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and I'm sure plenty of people here can point out how obnoxious I am for stumping for police abolition in this very thread maybe you shouldn't believe the totally real "i love amerikkka, cops, and apple pie,,," resume that happens to be found and spread by non-DSA people right after the election. if you can show actual evidence of how he actively benefited cops I'd be right there with you in saying he should be thrown out
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Aug 11, 2017 07:38
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hey guys I just graduated from the police academy ama
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Aug 11, 2017 07:39
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Minty posted:and I'm sure plenty of people here can point out how obnoxious I am for stumping for police abolition in this very thread other people already did and im lazy so im gonna go ahead and say no i dont care you bootlicker
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Aug 11, 2017 07:42
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Ace of Baes posted:other people already did and im lazy so im gonna go ahead and say no i dont care you bootlicker hmm yes "other people" did. I should unquestioningly rely on their authority. This would make me not a bootlicker edit: ace of baes I think you have explaining to do  I hope to see your op resignation by tomorrow Minty has issued a correction as of 07:49 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 07:46
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Minty posted:hmm yes "other people" did. I should unquestioningly rely on their authority. This would make me not a bootlicker jesus christ youre insufferable
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Aug 11, 2017 07:48
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No cop. No cop. You're the cop.
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Aug 11, 2017 07:50
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okay so my gimmick for the night has been engaging in good faith and here's where i stand as a founding member of the houston oc back in 2015: when we got our initial 6 people (i believe, there are four of us still around) together to sign the sheet and turn it in danny fetonte drove down from austin to help us through the process and to attend our first meeting. he was instrumental in the lives of people that i know that are now successful organizers within organized labor and in DSA. he visited multiple times, ran an organizing class for our fresh members when we were just getting on our feet, and has been nothing but supportive through the entire process of building DSA in tx. i've always known him as a more or less legendary labor organizer in tx that was always available to help build the organization before many of the people in this thread had ever even heard of it. i can promise you that without danny houston DSA would not exist as it is today, possibly at all. i've known him as a comrade this entire time, i never knew he worked for CLEAT (not that it was a secret), always knew him as the retired CWA organizer that he is (he basically built TSEU (also not mentioned in his bio that i saw)). when the first bomb dropped about the police union i was pretty shocked, but because he was my comrade i made the decision to wait on judgement before i had a chance to let the man speak for himself. i think a lot of people were on the same page as far as that goes. my understanding is that his first reaction was to not say anything and think it would blow over (he doesn't understand internet) and the npc encouraged him not to make a statement. he isn't good at explaining things in a way that don't open him for attack but i do believe he was honest and earnest with what he told us tonight. the fact that mere hours after singing the internationale at the convention we were willing to start making internet petitions, statements, and attack the south, austin, and danny really concerns me. all we had was a linkedin profile that was absolutely not created by him. he still hasn't had a hearing, he hasn't had his story distributed or any context explained. people were calling for his head long before he even had an opportunity to speak for himself, and now the narrative is out of control. if this is the procedure for dealing with controversy, if this is the direction the organization decides it is going to go with these kinds of things, we are already doomed. i'm deeply concerned by the NPC statement that describes what he did as anti-democratic and i'm worried they're taking the stance they have because they're panicking about losing outraged members that have been given no real context or complete information about this situation. we are supposed to engage our comrades in good faith and we are supposed to hear them out. this can take a while, it doesn't happen on the twitter timeline. currently, i feel like we're as an org willing to abandon our process and skip the democracy because we're worried we're going to bleed members. i don't know that we can be saved if this is the route we take. if this isn't COINTELPRO now, when they get off the ground we're really hosed.
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Aug 11, 2017 07:51
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did we vote it was haram to work within the imperialist democratic party? i don't remember that part if we did. is it possible that union organizing can be nuanced and complicated and that it's possible a good man used what leo connections he had for real material benefits for people? maybe?
