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Leperflesh posted:Got it! any night, til whenever. but I can probably make whatever time you guys pick work. Or slow draft....
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Jul 31, 2017 18:43
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Reminder to address the studs going back into the rookie draft issue from the other thread.
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Aug 2, 2017 23:27
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Spermy Smurf posted:Reminder to address the studs going back into the rookie draft issue from the other thread. Is the answer just that the rookie draft is rookie only and studs (dropped vets) require faab bidding?
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Aug 3, 2017 00:06
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Rookie draft is for all unsigned players, we need to update our rules if we want to change it to that. I agree that would be a good way to do it. Have a special week where it's FAAB for all nonrooks.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:09
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Yeah I dunno! It's not a problem that really occurred to me before, and we haven't hit it. But I think it's just one of several issues that we'll have to deal with sooner or later, along with poo poo like david johnson's salary staying stupidly low forever, exactly how much rookie draft salaries should be, whether we should bother with snake style drafting when really nobody is trading draft picks anyway, and so on. I've been waiting on the last guy to pay dues before doing a bunch of poo poo but we can get started on these kinds of discussions any time.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:09
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Like, here's the thing: I envision getting earlier draft picks the first three rounds as being a nice consolation for finishing really badly in a given year. I don't want to just take that away without careful consideration. That said, if we just did auctions for the rookie/free agent draft, then salaries would always be set according to their market value, which would be a good thing. And that could be separate from considerations of how fast salaries should accelerate, and/or whether we should institute contracts with maximum terms (plus that adds the option of having a franchise tag, etc.). But if you always do auctions, then owners really have to focus on managing their cap, because an owner that is better at securing high-value low-salary players can dominate forever: the other teams don't get a little boost from finishing badly the way they do now, so there's nothing to tend to level the playing field over time.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:13
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Spermy Smurf posted:Rookie draft is for all unsigned players, we need to update our rules if we want to change it to that. It seems like a decent starting place (otherwise I could for example drop Julio and take him #1 to reduce his salary to 20). For the other issue (keeping forever), could just add escalators in year 4-5 or whatever. Not having any kind of draft kinda sucks for teams at the bottom as they don't get any help in recovering.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:14
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I have always wanted a drop period for everyone to clear up roster/cap space for the draft, followed by a one-time FAAB period to make claims on the drops, then a full lock before the draft. That way if a Julio Jones does get dropped by the team drafting first they are forced to outbid the other 11 teams to get him back as he would not go unclaimed. Or you could keep it the way it is and allow a team to do that. I do not see a problem with this as the team is sacrificing a top rookie player for possibly $30+ of cap relief which might allow them to keep players that would otherwise be cap casualties.
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Aug 3, 2017 03:58
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Yeah I think MFL would support most or all of that, although we might need to just agree to submit FAAB bids only on players that were just dropped (or on just non-rookies, if we want to have the draft be purely for rookies). Owners would have to guess in advance whether they'd need the cap space before entering the rookie draft, but that would be part of the challenge.
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Aug 3, 2017 05:21
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Tying to make this easier for Leper... Here's the poll for people who havent taken it and the new guys: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1p43dAmE3a3YWReQp8MtvAFdA6cy-O65ueiZ57Acw_Kc/ poo poo we need to fix (or at least did 4 pages ago): People who play defense and get randomly subbed in on offense should get points for TDs that they score. In our current scoring they don't, so Watt's 3TD season wouldn't have counted. This is a blanket change to allow defensive people to get Rush yards, reception points, receiving yards, TD's... It's used maybe once every two years. But it should be in effect just so we don't have to fight it the one time it does happen. Do we want Return Yards for any of the following to count? No wins 3-2. Add another defensive player slot? Yes, defensive Flex wins 3-2 (linebacker with 2 votes) If we add a defensive player, bump rosters by....? 1 roster spot addition wins by 4-1 votes Change waiver settings? 2 votes for Yes, 2 for maybe, 1 for "dont care" Pick your preferred waiver period settings: What we have now wins 4-1, so no change to waivers. Change defensive scoring? Pick all you want. 3 votes (half the voters for): Add points QB Hurries; Add points for QB hits. 2 votes for sack yards and 2 votes for TFL yards. About these last 2 votes: There were 4 votes abstaining from these types of changes so that's a no? Change fumble recovery points? Tie. 3 want to change to something, 3 want no change. Freeze taxi players for all teams during playoffs? 6 votes out of 6 for YES. Ideas for weekly incentives. Take some cash from all winning pots and give $3-5 for winning weekly mini games? 4 votes no, 2 yes. Add a 1.13 draft pick, award it to Consolation bracket winner? 4 votes no, 2 yes.
