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Elephant Ambush posted:Thanks for the suggestions! I'll Hailstorm a try. I forgot all about it. Snazzy Frocks posted:Are the newcomer banners and event dungeons going to be permanent additions? There's no timeframe on them so I'm genuinely worried they're going to clutter things up for the rest of the game's lifespan
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Aug 11, 2017 20:27
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The banners are still excellent ways to get cheap synergy for very common realms, which is what new players need the most after a hastega, a medica, and a boostga.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:34
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Zurai posted:The banners are still excellent ways to get cheap synergy for very common realms, which is what new players need the most What?? In what world is Synergy the first concern of a new player? The only times I've ever had Synergy matter in the 6 months I've played this game is on Nightmare, Torment, or other 200+ content, and even then there's about a dozen more necessary things for a new player (Hastega, Medica BSB, Support SSB or BSB, Team Pump, Heck, even just damage dealing BSBs), all of which by the time they have those 75% of the relics on these banners would be completely useless. There's nothing excellent about these banners.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:41
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As a new player, the banner is terrible as hell and I'd never pull on it. The dungeons, however, kick all kinds of rear end and I'm going to be running them every day that's not an EXP day.
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Aug 11, 2017 20:45
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Zurai posted:The banners are still excellent ways to get cheap synergy for very common realms, which is what new players need the most after a hastega, a medica, and a boostga. Aren't the banners all riddled with gun arms and megaphones that aren't particularly useful as synergy items?
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Aug 11, 2017 20:45
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BGrifter posted:Aren't the banners all riddled with gun arms and megaphones that aren't particularly useful as synergy items? Less so than pulling on a standard banner for the realm. Seriously, look at DoC 1. It's two mage guns, two spears, a katana, and three hairpins.
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Aug 11, 2017 21:19
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Zurai posted:The banners are still excellent ways to get cheap synergy for very common realms, which is what new players need the most after a hastega, a medica, and a boostga. realm dungeons offer half-off pulls once a month, we had a meta-defining VII banner about a month ago, and there are several pretty solid banners not far from here. I'm a sucker for half-off banners as much as anyone, but this is banner is garbage. If it had EVERYTHING from VII rather than this 'select' list it'd be a much much better pull (OSBs, USBs, CSB)
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Aug 11, 2017 22:05
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Pander posted:If it had EVERYTHING from VII rather than this 'select' list it'd be a much much better pull (OSBs, USBs, CSB) Really now? Adding 7 items to a 63 item pool would really make it a "much better pull"?
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Aug 11, 2017 22:31
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Zurai posted:Really now? Adding 7 items to a 63 item pool would really make it a "much better pull"? yeah considering that half the items in the pool are 100% obsolete, anything marked "USB" is at the front end of the power creep, and one of those USBs is considered the most powerful item in the game right now
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Aug 11, 2017 22:37
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Cowcaster posted:yeah considering that half the items in the pool are 100% obsolete and one of those 7 not in the pool is considered the most powerful item in the game right now So a 0.28% chance to draw Cloud USB turns a banner from poo poo to a good pull? (also Cloud USB is pretty much worthless to a new player)
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Aug 11, 2017 22:38
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Zurai posted:So a 0.28% chance to draw Cloud USB turns a banner from poo poo to a good pull? a better pull?
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Aug 11, 2017 22:39
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Zurai posted:(also Cloud USB is pretty much worthless to a new player) That Cloud USB has the potential to turn very valuable in the long term. But the Buster Sword will never be good again. And I don't buy the synergy argument either. You want your synergy attached on to good, valuable items, not ones that would have made pullers sad a year ago. I would much rather recommend a 50 mythril banner that has high quality soul breaks and synergy, rather than a bad 25 mythril banner with 50% items with entirely useless soul breaks.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:48
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mind you, its a one time only 25 pull. they expect people to spend 50 normally
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Aug 11, 2017 22:57
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Zurai posted:So a 0.28% chance to draw Cloud USB turns a banner from poo poo to a good pull? I'd say it makes a half-price pull worth pulling on for new players and MAYBE a worthwhile gamble for older players hunting cloud USB or zack CSB. And any OSB is immediately a great stat-stick for newer players, way better than any SB/SSB/BSB. Like this banner is almost worse than the beginner banner still available.
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Aug 11, 2017 22:58
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I just need these IV and V banners to show up so I can blow all my mythril and stop being tempted by other things.
