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Controllers are superior for pc shooters though. Much more comfortable, much more fun, higher precision fine movements in games that arent dumb.
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Aug 13, 2017 05:01
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GlyphGryph posted:Mouse and keyboard sucks for shooters though, I had to stop playing PC shooters when my last controller broke until the replacement came in because it was too painful to use garbo mouse and keys mode. Binary state locomotion is the worst and I hate it. You need to be less obvious when trolling
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Aug 13, 2017 05:03
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Analog movement control with mouse camera control would be pretty much ideal, if I'm honest with myself. e: Not for VR, though. Arm-swinging with momentum all the way, my dudes. e2: Realtalk, none of the existing locomotion methods are a perfect fit for everyone, which is why options are important. Ideally we'd all have Omnis or whatever the other brand thing is called, or hopefully there will be an even better solution soon. TheRagamuffin fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 05:10
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I like teleport... actually, I like Robo Recall's teleport the best, where you can also pick direction before warping.
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Aug 13, 2017 05:26
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Locomotion is immersive but teleport solves a critical issue, motion sickness. I hopped into lone echo and was done immediately after the tutorial. vr is neat but not worth feeling sick for 4 hours after 15 minutes of game.JazzFlight posted:I like teleport... actually, I like Robo Recall's teleport the best, where you can also pick direction before warping. Yeah it's really intuitive and easy to grasp, within a few levels I was zipping around with ease.
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Aug 13, 2017 05:41
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GlyphGryph posted:Controllers are superior for pc shooters though. Much more comfortable, much more fun, higher precision fine movements in games that arent dumb. Do people actually play shooters with 2 free floating hand controllers? That must get tiring quick. I haven't even played a VR shooter but that just seems like a totally wrong control interface for that kind of game. Unless your in game avatar has 2 free hands, I don't see how 2 free hand controllers is suitable for anything else.
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Aug 13, 2017 05:48
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Shaocaholica posted:Do people actually play shooters with 2 free floating hand controllers? That must get tiring quick. I haven't even played a VR shooter but that just seems like a totally wrong control interface for that kind of game. Unless your in game avatar has 2 free hands, I don't see how 2 free hand controllers is suitable for anything else. Onward. You are welcome.
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Aug 13, 2017 06:11
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JazzFlight posted:I like teleport... actually, I like Robo Recall's teleport the best, where you can also pick direction before warping. This is the best locomotion I've had so far, in a space with gravity.
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Aug 13, 2017 06:18
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Shaocaholica posted:Do people actually play shooters with 2 free floating hand controllers? That must get tiring quick. I haven't even played a VR shooter but that just seems like a totally wrong control interface for that kind of game. Unless your in game avatar has 2 free hands, I don't see how 2 free hand controllers is suitable for anything else. Sure? Every VR shooter except for one has used your hands, its quite fun and traditional fps play kinda feels stale afterwards in a lot of ways.
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Aug 13, 2017 06:21
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Shaocaholica posted:Do people actually play shooters with 2 free floating hand controllers? That must get tiring quick. I haven't even played a VR shooter but that just seems like a totally wrong control interface for that kind of game. Unless your in game avatar has 2 free hands, I don't see how 2 free hand controllers is suitable for anything else. Some games where you hold one rifle, people get stands to put both controllers into so they can hold it like a rifle. But games like Arizona Sunshine where you can hold two guns and shoot with both hands? Yeah you use two hand controllers so you can shoot with both hands. It is  Most VR games actually have "2 free hands" because that's the control scheme that Oculus and VIVE come with. Super Hot, Arizona Sunshine, Hover Junkers, poo poo, even things like Job Simulator are mostly about having 2 free hands because... humans have 2 hands? "I haven't even played a VR shooter" play one and you'll understand? IDK man. What do you even expect? Of course you don't understand thing you haven't tried.
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Aug 13, 2017 06:42
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Darke GBF posted:Beat 1-5 and X on Rez Infinite this afternoon. It was good, but easy. I had high expectations from hearing Giantbomb gush over it so much, and I thought it was very interesting but not a masterpiece or anything. Did you play with a motion controller? It was originally a gamepad game so being able to just point and click kinda trivializes it.