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Aug 7, 2017 13:06
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Yeah sorry I didn't post for a while. I was hoping to get the league dues all sorted and also schedule our draft. I'm waiting for Bloody to pay, and right now I only have draft times on the spreadsheet for myself, Spermy Smurf, Epi Lepi, Swarmin Swedes, and Stevie Lee: Right now though it looks like Thursday the 31st or Friday the 1st, after 9:30PM EST would work for everyone who has responded. Spermy, thanks for the roundup of info. I'll put together a complete list, there's some more recent questions we came up with, and then we can discuss. As a reminder, the actual way we make rules in this league is by agreement of the commissioners; but I prefer to poll the whole league and then do what the majority wants, and I think the other commissioners have tended to prefer to do that as well. We currently have one commissioner seat open, so it might be prudent to appoint/elect/shanghai that person before we commit to rules changes? I believe our new guy, Teemu, has sort of volunteered, but any of the other owners are eligible as well. The first week of preseason is upon us, so it's definitely time to get our asses in gear on this stuff. I've been increasingly busy at home as I get ready for a five-day trip out of town in two weeks, but I can still get this stuff organized at the same time. I'll be gone from Friday, August 18th through Tuesday, August 22nd.
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Aug 7, 2017 17:41
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I appear to only have view only access to the spreadsheet, but those times work for me.
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Aug 8, 2017 21:02
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Yeah I originally only shared edit access with the other commissioners. If you click to request access I'll grant it, though: I did that a few days ago for Epi Lepi.
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Aug 8, 2017 22:29
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I can do the 28th, 29th, 31st, and 1st anytime after 7p, and can make the 2nd and 3rd (3rd in the morning/early afternoon) work if need be but definitely prefer weeknights to weekends. The 25-27th is a no go for me, and the 30th I'm going to a baseball game. I don't have my September schedule for my 2nd job yet, but it's very likely I'll have to work the 4th-6th. Also, when do rosters open for transactions? Is there a pre-draft trading period? Because Gurley, Jeffery, Peterson, Diggs, and Howard would all be varying degrees of available for sure
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Aug 9, 2017 00:27
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Teemu Pokemon posted:I can do the 28th, 29th, 31st, and 1st anytime after 7p, and can make the 2nd and 3rd (3rd in the morning/early afternoon) work if need be but definitely prefer weeknights to weekends. The 25-27th is a no go for me, and the 30th I'm going to a baseball game. I don't have my September schedule for my 2nd job yet, but it's very likely I'll have to work the 4th-6th. OK this is how I interpreted what you said: what's your availability for the 1st?  I wanted to open the league up for transactions after everyone had paid, but we're waiting on Bloody. It might also make sense to hash out any rules changes before people commit to drops/trades, in case that affects their decision making. e. whoops I see you actually added the 1st for 7pm+ as well, so I'll add that now.
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Aug 9, 2017 00:34
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My IRL draft is Sunday the 27th at 1 pm Eastern. Other than that, after 8 pm Eastern any day is ideal.
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Aug 9, 2017 00:56
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Yeah that input + added 9/1 looks perfect for me. Also, for 9/2, I don't need any specific time like 9/3, but I would prefer the same morning/early afternoon time frame
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Aug 9, 2017 01:08
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah I originally only shared edit access with the other commissioners. If you click to request access I'll grant it, though: I did that a few days ago for Epi Lepi. Gotcha. Hard to do from mobile - essentially any time the week of the 27th works for me.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:10
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Teemu Pokemon posted:Yeah that input + added 9/1 looks perfect for me. Also, for 9/2, I don't need any specific time like 9/3, but I would prefer the same morning/early afternoon time frame OK. I'll be honest with you, no time in the morning Eastern will work for me because I'm in California and noon eastern is about the earliest I get out of bed. Swarmin Swedes also already said 4pm+ for that day, The Zack is 8pm+ for that day, and Stevie Lee is 9:30pm+ for that day, so to accommodate the most people if we decide to draft on Saturday the 2nd it'd be late in the evening. If that doesn't work for you, I think that pushes us more towards a thursday the 31st or friday the 1st evening (9:30pm+) draft, which still seems to be working for everyone who has replied so far. Still need to hear from Vecna, Chen, Tyler, and Bloody to see if either of those slots actually work though.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:16
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If that's the last resort it is what it is. Would rather not hold my Saturday night for a ffb draft, but if that's what it's gotta be I'd make it work
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Aug 9, 2017 02:18
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Yeah right now I'd lean towards the thursday or friday too. Let's see what the remaining guys want.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:40
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At the risk of sounding like Tyler's agent again he said any weekday is fine. He is MTN time so just stay away from the weekend he posted a while ago and it's all good.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:55
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atomictyler posted:If we do the draft on a Sunday afternoon/night I'm free any week as far as I can tell. If we're doing Saturdays then I'm not free at all on the 19th. Yeah the 19th is not even on our calendar, I'll be in the woods in Oregon in a tent that day anyway. So I'm putting him down as OK for any time on weekdays but not at all available on weekends except sunday afternoon/night is OK so really just no saturdays?
