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So he's arguing that even going jailhouse-gay is superior to inceldom? Well then, why don't they?
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Aug 6, 2017 13:13
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No he's saying being raped in prison is superior to being an incel
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Aug 6, 2017 14:58
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timefly posted:No he's saying being raped in prison is superior to being an incel Roadkill is superior to being an incel
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Aug 6, 2017 15:00
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timefly posted:No he's saying being raped in prison is superior to being an incel He's not just saying prison rape is superior to being Incel. He's flat out saying men "can't" be raped and that any sex (because rape is about the sex of course) for a man is better than no sex at all. I think I threw up a little in my mouth reading that garbage. I've read so much poo poo from these idiots that has made me actually cringe away from the screen but that actually makes me feel ill. Jesus tap dancing Christ. That's not how that works you loving Incel idiots, that's not how any of this works.
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Aug 6, 2017 17:03
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r/Incels: That's not how that works you loving Incel idiots, that's not how any of this works.
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Aug 6, 2017 17:05
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joylessdivision posted:He's not just saying prison rape is superior to being Incel. He's flat out saying men "can't" be raped and that any sex (because rape is about the sex of course) for a man is better than no sex at all. Derp* down they must know they don't really want to end up in prison getting raped, and it wouldn't be preferable to be in that situation. Otherwise they would just commit a crime and get into prison for all the free (nonconsensual) sex they could ask for. They're cowards who spew garbage on the Internet with no repercussions, insulting people who have been through true hardships in life. They have no compassion for anyone not also an incel. Yet they expect other people to have compassion for them. I'm convinced that incels are some of the most reprehensible people in the world next to pedos, and there is even significant overlap there. I hope to God these guys are on a watchlist. *this was a typo, but appropriate
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Aug 6, 2017 17:39
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green chicken feet posted:They have no compassion for anyone not also an incel. Yet they expect other people to have compassion for them. It doesn't help that many people are buttfucking terrible at showing compassion even when they have it/want to, because it involves validating a viewpoint they might find reprehensible and it's easy to confuse "validation" with "coddling/indulgence," complicated even further when many given validation are eager to abuse it. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 17:52
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green chicken feet posted:I'm convinced that incels are some of the most reprehensible people in the world They make it so hard not to believe this statement. In actuality I think most of these folks are pretty disturbed and despite their reasoning really need mental and emotional help. I can't help but wondering what the homes these people grew up in were like? Like, what's the proportion of these guys who come from a home that features paternal abuse as a main attraction?
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Aug 6, 2017 17:56
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mind the walrus posted:They've conditioned themselves to getting off to bemoaning the lack of compassion to the point where it's a reflex much like actual masturbation, and forgotten that "compassion" != "coddling/indulging." Good observation, because people do visit the subreddit showing compassion in trying to help the incels, generally by providing advice or personal stories to dispel misconceptions. These well-meaning souls are generally driven out because they don't tell the incels what they want to hear. Coddling is what incels think is compassion, but it's like giving a drunk a drink. It will temporarily make them feel better, but ultimately harm them.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:06
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Some of these people might be too far gone.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:08
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COMRADES posted:Some of these people might be too far gone. Asylums? Okay, asylums.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:10
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Literally A Person posted:They make it so hard not to believe this statement. In actuality I think most of these folks are pretty disturbed and despite their reasoning really need mental and emotional help. I can't help but wondering what the homes these people grew up in were like? Like, what's the proportion of these guys who come from a home that features paternal abuse as a main attraction? I think there is a lot of mental illness in the mix, or spectrum disorders. But I would bet most of these guys have, if anything, been over-coddled or neglected rather than physically/mentally abused. I'm no psychologist, but their "I should get everything I want with no effort" mentality says spoiled brat to me. I do think these guys need help. You'd have to Baker Act them though because no way in Hell would most of them admit there is something wrong with their brains. COMRADES posted:Some of these people might be too far gone. I have no doubt some of them are.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:21
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green chicken feet posted:I'm no psychologist, but their "I should get everything I want with no effort" mentality says spoiled brat to me. I totally see this. It just seems so drat extreme. Like, what happened to just spending all of your folks' money and being happy about it? I mean, the people who I knew that had ma and pa's credit card and lived a responsibility free lifestyle really seemed to enjoy themselves 
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Aug 6, 2017 18:24
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green chicken feet posted:Good observation, because people do visit the subreddit showing compassion in trying to help the incels, generally by providing advice or personal stories to dispel misconceptions. These well-meaning souls are generally driven out because they don't tell the incels what they want to hear. Literally A Person posted:Asylums? Okay, asylums. green chicken feet posted:I think there is a lot of mental illness in the mix, or spectrum disorders. But I would bet most of these guys have, if anything, been over-coddled or neglected rather than physically/mentally abused.  100%. Constants I've noticed are abusive/absent/neglectful father figures and unchecked time spent with media. I don't think it's a coincidence these communities have seen a sharp spike in activity in the last 25 years when media quantity/access exploded, latchkey kids/divorced parents became much more common, and the internet allowed unfettered commiseration.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:32
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mind the walrus posted:unfettered commiseration. Jesus Christ, you need to write an academic paper just to coin this term. DO IT BEFORE SOMEONE BEATS YOU TO IT!!!!
