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witchcore ricepunk posted:Asumutrice!! No more than 17 humans exist on this island!!
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Aug 12, 2017 06:00
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Kanon is actually Kinzo in a wig.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:01
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Neopie posted:
Asumu has been dressed as Kyrie this entire time. Kyrie is the one who died.
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Aug 12, 2017 06:48
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ZiegeDame posted:Though that does remind me, I thought of a little game we could play to fill the time while Prof is on break. Think up the most ludicrous, batshit theory you can that doesn't contradict any red truth we've seen. I'm talking poo poo that'll make small bombs seem reasonable. Knox's rules need not apply. 
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Aug 12, 2017 08:13
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PetraCore posted:Hmmm. I guess the thing is we know Yasu 'wrote' the stor(ies) in 1983, but we don't know who's writing in the present day, only that they have some connection to Battler. The person writing in the present day is Hachijo or acting through Hachijo, but I don't think Hachijo is Yasu because if she was, why does she need to work to figure out which story is the one that actually happened? Shouldn't she know? She could be another personality who doesn't have the repressed memories maybe, and leading on from that, ZiegeDame posted:Though that does remind me, I thought of a little game we could play to fill the time while Prof is on break. Think up the most ludicrous, batshit theory you can that doesn't contradict any red truth we've seen. I'm talking poo poo that'll make small bombs seem reasonable. Knox's rules need not apply. Everyone on the island (except Battler) is another personality of Yasu's, multiple people seeming to show up at once is due to experimental hologram tech the Italians were working on that they stole from the submarine. Battler leaving the family meant he didn't know they decided to go to Eva's place this year. Or Only Battler is Yasu, the Shannon and Kanon thing is just misdirection.
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Aug 12, 2017 09:04
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Yasu escaped Rokkenjima after the murders, managed to get in on the ground floor of video game development, and pioneered the mystery genre in gaming with the critically acclaimed, but unfortunately named, "Super Seagull Murder Island 64," the name "Umineko When They Cry" having been shot down by the marketing department.
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Aug 12, 2017 09:43
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Everyone except Shannon and Battler is Yasu. They're just trying to play matchmaker extremely hard.
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Aug 12, 2017 20:35
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this whole series is Battler/Maria/Jessica/George writing a murder mystery. The adults are quietly disturbed that they keep getting killed off.
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Aug 13, 2017 03:20
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Tired Moritz posted:this whole series is Battler/Maria/Jessica/George writing a murder mystery. The adults are quietly disturbed that they keep getting killed off. Rudolf would ask why he isn't being murdered in more creative ways.
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Aug 13, 2017 03:30
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Dr Pepper posted:Rudolf would ask why he isn't being murdered in more creative ways. He would - he was the kid that wanted to pet the wolves. Kyrie would point out the plotholes.
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Aug 13, 2017 03:39
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Robindaybird posted:Kyrie would point out the plotholes. Such as Kinzo's wife not killing anybody/everybody for the infidelity.
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Aug 13, 2017 04:30
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 Battler... what is your story implying about Shannon? I'm just saying she probably wants to bang me, dude. Aha, that's cute, but- Haha, yeah, it's not like George onii-chan puts out at all! Battler probably would be better! What?! If I were not furniture... I would call you an embarrassment of a boyfriend. Uu~! Pathetic! Utterly shameful! Kuhahahahahaha! Grandfather, you're dead in this story! Why do you approve of this?! Because it's hilarious to see you strike bust! Wahhahhahhahhahhahha!! Battler, my friend, I have a fantastic idea for a demon version of Genji...
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Aug 13, 2017 04:37
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Man, when he's not being The Worst Parent Ever™, Kinzo seems like a real hoot to be around.
