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GreyjoyBastard posted:yes, we know, you'd rather have GOP senators than conservative Democratic senators I'd rather they not express any support for the wall at all. That should kind of be agreed upon universally by Democrats IMO. e: I'm kind of amazed that's controversial with anyone here. I'm not saying, "Don't vote Tester or Murray"; I'm saying, "Don't say that, what's the matter with you?" Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:22
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I had genuinely no idea even the dumbest Trump supporters thought the wall was still going to happen
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Aug 10, 2017 00:24
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Majorian posted:I'd rather they not express any support for the wall at all. That should kind of be agreed upon universally by Democrats IMO. Its controversial to you that someone said maybe there some good places to build a wall. Unfortunately for you that position is soo far out of mainstream political thought.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:27
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It feels lIke the eve of the Hiroshima bombing. The level of understanding we had as to the psychology of the actors in japan, the prevailing Japanese sentiment, etc, were just primitive and racist and had no real informative value. I always thought the great tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that our information was so poor as the to what Japan wanted and could tolerate that we can never really argue with full confidence it was right or necessary. And here we are, again, staring down a regional actor we are equipped to annihilate at horrifying cost, a weird isolated, bad actor state. And again, at least on the level of public discourse, we are better policed but so poorly informed. I have no confidence this administration knows or cares to know much of anything, and I doubt they have much better information than the public at large actually in their heads. But even now so many years away, no one wants to look up to the challenge of not relying on overwhelming force stacked on force to solve human problems we refuse to seriously engage with or underdtand in human terms.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:27
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Low Desert Punk posted:I had genuinely no idea even the dumbest Trump supporters thought the wall was still going to happen I know we joked like 8 months ago about it but I seriously expect Trump to just take credit for the walls/fence that is already there and claim that he kept his promise.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:27
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Low Desert Punk posted:I had genuinely no idea even the dumbest Trump supporters thought the wall was still going to happen A non-zero number of Trump supporters that think construction is well underway, or that the wall is already complete. I'd link the poll but I can't find it now.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:28
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Despera posted:Its controversial to you that someone said maybe there some good places to build a wall. Unfortunately for you that position is soo far out of mainstream political thought. I think border security and having a fence/wall in some places makes sense. Ensuring that non-state actors can't easily smuggle WMD material into the U.S. is an important issue to me. But a fence/wall already exists in most of those places. That's not what those two senators are talking about. They're talking about Trump's wall.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:29
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Despera posted:So there are 1400 miles of natural barriers? Mmmkay the more likely a place is to see attempted illegal crossings, the more likely it is that we have A) a wall, B) a checkpoint, or C) both like duh the places that we don't have a wall are the places where it would be least cost effective as a deterrent measure for various reasons - Hellishly inconvenient to effectively impossible to travel across on foot (ie what you're referencing) - Hellishly inconvenient to staff with officers to prevent, you know, people just climbing your fancy wall - Would cause significant environmental problems - Experimentation with cheaper mechanisms (electronic surveillance of the big empty buffer areas being cheaper than a fancy wall) Montana Guy's statement is trivially correct - if we evaluate that a wall expansion would be cost effective but hasn't been done yet because they ran out of money on the places that are more cost effective, then sure, build more wall but most to all of the low hanging fruit has been walled
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Aug 10, 2017 00:31
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Blitz7x posted:Everyone take a deep breath, close your eyes and try to imagine Trump attempting to de-escalate the situation after NK launches a warning missile at Guam That guy doesn't know the first thing about deescalating anything. There's zero sign he's even remotely capable of such a concept. He only knows the big loud rear end in a top hat schtick and how to spew rhetoric and bile. Again for some reason America decided to make the equivalent of your average poo poo spewing forum troll it's leader and representation to the world. That's the part that'll stick with me after thus experiment is over and that it'd probably vote any given celebrity into any sort of public office regardless of qualification again Kale fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:34