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Aug 9, 2017 02:59
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I asked him that and he said "Will you stop texting me for ten goddamn minutes while I try to gently caress my wife? For fucks sake you are annoying." I don't know if he meant that for me or you, he was unclear and has stopped responding to my repeated requests for clarification. I will try calling.
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Aug 9, 2017 03:29
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ffs whatever I'm just ready to click on stuff and move my guys around and click buttons and poo poo. I don't like drafting if it's a full moon and also I don't like drafting if mercury is in retrograde.. that really hosed me up this month.
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Aug 9, 2017 07:53
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hi sorry for being a slacker, dues sent draftwise I'll be on airplanes the 25th and the 4th. 26th through the 3rd I can probably make basically any time work - I'll be sitting on a beach with internet access. 5th/6th I could do something after probably 6 PM pacific/9 PM eastern
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Aug 10, 2017 02:22
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Got the money! Everyone has paid dues. After dinner or maybe tomorrow I'll unlock the league for drops and trades.
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Aug 10, 2017 03:16
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Teemu Pokemon posted:Gurley, Jeffery, Peterson, Diggs, and Howard would all be varying degrees of available for sure Holla atcha boy and get em while they're hot Let the rebuild commence
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Aug 10, 2017 22:15
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OK chain of thought here, follow along with me: 1. Folks want me to unlock so they can drop players and make trades 2. I should adjust the salaries for the year first, so owners know what each player really costs, and how much cap space they have, etc. 3. But we discussed earlier the possibility of rules changes, and any changes that affect salaries need to be made before I adjust salaries so, I haven't unlocked the rosters yet. I went back several pages and looked at my notes on the rules doc and made a big messy pile of notes that I am now cleaning up into a coherent set of questions about rules changes that hopefully we can whip through. But rather than do them all at once as I was planning, the first order of business is now to discuss rules changes that affect the roster size and salaries, so we can get that out of the way and I can do the salary adjustment and unlock rosters. So without further ado: A) We previously voted to add another IDP starting spot (defensive FLEX position) but the vote was only 3-2 (with linebacker having 2 votes), and 4-1 in favor of adding another bench slot if we add this additional starting player. I would like to see a stronger opinion with at least a majority of owners weighting in. So: Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? B) Currently, every player’s salary increases by the greater of $1, or 10% of their current salary rounded to the nearest whole dollar. Of course, salaries reset to zero when a player is dropped to free agency. We have previously observed that this progression is very favorable to anyone who gets a long dynasty player for a low price: for example, David Johnson can be easily kept by his current owner for his entire career without taking a serious salary cap hit. There are several potential ways of dealing with this: we could increase the progression across the board; or make an accelerating progression (e.g. year 2 players go up by 10%, year 3 by 15%, year 4 by 20%, etc.); or set salaries of kept players based on previous-year performance (e.g. WRs with 1000+ yards go up by minimum 20%; players with 6+ TDs go up by minimum 15%; or something similar); or set salaries based on player's real-world salary contracts (ugh); or create player contracts of limited durations, perhaps with a franchise tag, so for example every player has a 5-year contract, but an owner can keep one player beyond his 5-year contract by franchise tagging him, perhaps with an automatically high salary for the franchise-tagged player. So before we get into any of that let's just first ask Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? We can punt this discussion down the pipe to next summer if you want; this is only the third year of our league, after all. C) Currently the rookie/free agency draft combines all available players, and assigns salaries by default thusly: The first four picks in the first round are paid $20 The fifth through eighth picks are paid $18 The ninth through twelfth picks are paid $16 All players drafted in the second round are paid $8 All players drafted in the third round are paid $4 All players drafted in the fourth round are paid $2 All remaining drafted players (fifth and later rounds) are paid $1 These salaries are potentially poorly chosen: I pretty much picked them by gut feels and folks just agreed. But this year owners are starting to have to seriously consider dropping expensive players, and the ability to pick one back up for maybe a third of their salary at the 1.1 pick seems... maybe unfair. Some might suggest the 1.1 rookie would attract bids far higher than $20 if we were to do an auction draft. Another consideration is that we could switch to FAAB, and a third is that these (or some adjusted) numbers might be fine for rookies, but we could split out the free agents and just do a rookie draft, with free agents available only via FAAB (presumably using some of your coming-year's FAAB auction budget? Or maybe not?) So we have several options, please vote: C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? Let's get a tally of this stuff and nail it down soon. Please remember that actually all of this stuff is officially up to the commissioners to decide, but I think I speak for all two of us commissioners when I say that I want a league-wide consensus before making really big rules changes. And that reminds me: D: Please vote yes or no on Teemu Pokemon for Commissioner #3. You may submit your vote to me via PM or email if you prefer to have it be a private vote.