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Aug 13, 2017 04:41
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Cackling madly and shouting OOOOO~OH BEATRI~~CIE is great at parties
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Aug 13, 2017 08:34
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ZiegeDame posted:Though that does remind me, I thought of a little game we could play to fill the time while Prof is on break. Think up the most ludicrous, batshit theory you can that doesn't contradict any red truth we've seen. I'm talking poo poo that'll make small bombs seem reasonable. Knox's rules need not apply. I'll do one better and give you a culprit that actually fits Knox.  Knox's 1st. It is forbidden for the culprit to be anyone not mentioned in the early part of the STORY! The Boat Captain is actually mentioned fairly early in the story. He is therefore a valid culprit. The only red truth that interferes with this theory is the idea that there are only seventeen people on the island. Yet, this says nothing about Boat Captain staying just outside the island with a sniper rifle. A combination of accomplices, murder devices set up before the days of the incident and being a loving amazing sniper can explain every Twilight, for every game. I can totally go over every single one of them if necessary. You may, of course, try to deny this simple truth by pointing out the next Knox... quote:Knox's 8th. It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED...!! But I will counter that clues for it have, in fact, been presented. As of Episode 7 we have been given ample reason to understand Kinzo's insanity and his lack of confidence among others. With that being the case, would he really trust a random boat captain to sail near his private island? Would you really put it past Kinzo that he would know the man personally? I say no. I say that it's improbable that Kinzo wasn't paranoid that a man with a boat could uncover his hidden mansion. So this was possibly - nay, LIKELY, a man who Kinzo knew personally. Someone who maybe had a hint about Beatrice's mysterious past. Maybe this curiosity brought him to sail around the island, to catch a glimpse of this hidden mansion...and that's when he discovered everything. Kinzo's abuse of Beatrice, dating back to WW2. What a fiend! But Boat Captain would not let this stand, for he is an angel of justice who was also a trained sniper. I even propose that the man pretending to be the man from 18 years ago was, in fact, Boat Captain. He found out about the extent of Kinzo's sins and concluded that all the Ushiromiyas needed to die. He decided to risk staying out in the storm in order to give himself an alibi. Maybe his boat turned into a submarine because he was a secret agent in WW2, something that is possible given Rokkenjima's military past. This was his motive. He was but a soldier, on the path of revenge. He was but the blade for Beatrice's wishes. Naturally, one might bring up the Red Truth from episode 4 as a counter. quote:Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you. I proclaim that Beatrice, the Endless Witch, is actually the brand name of the bullets the Boat Captain uses. He branded them so, because the Endless Witch needed to be mass produced in order to kill every single despicable Ushiromiya. Battler, at that point, had already been shot - he was bleeding out, but he didn't realize. His feverish dying dreams drowned out the truth. The Boat Captain is the Mastermind, Gohda is his accomplice, Beatrice is his motive and his bullets. Don't even try to deny it. You know it's the truth.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:17
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You know, I did speculate that 18th Human could have included boat captain in the count. Additionally, we know from Ange's story in Episode 4 that Boat Captain did in fact know about the secret mansion, because he delivered supplies to the secret dock. Makes you think
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Aug 13, 2017 20:27
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The portrait of Beatrice fell on Battler and crushed his head, all of this is a coma dream. Soon he will wake up and everyone will live happily ever after with their partners who are alive and not imaginary.
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Aug 13, 2017 23:15
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if he's sitting on his boat, he's technically not on the island.
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Aug 14, 2017 01:17
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Okay, saw the original thread pop up in the archive and have just caught up. Gotta say, thank you ProfessorProf for doing this and doing it well and thank you thread for some great discussion and analysis. Even though we know that witches did everything through magic. Ahahaha.wav
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Aug 14, 2017 10:35
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Umineko's first episode was released ten years ago today. To celebrate: MWF updates resume tomorrow!
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Aug 17, 2017 13:51
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Man I feel so drat old, I still remember getting into it in the space between EP 3 and EP 4 and obsessing over it, writing theories and reading crazy predictions. What a wild ride and it's been fun to relive it in a way through this LP.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:55
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I don't know why but I find the umineko anime so ugly looking. I don't feel the way with higurashi so idk what's the problem.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:33
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Tired Moritz posted:I don't know why but I find the umineko anime so ugly looking. I don't feel the way with higurashi so idk what's the problem. Deen's QUALITY was in full force in a bad way.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:36
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In the Higurashi anime, everyone going weird and off-model serves a purpose, because it amps up the weird paranoid atmosphere. In Umineko, it's just sort of there because Deen is bad at art and because Higurashi was popular.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:37
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As said, the stuff that made the Higurashi anime work also is why Umineko's is so loving bad.
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Aug 17, 2017 17:13
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People keep saying this. I remember thoroughly enjoying the Umineko anime when I watched it, fresh off of watching Higurashi, and being pissed that it never got the second season to explain what the hell was going on. I hadn't read any of the VN at that point, though. I wonder whether I would be equally mad at it if I went back and watched it again now.