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Majorian posted:I think border security and having a fence/wall in some places makes sense. Ensuring that non-state actors can't easily smuggle WMD material into the U.S. is an important issue to me. But a fence/wall already exists in most of those places. That's not what those two senators are talking about. They're talking about Trump's wall. Counterpoint: based on the Senator statement you're responding to, your argument comes across as "Trump has said he wants to build his big dumb border wall, therefore we should absolutely under no circumstances be okay with building walls anywhere including the remaining non-dumb places". Because that's what Tester is explicitly saying: he's willing to listen to arguments about places where the big dumb wall is less dumb, and perhaps even smart.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:35
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Maybe we shouldn't have spent the last 30 years glorifying weapons of mass destruction. Some good old fashioned nuclear attack drills that have kids impotently hiding under their desks would do a lot to quench the bloodlust
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Aug 10, 2017 00:36
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No way man we need to create more unmanned wall segments along the middle of nowhere. That poo poo works. They'd have to be god drat geniuses to get past 15 feet of concrete in gently caress all nowhere. As long as our enemies haven't teched past the bronze age and don't have explosive units we can wall them off and that poo poo is secure.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:36
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GreyjoyBastard posted:the more likely a place is to see attempted illegal crossings, the more likely it is that we have A) a wall, B) a checkpoint, or C) both I honestly don't understand why his answer wasn't something along the lines of, "I believe in border security, I believe in having some parts of the border protected by a wall or fence. But I'm not for this inhumane atrocity that Trump is proposing."
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Aug 10, 2017 00:36
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https://twitter.com/igorvolsky/status/895356525266522112
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Aug 10, 2017 00:36
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I finally saw the video of Trumps nk comments and it makes it so much worse. It is like a random outburst.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:37
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Maybe we shouldn't have spent the last 30 years glorifying weapons of mass destruction. Have we been glorifying WMDs? While the lessons of the Cold War might be fading away in peoples' minds, the years since then have been spent on massive armament drawdowns, platform retirements (Peacekeeper ICBM), and capsule crew scandals.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:37
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Randbrick posted:No way man we need to create more unmanned wall segments along the middle of nowhere. That poo poo works. They'd have to be god drat geniuses to get past 15 feet of concrete in gently caress all nowhere. As long as our enemies haven't teched past the bronze age and don't have explosive units we can wall them off and that poo poo is secure. The people who believe the wall will actually solve a problem that exists are so stupid they might actually, literally think that Mexico has not reached the "rope/ladder" level of technological advancement, or are themselves not aware of how one might scale a wall.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:39
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I finally saw the video of Trumps nk comments and it makes it so much worse. It is like a random outburst. A president who hug he own self. A shameful president.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:39
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I finally saw the video of Trumps nk comments and it makes it so much worse. It is like a random outburst. He had the body posture of every child being dragged somewhere they didn't want to be. Arms crossed looking down and to the side.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:40
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Majorian posted:I honestly don't understand why his answer wasn't something along the lines of, "I believe in border security, I believe in having some parts of the border protected by a wall or fence. But I'm not for this inhumane atrocity that Trump is proposing." Trump hasnt proposed poo poo though.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:40
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Majorian posted:I honestly don't understand why his answer wasn't something along the lines of, "I believe in border security, I believe in having some parts of the border protected by a wall or fence. But I'm not for this inhumane atrocity that Trump is proposing." Why do you think you understand Montana politics better than someone who won a state wide election there?
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Aug 10, 2017 00:42
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Calling something a inhumane atrocity before, i dunno it exists isnt the greatest position.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:42
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Despera posted:Trump hasnt proposed poo poo though. If you read the Politico article that I cited (and Leon quoted from), you'll see that he's trying to make funding it part of a deal to avoid a government shutdown. Xae posted:Why do you think you understand Montana politics better than someone who won a state wide election there? Because I'm not so deluded as to think that him hemming and hawing on a seriously racist pet project of Trump's will win him any "moderate Republican" votes. Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Aug 10, 2017 |
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Aug 10, 2017 00:43
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Majorian posted:If you read the Politico article that I cited (and Leon quoted from), you'll see that he's trying to make funding it part of a deal to avoid a government shutdown. How hard is it to point out something you call an "inhumane monstrosity"?
