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Hoover Dam posted:like how "no married priests" is really about property division? This isn't the only reason the Latin Church adopted a celibate clergy. In the early church there was always the question about whether clergy need to be celibate, with different communities deciding on different things. Some communities decided you could only be married if you got married before getting ordained. Others said you could be ordained if you were married, but you'd have to live celibately after ordination. Also, once the Church had established the formal Episcopacy, there were never ordained Bishops. So yeah, secular politics were involved, but the theological fight had been going on for centuries. Thirteen Orphans fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Aug 4, 2017 |
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Aug 4, 2017 23:35
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Hoover Dam posted:Wasn't banning/condemning suicide one of those things the Church instituted to keep people from speeding up their own entry to heaven, like how "no married priests" is really about property division? Yeah, that's why the Circumcellions were anathematized. Dying for the faith during a time of persecution is laudable. Inviting persecution by running into the agora and yelling "I'm a Christian, down with your false Gods, guess you all gotta kill me now!" is dumbass behavior.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:37
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Bel_Canto posted:sometimes they motivate us to do good things, but it's not because those things are good. catholic and orthodox moral theology both consider this less than ideal: doing good things is better than not doing them because it's still participating in God's grace, but doing good things because they're good is better by far. thus, the passions must be tamed not only to avoid evil but also to better participate in the good.
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Aug 4, 2017 23:46
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Deteriorata posted:I have a hard time buying that any human sin is actually unforgivable. That's putting limits on God and his power. He is free to exercise his mercy and grace in any way he sees fit, in any way he chooses. I agree with Augustine. Iirc blashpeming the holy spirit is the only thing which is "unforgivable."
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Aug 5, 2017 03:41
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