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Aug 17, 2017 18:11
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Confused Llama posted:People keep saying this. I remember thoroughly enjoying the Umineko anime when I watched it, fresh off of watching Higurashi, and being pissed that it never got the second season to explain what the hell was going on. I hadn't read any of the VN at that point, though. I wonder whether I would be equally mad at it if I went back and watched it again now. In the anime, Battler sees a hand clearly belonging to Shannon's corpse in the shed during the first twilight of episode 1. Consider for a moment how that might change your deductions compared to how the scene is staged in the game.
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Aug 18, 2017 10:11
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 BGM: Fall   "I'm lending it to you. After all, I hate idiots. *giggle*giggle*. Call yourself Clair, as a temporary name. Or would you prefer Beato?" "...You have my gratitude. This way, I won't have to expose my pitiful form."Bernkastel had given Clair a fake form. It was a temporary form, for the person acting the part of Beatrice. A fake to fool those who still hadn't discovered Beatrice's true form...  "...Then... is this a tale... about me in another world?" "Lion. This is a tale of you in another world, and also my tale. The tale of the world where I live as a witch, not a human..." "...I am capable of imagining 'what if' scenarios for my own life. However, the tale you tell... is beyond anything, I can imagine..." "Even so, it's the life that another 'you' has led." "But still! That doesn't mean I can accept it easily."Lion suddenly yelled and looked at the floor. Lion already knew. Because of the Fragments lent by Bernkastel, Lion knew. This was a different world, where the same person lived as the Golden Witch Beatrice. And, in this world, eventually, on the day of the 1986 October family conference, this person would be the ringleader of a terrible crime.   "...Be quiet, listen, and figure it out." "In a different life, I end up as a servant! And if that wasn't enough, I suddenly become a witch! And then, I eventually carry out several terrifying murders...! How am I supposed to figure that out?!" "..." "Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I doubt anyone could understand. This person here thought that no one would ever understand. That's why you're here. That's why Bernkastel brought you two, two people who never should have met, together like this." "...It's not like I had any deep reason for it. It was just a whim." "It's a motive that no one else can understand, Lion, so you need to be the one to understand it. I'm not the main character in this tale. You are. I'm just here to help you understand." "You said that you understood the culprit's motive." "...I did." "Is it... a satisfying motive, for explaining why I'd kill my entire family...?!" "Who knows. That's for you to decide. Even if I say it's satisfying, that doesn't mean it'll satisfy you. You have to decide that for yourself." "I really don't have a clue what's going on...! I've seen several crimes called game boards that Beatrice supposedly carried out. And now, I'm hearing another me talk about a different life from mine. But none of that fits with the crime! I don't understand!!" "...At this point in the tale, even I... could not have dreamed that I would eventually carry out such terrible crimes. In fact, even if I could have dreamed it, I did not have the power to commit those crimes at that time." "Probably. Your misfortune probably came... when you solved the epitaph's riddle." "...Huh? You mean that epitaph about the hidden gold, which Grandfather supposedly wrote...?!" "First, a system for gaining different accomplices for each crime. Reasoning leads us to the possibility that the culprit possesses a vast amount of money. And, the other system... for inviting all to the Golden Land... and making all loves bear fruit." "...It wasn't just the motive. So, you've already seen that far." "That's the answer to the final riddle in the 4th game. Your great misfortune was solving the epitaph, reviving as the Golden Witch in the truest sense, and gaining magical power." "...Looking back, perhaps that was an ill-fortuned event. I do not know. However, as long as the fact that Battler-san returns in 1986 remains unchanged, some sort of tragedy would certainly have occurred." "That's right. If Battler had returned a year earlier or later, that incident might not have occurred."No, some small incident would probably have occurred. And it would surely have been a mysterious, impossible incident, which no one could understand. But even so, compared to the Rokkenjima serial murders, it would be a tiny thing... "...If Battler-kun... had returned a year earlier or later, then what?" "...Fate can be so filled with irony. It made me walk the path of a witch, and when I solved the epitaph, I became a true witch." "...Then, six years passed, and I learned of his return. If all of that was fate, then this crime must have been inevitable and inescapable for me." "In 1980, when Asumu, his mother, died, and his father remarried too soon for his liking, Battler left the Ushiromiya family. And for six whole years, he had no direct contact with the family."He convinced his grandparents on his mother's side to help him and had his last name changed to his mother's maiden name. Then, when those grandparents passed away, he finally made up with Rudolf... and returned to the Ushiromiya family again in 1986...  "...I did wonder. Why, after six whole years, did he finally come back?" "I understand. In a way, it would have been better for you if he had never come back." "Of course, my suffering would have continued. However, I would not have tainted myself with the unforgivable crime of mass murder." "...How could Battler-kun leaving create a motive?" "You've got it backwards." "...Backwards?" "The crime didn't occur because Battler left. It happened because Battler came back." "...The more I think about it, Ushiromiya Battler... was quite a disagreeable man. More than anything else, because he never realized that the outbreak of the crime was his fault." "He did remember, in the end. However, that was long after you gave up and disappeared." "...If that is so, then it would give my heart some peace..." "I don't have a clue what you two are talking about anymore. But I'd like to ask you straightforwardly. I want to know. What on Earth happened to you that made you decide to commit the crime?" "Yes. That's the most important part. Just like how Ushiromiya Battler respected the 'why dunnit' in mystery novels. In the tale of the Golden Witch and in the game, the answers to all the riddles are hidden there." "In that case, allow me to continue. 1980. Six years before I resolved myself to committing the crime."   BGM: Rose  "That's what Krauss-sama and Rudolf-sama were saying! What a shock!"  "...That Battler can get annoyingly stubborn. Sort of like someone else we know." "If you are unable to understand Battler-kun's feelings, I believe that would make you a failure as a father." "Enough, Natsuhi. I'm sure Rudolf was just trying to show how dedicated he was to raising Kyrie-san's child, in his own way." "That would be perfectly satisfactory if it happened next year. But why this year? He's still in his period of mourning. If you consider the timing of this pregnancy, one must acknowledge that Rudolf-san has acted disgracefully." "...Come on, don't be so harsh. This is my way of atoning for what I've done..." "Battler-kun feels as though he's resisting you for the sake of his departed mother, Asumu-san. I deeply understand how he feels. If he were here, I would like to hold him and cry along with him."Natsuhi's words were sharp. They pierced Rudolf mercilessly. Rudolf had no retort. His relationship with Kyrie had been improper, plain and simple. According to Rudolf, he had been close to Kyrie longer than Asumu. And, even after his marriage to Asumu, that relationship had not disappeared...  So, that just means you've been betraying Mom from the start!! Sure, I know Kyrie-san. You've told me that she was your business partner and a friend whose advice you could always rely on! If you're trying to say after all this time that she was more than that, then why should I give a drat?!! Now that Mom's dead, you can do whatever you want! I'm right there with you, saying that you should live life as you please! But just when did Kyrie-san get pregnant?! Back when Mom was still alive, right?! Yeah, now I finally see! This is why you always make me want to vomit! Are you glad that Mom is finally dead now? You are, aren't you?! I'm sure it'd have been so hard on you, keeping your infidelity and even a kid secret while Mom was still alive!! But now that Mom conveniently kicked it, you get to marry Kyrie-san, and I get a new little brother or sister!! You can bet that Mom's crying in heaven!! You bastard, you're embarrassing!! I'm embarrassed!! So embarrassed I can't stand to have the same last name as you!! The kid is completely guiltless. He or she'll need two parents to look after him or her. Go ahead and build a new family to give that kid a happy life!! But I'll never forgive you!! Mom isn't here to hate you anymore!! So I'll hate you in her place!! With all of my body and soul!! So long, old bastard!!   "That is enough, Natsuhi. Rudolf hasn't lost the affection he feels for Battler-kun. It may take some time, but he wants to fix their relationship one day." "As any father should. This is your own flesh and blood son. This is clearly your responsibility." "...Go ahead. Despise me all you want. I won't argue. That's the only way I can atone." "At the very least, make sure you give the new child a happy life." "...The new kid... and Battler. They're both my kids." "Wedding Kyrie-san after Asumu-san's death may have been painful for Battler-kun, but it was the best choice you could make for the coming child. I understand why you did it." "And I understand why Battler-kun felt like telling you that you were happy Asumu-san is dead." "Stop, Natsuhi. Rudolf has already been scolded enough from the person most fit to do so." "...Now then, how about some black tea? Could you go ask someone in the kitchen to make us some?" "...Understood."Natsuhi took this as a signal to leave the room and did so. Once she left, Krauss relaxed slightly.  "Almost as though... Asumu knew that, and stepped down from the stage of her own choosing. Did I kill Asumu...? If so, then how long has it been since I started killing her..." "If you still treasure Asumu-san's memory, then, though it may take several years, you must fix your relationship with Battler-kun." "...Yeah. I know." "And be sure to pour just as much affection on Kyrie-san and the new child that is to be born. While also bearing Asumu-san's cross." "...If they have reserved seating in hell..." "...Hmm?" "If they did, I'd like to reserve myself a spot near the top..." "..." BGM: Rain   "...This is a matter for the family. We servants have nothing to do with it. Instead, we should focus on memorizing the face of the newest member of the Ushiromiya family, Kyrie-sama." "Yes, that's true. She will be coming to the family conference this year..."If the person who would be joining the Ushiromiya family would be coming to the conference... Then what about the person who just left the Ushiromiya family...?  "That seems the most probable outcome. How lonely is the loss of a single, noisy man."Though most people felt a bit lonely to see Battler leave the Ushiromiya family, they didn't think any more about it than that. However, what about Shannon? Wasn't Battler supposed to come for her on a white horse...? I was surprised at first. I thought that, since he had left the family, he might not be coming to this island anymore. If we consider Battler-san's feelings, this is only natural, I guess. I understand painfully well why he wanted to leave his family... But, does that really mean he won't come to Rokkenjima anymore...? What on Earth is going on? Will he really never return? Unable to ask him this directly, I was forced to live each day fretfully... Battler-san. I understand how you feel... But... To say that you'll never return because you've abandoned your family... That's a lie, right...? I was so confused that the world seemed to be spinning around me... I have a tight feeling in my chest, and I can't think about anything. When I happened to touch my cheek, I was surprised to find it hot and wet. 
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Aug 18, 2017 13:33
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TheArchimage posted:In the anime, Battler sees a hand clearly belonging to Shannon's corpse in the shed during the first twilight of episode 1. Consider for a moment how that might change your deductions compared to how the scene is staged in the game. Aha! Thank you! I remembered someone had said something about the anime showing a blatant contradiction, but at the time, discussing what it was would have been a spoiler. I'd meant to ask. For what it's worth, though, I'm still not mad at the anime for that. I 100% understand how a mistake like that could happen in a transition from a predominantly text-based medium to a predominantly visual medium, considering that the anime was made before Chiru came out. They obviously shouldn't have done that, but given that they did, I get it. ProfessorProf posted:
...Huh. Suddenly I wonder whether what Rudolf wanted to tell Battler about his birth was that he's Asumu's biological son, but not Rudolf's... That's possible, right? The red that Battler couldn't repeat included the full name "Ushiromiya Asumu," yes?
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Aug 18, 2017 14:37
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the Umineko anime looked really bleached out for some reason. also if Shannon/Sayo and Lion are the same, why do they have different hair colors?
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Aug 18, 2017 14:39
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Tired Moritz posted:also if Shannon/Sayo and Lion are the same, why do they have different hair colors? Artistic decision, I would guess; happens all the time in anime and other works of this type. Remember, Lion's just supposed to be Lion, but every time we've seen Yasu in the story, they've been either pretending to be someone else or been allowed to present themselves as other people by the storyteller (Berne, in this case). So it doesn't really matter what hair color Yasu's hair is, because it's probably just a wig. But hey, so Battler left and thjen came back, and that is the trouble... didn't I say something like that last thread? Dark implications as to what that means stir, but it could still be a couple of things at this point, so let them stir. On the plus side, I like how offended Natsuhi is acting here, pretty much saying what I thought when I found out Rudolph was a philanderin' rear end in a top hat. And I like that, while Krauss told her to lay off, he's not letting anyone off the hook either... I sometimes flip flop around who's the best couple between Krauss/Natsuhi and Hide/Eva, as they both seem, at this juncture, to be pretty good partners as far as being helpmeets are concerned. And Rudolph, for his part, does seem guilty as hell; not so guilty that he didn't do whatever he did, but the thread of weakness among the Ushiromiya men continues apace I guess.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:32
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Lion bleaches their hair because they actually lead a biker gang at school, as one does in 80's Japan.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:40
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resurgam40 posted:And I like that, while Krauss told her to lay off, he's not letting anyone off the hook either... I sometimes flip flop around who's the best couple between Krauss/Natsuhi and Hide/Eva, as they both seem, at this juncture, to be pretty good partners as far as being helpmeets are concerned. Natsuhi/Krauss stole my heart with that scene where she reminisce when he wanted her to eat the nut that cause mouths to bleed. though that manga page where Hideyoshi cries about his dear wife Eva was cute too.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:47
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Tired Moritz posted:Natsuhi/Krauss stole my heart with that scene where she reminisce when he wanted her to eat the nut
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Aug 18, 2017 15:50
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Confused Llama posted:...Huh. Suddenly I wonder whether what Rudolf wanted to tell Battler about his birth was that he's Asumu's biological son, but not Rudolf's... That's possible, right? The red that Battler couldn't repeat included the full name "Ushiromiya Asumu," yes? Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son. No one except Kinzo's grandchild Battler is qualified to be her opponent. Ange is...my little sister. So, Ange is Battler's little sister, Kinzo's grandchild (probably - this one is never stated), and Battler is not Asumu's son. I think there's only one thread that fulfills all these conditions.