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Aug 10, 2017 00:44
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Aug 10, 2017 00:44
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Despera posted:So there are 1400 miles of natural barriers? Mmmkay Yes, it's called rape hungry coyotes.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:44
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Xae posted:Why do you think you understand Montana politics better than someone who won a state wide election there? Because under every montana republican is a communist who lusts for open borders.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:44
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Majorian posted:If you read the Politico article that I cited (and Leon quoted from), you'll see that he's trying to make funding it part of a deal to avoid a government shutdown. How dare a politician in Montana attempt to throw his constituents a bone. Even if it's vague and not full of delicious peanut butter.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:45
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No one knew her name. It was given by her father, then taken by two countries. Neither wanted her, and both said that name, that government name, that identifying name, that number made of letters, with all the contempt they could find. That name was spat at her, it was a cough in the throat. The people along the real, north and south, they called her by the name she took, under cover of night, with wood and aluminum in hand. La Escalera.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:48
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haveblue posted:Worked for Xerxes, didn't it? gently caress you, punch it harder.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:49
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Mustached Demon posted:How dare a politician in Montana attempt to throw his constituents a bone. Even if it's vague and not full of delicious peanut butter. This is the state that came close to electing Rob Quist just a couple months ago. I'm not seeing what constituents he's hoping to motivate by being wishy-washy on this topic, particularly given how unpopular the idea of Trump's wall is nationally. I understand that Montana voted for Trump by a huge margin, but this seems like a pretty bad way to try to gin up turnout. And Patty Murray doesn't even have those excuses. She's in Washington State, one of the most solid blue states in the country.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:52
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Majorian posted:Because I'm not so deluded as to think that him hemming and hawing on a seriously racist pet project of Trump's will win him any "moderate Republican" votes. Yeah. I get that you think you're God's Gift to political insight. That was why I asked the question that you dodged. Why do you think you know more about the politics of Montana than someone who won a state wide election there?
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Aug 10, 2017 00:53
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Xerzes posted:gently caress you, punch it harder. You should really take a lesson from Cnute. Chill out and accept the power of the ocean.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:54
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Majorian posted:This is the state that came close to electing Rob Quist just a couple months ago. I'm not seeing what constituents he's hoping to motivate by being wishy-washy on this topic, particularly given how unpopular the idea of Trump's wall is nationally. I understand that Montana voted for Trump by a huge margin, but this seems like a pretty bad way to try to gin up turnout. He asked for funding for a wall and you called that funding an "inhuman monstrosity". Why?
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Aug 10, 2017 00:55
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Majorian posted:I honestly don't understand why his answer wasn't something along the lines of, "I believe in border security, I believe in having some parts of the border protected by a wall or fence. But I'm not for this inhumane atrocity that Trump is proposing." He probably senses that Trump voters will see attacks on trump's wall as an "atrocity" as a personal attack on Wall supporters.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:56
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Majorian posted:This is the state that came close to electing Rob Quist just a couple months ago. I'm not seeing what constituents he's hoping to motivate by being wishy-washy on this topic, particularly given how unpopular the idea of Trump's wall is nationally. I understand that Montana voted for Trump by a huge margin, but this seems like a pretty bad way to try to gin up turnout. Wait you're mad at Patty Murray's quote too? The gently caress?
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Aug 10, 2017 00:57
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What's wrong with Murray's comments? She pretty effectively puts the focus back on Trumps claims about the wall during the campaign and re-stresses his impossible position over Mexico paying for the wall.
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Aug 10, 2017 00:59
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im hoppin g mad about patty murray
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Aug 10, 2017 01:02
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Low Desert Punk posted:I had genuinely no idea even the dumbest Trump supporters thought the wall was still going to happen A bit late, but I know a guy who owns his own construction business and he was convinced he would be moving to the southwest to start construction right after the inauguration.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:03
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Its a loving miracle that we have a Dem Senator in Montana, so as far as I'm concerned, Tester can say whatever he thinks he needs to say. The only thing I expect from him is to vote for Schumer to be majority leader, and to fall in line the few times a year when we really, absolutely must have his vote.
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Aug 10, 2017 01:03
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