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It's infuriating how fast the idea that both sides were being violent is spreading. Some people will bend over backwards trying to explain how all this isn't just the white supremacist fault.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:29
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Then get a constitutional amendment passed saying "the above text does not apply to Nazis". Question: Do you also disagree with other restrictions to free speech that currently exist and hasn't caused America to explode, or is it only with nazi hate speech?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:29
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Then get a constitutional amendment passed saying "the above text does not apply to Nazis". No just kill Nazis. What's legal and what's moral aren't always aligned. They should be afraid to exist.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:30
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:ITT leftists argue for setting precedents limiting freedom of expression that will be used against them more than they ever will against Nazis. the precedents already exist. they're just only applied to minorities. hence why black panther rhetoric is incitement to violence, but nazi rhetoric isn't! hope this helps vincent van goatse
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Aug 13, 2017 08:30
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Party Plane Jones posted:Black kid got away I admit, I teared up a little at this. Good on Chuck for saving that kid, and thank God they're both relatively all right. Alive, at least. Prester Jane posted:Vindication So you've been scarily correct about how this bullshit's going to play out so far- what is your opinion on fighting back? I mean, actively punching Nazis? I'm all for it, but I admit, that's my gut speaking. Can/should violence be the answer here, or is there another way to defuse the situation? Vincent Van Goatse posted:I'm fine with punching Nazis. I'm also fine with kicking them or whacking them with pointy sticks. Same, and I'm not even American. The First Amendment is an inspiration tom people around the world, and preventing its misuse as a shield by loving Nazis is how America could and should claw its way back to global leadership.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:30
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WampaLord posted:By "everything in their power" I think it was clear I mean legally. No one's violating any constitution here, Matlock. I believe you'll find the constitution quite clear where their powers lie on this point then.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:30
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Gaunab posted:It's infuriating how fast the idea that both sides were being violent is spreading. Some people will bend over backwards trying to explain how all this isn't just the white supremacist fault. Yup! I told you guys, white people will always get the benefit of the doubt. By tomorrow afternoon half the country will believe the protestors 100% deserved it because they provoked the dude in the car with rocks or by refusing to clear the road or whatever other bullshit, that the white supremacists were peaceful until the counterprotesters started fights, etc. Literal Nazi flags aren't enough to make people 100% against these fuckers. Both sidesism is a disease.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:31
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Gentleman Baller posted:Question: Do you also disagree with other restrictions to free speech that currently exist and hasn't caused America to explode In general yes I do.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:31
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muon posted:Nazis are extremely bad. They are also human, and as such, deserve 1st Amendment protection. This is not a defense of their speech or anything they endorse. It is a reminder that free speech is incredibly important to the health of any democratic endeavor and it is imperative that human rights remain inviolable. Most developed countries just have freedom of expression with laws against hate speech and that works just fine. The US freedom of speech has always been token anyway. You can be racist/sexist as gently caress against the groups with less power but if what you say pisses off the government then it will find all manner of ways to gently caress you up. Dejawesp fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 08:32
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:In general yes I do. Is this the part where you wax poetic about how oppressed that Google prick was now?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:33
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Lightning Knight posted:Is this the part where you wax poetic about how oppressed that Google prick was now? that would be a treat 
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Aug 13, 2017 08:33
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muon posted:I believe you'll find the constitution quite clear where their powers lie on this point then. You're right, everyone leave the Nazis alone. I mean really, would all of this violence happen if the counter protestors were at work (where they should be) and saving up for the newest iphone?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:33
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Lightning Knight posted:https://twitter.com/marcushjohnson/status/896527250010648576 Can't wait till South Park does a "truth-in-the-middle" episode about this.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:33
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Nazi ideology should fall outside the protected classes of speech for two reasons: 1) Absolutely none of it is redeemable. Historically Nazis are the go-to Bad Thing. Present day they're still poo poo with no redeeming qualities. 2) Their end goal would be to take over and restructure our government and society in ways that would render us into a completely different kind of nation. Therefore in any form they exist as enemy combatants. They contribute absolutely nothing of worth to our society now, and given their past it seems extremely unlikely they'll magically just work this out at some point. We lose nothing by specifically making Nazi stuff out of bounds and leaving the rest alone. We can maintain the spirit of the amendment and still ban Nazi stuff.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:34
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Google Butt posted:You're right, everyone leave the Nazis alone. I mean really, would all of this violence happen if the counter protestors were at work (where they should be) and saving up for the newest iphone? Why would they need to do that when obamaphones oh god I can't even finish this gently caress everything
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Aug 13, 2017 08:34
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Google Butt posted:You're right, everyone leave the Nazis alone. I mean really, would all of this violence happen if the counter protestors were at work (where they should be) and saving up for the newest iphone? Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:35
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muon posted:Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for. Tell me, have you ever heard of this event called "the Holocaust?"