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Aug 11, 2017 23:53
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I'll agree that the inclusion of Uniques is pretty dubious minus a handful that are still good (Yuffie's Clear Tranquil, Lulu's Focus). But I think these are still good options for a player just starting with only their freebie relic to their name. Even a Buster Sword can be useful as a stat stick with far more ATK than anything else a newbie will have. Combine that with the potential for really good stuff and I think it's good. To us it looks like garbage because we have been playing for ages and have plenty of options available but I certainly remember when I first started and how pretty much any 5* that came my way was awesome. Keeper's Choice 2 is still better thanks to Platinum Sword and Sentinel's but it's not half-price. The value of a half-price banner to someone completely new is huge.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:16
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I'll agree that the inclusion of Uniques is pretty dubious minus a handful that are still good (Yuffie's Clear Tranquil, Lulu's Focus). But I think these are still good options for a player just starting with only their freebie relic to their name. Even a Buster Sword can be useful as a stat stick with far more ATK than anything else a newbie will have. Combine that with the potential for really good stuff and I think it's good. To us it looks like garbage because we have been playing for ages and have plenty of options available but I certainly remember when I first started and how pretty much any 5* that came my way was awesome. Exactly. Thank you. I agree that these banners are lousy for established players. They're not designed to be good for established players. But the comment I was responding to implied that they should go away because they were mildly annoying to an established player, when they're certainly not really any worse than the beginner's banner considering that they're half price.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:18
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The banners are terrible, even if you're a new player. The things you get grom newer banners are so much better that waiting for 50 mythril and a new banner is a far better choice than these lucky draws.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:46
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Not really, no. Some banners are better, yes, but a new player really does need equipment badly. Going into fights with any 5 star weapon and armor is night and day versus going into fights with 4 star poo poo. Unlike most of you, I actually made an alt account -- for a while there was a possibility that DeNA was going to start encrypting data and the way around that would require actually changing their code at runtime so I made a separate account to sacrifice to the very low chance of a ban in response -- and I needed that account to be able to clear up to the highest level of content in the game in order to gather data with it. I challenge any of you to beat a battle on the level of U+ Mandragoras with a 2 week old account and zero relevant gear, since everyone seems to believe that having no gear is better than having synergy gear around here. I've done that fight with a two week old account. It took me five hours, and the only way I was able to even attempt it is that I pulled a synergy stat stick for my mage and a little bit of armor for people to wear. Using 4 star rods would have completely prevented me from winning. In short, ya'll are being conservative as gently caress about this. It's poo poo for you so it's complete poo poo for everyone and should be tossed out the nearest window, nevermind the baby in the bathwater.
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Aug 12, 2017 00:59
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this rufus fight is just as full of poo poo as ever, such nostalgia
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Aug 12, 2017 01:29
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Compromise: anytime a different lucky banner comes up, a big X covers the Newbie banner along with a message saying "For the love of Demon, Fiend, and Goddess, PULL ON THE OTHER ONE!"
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Aug 12, 2017 01:42
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maybe they could, like, not make the banners be full of garbage in the first place.
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Aug 12, 2017 01:48
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wizard on a water slide posted:this rufus fight is just as full of poo poo as ever, such nostalgia Yeah gently caress the rufus fight, it's such a load of poo poo. I beat it but man it was stupid. Seifer was like a huge downgrade in difficulty and felt about right.
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Aug 12, 2017 02:09
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Just beat Belias 300 thanks to a Cloud USB RW, Last Stand spam, and Agrias hitting over 140k with her enholy SSB and close to 100k with Guardbringer. 
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Aug 12, 2017 03:08
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I just need these IV and V banners to show up so I can blow all my mythril and stop being tempted by other things. If Bartz's USB chase could trigger off of non-spellblade elemental physical attacks (like Cloud/Zack's BSB commands) I would be all in on his USB since it'd go from "this is crazy good" to "this is total bullshit." ....it doesn't does it?  Zurai posted:Exactly. Thank you. I agree that these banners are lousy for established players. They're not designed to be good for established players. But the comment I was responding to implied that they should go away because they were mildly annoying to an established player, when they're certainly not really any worse than the beginner's banner considering that they're half price. The banners are bad, even for new players. IDK why you're arguing so much otherwise. A couple non-poo poo uniques does not change the fact that it is a banner full of vastly outdated garbage that isn't nearly as good as what a newbie is going to get from actual current banners. Being half price doesn't make those relics less garbage. Someone pulling a Hardedge or Ogre nix instead of an Ultima Blade, or Yuffie's headband instead of a healer BSB (or even an SSB in a lot of cases), is still going to be getting an extremely garbage relic even if they paid half price. And it goes without saying that these banners are inferior in every possible way to the half price Lucky Draw banners. I would actively advise new players to avoid these banners. They are newbie traps that will give them garbage. Maybe if it guaranteed 2-3 5* relics I could buy the "it'll help them" argument. But if they have the chance of going 1/11 and getting a unique, years-old piece of garbage SB? Hell no.
