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The hamster wheel in Trump's mind is turning: "starting a war is the only way I get reelected". It won't enjoy majority support but he doesn't need that.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:40
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Jaxyon posted:I would definitely help them, were I Putin, because it's not exactly hard to see Trump doing exactly the thing he has done. Proliferation is bad for everyone. If Russia was actually helping North Korea, it wouldn't be the first time someone cynically played that game, but giving an unstable-seeming regime nukes help maturing their nuclear program for the purposes of pushing them into a confrontation with the US would be crazy reckless, and China might not appreciate the rising tensions in their backyard.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:40
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We're basically now in a test of who is crazier.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:40
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I feel like nuclear weapons are a thing incompatible in a feudal era of deranged monarchs which makes it worse that Trump and Kim are both man children insulated from reality their entire live. They had horse back cavalry against machine guns because people in charge were too backwards to comprehend the disaster of misusing advanced weaponry.Sinteres posted:Trump's body language wasn't really very aggressive. He looked defensive, but a lunatic inexperienced president feeling cornered into action isn't ultimately any better than one who wants it. I thought he was shooting for this. 
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Aug 9, 2017 01:41
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Krispy Kareem posted:North Korea doesn’t have an H-bomb. They tested something similar to one, but it’s very unlikely they’d be able to put that on a missile. Which in ‘getting nuked’ terms is about as good as you’re going to get. If they launch a nuke, the regime goes one way or another. We have to maintain our deterrence too, and letting some shitass country that's barely a nuclear power get away with nuclear blackmail would be worse than anything they could do.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:41
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Hollismason posted:We're basically now in a test of who is crazier. evergreen post
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Aug 9, 2017 01:42
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Krispy Kareem posted:North Korea doesn’t have an H-bomb. They tested something similar to one, but it’s very unlikely they’d be able to put that on a missile. Which in ‘getting nuked’ terms is about as good as you’re going to get. the response would not be proportionate. the response would be aimed at destroying any ability to launch another one, and the north korean government. if the response is aimed at also kiling civilians in revenge is a seperate question, but "proportionate" suggests we'd send one nuke back and then ask if they were ready to stop. we wouldn't, once they launch a nuclear weapon there's no going back to peace and the overriding goal is to win, and to win fast enough that no other nukes get launched.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:42
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I also just want to point out that Kim Jong Un is like literally half Trump's age and grew up in a completely different environment that basically pre-ordained him as a living god to his people. Trump took a lot longer and weirder path to get where he is today but unlike Kim Jon Un his people don't all but un-ironically adore him en masse. It's just a weird state for the world to be in, like a man baby that is about 7 months older (???? I mean nobody actually has verified when he was born other than it was probably some time between early 1982 and 1984) than I am is currently getting under the skin of and intimidating the 71 year old man baby leader of the free world.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:43
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Jaxyon posted:Good times, we are all gonna die. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W7-ngmO_p8
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Aug 9, 2017 01:45
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Sneakster posted:I feel like nuclear weapons are a thing incompatible in a feudal era of deranged monarchs which makes it worse that Trump and Kim are both man children insulated from reality their entire live. They had horse back cavalry against machine guns because people in charge were too backwards to comprehend the disaster of misusing advanced weaponry. Kim is far less insulated than Trump, Kim at least will probably die if he starts a nuclear war. Trump will almost certainly live.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:45
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D1Sergo posted:I am 100% certain that neither Trump nor our military command structure believes this or cares. To be fair, MAD game theory pretty much requires a vindictive strike. If the response was proportional, MAD would no longer deter based on the nuclear taboo.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:47
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Majorian posted:I'm not 100% certain that's how it would play out. They know that nuking Seoul would kill a lot of American servicemen and women, which would probably lead to a much worse reprisal from the U.S. The point of the nukes are if the regime is going down to take some other people with them. If we're already bombing them kim jong un is hosed and will probably want to do the biggest gently caress you possible.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:47
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Kale posted:I also just want to point out that Kim Jong Un is like literally half Trump's age and grew up in a completely different environment that basically pre-ordained him as a living god to his people. Trump took a lot longer and weirder path to get where he is today but unlike Kim Jon Un his people don't all but un-ironically adore him en masse. It's just a weird state for the world to be in, like a man baby that is about 7 months older (???? I mean nobody actually has verified when he was born other than it was probably some time between early 1982 and 1984) than I am is currently getting under the skin of and intimidating the 71 year old man baby leader of the free world. I like to point out all the "living god" stuff is North Korea fan fiction that is all easy to look up as stuff made up because people like sensational stories about North Korea.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:48
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[quote="“evilweasel”" post="“475172715”"] the response would not be proportionate. the response would be aimed at destroying any ability to launch another one, and the north korean government. if the response is aimed at also kiling civilians in revenge is a seperate question, but “proportionate” suggests we’d send one nuke back and then ask if they were ready to stop. we wouldn’t, once they launch a nuclear weapon there’s no going back to peace and the overriding goal is to win, and to win fast enough that no other nukes get launched. [/quote] Man, that’s going to get ugly fast. Imagine tactical nukes on a 2 million strong army that has no means of defending itself. I’d be shocked if at least one nuke isn’t dialed in on that ugly rear end hotel in the capital.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:49
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Sinteres posted:Trump's body language wasn't really very aggressive. He looked defensive, but a lunatic inexperienced president feeling cornered into action isn't ultimately any better than one who wants it. I only caught a glance on the TV, but was he holding/hugging himself the whole time?