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Aug 10, 2017 23:19
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Completely missed the scheduling stuff, but I should be able to make most anything work so hopefully that didn't delay anything. Rookie draft should not take more than an hour anyway. As to the poll A) voting no as a preference. Another D slot doesn't look to add much in terms of roster construction or play value IMO, but if it happens then no big deal either B) Tweaks to the salary increases probably are necessary, but we are still early into a dynasty league run. Part of dynasty IS being able to get a player for cheap and hold him forever. All the same getting a DJ/AB/Leveon for $1 on a flier and having that salary increase 1 dollar each year over the next 9 IS a bit silly as well. This is probably going to be a bunch of different things to make the great players have more realistic value increases without overly changing a team strictly because a $1 flier has the value of a $50 player. C) 1 - Leave them as is except......... 2 - I think we should go the way of the NFL and do a normal in-line draft. And if the salaries adjust they should....... 3 - increase for first round talent IMO. something like $30 for first pick (year 7 salary of $57) and scaled accordingly 4 - no auction draft. This makes the guy who hits the flier $1 a couple of times own the auction, making a strong team even stronger. 5 - no separation of rookies and FAs. If anything what I said before about a drop period followed by a FAAB period (this is kind of sticky thinking about it - might be worth a try to see?) then a lockdown until draft and all non-roster players available to draft. Oh and a thought about the FAAB period - also allow practice squad poaching some time in here. D)sure thing boss!
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Aug 11, 2017 00:06
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Oh, as an aside, the rules for our taxi squads currently prohibit non-rookies: this means everyone will have to clear their taxi squads before draft, regardless, unless we change that rule.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:14
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A) Yes to 24 and defensive flex. B) Probably should adjust them. Or at least get as good of a feel for it as we can now. C5) I think a one-time FAAB before the Superbowl or during the real playoffs would be good. Then a rookie+whoever is left draft during preseason. D) Yes for commish vote. About the rookie draft... I think the salaries are good, but maybe the rooks have a 'rookie contract' and bump up if they are good in 3 years? About our salaries and studs thinking about being dropped, franchise tag and all that: Maybe dudes in Boris Chens tier1 bump 20% in salary or 5$ whichever is more. Tier 2 is 15% and so on. You have all seen that chart I assume, it's like beersheets. I have devonte freeman for $5 too, so him increasing by a dollar isn't a big deal. Bumping by 5 this year and 5 next year still doesn't hurt me but might eventually. The studs being dropped and going to 1.01 for $20 is something that could be addressed the same way. If you draft a tier1 non-rookie maybe it's $35 or So? Boris Chen is pretty good with tiers IMO, some of his WRs are reaches for tier2 or 3 imo, but it's pretty rock solid.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:17
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Leperflesh posted:OK this is how I interpreted what you said: what's your availability for the 1st? I'm in the Mountain time zone now, FYI.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:38
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I reread my post and didn't articulate it very well. Phone posting blows. Basically: have a third party tell us who the aggregated tier 1/2/3 guys are. Bump salaries accordingly based on the third party.