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Aug 12, 2017 03:16
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I'll go one further by saying that these are the biggest trap banners in the entire history of the game. It also shows one of two things to me, that either DeNA is utterly incompetent when it comes to knowing what would be useful SBs for a beginner to have (probably not this), or that they know exactly what they're doing and this is a scheme to get newbies to steal away a lot of their easily obtained early mythril on useless poo poo so that they'll be more likely to buy gems on the much, much better full-priced banners with down the line. If they seriously wanted to actually help beginners, they would have curated the relic lists for each realm to filter out the total dogshit. This isn't to say that every unique soul break is awful, as Clear Tranquil and Lunatic High immediately spring to mind as things that would really give a beginner a leg-up. An even better option would have been to not make these realm-locked banners, and instead create a curated lucky banner with a number of hastega, boostga, faithga, medica (and wall) SBs. Something like Lunatic High, Boon, Choco Chick, Divine Heal, etc. No need to throw in BSBs, but there's a whole host of great uniques and SSBs they could have collected together.
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Aug 12, 2017 03:32
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I understand what Zurai is getting at. When I started earlier this year it took me a month to be able to outfit a team in 5star gear, it was rough. I had serah's clock master gloves and ramza's grand armor from keepers choice and they were necessary as stat items to start getting goodies from events. Feel free to disagree. Sure it would be nice to have luckies with all the newest great stuff, but that's not what these are for. They're not limited time only, they exist to give options to people who start and don't want to wait weeks to pull on a banner that might not have characters they like, and where they could just go lmr/11 anyway.
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Aug 12, 2017 03:38
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Yeah, I was just considering giving Mog an MC3 when all I have for him is his -50% atk/mag reverse wall unique SB, because that would still make him pretty much my best support dancer. But there are so, so many bad relics in there that it's just not a pull worth making. If you need synergy to do FFVII ultimates, wait until the next FFVII event and get modern useful relics. Of course, then there are jerks like a guy I saw in chat that pulled Sephiroth BSB2, Zack BSB, Aerith's Wizard Staff, and Cait Sith's Green Megaphone, but those people suck.
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Aug 12, 2017 03:41
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Zurai posted:Not really, no. Some banners are better, yes, but a new player really does need equipment badly. Going into fights with any 5 star weapon and armor is night and day versus going into fights with 4 star poo poo. Unlike most of you, I actually made an alt account -- for a while there was a possibility that DeNA was going to start encrypting data and the way around that would require actually changing their code at runtime so I made a separate account to sacrifice to the very low chance of a ban in response -- and I needed that account to be able to clear up to the highest level of content in the game in order to gather data with it. I challenge any of you to beat a battle on the level of U+ Mandragoras with a 2 week old account and zero relevant gear, since everyone seems to believe that having no gear is better than having synergy gear around here. I've done that fight with a two week old account. It took me five hours, and the only way I was able to even attempt it is that I pulled a synergy stat stick for my mage and a little bit of armor for people to wear. Using 4 star rods would have completely prevented me from winning. My experience when I first started playing was kind of miserable in regards to gear. My first real pull was the Black Friday Lucky which gave me Josef's Giant's Gloves, Rinoa's Rising Sun, and Healing Grimoire. Then I proceeded to get drowned in Shared Medica rods/staves and my next actual character relic was Red XIII's Gold Barrette. Not having any real commonly used gear for physical characters for a long time absolutely sucked. It took me quite a long time before I was able to really do bonus battles because I just needed actual relics with actual stats.
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Aug 12, 2017 04:38
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It's kinda weird to look through your inventory and see the occiaisional 5* with a shared SB or without an SB at all and be reminded that these were things that existed. And we justified it as "Hey a 5* is at least a stat stick right?:
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Aug 12, 2017 04:42
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I got Platinum Sword (very first 11x relic banner pull!), Ultima Blade and whatever armor is giving my Onion Knight Sword & Spell and I just started playing this past Sunday  (from what I understand Sword & Spell is probably hella weak in the long run but I like it, it's been real helpful). The Newcomer banner gave me Ultima Blade; it also gave me Barret's Grenade Bomb gunarm, which I'm assuming is crap.
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Aug 12, 2017 05:07
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I think it basically boils down to: can the banners be better? Yes. Are they trash? Not necessarily. Are they trash because they exist right next to a superior FFVII banner? Yes, unless you really want to gamble on getting one of Aerith's Medicas. I'd be honest, I'd be slightly tempted on rolling on one of those banners if there was a VI one. A fair amount of trash as you'd expect, but a bunch of nice stuff like Mog BSB, Strago BSB and Celes BSB2 that are never on the same banner together.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:23
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I'm actually really torn about the FFXIII banner because of Raines' BSB, but I still don't know if it's worth it.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:24
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RagnarokAngel posted:It's kinda weird to look through your inventory and see the occiaisional 5* with a shared SB or without an SB at all and be reminded that these were things that existed. And we justified it as "Hey a 5* is at least a stat stick right?: Ask me about my two 8* swords that don't have any SBs.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:26
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ceaselessfuture posted:I'm actually really torn about the FFXIII banner because of Raines' BSB, but I still don't know if it's worth it. Just say no. Don't do it.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:32
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Boogaloo Shrimp posted:Ask me about my two 8* swords that don't have any SBs. I have an 8* FFXII sword with maxed out augment slots (JUST BECAUSE I COULD). Still my best beat stick in the realm.