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Aug 11, 2017 07:53
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Ace of Baes posted:jesus christ youre insufferable this is funny coming from you, chief
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Aug 11, 2017 07:53
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jarofpiss posted:did we vote it was haram to work within the imperialist democratic party? i don't remember that part if we did. is it possible that union organizing can be nuanced and complicated and that it's possible a good man used what leo connections he had for real material benefits for people? maybe? breaking from the democratic party was voted down
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Aug 11, 2017 07:54
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jarofpiss posted:we are supposed to engage our comrades in good faith and we are supposed to hear them out. this can take a while, it doesn't happen on the twitter timeline. currently, i feel like we're as an org willing to abandon our process and skip the democracy because we're worried we're going to bleed members. i don't know that we can be saved if this is the route we take. if this isn't COINTELPRO now, when they get off the ground we're really hosed. solidarity
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Aug 11, 2017 07:55
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I stand with jarofpiss and everything he's said.
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Aug 11, 2017 07:57
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Taintrunner posted:I stand with jarofpiss and everything he's said. i appreciate that but you might want to check my post history before you say something you can't take back
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Aug 11, 2017 07:57
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e: wait
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Aug 11, 2017 08:05
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jarofpiss posted:is it possible that union organizing can be nuanced and complicated and that it's possible a good man used what leo connections he had for real material benefits for people? maybe? It can be nuanced and complicated but being a field rep for CLEAT isn't going to be a job where the outcomes of your organizing are going to be all bread and roses comrade. If he was reforming police from the inside in their union structure, why didn't he run on it instead of referring to them as state workers when he's specific elsewhere? It doesn't look good, and when people who voted for him feel betrayed it's going to be hard for them to just pick up and operate on good faith.
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Aug 11, 2017 08:09
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Minty posted:breaking from the democratic party was voted down What was up with this by the way? From what I understand there were a couple chances for a break and we rejected them all: -Bernie 2020 Third Party Resolution (which rightfully went down after it was pointed out Bernie himself doesn't want to run third party), but also -Resolution that said an independent socialist party should be the long term goal. I think this was tabled for further research into its legal implications but it was surprising how few seemed to support it. And finally, -A rather mild and factual statement to be added to the priorities resolution that the Democrats are our competitors, which was voted down. What gives?
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Aug 11, 2017 08:12
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Tim Pawlenty posted:It can be nuanced and complicated but being a field rep for CLEAT isn't going to be a job where the outcomes of your organizing are going to be all bread and roses comrade. the state workers thing is because he literally created the texas state employees union which is a union that represents university professors, social workers, cooks, janitors, fuckin everyone that works for the state that isn't a schoolteacher or a cop edit: nothing to do with CLEAT edit edit: he was never a field rep for CLEAT that's off the fake news linked in profile his position was something else i can't remember off the top of my head but he specifically mentioned that jarofpiss has issued a correction as of 08:20 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 08:12
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i'm not attacking tim pawlenty forums poster but that is literally the twitter narrative that has spun out of control because people don't know anything about danny because they don't know anything about unions
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Aug 11, 2017 08:14
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the only time danny worked for CLEAT in the sense that he received a paycheck from them was after he was asked by an old organizing friend while volunteering for the 08 obama campaign and he proceeded to basically work on things like mandating community policing and working on reducing police related shootings and mental health care for cops in rough areas and etc etc. yes gently caress the police i agree. but this guy didn't handle grievances for cops murdering black kids. he quit in 2012 which is well before DSA established it's police/prison abolition stance (which danny fuckin voted in favor of lol) edit: CLEAT is still a piece of poo poo org i'm not debating that btw
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Aug 11, 2017 08:18
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jarofpiss posted:i'm not attacking tim pawlenty forums poster but that is literally the twitter narrative that has spun out of control because people don't know anything about danny because they don't know anything about unions and considering the decades of work by rich pricks to destroy unions nationwide i cant say i'm surprised, yet its sad to see people refusing to admit hey, maybe they got things wrong. but thats not cool to do online, i guess