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Aug 9, 2017 01:49
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Krispy Kareem posted:Man, that’s going to get ugly fast. Imagine tactical nukes on a 2 million strong army that has no means of defending itself. Dude, do you know how hard it is to aim a nuke at the otherside of the planet? North Korea can't nuke D.C. Hitting California is a stretch.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:50
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Krispy Kareem posted:I’d be shocked if at least one nuke isn’t dialed in on that ugly rear end hotel in the capital.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:51
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/404926289569939456
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Aug 9, 2017 01:51
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Covok posted:Dude, do you know how hard it is to aim a nuke at the otherside of the planet? North Korea can't nuke D.C. Hitting California is a stretch. You made me think of Trump going "Yeah but Mattis I've been reading online that the world is actually flat"
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Aug 9, 2017 01:52
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PhazonLink posted:I only caught a glance on the TV, but was he holding/hugging himself the whole time? Yeah, it's weird. I don't know how to read him here at all really, he's just so far outside presidential that it's impossible to know when to take him seriously or not. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/895006061198848000
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Aug 9, 2017 01:52
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"new york isn't the capital of america" gently caress you we all know that to be a lie
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Aug 9, 2017 01:52
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Data Graham posted:This is amazing https://twitter.com/eemershon/status/895031211256631296
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Aug 9, 2017 01:53
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Covok posted:Dude, do you know how hard it is to aim a nuke at the otherside of the planet? North Korea can't nuke D.C. Hitting California is a stretch. It sometimes still surprises me just how drat much of the Earth's surface area is the Pacific Ocean. Stupid Eurocentric cartography.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:53
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Covok posted:Dude, do you know how hard it is to aim a nuke at the otherside of the planet? North Korea can't nuke D.C. Hitting California is a stretch. 
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Aug 9, 2017 01:53
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mdemone posted:It sometimes still surprises me just how drat much of the Earth's surface area is the Pacific Ocean. Don't worry, the Pacific is shrinking.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:54
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The odds are is that even if North Korea did fire missile they'd probably nuke Mexico by accident.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:56
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Dude, the pacific ocean is loving huge. They might be able to hit it, but that's a long travel time and gives us a lot of time to use our old anti-USSR defense network to shoot it down. mdemone posted:It sometimes still surprises me just how drat much of the Earth's surface area is the Pacific Ocean. Exactly dude. The pacific ocean is loving huge as poo poo. Firing a missile over it is no laughing matter for a military using WW2 tech.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:56
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Aug 9, 2017 01:57
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Covok posted:Dude, the pacific ocean is loving huge. They might be able to hit it, but that's a long travel time and gives us a lot of time to use our old anti-USSR defense network to shoot it down. Hint: the person you originally quote was clearly talking about the US nuking the famously incomplete hotel in NK.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:57
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So the fate of East Asia literally rests in the hands of whatever the hell Trump tweets next? If his next tweet is also aggressive, would, say, Japan get flattened?
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Aug 9, 2017 01:58
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Trabisnikof posted:Hint: the person you originally quote was clearly talking about the US nuking the famously incomplete hotel in NK. I am a loving retard. You know, I had a feeling that might be what they meant, but ignored it like an idiot.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:59
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mdemone posted:It sometimes still surprises me just how drat much of the Earth's surface area is the Pacific Ocean. It is nice though that the other side of the prime meridian cuts only across the farthest eastern stretch of Russia and Antarctica.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:59
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Jesus 
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Aug 9, 2017 01:59
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They don't actually have a ICBM with a Nuke though they have a test right.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:59
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Stairmaster posted:The point of the nukes are if the regime is going down to take some other people with them. If we're already bombing them kim jong un is hosed and will probably want to do the biggest gently caress you possible. The point of his nukes are to keep the Kim's in power. NK getting nukes was their best move to insure survival of the Kim family. Although their tech build was bad. (Shoulda went ICBM before nukes)What can anyone do about? You literally have to wait until he uses them before you can do anything militarily. Trump has placed himself between a rock and a hard place. As far as Russia giving them nuke/military tech, I wouldnt doubt it. Its super wreckless, but up until recently trying to execute a regime change in countries with nuclear capabilities was deemed extremely wreckless, so I definitely don't put it past them.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:00
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I want to see someone make a fan game of Metal Gear Solid where NK is making a POS Rex from the Rex blueprints that Occelot leaked.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:00
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it was funny before, the the "chicken little" routine is now getting oldGrouchio posted:So the fate of East Asia literally rests in the hands of whatever the hell Trump tweets next? unless trump tweets out, "invading north korea in five minutes," no the situation is more complicated than that
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Aug 9, 2017 02:01
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Paradoxish posted:My problem is that I can't really see a situation where NK is the aggressor in any conflict or a direct threat to their neighbors beyond the usual bullshit. Even with a nuclear deterrent, there's still a limit to how much they can get away with. Russia could walk all over Ukraine because nobody was willing to fight a war with Russia over them, but the US won't stand by if NK in some way directly threatens SK or Japan. I don't understand how NK having a few nuclear weapons actually changes that situation. The U.S. was also totally committed to NATO. If North Korea officially joins the MAD club I wouldn't be surprised if Tokyo follows.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:01
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:When Hannity takes a stand Good job admitting that you're a petty douchebag, Sean
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Aug 9, 2017 02:01
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Stairmaster posted:The point of the nukes are if the regime is going down to take some other people with them. If we're already bombing them kim jong un is hosed and will probably want to do the biggest gently caress you possible. There are such a thing as surgical strikes, you know. Far more likely is that the U.S. strikes important parts of the North Korean nuclear program, they respond with something provocative but short of a nuclear strike, and then their nuclear program goes deeper underground and they continue developing it.
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Aug 9, 2017 02:01
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