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Hamshot posted:Guilliman was interesting for 0.3 of a second when he was all "Why did they wake me, have I not done enough to earn death?" but then he proceeded to win 100% of battles and save 100% of dudes and be just far too reasonable and infallible and uninteresting. Or waking up and being all "Wait what the gently caress have you idiots done to the Imperium?" and, instead of going full Jesus flipping tables, he just says "oh it's okay i'll make it better".
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Aug 9, 2017 14:18
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Hamshot posted:Guilliman was interesting for 0.3 of a second when he was all "Why did they wake me, have I not done enough to earn death?" but then he proceeded to win 100% of battles and save 100% of dudes and be just far too reasonable and infallible and uninteresting. Yeah that's my general feeling on it. The parts where he agonizes over the Emperor's current state and the state of the Imperium are interesting, but there's never any real conflict, even on a smaller scale. Everyone knows Guilliman isn't going to die (again) soon, so the least they can do is create real stakes by showing that there are worlds that weren't immediately saved and that hey, maybe a single primaris marine does die here and there.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:20
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They have this problem with Space Marine fiction in general. Rynn's World was the same.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:34
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TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah that's my general feeling on it. The parts where he agonizes over the Emperor's current state and the state of the Imperium are interesting, but there's never any real conflict, even on a smaller scale. Everyone knows Guilliman isn't going to die (again) soon, so the least they can do is create real stakes by showing that there are worlds that weren't immediately saved and that hey, maybe a single primaris marine does die here and there. To be fair, GW can't really run around killing off main characters they're trying to sell as expensive plastic dollies. Hell even Creed being written out had a easy loophole to bring him back after 100 years of story progression, and Eldrad was flat out retconned. So the end result is that every named character has unbreakable plot armour, and they take turns fighting each other like some kids TV cartoon where everything is reset at the end of the story ready for next week's episode. The only exceptions we get are immortal Daemon characters who can be banished and return after a quick holiday in the warp.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:35
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Unfortunately when they did try killing a character people really didn't like it.
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Aug 9, 2017 14:43
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 Makari the Lucky Grot, gone but not forgotten 
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Aug 9, 2017 14:46
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xtothez posted:To be fair, GW can't really run around killing off main characters they're trying to sell as expensive plastic dollies. Hell even Creed being written out had a easy loophole to bring him back after 100 years of story progression, and Eldrad was flat out retconned. There's clearly some wiggle room, as we've had some turnover at the tops of the non-Ultramarine chapters recently. It's definitely a problem to have character rules tied to models in that regard, but my larger point is that it isn't a problem that Guilliman can't die, but rather that he also can't ever lose.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:09
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:SRM's first against the wall! Uroboros and I will fistfight ALL OF YOU (I like Ultramarines a bunch but I think Guilliman playing Superman and saving the day for everyone is a bit much) kommisar posted:I'm working on an all 2nd/3rd ed era metal Imperial Guard army. It's mostly a mix of Cadians and Catachans and it's going to be heavy as gently caress to carry around. I'm weird in that I'm partial to and actually enjoy working with metal. I've been slowly picking stuff up when I can get it cheaply on ebay. This is all wip stuff as I'm only good at starting things and never actually finishing. This is so my poo poo right here. I love those old Ogryns. Added to the second post
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Aug 9, 2017 15:15
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Questions about melee combat. Let's say the above combat is happening - 5 Harlequin Troupe Members vs 20 Tyranid Hormagaunts, in ranks of 5 for simplicity. Now, it says in the rule book that the first two ranks of hormagaunts can make attacks as they are either within 1" of an enemy unit, or within 1" of a model that is within 1" of an enemy unit. However it doesn't say anything about if those two ranks are the only valid targets to receive attacks. As a Harlequin Troupe member has 4 attacks each, can they potentially cause a wound on all of the 20 Hormagaunts, or would they only be able to deal wounds to models within the first two ranks? If it is that you can have an effect on the entire unit, then when removing models that receive wounds, can they be pulled from anywhere in the unit or does it have to start with models next to the enemy (i.e. if my CSM Aspiring Champion and a marine with a plasma gun are the only models in the unit within 1" of an enemy unit and I take 2 wounds, can I pull randos off the back of the squad or does the champ and plasma guy have to be pulled off the board)?
