|
Mu77ley posted:Actually, they may be trying to implement an Entity Component System: http://entity-systems.wikidot.com/ I love to poo poo on CIG as much as anyone but some of this armchair dev analysis is cringy as hell.
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Originally they said that adding a second camera wasn't viable within CryEngine, so I guess they have that going for them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:38
|
|
|
Kosumo posted:I bet it fucks up their network code and adds more lag. Actually that's impossible, since Network is done. Lag eliminated, checkmate etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:39
|
|
|
toiletbrush posted:I love to poo poo on CIG as much as anyone but some of this armchair dev analysis is cringy as hell. Copy and pasting logic between individual weapons, just to change a single line is really bad. Imagine how a system would look like if you do it not just for one system but in everything. And that was done years ago. Granted 3-4 years of crunch will make every coder stop caring.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:39
|
|
|
Tank Boy Ken posted:Copy and pasting logic between individual weapons, just to change a single line is really bad. Imagine how a system would look like if you do it not just for one system but in everything. And that was done years ago. Granted 3-4 years of crunch will make every coder stop caring. That was when there were only 3 weapons in the game though, and no mechanics or requirements had been established for weaponry beyond what cryengine came with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:43
|
|
|
Roeben posted:That was when there were only 3 weapons in the game though, and no mechanics or requirements had been established for weaponry beyond what cryengine came with. Well perhaps it's just me. But I hate having the same code in 2 places. It's me. I'm somethingsensitive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:44
|
|
|
What if each submunition of that cluster missile is a separate weapon type?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
Tank Boy Ken posted:Well perhaps it's just me. But I hate having the same code in 2 places. It's me. I'm somethingsensitive. Depends on what I'm doing. If i'm bashing out something that needs to work quickly and will be replaced later, I see no problem with it at all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:47
|
|
|
Plural Abysss posted:Derek revives the ELE. Moma gets angry. EightAce returns with a cryptic message. I like when we get angry momaposting, it's fun to read and you get to laugh at the people trying to engage him/them instead of just mocking him
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:54
|
|
|
Roeben posted:That was when there were only 3 weapons in the game though, and no mechanics or requirements had been established for weaponry beyond what cryengine came with. I'm sorry, but if you even think about copy and pasting code between classes, and don't stop to say "hey, this is very likely to happen again, I'll just refactor it now to save time/effort later", then you are not doing your job properly.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:56
|
|
|
Tank Boy Ken posted:Well perhaps it's just me. But I hate having the same code in 2 places. It's me. I'm somethingsensitive. Yep, because it's a code smell. And it's an extremely common source of problems that will come to bite you in the arse later. Anybody with any experience knows this tries to avoid it like the plague.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 13:58
|
|
|
Mu77ley posted:I'm sorry, but if you even think about copy and pasting code between classes, and don't stop to say "hey, this is very likely to happen again, I'll just refactor it now to save time/effort later", then you are not doing your job properly. But they did do that, developing the item/clothing/weapon system that exists now. This isn't new. You can't complain they refactor a system too much and too little at the same time. Which one is it? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:07
|
|
|
Roeben posted:But they did do that, developing the item/clothing/weapon system that exists now. This isn't new. You can't complain they refactor a system too much and too little at the same time. Which one is it? I think changing their system was warranted. Their main problem is not having a plan for how stuff should interact and which attributes they need. Which is funny since pre-development started before 2011. At least to Mr. Roberts himself he had already worked for a long time on this. I don't think their bloating of Attributes for interactable Items is suprising given the organic growth of the game. But if I'm not mistaken refactoring logic into a class, instead of copy+pasting it is usually not a lot of work. I mean they could actually say "logic" and mean variables. In that case, copy+pasting them to create new weapons is probably SOP in game development. But most people do not refer to variables as "logic". Though we're talking about a company which boasted about having achieved serialized variables...