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Aug 13, 2017 06:50
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rage-saq posted:Onward. You are welcome. I heard people fasten the controllers together not just because they are gun nerds but its more ergonomic. Zaphod42 posted:"I haven't even played a VR shooter" play one and you'll understand? IDK man. What do you even expect? Of course you don't understand thing you haven't tried. I do intend to, just not there yet but from past experience with 'new' controllers it always doesn't work well with more traditional schemes. Like Wiimote steering wheel always felt odd because the wheel wasn't fastened to an actual column. Like I'm imagining a guitar game with 2 'free' hands would just be awful too without some fixture or totally different controller.
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Aug 13, 2017 07:02
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The thing that makes hand controllers different that's hard to visualize without trying them yourself, is that they are your hands. You look down and they're exactly where you expect your hands to be and doing exactly what you expect them to be doing. That makes them kind of the ultimate VR input because you never have to think about how to use them, you've been using hands all your life. At least in most games, some stuff has more complex abstractions that are a bit more video gamey. A dedicated gun controller or whatever, like they have on the PSVR, is super weird because at that point the gun becomes the lens through which you view the world.
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Aug 13, 2017 07:10
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Shaocaholica posted:I heard people fasten the controllers together not just because they are gun nerds but its more ergonomic. Touch is amazing. It's not a wii mote. Within a few min of using it you'll become a pro and it feels like using hands kinda. And 2 hand guns are great, people who need things to put controllers on never had an imagination. With touch it feels great. Holding a rifle is pretty satisfying in general. If you're a picky whiner, you may not enjoy it. I mean, we have people who can't get past VR is just blurry, so if you're that guy just duck out the thread now.
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Aug 13, 2017 07:10
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EbolaIvory posted:And 2 hand guns are great, people who need things to put controllers on never had an imagination. With touch it feels great. Holding a rifle is pretty satisfying in general. Wrong, pantomiming holding a rifle foregrip sucks and is worse than one handed aiming.
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Aug 13, 2017 07:18
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BMan posted:Wrong, pantomiming holding a rifle foregrip sucks and is worse than one handed aiming. Can confirm. If you've ever actually held one, you know you need it to be one physical object
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Aug 13, 2017 07:22
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PerrineClostermann posted:Can confirm. If you've ever actually held one, you know you need it to be one physical object Disagree. I have plenty of time at the range with an AR, and while it's not perfect, it's just fine if your arms work and again can imagine holding it. I also said "need" not "like having". Nobody said it wouldn't be "better". Hell kill zone on PS3 was a super good example of something with a weird gun was ideal. But it's entirely fun, feels good, and unless your tracking is hosed or the dev did a poor job of implementing it, so far I've not had any problems with 2 hand weapons. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 07:40
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Two opinions enter, one opinion leaves in the THUNDERDOME!
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Aug 13, 2017 07:54
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Playing H3VR or whatever its acronym is, I can tell you I can't aim worth a drat holding a virtual gun with freestyle motion controllers. There's far too much sway picked up by the motion trackers. Do other games compensate for that?
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Aug 13, 2017 07:58
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With the rift you can actually just take an archery stance and it works great and is fun. If you anchor your dominant hand on your cheek, float your support hand out, and just point at stuff, you can get some really natural and stable shooting done without a stock. It's pretty fun particularly in Pavlov with the AK, where you can line up the rear sights just about perfect. You just make a habit of gluing the top of your hand to the bottom of your chin or cheek or whatever. Then with the other hand, once you grab the foregrip of the gun in-game, you can stretch it as far out as you want and the gun will stay gripped and point in the same direction. All you're doing is making a cheekweld with your hand instead of a rifle stock by pantomiming shooting a bow/making a  pose
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Aug 13, 2017 08:02
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PerrineClostermann posted:Playing H3VR or whatever its acronym is, I can tell you I can't aim worth a drat holding a virtual gun with freestyle motion controllers. There's far too much sway picked up by the motion trackers. Do other games compensate for that? H3VR is the 'worst' for trying to use sniper rifles because yeah, there's zero correction unless you use a bipod. When we've tried doing 200m or more shoots, our only solution was to lay down and use all the pillows. The main issue is that with a long gun, you're supposed to use your entire upper body to stabilize and aim, which is impossible if there isn't a physical connection between the firearm and your shoulder. Which is why you get a lot of people scratch building things like this- 
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Aug 13, 2017 08:14
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JazzFlight posted:I like teleport... actually, I like Robo Recall's teleport the best, where you can also pick direction before warping. Robo Recall is the perfect example of a game that's designed with teleport in mind and feels absolutely essential to the core gameplay. If I have the option for free locomotion in pretty much any game I'll use it, but Robo Recall's implementation is probably the best I've ever seen. Again, the best choice for devs is to give as many options as possible, providing the game doesn't lean too hard on one locomotion type. I use Armswinger in H3VR because it's vastly superior to the stick based locomotion, and in DOOM 3 VR the teleport function is incredibly useful alongside stick locomotion as it lets you avoid some of the more awkward moments. E: I've never heard anyone bring up the argument that free floating controllers make no sense for shooting, that's utterly bizarre. One of the reason why there's so many shooters in VR is because shooting feels incredibly natural and it's not hard to slap together a few unity assets and pawn it off as a passable game. I could understand if it was a case of using the controllers as a gamepad with no tracking, that'd get old fast, but shooting with tracked ones (and even using rifles without a stand) feels super good. Songbearer fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 09:39
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Shaocaholica posted:I do intend to, just not there yet but from past experience with 'new' controllers it always doesn't work well with more traditional schemes. Like Wiimote steering wheel always felt odd because the wheel wasn't fastened to an actual column. Like I'm imagining a guitar game with 2 'free' hands would just be awful too without some fixture or totally different controller.  what does a guitar have to do with shooters?
