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one day wallenstein-sempai will notice me
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Aug 6, 2017 11:26
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| # ? May 25, 2024 14:22 |
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He's not speaking for his side - there are those of us on the hard left who believe we are not only politically but morally obligated to hold ourselves to a higher standard than those who came before us, especially when they committed atrocities through action and inaction in the name of communism. To fit with the thread I should really post something about hardcore communist COs who ended up being shot by Stalin really. Will do when I've finished moving house!
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Aug 6, 2017 11:47
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Hey, I spotted McCullough's book 1776 at a second hand bookstore recently. Worth grabbing?
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Aug 6, 2017 11:56
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HEY GAIL posted:one day wallenstein-sempai will notice me Dragonpike Z
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Aug 6, 2017 12:37
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*In realpolitik voice* Well, actually, while it ultimately didn't work out, the holocaust did benefit many Germans and the German state in the short run as they repossessed wealth and means of production from the Jewish people and eliminated competition with Jewish business. Some Jews died.
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Aug 6, 2017 13:11
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Gonna let you all cool your heels a bit.
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Aug 6, 2017 13:26
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Shut the gently caress up with the tankie poo poo and politics and post about drunk soldiers or sperging about tanks for 80 pages or whatever the gently caress happens in here. Much like the NKVD, I will be watching the thread for people to disappear.
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Aug 6, 2017 17:47
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did the Russians have an infantry antitank weapon in WW2 similar to the Panzerfaust, PIAT, or Bazooka?
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Aug 6, 2017 17:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:did the Russians have an infantry antitank weapon in WW2 similar to the Panzerfaust, PIAT, or Bazooka? Nope, it was pretty much all ATRs and Molotovs
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Aug 6, 2017 17:57
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Nope, it was pretty much all ATRs and Molotovs Surely you are not underselling the glorious anti tank dog?
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Aug 6, 2017 18:04
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Grand Fromage posted:Shut the gently caress up with the tankie poo poo and politics and post about drunk soldiers or sperging about tanks for 80 pages or whatever the gently caress happens in here. War is the continuing of shitposting by other means.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:08
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OwlFancier posted:Surely you are not underselling the glorious anti tank dog? He asked for similarities! If he wanted to know about something similar to the Goliath tank, however...
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Aug 6, 2017 18:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:did the Russians have an infantry antitank weapon in WW2 similar to the Panzerfaust, PIAT, or Bazooka? No. They could have, but all the weapons that were developed or obtained otherwise were pitted against anti-tank rifles and were expected to do everything anti-tank rifles could do before they truly replaced them. There were some domestic designs firing 82 mm rockets and rifle grenades. All of these designs had the same drawback: they were ineffective at a range of over 100 meters. The Panzerfaust and Bazooka were also not considered particularly effective, since they had the same weakness. Then there was this thing, which I guess is not very close to a bazooka, but metal as gently caress.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:27
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Were antitank rifles effective against anything tank over 100 meters?
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Aug 6, 2017 18:52
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Siivola posted:Hey, I spotted McCullough's book 1776 at a second hand bookstore recently. Worth grabbing? Sure. McCullough's very readable, and I'm unaware of any academic objections to his books.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:57
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Ensign Expendable posted:No. They could have, but all the weapons that were developed or obtained otherwise were pitted against anti-tank rifles and were expected to do everything anti-tank rifles could do before they truly replaced them. There were some domestic designs firing 82 mm rockets and rifle grenades. All of these designs had the same drawback: they were ineffective at a range of over 100 meters. The Panzerfaust and Bazooka were also not considered particularly effective, since they had the same weakness. How much use did the Soviets make of captured panzerfausts and panzerschrecks? I imagine to the average soldier in 1944 who just watched some T34s cook that Panzerfaust next to the dead German looks mighty tempting.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:03
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JcDent posted:Were antitank rifles effective against anything tank over 100 meters? Against lightly armoured targets, yes. Against PzIIIs and PzIVs with upgraded armour and skirts, not so much.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:21
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Hey HEY GAIL, this essay has a really hot take on the Peace of Westphalia. https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376
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Aug 6, 2017 19:34
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By '43 Anti-tank rifles were completely obsolete, which is why after the war people are work on recoilless rifles instead
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Aug 6, 2017 19:38
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Kemper Boyd posted:Hey HEY GAIL, this essay has a really hot take on the Peace of Westphalia. My eyes glazed over at "The title of this essay should disturb you."
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Aug 6, 2017 19:44
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Nebakenezzer posted:My eyes glazed over at "The title of this essay should disturb you." Eh, it's a fairly bog-standard 'Tolerance of intolerance is suicide' exploration, with an added look at religion in the context of tolerance.
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Aug 6, 2017 19:49
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VanSandman posted:Eh, it's a fairly bog-standard 'Tolerance of intolerance is suicide' exploration, with an added look at religion in the context of tolerance. quote:It is appropriate, even ethical, to answer force with proportional force, when that force is required to restore a just peace.