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:13
|
|
|
Mu77ley posted:I'm sorry, but if you even think about copy and pasting code between classes, and don't stop to say "hey, this is very likely to happen again, I'll just refactor it now to save time/effort later", then you are not doing your job properly. Then again, if your boss has the attention span, memory, and changes mind so often as Roberts does, you would want to keep back up copies of the code. Just in case that mop animation code you did 2 years ago before he asked you to change it, is his bright idea again now.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:17
|
|
|
Pro-tip: Always pull out duplicated code and put it in one spot. Always. The hard part is when code looks the same, but is actually different and shouldn't be shared.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:25
|
|
|
Sillybones posted:Pro-tip: Always pull out duplicated code and put it in one spot. Always. Not to defend Roberts, but hell Apple hasn't been able to fully pull it off either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:27
|
|
C-Bangin' it 
|
Tank Boy Ken posted:Well perhaps it's just me. But I hate having the same code in 2 places. It's me. I'm somethingsensitive. if it matters, that's the point of DRY (Don't repeat yourself). Python is pretty much built around that concept. SelenicMartian posted:What if each submunition of that cluster missile is a separate weapon type? It think that was the upshot of the missile chat. Each entity is it's own thing, so 6 starfish/mirv missiles will become 36 entities. Mu77ley posted:Yep, because it's a code smell. And it's an extremely common source of problems that will come to bite you in the arse later. Anybody with any experience knows this tries to avoid it like the plague. Literally bites you in the arse. When you first get into functional programming, the first thing you do is start chokepointing (I predate OO); then when you're into OO, you start the process of writing to tests. Sillybones posted:Pro-tip: Always pull out duplicated code and put it in one spot. Always. QFT; Colostomy Bag posted:Not to defend Roberts, but hell Apple hasn't been able to fully pull it off either. Apple's been suffering from a brain drain for a while. Google too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:41
|
|
|
Hav posted:
Showing my age, but I always thought it was cool to get Kickstart images for the Amiga (the leaked ones with the dev notes during the 2.0 and 3.0 releases) and they would go to great lengths explaining how they saved 200 bytes here or 30 cycles there. Granted it was a different time and obviously a programmers time is cheaper than storage and my god they had storage constraints to keep to. But as we both know the pendulum swings and perhaps someday we will get back to efficient code. Had to chuckle yesterday when the latest Geforce driver was 400 megs. Would have been roughly 200 floppys. Yeah I'm old.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 14:52
|
|
|
no_recall posted:No, thats a screenshot. I see you are not familiar with Magritte and the French irrealism movement. Lethality is clearly making a bold statement here: "Ceci n'est pas une trailer."
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:07
|
|
|
Colostomy Bag posted:Showing my age, but I always thought it was cool to get Kickstart images for the Amiga (the leaked ones with the dev notes during the 2.0 and 3.0 releases) and they would go to great lengths explaining how they saved 200 bytes here or 30 cycles there. "Computers are so powerfull these days, it's not as important to write efficient code or care about asset size as it used to be", said Crobberts, before clipping through the floor at 5fps in his MMO with a maximum player count of 18.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
tuo posted:"Computers are so powerfull these days, it's not as important to write efficient code or care about asset size as it used to be", said Crobberts, before clipping through the floor at 5fps in his MMO with a maximum player count of 18. 5GB per ship should be enough for everyone. -- Chris Roberts, esq.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:14
|
|
|
Tiber in space Rome... they've really given up on any hope of creativity in this train wreck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:15
|
|
|
It was really nice of the rest of humanity to let English speakers name all the planets and stars after things from their history and culture only.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
hardycore posted:It was really nice of the rest of humanity to let English speakers name all the planets and stars after things from their history and culture only. they needed those tax credits
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:21
|
|
|
hardycore posted:It was really nice of the rest of humanity to let English speakers name all the planets and stars after things from their history and culture only. Eventually they'll get to systems named for Crobberts's favourite vacation spots
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:21
|
|
|
JugbandDude posted:Tiber in space Rome... they've really given up on any hope of creativity in this train wreck. They aren't competent enough to realize how trash this all is.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
lol friendly reminder that even loving  has PIP working in their lovely cryengine game.Although admittedly, the fidelity argument does hold some water here cause MWO's RTT stuff is very simple status graphics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:29
|
|
|
Beet Wagon posted:lol friendly reminder that even loving "cheated" in their PIP implementation. It's basically a zoomed in portion of the already rendered view. Thus a lot more efficient than actually rendering part of the scene again.It's like a ZOOM this. Just without enhance.If I recall correctly CIG did something similar with their Sniper Scope FlatScreen?