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Aug 11, 2017 00:55
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Do you want us to add another defensive FLEX position to the starting roster, as well as adding 1 additional player to all rosters, bringing the total regular roster size to 24? Yes and yes Do you think we should adjust our salary increase rules this year? I think the increasing scale over years would be a good idea. Not sure what that actual scale would be, but that additional 5% per year looks right at first blush. I'm okay with punting it down the line if we can't figure that out in a timely fashion C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y/N C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? Y/N C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? I think either C.4 or some combination of C.4 and C.5 (rookie snake draft with salary slots, separate FA/UDFA rookie auction draft) e: I suppose a rookie draft and a FA bidding period would be fine but not sure how I feel about that being tied to in season FAAB Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 12:38
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Thinking about it, perhaps a rookie contract "ELC" type thing might work irrespective of what we decide and might be a decent idea. I like the idea of tying them to a 3rd party "redraft" value, but having it be at a ratio that acknowledges their starting salary. Like if you drafted a rookie at 1.1 for $20 and he ended up being valued at $60 at the end of his rookie contract, your effective salary would be higher than it'd be had you drafted him in the 4th and paid $2 Not sure what that ratio is or what the 3rd party would be (a beersheet tailored to our league might be appropriate  )Also, since there aren't really standard IDP values, that presents a problem. Perhaps there, something like what you suggest about value being tied to performance might work, but that also would probably require a fair bit if research to determine appropriate performance tiers e: perhaps that ratio for rookie deals might be like "Half the difference between current salary and 3rd party salary, or a 50% increase of the current salary, whichever is higher" So for example, in the scenario I listed above, without any other changes to salary rules (rookie draft slot values remain the same, static 10% per year stays the same) this would be what that looks like: A: $20 rookie becomes $22 2nd year becomes $24 year three B: $2 rookie becomes $3 2nd becomes $3 year 3 Player is valued by 3rd party as worth $60 in year 4 A: half the difference between $24 and $60 is $18 making the salary $42, a 50% increase of $24 is an additional $12, making the salary $36 Player A's baseline salary post rookie contract is $42 B: half the difference between $3 and $60 is $29 making the salary $32, a 50% increase of $3 is $5 Player B's baseline salary post rookie contract is $32 I think something like that could work, it's just a matter of figuring out what the potential percentage increase would be vs. the difference in current and projected values Teemu Pokemon fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 12:56
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Generally, I feel like 10% is probably enough once players are 'fairly' priced -- the question is getting them there. I might say if last season you were a WR1/RB1 (/QB/TE/IDP?), the minimum should be say $8 instead of $1, and for a WR2/RB2 $4 or 5. Maybe even scaling down to $1 at WR-X. If that's even possible? That way you can get a discounted player and take advantage of that for several seasons which is sort of the point of dynasty, but they don't stay highly discounted for their entire career. That minimum actually means that even the top players are looking at more than 10% functionally, but it also pushes those that are highly discounted up into the same 'high cost' territory after a few seasons, while allowing those few seasons of success because you got the right player. A: I'd probably lean towards no on a new player, but yes on a new roster slot if one were added. B: I think it's fine to leave it for next year and have a fully thought through solution instead of rushing to do it this season. C.1: Should we just leave things as they are for now? Y C.2: Should we keep the rookie/free agent in snake format, but adjust these starting salary numbers? N C.3: If we decide to do C.2, should the salaries generally be higher, or lower, or a mix? C.4: Should we dump the snake format and switch to an auction rookie/free agent draft? N - the issue for me is giving low ranked teams something to do / look forward to. a pure auction system makes it a lot harder for those teams to come back. C.5: Irrespective of C2-4, should we separate out rookies from free agents, and just do a rookie draft, with free agents dealt with via FAAB? Yes, separate them out, but maybe have it be bidding that doesn't come from the seasonlong FAAB pool in one window? Zauper fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 15:41
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The issue I have with seperating the non-rooks out from the rookie draft is that our 5th pick last year was Coby Fleener right? Or 4th? It was something where he'd be $20. The need was so great for that person at that draft pick they wanted Coby Fleener. Colby? I dunno. That adds an element to the rookie draft that I've always liked.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:09
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Jordan Matthews to the Bills. Watkins to the Rams.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:58
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Spermy Smurf posted:The issue I have with seperating the non-rooks out from the rookie draft is that our 5th pick last year was Coby Fleener right? Or 4th? It was something where he'd be $20. Is that worth the downside of someone getting a top-end performing player for $20? Maybe it is if there is a yearly adjustment that works.
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Aug 11, 2017 19:09
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