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Aug 13, 2017 09:49
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Zaphod42 posted:
He's talking about how having 2 free floating hand controllers representing one real world object that is supposed to be held with 2 hands (like a guitar, steering wheel, or rifle) doesn't feel right. It was just another example. Besides a shooter where your weapon is a guitar would be awesome.
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Aug 13, 2017 13:51
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Def going to try the "dom hand to cheek" method when in Hot Dogs in the future. Love the pistols in that game, but hate any long guns because they're so fiddly.
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Aug 13, 2017 14:01
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GutBomb posted:He's talking about how having 2 free floating hand controllers representing one real world object that is supposed to be held with 2 hands (like a guitar, steering wheel, or rifle) doesn't feel right. It was just another example. The guitar thing specifically is kinda funny because the Touch controllers come with a bracket to mount one to a Rock Band guitar.
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Aug 13, 2017 14:18
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GutBomb posted:He's talking about how having 2 free floating hand controllers representing one real world object that is supposed to be held with 2 hands (like a guitar, steering wheel, or rifle) doesn't feel right. It was just another example. But it feels fine for a steering wheel as well. Richard Burns Rally VR proves this. Rifles feel great with hands. The key here is that the controllers represent hands, not the rifle or guitar or steering wheel. Therefore, interactions are extremely natural, more natural than mouse and keyboard or analog sticks.
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Aug 13, 2017 14:38
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Wait who the hell uses two hands to hold a guitar. what would that even mean. What hand do you use to play if you are using the other two to hold it? I dont get it. Also Echo Arena is pretty fun but I am really bad at it and it really does not work well with the vive controllers. Still cool though. Edit: I also found the TBS game I was looking for too, it was called Quar. Looking forward to playing it soon. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 15:57
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I don't mind using a two handed gun with two wands in stuff where it's more arcadey, like Zombie Training and Raw Data. Actually, Raw Data is good to bring up because the pump action on the shotgun is so satisfying and fun to use with two wands. More realistic stuff like Pavlov I have a much harder time. GlyphGryph posted:
make sure you turn off all the stick rotation axes, it helps a lot without a stick and when you're using the touchpad for other stuff The Walrus fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 16:14
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does anyone want to play some raw data pvp in a bit add me http://steamcommunity.com/id/torontowalrus/
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Aug 13, 2017 16:18
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Songbearer posted:
It really doesn't feel good with rifles, though. With nothing in your hands to stabilize them, aiming is incredibly unsteady. They're about putting the gun to your body to create multiple points of contact to steady the weapon. You can't do that with freestyle controllers. Next time I'm in H3VR, I'm going to try this cheek controller method, but as it stands now I've never liked using a two handed rifle in VR.
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Aug 13, 2017 16:24
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If you absolutely need it to be rock solid, best solution I've found is the XCOM sniper hold, where you fold your weaker arm under the 'rifle' and grip your dominant forearm/elbow. I do that when I need zero sway, though shifting aim is slow as hell. Best pic I could find, watch any firing animation from the EU/EW snipers and you'll see it. EDIT- Obviously this limits you to one-handing any guns which is still not ideal.