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:43
|
|
|
doingitwrong posted:Any well-managed game is going to have a Producer role. A producer's job (unlike in film—where they are generally money people) is to manage the project scope and schedule. Their main role on a day to day basis is to say "no" to things. They act as a kind of foil to the designers whose job is to propose cool ideas and mechanics and push the features as far as they can. As a team, producers, designers, programmers, and artists work to develop a project that is feasible but ground-breaking. How groundbreaking? Depends on the project. Ultimately, it's up to the producer to have the last word on what does and doesn't get worked on in the game. I'm way back in the past but this post deserves to be quoted either way.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:44
|
|
|
Tank Boy Ken posted:
For their "advanced zoom" you mean? Yeah, they did the same thing CIG did with the sniper scope (which is why Advanced Zoom sucks rear end and only the most dedicated gaussboats use it) But I think they got PIP working for the monitor screens in the cockpits, IIRC. But again, those are just simple status screens, not like... holograms or whatever. The point is that the tech is there, and CIG are (again) reinventing the wheel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
hardycore posted:It was really nice of the rest of humanity to let English speakers name all the planets and stars after things from their history and culture only.  China, Japan, and India all got their own star systems where they turned into anthropomorphic turtles, birds, and trees respectively.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:51
|
|
|
Colostomy Bag posted:But as we both know the pendulum swings and perhaps someday we will get back to efficient code. Office 4.23 came on 35 floppies; I was an IT manager when the CDROM and the internet arrived. Processor cycles will always be cheaper than programmer time, but the moore's law expansion means that we have a lot of headroom for inefficiency, which is one of the reasons why we're interpreting rather than compiling most of the time. There hasn't really been much of change since OO arrived, though. RISC came and went with the vastly increased clock speeds. XK has a better handle on processors, but we went from optimising queries in 1997 to throwing in abstraction layers to increase portability in 2003 and finally to devolving things into key/value stores and nosql at around 2010. tuo posted:"Computers are so powerfull these days, it's not as important to write efficient code or care about asset size as it used to be", said Crobberts, before clipping through the floor at 5fps in his MMO with a maximum player count of 18. Ye cannae change the laws of physics - Montgomery Scott hardycore posted:It was really nice of the rest of humanity to let English speakers name all the planets and stars after things from their history and culture only. 'Crusader' has some resonance to it in the Middle-East. Can't for the life of me remember why.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:52
|
|
|
Hav posted:'Crusader' has some resonance to it in the Middle-East. Can't for the life of me remember why. Because the Crusaders went there on a party: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:54
|
|
|
There's some japanese stuff around, some german stuff, some egyptian names, also a cereal brand...
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:55
|
|
|
doingitwrong posted:And it is. Feature prototyping plays a crucial role in the early days of any game, especially a AAA one. But when people talk about a game being in development for years, often the first few years of that game's life are done with a skeleton crew. A core group of programmers and designers, with an artist or two, working primarily with grey boxes and WIP assets to validate design ideas and asset pipelines. Only once you have a solid idea of the core gameplay loops and the technical requirements to realize your vision do you staff up. Generally, you put this together in something called a vertical slice. This whole post is great but I wanted to highlight this because I vaguely remember some dumb citizen calling Elite Dangerous "skunkworks trash" and I always found it hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 15:59
|
|
|
Gamescom 2017 In a last ditch effort to calm the backers: Roberts is forced to demonstrate 3.0" in a playable state.................. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
toiletbrush posted:Experienced leads/architects with the best will in the world can't keep code hygienic and stop tech-debt mounting if they're in crunch/'just hack it in for the demo and do it properly later' mode 100% of the time, and having an architecture with strong technical direction (that also helps stop the juniors doing dumb stuff) is really tough with requirements that are constantly changing or non-existent. I bet they're mostly decent devs, they're just working in the worst environment possible. gently caress that dude. If you write lovely code because you let yourself get pushed around, if you don't have the backbone to either change the system or quit, then you're a lovely developer. It doesn't matter how "good" you are in theory. This is Star Citizen doublethink. "They're actually really good developers, they just write poo poo code that doesn't work because" reads a lot like "This game is really amazing it's just an unplayable pile of poo poo right now because"
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Hav posted:Office 4.23 came on 35 floppies; I was an IT manager when the CDROM and the internet arrived. Yes, of course. I'm all for abstraction and saving a programmer's time. Guess what I'm implying is the bloat is going past Moore's law. Lax underlying APIs, ABIs and other issues have bloated code (and more importantly assets) into a 'let's throw the kitchen sink into it' because what the hell, storage is cheap and we need the drat to compile. Yet here we are...reaching a point where storage isn't so cheap anymore. Anyways, back on topic, looking forward to whatever this weeks show is going to be since they've discontinued ATV for the making of 3.0. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:12
|
|
|
If you have any idea what you're doing, refactoring on the fly when you feel the impulse to copy/paste code is instinctual and doesn't actually take any longer. The problem is, a lot of developers in the gaming industry are the worst kind of programmers. They're code-closet cowboys who think they're geniuses because no one can read their tangled web of spaghetti vomit, when in actual fact, they're junior-level hackers who couldn't write a hello world without stack.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 06:28 |
|
|
Toops posted:gently caress that dude. If you write lovely code because you let yourself get pushed around, if you don't have the backbone to either change the system or quit, then you're a lovely developer. It doesn't matter how "good" you are in theory. This is Star Citizen doublethink. "They're actually really good developers, they just write poo poo code that doesn't work because" reads a lot like "This game is really amazing it's just an unplayable pile of poo poo right now because" There's a reason the experienced devs all left, when this whole thing rolls over anyone still working at CIG will be kryptonite. Either you knew better and did it anyway, or you didn't know and learned bad behavior. Either way it's actively dangerous for a company to hire you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2017 16:21
|
|