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Aug 13, 2017 08:36
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muon posted:Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for. I don't think absolute free speech in all cases is a human right. Other western countries certainly don't think it is.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:36
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muon posted:Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for. Speaking is ineffective at curing Nazism. A stronger remedy is required. This, for example, would be perfectly reasonable: Chinese tourists arrested for Hitler salute in Germany
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Aug 13, 2017 08:37
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Lightning Knight posted:Is this the part where you wax poetic about how oppressed that Google prick was now? No because I was specifically talking about the first amendment. Bringing up that squalid little poo poo getting fired by his employer for being as rear end in a top hat is disingenuous.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:37
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muon posted:Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for. Please do not advocate for treating Nazis as equals. That is what I am asking for.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:37
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muon posted:Please do absolutely everything in your power to speak out against the Nazis and their hateful, abhorrent views. At the same time, please do not advocate for removing their human rights. That is what I am asking for. Just like that counter protestor's right to be a human was removed, right?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:37
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people have a lot of lovely opinions the world isn't made a better place if people are empowered to voice 100% of them all of the time; in fact every rear end in a top hat piping up whenever they want causes conflict where is this line drawn? that's a good question. but unrestricted free speech is not an obtainable ideal (it's inevitably given exceptions and double standards favoring entrenched power) nor should it be sought because it does not have good results
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Aug 13, 2017 08:38
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Google Butt posted:Just like that counter protestor's right to being a human was removed, right? Note who the guy who did it is now in jail.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:38
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remove the human rights of nazis
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Aug 13, 2017 08:38
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Andrast posted:I don't think absolute free speech in all cases is a human right. Other western countries certainly don't think it is. it's not even a right here lol like we have clear and present danger that turned into imminent lawless action but it's really hilarious when people gloss over that like some itt
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Aug 13, 2017 08:39
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Note who the guy who did it is now in jail. This doesn't make things any better though???
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Aug 13, 2017 08:39
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The USA should learn from other countries that have a Nazi problem and deal with it sensibly, like Germany.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:39
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Note who the guy who did it is now in jail. Oh word?
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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Gort posted:The USA should learn from other countries that have a Nazi problem and deal with it sensibly, like Germany. cough cough hate speech codes cough cough
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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This is what I was talking about yesterday for fucks sake. gently caress this "I disagree with them but will allow them to say it" bullshit. gently caress you and gently caress everybody who thinks that.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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WampaLord posted:Speaking of Richard Spencer, prepare for Round Two: Florida Man Edition reads like they can, and are hiding behind some 'freedom of speech' nonsense actually
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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hack wheeze banning nazi symbols and insignia cough cough
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Note who the guy who did it is now in jail. I'm sure this is a great comfort to the dead and wounded. Maybe something should have been done to prevent it getting to the point where twenty good people are getting mowed down by hateful shitstains.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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Gort posted:The USA should learn from other countries that have a Nazi problem and deal with it sensibly, like Germany. No, they should be free to express their opinions and also form a party so they can be represented, they could call it the "Nazi Germany Party"
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Aug 13, 2017 08:40
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I genuinely can not understand the minds of people who believe defending the right to incite violence is more important than defending people against said inciting of violence.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:41
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Gort posted:The USA should learn from other countries that have a Nazi problem and deal with it sensibly, like Germany. Everyone back the gently caress up and lol at the fact that post 1945 Germany has a way better track record on dealing with Nazis than the United States does.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:41
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This is one of those "we know the answer but not the reason why" things. I am not a math person, but it is my understanding this arises in that field from time to time. The answer to the question of which ideas and kinds of speech are worth banning is Nazis. How does the formula work? What other possible answers are there? We just don't know. We only have the one answer so far.
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Aug 13, 2017 08:41
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Gort posted:I'm sure this is a great comfort to the dead and wounded. Maybe something should have been done to prevent it getting to the point where twenty good people are getting mowed down by hateful shitstains. but vvg sympathizes more with the nazis and their rights rather than those of the people the aim to oppress 
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Aug 13, 2017 08:41
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Gentleman Baller posted:I genuinely can not understand the minds of people who believe defending the right to incite violence is more important than defending people against said inciting of violence. also incitement to imminent lawless action as has been mentioned before is not protected speech
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Aug 13, 2017 08:42
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