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Aug 6, 2017 20:07
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Jobbo_Fett posted:He asked for similarities! If he wanted to know about something similar to the Goliath tank, however... An anti tank dog is basically the precursor to the javelin missile except from the other direction.
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Aug 6, 2017 20:26
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OwlFancier posted:An anti tank dog is basically the precursor to the javelin missile except from the other direction. Moles would be more accurate!
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Aug 6, 2017 20:28
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KomradeX posted:By '43 Anti-tank rifles were completely obsolete, which is why after the war people are work on recoilless rifles instead In their original intended role yes. Anti materiel rifles exist to this day though for lighter stuff.
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Aug 6, 2017 20:37
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https://youtu.be/V-lJZPF_fJQ So it woild seem I'm not the only one going "Heeyyy.. wait a minute.." on the idea of bolt-actions in lighter cartridges in the WW2 era.
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Aug 6, 2017 21:10
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What's a good book about tanks in WW2? Less the battles, more the the general research and design, how each side reacted to the others developments, etc.
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Aug 6, 2017 21:40
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Xerxes17 posted:https://youtu.be/V-lJZPF_fJQ Interestingly, he goes on to shoot it against a beat-to-poo poo Mauser. The two weapons perform pretty much the same - strongly suggesting that the lighter cartridge doesn't give that much advantage in a bolt gun.
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Aug 6, 2017 21:45
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team overhead smash posted:What's a good book about tanks in WW2? Less the battles, more the the general research and design, how each side reacted to the others developments, etc. Armoured Champion, if you're looking for tanks in general and not a specific tank.
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Aug 6, 2017 21:57
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Gnoman posted:Interestingly, he goes on to shoot it against a beat-to-poo poo Mauser. The two weapons perform pretty much the same - strongly suggesting that the lighter cartridge doesn't give that much advantage in a bolt gun. Well, to be fair Ian almost always loses to Karl, and they acknowledge that.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:08
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True enough. It isn't exactly a scientific study anyway, I just found it amusing that there was almost no difference in the results for a test that should play to the weaker cartridge's greatest strengths. If this proved typical, that would greatly diminish the value, as you're giving up capability (however seldom used) without gaining a corresponding advantage.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:12
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dublish posted:Sure. McCullough's very readable, and I'm unaware of any academic objections to his books.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:14
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Ensign Expendable posted:Armoured Champion, if you're looking for tanks in general and not a specific tank. But it says the Panther tank is... good? 
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Aug 6, 2017 22:20
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Xerxes17 posted:Well, to be fair Ian almost always loses to Karl, and they acknowledge that. When has he won? It's especially lopsided with Ian shooting lefty against Karl on bolt actions. However it doesn't seem like the lighter round makes a huge difference. On the other hand it's a light and handy gun that seems to work well when running and moving around, which is good.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:48
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Gnoman posted:True enough. Wouldn't the advantage be more ammunition produced/carried?
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Aug 6, 2017 22:52
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Gnoman posted:Interestingly, he goes on to shoot it against a beat-to-poo poo Mauser. The two weapons perform pretty much the same - strongly suggesting that the lighter cartridge doesn't give that much advantage in a bolt gun. I'd be more inclined to suggest that might be because Ian isn't a very good shot, at least not compared to the other guy, and he struggles left handed. Really you'd want them to swap guns.
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Aug 6, 2017 22:59
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Wouldn't the advantage be more ammunition produced/carried? Yes, but this is really a much smaller consideration with bolt action rifles than with full auto battle rifles / assault rifles. Plus, again, no one is talking about putting something like 7.62x39 in a WW2 bolt action, they're talking about the 6mm half-way house cartridges that are almost (but not quite) as large as a full sized rifle round. You're not going to see as much extra ammo carried in that case.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:16
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The big advantage of a lighter caliber round is that you can make the gun smaller (not only making it handier to move around, but also reducing the amount of weight a soldier would have to carry), and don't have as much recoil. This seems quite attractive, and seems to be completely free since most rounds that are fired for effect are fired at very close targets - meaning that the multi-kilometer range of 8mm Mauser or .30-06 is completely unnecessary. While the lighter gun is an undeniable advantage, if it doesn't actually prove to be more useful at closer ranges then you lose most of the advantage - potentially meaning that it isn't worth losing the extreme range capability in the event that a soldier might actually need to take a long-range shot, or at a target that is behind medium cover that you need the heavier round to penetrate. The lighter recoil is absolutely a huge advantage in full auto, and a lesser one in semi-auto, but in a bolt-action it is less clear.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:25
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Ensign Expendable posted:Armoured Champion, if you're looking for tanks in general and not a specific tank. Checked out the Kindle sample. Seems more like a "which tank is best"/"who would win in a fight" type book. I'm more looking for something on the research race as the sides continually up-armoured/up-gunned.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:28
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| # ? May 25, 2024 14:22 |
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That reminds me. Years ago, I read a somewhat "novelized" account of the Me-163 project (it read very similar to Tracy Kidder's The Soul Of The New Machine), but have forgotten the title completely. Does anybody know what that might have been?
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Aug 6, 2017 23:33
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