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Aug 13, 2017 16:40
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gently caress me an X Com game in VR would be great. God's eye view on the tactical overhead view. Grab and move soldiers. When aiming, switch to a first person view for that soldier and aim yourself, with built-in sway that scales with accuracy modifiers. Also, when a soldier dies you get a first person view of the grisly death.
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Aug 13, 2017 18:57
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GutBomb posted:He's talking about how having 2 free floating hand controllers representing one real world object that is supposed to be held with 2 hands (like a guitar, steering wheel, or rifle) doesn't feel right. It was just another example. I know but its kinda stupid to complain "man these shooter games suck" and then start talking about something that doesn't exist in shooter games. Most shooter games, like I just finished saying, have two guns, so that's not a problem. Or you walk with one hand and you gun with the other. So he added the guitar example which doesn't apply to shooters. A game like a guitar you wouldn't want to use hand controllers anyways; you'd want a peripheral. Either a guitar controller like rock band or a full on real guitar like rocksmith. The hand controllers aren't for poo poo like that. But they work aces with 1 gun or 2 guns.  GlyphGryph posted:Wait who the hell uses two hands to hold a guitar. what would that even mean. What hand do you use to play if you are using the other two to hold it? I dont get it. How are you this dumb. They mean playing it with two hands you jabroni.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:26
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bobfather posted:gently caress me an X Com game in VR would be great. God's eye view on the tactical overhead view. Grab and move soldiers. When aiming, switch to a first person view for that soldier and aim yourself, with built-in sway that scales with accuracy modifiers. Disagree, I find that "god's eye" VR games are fun novelties for a few minutes and then I wish I was playing on a real monitor instead. DOTA2 and Air Mech both support this among others, and ... it just doesn't really change the game that fundamentally. Its cool as a spectator mode, but for actual game play.... it wears thin. And I say this as somebody who grew up playing X-COM and TFTD as a kid. I love X-COM. But VR X-COM would have to be like, a co-op squad shooting adventure. Where you actually walk around. Maybe use turn-based movement to make the VR locomotion more comfortable or something? IDK. Like turn-based co-op valkyria chronicles but you actually shoot with your hands...
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Aug 13, 2017 19:28
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Zaphod42 posted:Disagree, I find that "god's eye" VR games are fun novelties for a few minutes and then I wish I was playing on a real monitor instead. Does DOTA2 support this only in spectator mode? Anyway I disagree. I love god's eye VR games, and I'd rather play them in my headset than on a flat monitor. Why? Because it feels so much more immersive that way, especially with the addition of stereoscopic 3D.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:39
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Zaphod42 posted:
Teleportation functions as a turn-based mechanism in a way already. Expand and tune it further to replication that functionality. I agree with you on most games remaining better on a monitor. People are a bit too jazzed up about their novelty accessory
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Aug 13, 2017 19:41
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Zaphod42 posted:I know but its kinda stupid to complain "man these shooter games suck" and then start talking about something that doesn't exist in shooter games. Well, the GOOD shooter games have 2 handed weapons. Where you hold a rifle like you would a real rifle. One firing hand and one hand stabilizing the barrel. It allows for incredible accuracy compared to 'everything is a giant pistol' that other games like Robo Recall allow (which is why RR has aim assist). As far as periphrials go, there are some high quality VR stocks you can get that make it a lot like a rifle periphrial. The top flight one is https://www.protubevr.com I've got one and I love it. I've put in so many hours in Onward and H3VR with it.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:44
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rage-saq posted:Well, the GOOD shooter games have 2 handed weapons. Where you hold a rifle like you would a real rifle. One firing hand and one hand stabilizing the barrel. It allows for incredible accuracy compared to 'everything is a giant pistol' that other games like Robo Recall allow (which is why RR has aim assist). Why are you telling me all this poo poo that I already know? I was explaining that to one of the VR newbies. Dude I've been in this thread forever; I know. Lmao seriously. I've had conversations in this thread about those stocks with other goons already. Duuuude.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:46
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rage-saq posted:Well, the GOOD shooter games have 2 handed weapons. Where you hold a rifle like you would a real rifle. One firing hand and one hand stabilizing the barrel. It allows for incredible accuracy compared to 'everything is a giant pistol' that other games like Robo Recall allow (which is why RR has aim assist). Seconding this, going full high speed low drag with saq in Onward is an absolutely phenomenal experience. Being able to actually aim further than two feet in front of you and get a bead on someone is a massive game-changer.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:46
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