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Aug 11, 2017 08:20
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If we all came together and embraced nuclear holocaust, we'd be feeling a lot more solidarity around these parts
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Aug 11, 2017 08:21
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jarofpiss posted:the state workers thing is because he literally created the texas state employees union which is a union that represents university professors, social workers, cooks, janitors, fuckin everyone that works for the state that isn't a schoolteacher or a cop He either omitted CLEAT entirely or they are under the state worker label. Neither looks good to some people since it doesn't seem to be fully disclosing everything. jarofpiss posted:i'm not attacking tim pawlenty forums poster but that is literally the twitter narrative that has spun out of control because people don't know anything about danny because they don't know anything about unions He is in CLEAT's own publications as late as the end of 2013, and in others around that time he is referred to as a field rep and as you mentioned he did this for a few years around that time (likely late 2000s or early 2010s) No one is disparaging the work he's done in the past and recently. Tim Pawlenty has issued a correction as of 08:29 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 08:23
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jarofpiss posted:the only time danny worked for CLEAT in the sense that he received a paycheck from them was after he was asked by an old organizing friend while volunteering for the 08 obama campaign and he proceeded to basically work on things like mandating community policing and working on reducing police related shootings and mental health care for cops in rough areas and etc etc. yes gently caress the police i agree. but this guy didn't handle grievances for cops murdering black kids. he quit in 2012 which is well before DSA established it's police/prison abolition stance (which danny fuckin voted in favor of lol) He should have run on that! This is about perception to membership and when you omit information about something fairly recent it makes people perceive that something's fishy
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Aug 11, 2017 08:26
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Tim Pawlenty posted:He either omitted CLEAT entirely or they are under the state worker label. Neither looks good to some people since it doesn't seem to be fully disclosing everything. i linked a cwa union site that had a link to a bunch of its locals earlier in the thread but let me explain how this works: cwa is a big union: danny works for them danny is assigned different organizing campaigns with small local unions that are not part of a big one, organizes, grows, they join CWA this is mostly telephone workers (hence that time he got verizon wireless shops to join the CWA with a bazillion new members) there are also other unions he is assigned, CLEAT is one of them. after negotiating their entry into the CWA he is assigned as the liason between CWA and CLEAT (he says during his career this occupies less than 5% of his time) danny also helps start the texas state employees union (CWA local ####) danny still works for CWA The entire time to retirement, he doesn't list literally every small sub affiliate union that he did work with this is not obfuscation
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Aug 11, 2017 08:29
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danny's paycheck said CWA until he retired. he did get paid a couple years after retirement doing the work i mentioned before with CLEAT because he was recruited by an old organizing friend and did the work i mentioned earlier
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Aug 11, 2017 08:31
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i look forward to the next bomb dropping on some other NPC member's background after this blows over because this is all fuckin COINTELPRO agitation edit: i gotta crash but i wanted to be sure to get all this out on the internet at 2:30 am so the maximum number of people see it jarofpiss has issued a correction as of 08:35 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 08:33
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jarofpiss posted:i look forward to the next bomb dropping on some other NPC member's background after this blows over because this is all fuckin COINTELPRO agitation I'm thinking it's someone that was internal with an axe to grind or an external local group that was adjacent and looking to discredit him fwiw
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Aug 11, 2017 08:34
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Why's there go to be so much goddang intrigue.
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Aug 11, 2017 08:39
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jarofpiss posted:i look forward to the next bomb dropping on some other NPC member's background after this blows over because this is all fuckin COINTELPRO agitation im afraid I have some bad news about this forum
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Aug 11, 2017 08:39
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Why's there go to be so much goddang intrigue. because we're finally relevant
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Aug 11, 2017 09:35
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I Am A Robot posted:hey guys I just graduated from the police academy ama Were you the guy who's a crazy good driver, the mimic dude, the really tall guy, or do you have a different minor superpower?