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Aug 6, 2017 18:35
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I am like 99% sure I read it somewhere else and it lodged into my brain before reusing it.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:37
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One other thing from your post:mind the walrus posted:Constants I've noticed are abusive/absent/neglectful father figures and unchecked time spent with media This, it seems, is an extremely potent combination. It's almost as if young men need guidance from a person that is generally a decent human being when they are being bombarded by media portrayals of "masculinity" all the loving time.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:40
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Literally A Person posted:They make it so hard not to believe this statement. In actuality I think most of these folks are pretty disturbed and despite their reasoning really need mental and emotional help. I can't help but wondering what the homes these people grew up in were like? Like, what's the proportion of these guys who come from a home that features paternal abuse as a main attraction? I don't think most of these people were abused at all. In fact, I think most of them were probably entirely unchallenged. That's a big part of the problem.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:40
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Pick posted:I don't think most of these people were abused at all. In fact, I think most of them were probably entirely unchallenged. That's a big part of the problem. Yes, I acknowledged this. I was just spit-ballin' and mind the walrus kinda made a good refuting argument.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:42
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reading this thread makes me glad I have a good dad 
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Aug 6, 2017 18:43
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Nah it's fine I just post as I read on my phone because the setup is different haha. It feels to me a lot of these guys were coddled by their mothers, because their mothers wanted their sons to love them (non-sexually obv) because their husbands didn't. In almost every single one of these cases I've observed IRL, the mother was essentially a self-professed "strong woman" but in reality a doormat, and their husband didn't care a whit for them or anyone else. If you grow up with someone who is basically a slave, you'll learn to expect the lifestyle of a slaveowner. I think one of the groups that really needs therapy here, is a bunch of neglected moms.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:45
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Pick posted:I think one of the groups that really needs therapy here, is a bunch of neglected moms. I think you're right. I wish we could get some insight that wasn't filtered directly through the people we're observing. E: actually, maybe I don't 
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Aug 6, 2017 18:52
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green chicken feet posted:Derp* down they must know they don't really want to end up in prison getting raped, and it wouldn't be preferable to be in that situation. Otherwise they would just commit a crime and get into prison for all the free (nonconsensual) sex they could ask for. Of course they are cowards, that's why Lie Down And Rot is a concept with these guys. If they really believed that their condition is such unbearable misery and that there's no chance for escape, then they would have killed themselves. But no, allowance/disability checks/their lovely wage still allows them to buy snacks, anime and games, and they can bitch to each other about Chads and females, and about how life is sooooo unfair, while putting in no effort to improve their own situation. It's like a child throwing a tantrum because snack time was 30 min late, and now they are "starving".
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Aug 6, 2017 18:54
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mind the walrus posted:I was one of those people before I really knew what "incel" was. I saw /r/ForeverUnwanted and replied to some post about my own dating life and how poo poo isn't totally hopeless even if you are a loser. I was banned with a PM that simply said "gently caress you." I would totally have done this as well if I hadn't already seen how these guys treat people who try to help. I have a lot of compassion for geeky guys who just want relationships and are awkward with women. However, that isn't how I'd describe incels. I'd describe them as wannabe rapists. Almost every one of their "solutions" for their predicament involves removing sexual agency from other people. But not from themselves, of course.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:55
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green chicken feet posted:I would totally have done this as well if I hadn't already seen how these guys treat people who try to help. Sexual individual exceptionalism. A freaky concept.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:57
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Literally A Person posted:One other thing from your post: On the subject of media portrayals of masculinity, I am guessing this is more likely me just noticing it more, but it seems like male-focused advertising and product/service naming has gotten more prevalent and stupid of late. Like if it's intended for men some service needs to be "executive" or prefaced with man-, or like soap needs to be tough and aggressive and annihilates dirt or stuff like that. It's soap! It's like >99% identical to soap marketed to women, it just smells worse. But that's just fragile masculinity for you. To relate it to incels, they absolutely are heavily influenced by media masculinity, but there's no way they'd ever find anything that seriously discusses it because that's basically feminist literature. chumbler fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 18:59
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"Manly" versions of everyday products have been a thing as long as I can remember. Admittedly I don't pay enough attention to advertisement to comment on whether it's gotten more common lately.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:01
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Shanghaied posted:It's like a child throwing a tantrum because snack time was 30 min late, and now they are "starving". Yeah, for some reason I was just reminded of an episode of some Brides from Hell type reality show I saw once. I'm pretty sure it was fake but these guys remind me of the bride who was pitching a fit because she wanted to spend $20K on the honeymoon airline tickets to Japan instead of $5K. These guys are that spoiled.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:01