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Aug 9, 2017 15:32
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I wanted to find some Rough Riders for an IG buddy who just got back in after bouncing from 7th's shitshow, but alternatives seem to be the best way to fill that in. Victoria Lamb should have some bitchin' horses, but doesn't. Pegasus Games has so much poo poo it's impossible to navigate it all, but then I found it was too small for 40k anyway. I'm usually up on alternative model sites like Hydracast (gently caress yeah Deathlurker  ), but I can't find a decent grimdark WWI cavalry model. Endless suggestions online for just slapping Cadians on Cold Ones, but that would really clash with his army's aesthetic. Does anyone have a sure-fire recipe, or even a motorcycle alt mini Cadians can ride?Geoff Zahn posted:Questions about melee combat. We've been playing it as you just kill the other dudes out of melee range. Proletariat Beowulf fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 15:33
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Geoff Zahn posted:Questions about melee combat. The Harlies can kill any member of the unit, and as the Tyranid player you can pull them from anywhere in the unit, so you can take off the back rank if you want to. Also note that if lined up like that, the third rank of Hormagaunts can fight as well, because they're within 1" of the first rank (a 25mm base is less than 1"). Someone (Post 9-11 User?) mentioned that the fourth rank could fight as well but I can't remember why. e: It's because the requirement is "be within 1" of a model which is itself within 1"" which means the 4th rank hormies are in 1" of the 2nd rank hormies and therefore all 20 could fight.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:43
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Geoff Zahn posted:Questions about melee combat. Assuming all those hormagaunts are in the same unit, the Tyranid player decides where to take casualties from, and they do not have to be anyway related to what models were actually hit.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:44
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The opponent allocates wounds and can put them on whoever they want, doesn't matter where they are. Wounds are never lost to range in this edition. At the start of a round of shooting/combat you pick targets and measure ranges for every weapon, then you roll for damage for each weapon and remove models. If you had a unit of 4 with Kisses and one clown with a Caress, and the Kisses killed everyone within 2" of the Caress, you'd even still get to attack with the Caress, as long as it was engaged after the Pile In.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:47
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Geoff Zahn posted:Let's say the above combat is happening - 5 Harlequin Troupe Members vs 20 Tyranid Hormagaunts, in ranks of 5 for simplicity. Now, it says in the rule book that the first two ranks of hormagaunts can make attacks as they are either within 1" of an enemy unit, or within 1" of a model that is within 1" of an enemy unit. However it doesn't say anything about if those two ranks are the only valid targets to receive attacks. As a Harlequin Troupe member has 4 attacks each, can they potentially cause a wound on all of the 20 Hormagaunts, or would they only be able to deal wounds to models within the first two ranks? The owning player for the unit chooses which models wounds get allocated to, and there's specifically no restriction on range or LoS. If he wanted the Tyrand player could allocate 10 wounds starting at the back row, allowing the front Hormas to get their attacks in. Or he can choose to allocate from the front and possibly end the melee after the Harlequins have attacked.
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Aug 9, 2017 15:47
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:I wanted to find some Rough Riders for an IG buddy who just got back in after bouncing from 7th's shitshow, but alternatives seem to be the best way to fill that in. Victoria Lamb should have some bitchin' horses, but doesn't. Pegasus Games has so much poo poo it's impossible to navigate it all, but then I found it was too small for 40k anyway. I'm usually up on alternative model sites like Hydracast (gently caress yeah Deathlurker Some people use the Freeguild Outriders/Pistoliers from the Fantasy/Age of Sigmar range and stick Cadian torsos on the legs there: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Empire-Pistoliers
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Aug 9, 2017 15:50
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:I wanted to find some Rough Riders for an IG buddy who just got back in after bouncing from 7th's shitshow, but alternatives seem to be the best way to fill that in. Victoria Lamb should have some bitchin' horses, but doesn't. Pegasus Games has so much poo poo it's impossible to navigate it all, but then I found it was too small for 40k anyway. I'm usually up on alternative model sites like Hydracast (gently caress yeah Deathlurker
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Aug 9, 2017 15:58
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Thank you for the clarification dudes! LOS also applies to shooting I take it, where if you resolve bolter shots before plasma in a squad, and the bolters kill all within sight, the plasma can still cause wounds? For the third rank of hormagaunts to be able to attack, the bases -as they are slightly smaller than 1" - would have to be directly touching each other and the enemy, soooo I'm probably not gonna let my friend know about that because as a lovely powergamer he'd probably remodel his nids to be doing handstands so that nothing hangs over the side of a base 
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Aug 9, 2017 16:00
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:I wanted to find some Rough Riders for an IG buddy who just got back in after bouncing from 7th's shitshow, but alternatives seem to be the best way to fill that in. Victoria Lamb should have some bitchin' horses, but doesn't. Pegasus Games has so much poo poo it's impossible to navigate it all, but then I found it was too small for 40k anyway. I'm usually up on alternative model sites like Hydracast (gently caress yeah Deathlurker Space marine scouts are another way to go if you want motorcycle dudes. 