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Aug 12, 2017 07:39
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Leroy Dennui posted:I got Platinum Sword (very first 11x relic banner pull!), Ultima Blade and whatever armor is giving my Onion Knight Sword & Spell and I just started playing this past Sunday Platinum sword is one of the best relics in the game giving you both party wide haste and an attack damage boost in a neat package. Ultima Blade is Cloud Cycle? That's an insanely strong BSB and you'll need BSBs as your hones will be bad for a while. If that Barret thing is Hyper Grenade Bomb, an AoE Pentabreak, it's really drat good but if it's something else I haven't seen it. Sword & Spell is the exact opposite. It's useless for you now since it calculates damage from the user's stats and OK is only good at level 99 due to his miniscule stat gain prior to 92. After the user is strong enough to actually utilize it it's a good OSB. Despite what the popular opinion seems to be there are no bad OSBs in this game or at least I haven't seen one. I use Sword and Spell quite frequently especially vs omniresist. I also use Lightning's Thunderfall OSB often enough and have used it as a key component in some rougher clears like the 250 Sephiroth.
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Aug 12, 2017 08:10
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ApplesandOranges posted:I think it basically boils down to: can the banners be better? Yes. Are they trash? Not necessarily. Are they trash because they exist right next to a superior FFVII banner? Yes, unless you really want to gamble on getting one of Aerith's Medicas. The short form is that 7 and 10, at the very least, are very bad realms for getting good Unique SBs. You have Lunatic High, Clear Tranquil, Focus... anything other than that is going to require high amounts of squinting and the most convoluted justifications you can imagine. 13 is better, though it still has some stinkers. If there was a 6 banner? A 12 banner? Hell, even a FF5 banner? Those complaints would be much less prominent. As it stands, though, we're sitting at the dead center of a perfect storm of ancient dinosaurs and experiments that failed. My Grand Glove - my first ever relic - is consistently outperformed by +++ base-4* swords. It's outperformed out of synergy by 5* off-synergy fists. It's practically Gold Sword tier. For a SB, Tifa gets a single 4.80x hit. Essentially, Full Charge with a hard 9999 damage cap. The Buster Sword isn't much better. God help you if you draw a Silver Barette, or when we get the FFX banner, an Official Ball or Magical Mog. These SBs don't help, and in fact to a beginner they might muddy the waters, make them latch themselves to a character with a Bad SB because "SBs are important, otherwise I wouldn't have these". They're bad stat sticks because nobody else can use them. And they're just as likely to be pulled out of a "lucky" draw like this as any actually good relic. Zurai posted:Not really, no. Some banners are better, yes, but a new player really does need equipment badly. Going into fights with any 5 star weapon and armor is night and day versus going into fights with 4 star poo poo. Unlike most of you, I actually made an alt account -- for a while there was a possibility that DeNA was going to start encrypting data and the way around that would require actually changing their code at runtime so I made a separate account to sacrifice to the very low chance of a ban in response -- and I needed that account to be able to clear up to the highest level of content in the game in order to gather data with it. I challenge any of you to beat a battle on the level of U+ Mandragoras with a 2 week old account and zero relevant gear, since everyone seems to believe that having no gear is better than having synergy gear around here. I've done that fight with a two week old account. It took me five hours, and the only way I was able to even attempt it is that I pulled a synergy stat stick for my mage and a little bit of armor for people to wear. Using 4 star rods would have completely prevented me from winning. So tell me - do you think these are an adequate replacement for the Vol 3 Keeper's Choice and Dr. Mog's Selection Vols 2 and 3? Because that's very likely what they're here for.
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Aug 12, 2017 10:13
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ceaselessfuture posted:I'm actually really torn about the FFXIII banner because of Raines' BSB, but I still don't know if it's worth it. On one hand, XIII has the least amount of Unique Trash among the Newcomer's Luckies. On the other hand, XIII is gonna be tied with VII as the most common realm in the DU LDs for the next Six Months... You can definitely wait.
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Aug 12, 2017 12:02
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KataraniSword posted:So tell me - do you think these are an adequate replacement for the Vol 3 Keeper's Choice and Dr. Mog's Selection Vols 2 and 3? Because that's very likely what they're here for. Yeah, that's the sad reality here. The SSB selection banner isn't really that much of a loss from my perspective because it didn't have anything great on it JP side, especially for an established player. But not getting that probably also means the BSB selection doesn't come either and that had both good and even fairly new things on it. Hopefully that's wrong though, I really don't want you guys to have to miss out on that stuff.
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