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chumbler posted:On the subject of media portrayals of masculinity, I am guessing this is more likely me just noticing it more, but it seems like male-focused advertising and product/service naming has gotten more prevalent and stupid of late. Like if it's intended for men some service needs to be "executive" or prefaced with man-, or like soap needs to be tough and aggressive and annihilates dirt or stuff like that. It's soap! It's like >99% identical to soap marketed to women, it just smells worse. As a duder, I will say that it can be kinda hard to figure out what is masculine in a pretty rapidly changing societal landscape. This kind of poo poo is just trying to keep us trapped in the same circular logic about masculinity we have been in for years. One, much like the logic women are trapped in, that leaves us with little choice of how to interact with society at large. it's p lame.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:02
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green chicken feet posted:I would totally have done this as well if I hadn't already seen how these guys treat people who try to help. I used to be sensitive to this as well, as well as many of my friends, and it turns out this led to us being horrifically abused, at length. They didn't want a "relationship", they wanted other people to defer to them and obey them, and branded this "compassion". There was never any compassion in return.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:03
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Literally A Person posted:As a duder, I will say that it can be kinda hard to figure out what is masculine in a pretty rapidly changing societal landscape. This kind of poo poo is just trying to keep us trapped in the same circular logic about masculinity we have been in for years. One, much like the logic women are trapped in, that leaves us with little choice of how to interact with society at large. I am also a duder for the record. But yeah, even the weak attempts to "rebrand" masculinity are still laser focused on framing everything around strength and individuality which really fixes nothing. At the very least defining masculinity in part around self destructive things like alcohol or jobs nobody should be doing or should at least be done more safely needs to go away.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:08
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chumbler posted:On the subject of media portrayals of masculinity, I am guessing this is more likely me just noticing it more, but it seems like male-focused advertising and product/service naming has gotten more prevalent and stupid of late. Like if it's intended for men some service needs to be "executive" or prefaced with man-, or like soap needs to be tough and aggressive and annihilates dirt or stuff like that. It's soap! It's like >99% identical to soap marketed to women, it just smells worse. This was thing a couple of years ago, with some MMA dude being the spokesman:   Like you want to wear nail polish, whatever dude, just do it, don't pretend it's "armour" for your nails.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:09
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chumbler posted:I am also a duder for the record. But yeah, even the weak attempts to "rebrand" masculinity are still laser focused on framing everything around strength and individuality which really fixes nothing. It's almost as if gendering every loving skill, product, and occupation may have some sort of negative consequences 
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Aug 6, 2017 19:09
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Pick posted:If you grow up with someone who is basically a slave, you'll learn to expect the lifestyle of a slaveowner. I think one of the groups that really needs therapy here, is a bunch of neglected moms. I feel pretty bad for these guys' moms. Many of them probably did their best for their kids and they don't understand what went wrong. People know spoiling a child is bad for them in the long run, but it can be a challenge to be tough on them when you need to be. You have to remind yourself that it's for their own good that they don't get everything they want.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:10
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green chicken feet posted:it's for their own good that they don't get everything they want. 
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Aug 6, 2017 19:12
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green chicken feet posted:I feel pretty bad for these guys' moms. Many of them probably did their best for their kids and they don't understand what went wrong. Especially when your kid has legitimate issues, e.g. they're at that age where they're starting to realize they're no-poo poo ugly or not very smart or what-have-you.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:13
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Pick posted:Especially when your kid has legitimate issues, e.g. they're at that age where they're starting to realize they're no-poo poo ugly or not very smart or what-have-you. Isn't your job as a parent to teach your child that having a defect doesn't immediately disqualify you from happiness? e.g. "No one is perfect, but you still rock"
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Aug 6, 2017 19:15
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Literally A Person posted:Isn't your job as a parent to teach your child that having a defect doesn't immediately disqualify you from happiness? Pick's parents took a...different approach to this problem.  "Now cut up the Quasimodo figure, little Pick, so that you learn that ugly people are subhuman. This is a good thing to make a child do."E: VVV It's definitely the best one I've ever had, people seem to love it. I'm thinking of running for Forums President 2020 and I appreciate your support. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 19:17
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WampaLord posted:Pick's parents took a...different approach to this problem.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:21
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Yeah, pretty true that it's "no duh" that you don't give a child everything he wants, but it's a definite test of willpower when that cute little face you love is giving you the biggest frown ever. I can see how people with emotionally-neglectful spouses might be more tempted to placate their child, hoping for affection which they can't receive from their spouse. But it will only backfire later when the kid becomes a complete tyrant.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:23
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