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Aug 9, 2017 16:03
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That's a cool conversion.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:04
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Geoff Zahn posted:Thank you for the clarification dudes! LOS also applies to shooting I take it, where if you resolve bolter shots before plasma in a squad, and the bolters kill all within sight, the plasma can still cause wounds? Yeah. The process is: 1) Check LoS - if you have line of sight now, then you don't need to check again 2) Check range - if you're in range now, then you don't need to check again Rolling bolters before plasmas or whatever is just about ease of rolling, it doesn't change the order of operations.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:18
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Corrode posted:Played another game of 8th last night. Forgot storm bolters are Rapid Fire 2 like a fool. Now I'm wondering about getting 10 sternguard with storm bolters and putting bolter drill on them.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:25
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Obvious segway rough rider joke 
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Aug 9, 2017 16:26
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kommisar posted:I'm working on an all 2nd/3rd ed era metal Imperial Guard army. It's mostly a mix of Cadians and Catachans and it's going to be heavy as gently caress to carry around. I'm weird in that I'm partial to and actually enjoy working with metal. I've been slowly picking stuff up when I can get it cheaply on ebay. This is all wip stuff as I'm only good at starting things and never actually finishing. Oh hey great choice! I got a fairly large 2nd ed imperial guard cadian army. Also managed to get 9 3rd era ogryns. Not a huge fan of the 2nd era ogryns. Got a large backlog to paint for them but so much new stuff...
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Aug 9, 2017 16:27
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Corrode posted:Yeah. The process is: Cool, just wanted to double check. I've had so many questions thrown at me from the guys I'm teaching I wanted to make sure I had it down correctly. Thanks everyone!
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Aug 9, 2017 16:30
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chutche2 posted:Now I'm wondering about getting 10 sternguard with storm bolters and putting bolter drill on them. Would storm bolters be affected by that frankly terrifying strategem that gives Sternguard +1 to wound?
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Aug 9, 2017 16:31
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Pendent posted:Would storm bolters be affected by that frankly terrifying strategem that gives Sternguard +1 to wound? No, only the "special issue boltguns" they come with normally.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:32
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JoshTheStampede posted:No, only the "special issue boltguns" they come with normally. Yeah, I thought so. I'm hoping my Blood Angels get that strategem too- I'll be painting all my tactical marines up as Sterngard if that's the case. It would really fit the fluff that any survivors of the Tyranid would be considered veterans.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:36
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Yeah you'd be missing out on that stratagem but who has the CP to burn like that? Anyway, the numbers say that 4 AP0 shots are equal to 2 AP-2 shots vs 3+ save, and the storm bolter is better against 4+ and worse. AP-2 is better vs 2+ saves.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:36
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You could potentially be wounding a rhino on 4's with ap-2 bolter fire. You'd have to sort of build your army around it but I can see some huge potential.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:39
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chutche2 posted:Now I'm wondering about getting 10 sternguard with storm bolters and putting bolter drill on them. It's a cheap way to run them and 10 dudes pumping out 40 shots with Bolter Drill is decent, you'll trigger another 6-7 shots on average. 30 hits is a decent way towards evaporating some infantry. Only problem is getting them somewhere that they'd be in range to use it.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:40
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Pendent posted:You could potentially be wounding a rhino on 4's with ap-2 bolter fire. You'd have to sort of build your army around it but I can see some huge potential. Yeah you can do that, for one phase with one unit for 1 damage per shot. Yeah you can do it but unless you've got a brigade you're not going to have the CP to spare, considering all the 2 and 3 CP stratagems we have like chapter master, orbital strike, attacking twice in melee, letting a character fight when they die, etc. Between that and rerolls it's super hard to justify burning CP on things that have a fairly minor impact on the overall course of the game. If they have a chance to rapid fire a warlord for some reason then hell yeah, pop that command point. But for a rhino? Rather than spend it on sternguard I'm going to spend it to reroll my lascannons. I'm usually out of CP by turn 3, I run a battalion and a vanguard or spearhead detachment for 7 CP. And yeah bolter drill is an even smaller impact, it was just a joke. Only time I'd consider using bolter drill is maybe on a full unit of inceptors for those S5 AP-1 shots. But I think storm bolter sternguard could be legit. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 16:41
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chutche2 posted:Yeah you can do that, for one phase with one unit for 1 damage per shot. Yeah you can do it but unless you've got a brigade you're not going to have the CP to spare, considering all the 2 and 3 CP stratagems we have like chapter master, orbital strike, attacking twice in melee, letting a character fight when they die, etc. Between that and rerolls it's super hard to justify burning CP on things that have a fairly minor impact on the overall course of the game. If they have a chance to rapid fire a warlord for some reason then hell yeah, pop that command point. But for a rhino? A rhino is just an example. There's a lot of nasty stuff out there that's toughness 7 though- like most vehicles, really. Even with only one damage per shot, rapid firing a full squad of Sternguard into a t7 model would average just under 15 hits, and just over 7 ap-2 wounds. Maybe you won't be using it every game but that can be enough to make a huge difference. The way I see the new strategems is that you really to think about which ones you want to use ahead of time and build your army to take advantage of them. To me, if you want to take Sternguard it's definitely worth thinking about trying to maximize the use of this particular strategem but ultimately it's really situational. I love that the strategems provide so much flexibility. Pendent fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 16:51
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Pendent posted:A rhino is just an example. There's a lot of nasty stuff out there that's toughness 7 though- like most vehicles, really. Even with only one damage per shot, rapid firing a full squad of Sternguard into a t7 model would average just under 15 hits, and just over 7 ap-2 wounds. Maybe you won't be using it every game but that can be enough to make a huge difference. Sure, but if I'm running with 6 or 7 CP, can I afford to spend it to give a unit of sternguard 2 extra wounds vs a T7 target? If it was going from 0 to 6.6 wounds that would make a difference, but you're going from like 4.5 to 6.6 wounds that they still get a 5+ save against. For that same CP you could spend it on a hellfire shell for d3 mortal wounds, which is one of the most legit 1cp stratagems imo.