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Aug 11, 2017 09:59
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Tim Pawlenty posted:it was most definitely someone knowing his history and deciding to put it out there, the question is if it was an internal or an external wrecker considering it was set up a week before, but no one mentioned it until immediately after he was elected, my guess is external. if you went though twitter and looked at the first people to bring it up you'd probably find something
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Aug 11, 2017 10:06
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I Am A Robot posted:hey guys I just graduated from the police academy ama
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Aug 11, 2017 11:26
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jarofpiss posted:i look forward to the next bomb dropping on some other NPC member's background after this blows over because this is all fuckin COINTELPRO agitation alternative: people are just horrendously stupid, leftism is dead forever, and our only hope is the cleansing heat of global thermonuclear war
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Aug 11, 2017 12:21
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jarofpiss posted:okay so my gimmick for the night has been engaging in good faith... I read everything you wrote here and I have to say, continuing to address this as if it's all just Twitterati lunatics accusing him of being a secret cop isn't really engaging in good faith. You basically don't ever address the fact that it genuinely looks to a whole lot of people that he lied by omission about something pretty significant and interesting. The closest you come is saying you don't think he was being dishonest. Well, good for you, but not everyone has the same personal relationship with him that you do. There are real problems with process, with the way reactions unfolded, with how people and whole chapters are getting attacked (that is especially bullshit). But if you want to actually deal with people in good faith, you have to acknowledge that no one who hasn't worked with Danny as closely as you has to just take your word for it that this was just an old guy confused about the internet who thought everyone already knew he worked for CLEAT and didn't explain himself well when, actually, from the outside, it looks like he had a lot of reasons to assume it would be difficult for him to explain, hurt his chances of winning election, and purposefully obfuscated that. eta: Ack, posted too soon, didn't see your post on this page, will reconsider after reading it more closely. GunnerJ has issued a correction as of 13:22 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 13:19
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We should just purge all CWA members from DSA, to be safe
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Aug 11, 2017 13:26
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GunnerJ posted:I read everything you wrote here and I have to say, continuing to address this as if it's all just Twitterati lunatics accusing him of being a secret cop isn't really engaging in good faith. The fully sick Twitter crowd has controlled so much of the narrative about this, though. I think it's a major bummer that people were so willing to demand swift, righteous action without having anything near a complete picture of what's what. There's a strain of burn the cop!!! and ask questions later that feels kind of dumb and sad to me. E: vvvvvvv Insanite has issued a correction as of 13:35 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 13:29
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Ace of Baes you seem to have a very poor concept of time in activist if you think this process is taking too long. Considering the NPC people have been home from an exhausting convention for, what, three days? Danny isnt the one tearing the DSA apart right now, regardless of whether he should resign or not or what the outcome of this should actually be. (He should) Its the idiots getting high on their outrage supply and advocating for shooting first and asking questions later because they got roped in by a provaceteur. The people with a rather loose understanding of the situation and reality in general. The people who have gotten super excited to have a simple, accessible internal enemy to rail against come across as bike shedders, acting out because they found something that is easy to have an opinion and makes great ego feeding fodder. Of all the hosed up results of this situation, Danny's omission should be the LEAST concerning next to the fact that a) apparently the DSA doesnt have anyone vetting their candidates and b) The DSA membership is really susceptible to outrage manipulation and a shoot first ask questions never mentality that is rather indiscriminate in its condemnations and grandiose in its accusatoons Both of which are way loving bigger deals than Fentonte and a way higher priority to deal with right now. And if we really dont trust our elected leadership to investigate this issue enough to give them time to so it thats another big problem. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 13:34 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 13:31
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GunnerJ posted:I read everything you wrote here and I have to say, continuing to address this as if it's all just Twitterati lunatics accusing him of being a secret cop isn't really engaging in good faith. You basically don't ever address the fact that it genuinely looks to a whole lot of people that he lied by omission about something pretty significant and interesting. The closest you come is saying you don't think he was being dishonest. Well, good for you, but not everyone has the same personal relationship with him that you do. i get that the optics are terrible because of how the narrative got away but none of the NPC candidates gave full extensive work histories. the CLEAT work was a small insignificant part of his much larger career that had nothing to do with cops. he said he followed the lead of the other candidates when writing his bio and of course because he's running for an election he focused on his strengths, that's just normal politicking imho. understand that when this guy is crafting his bio he's an old guard labor organizer, not a revolutionary marxist, and it literally never crossed his mind. the situation is that lots of our labor members have connections to orgs that are controversial and if we want to be involved in organized labor well that's where things are right now. i will say that if you want an organization that has influence in labor there isn't anyone that i know of with a better rolodex than danny.
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Aug 11, 2017 13:32
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unbutthurtable posted:We should just purge all CWA members from DSA, to be safe unfortunately i think it's gonna have to be the whole dang afl-cio. also while we're doing it any past or present cop, active duty military, and to be safe any former military officers. when we get this thing whittled down to just the two trots outside the convention we'll really have this figured out.
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Aug 11, 2017 13:34
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