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Aug 18, 2017 15:55
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Ok, what's most interesting from this update is the fact that the crime occurred specifically because Battler returned in 1986, that if it happened a year earlier or later, no murders. So what about 1986 specifically makes it such a big deal? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that's when George proposes to Shannon. One year earlier and she can dump George (if they're even dating in 1985, they probably haven't been for long) and confront Battler directly. One year later and she's already Ushiromiya Sayo and even if she does go the the family conference with George she probably pranks Battler pretty hard but she could already be on the way to unifying personas or whatever so no need to go to great extremes. But in 1986 the stage is set for a final battle between different personas and whoops Beato is the one who specializes in executing unsolvable crimes.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:07
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Tired Moritz posted:Natsuhi/Krauss stole my heart with that scene where she reminisce when he wanted her to eat the nut that cause mouths to bleed. though that manga page where Hideyoshi cries about his dear wife Eva was cute too. Betel/Areca nuts don't cause your mouth to bleed, lol. They just dye it red (and apparently also give you cancer if you chew them for many years). Krauss and Natsuhi are my favorite of the Ushiromiya sibling couples. Eva and Hideyoshi are also a good couple, but Eva is a pretty lovely person. While Krauss is also not exactly a good guy, the biggest difference between Krauss and Eva IMO is that Krauss's malice seems limited to the other Ushiromiya siblings (who he has a hosed up history with). He's stated to have always been kind to Kanon (trying to start conversations with him and stuff), and I don't think we ever see him being mean to anyone other than the siblings (like the servants, etc). Eva, on the other hand, is also willing to treat unrelated people like poo poo (like Shannon regarding George). Regarding Natsuhi, I'm somewhat willing to excuse her poor treatment of the servants since her whole situation is pretty lovely, what with having been forced into marriage and having to deal with Krauss's tremendous gently caress-ups regarding blowing all the Ushiromiya wealth.
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Aug 18, 2017 16:59
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Cyouni posted:Ushiromiya Battler is not Ushiromiya Asumu's son. Right... so what if Asumu gave birth to Battler before her name was Ushiromiya, is what I'm saying. Although that probably is overcomplicating things, especially since, as you point out, Battler still has to be Kinzo's grandchild. ZiegeDame posted:Ok, what's most interesting from this update is the fact that the crime occurred specifically because Battler returned in 1986, that if it happened a year earlier or later, no murders. So what about 1986 specifically makes it such a big deal? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that's when George proposes to Shannon. One year earlier and she can dump George (if they're even dating in 1985, they probably haven't been for long) and confront Battler directly. One year later and she's already Ushiromiya Sayo and even if she does go the the family conference with George she probably pranks Battler pretty hard but she could already be on the way to unifying personas or whatever so no need to go to great extremes. But in 1986 the stage is set for a final battle between different personas and whoops Beato is the one who specializes in executing unsolvable crimes. Yes! I think you've got it. That part had piqued my interest, too.
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Aug 18, 2017 17:00
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Confused Llama posted:Right... so what if Asumu gave birth to Battler before her name was Ushiromiya, is what I'm saying. Although that probably is overcomplicating things, especially since, as you point out, Battler still has to be Kinzo's grandchild. Clearly Asumu is actually Kuwadorian Beatrice's long-lost twin sister, and therefore Battler is still Kinzo's grandchild!
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Aug 18, 2017 17:04
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I remember when we were arguing about whether or not there was a conspiracy, and if so, whether some of the participants were bribed. 
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Aug 18, 2017 17:15
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