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Aug 9, 2017 16:56
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Yeah I forgot about both Hellfire Shells and Honour of the Chapter last night and both would have been clutch. I finished with like 5 CPs.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:04
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Man, SM bikes are a dime a dozen, but it's rare to come across Scout Bikes. I take it the latter are weedier so fit Cadians better? I think we're going to grab some for my buddy and convert ratling spears into melta lances or whatever.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:06
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Yeah. I think the best 1cp stratagems are hellfire shells, cluster mines, killshot, and armour of contempt. Maybe flakk missiles too but I dunno. The others are questionable, and cluster mines rarely come up. Strike from the Shadows is probably the best of the 1cp chapter tactics. But some of the big ticket ones like honor the chapter, orbital strike, and only in death does duty end can have a huge impact on the game and I try to save my CP for those. I've only got 6 or 7 so one of those is almost half my pool. The rulebook 2cp one to interrupt a charger also gets used at least once a game and can be hugely important. And really, few of the 1cp stratagems compare to rerolling the exact moment you need a reroll. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 17:08
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Man, SM bikes are a dime a dozen, but it's rare to come across Scout Bikes. I take it the latter are weedier so fit Cadians better? I think we're going to grab some for my buddy and convert ratling spears into melta lances or whatever. I don't think I've ever seen Scout Bikes on the table. They're just a bit poo poo. They would look great with Cadians though, the SM ones are too chunky.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:11
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JoshTheStampede posted:I meant that no one really stans for them fluffwise. You would be wrong. chutche2 posted:Sure, but if I'm running with 6 or 7 CP, can I afford to spend it to give a unit of sternguard 2 extra wounds vs a T7 target? If it was going from 0 to 6.6 wounds that would make a difference, but you're going from like 4.5 to 6.6 wounds that they still get a 5+ save against. For that same CP you could spend it on a hellfire shell for d3 mortal wounds, which is one of the most legit 1cp stratagems imo. I have to agree heavily here. Hellfire shells basically turn your Heavy Bolters into a smite that can hit any target, which is pretty badass.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:14
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:Space marine scouts are another way to go if you want motorcycle dudes. I'll need to take photos when I get home from this work trip but I did exactly this, and highly recommend it. Here's my basic build order: Take 2 boxes of Space maring scout squads, clip off the fenders, footwells, and frontal armor Pick up the weapons arms and bits from a chaos maraurader regiment, and all the extra cadian/catachan you can find Strip down the bikes as much as possible, throw on a bunch of backpacks, supplies and extra weapons, slice off IG hands and put the maruader weapons in their place. I'm in the US and sourced all my bits from eBay and the GW site. Scout bikes are hard to get your hands on in some markets, but you should generally be able to get 6-7 bikers from this build model for around 90 bucks. Cheaper if you maintain a well stocked cast offs bin. I'd really recommend building the bikers and the bikes separately, maintaining only the Scout legs from the original kit, maybe a few of the heads. If you hate the Scout bikes, I think Maxmini.Eu has new bikes on the market. Immanentized fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 9, 2017 |
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Aug 9, 2017 17:17
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Corrode posted:I don't think I've ever seen Scout Bikes on the table. They're just a bit poo poo. They would look great with Cadians though, the SM ones are too chunky. Right, since Cadians are aready 3-4mm shorter than marines you do notice. The guy I posted a bit up the page has the scout biker legs and handlebar arm, with a cadian torso and chainsword arm from the command squad box. I also left off the bike-mounted bolters and trimmed down the front fender quite a bit. I think for the special weapon guys I would mount the gun on the bike, putting either laspistols or CCW's on the rest of them instead of lances (since each dude comes with all three by default).
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Aug 9, 2017 17:20
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