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A friend and I had an interesting conversation today, after a third (white) co-worker walked over and interrupted to tell us that we shouldn't use the N word at work. It was kind of a surreal moment, because like 15 minutes ago this dude was talking about a really loving raunchy rear end story that grossed out half of the kitchen staff there. It was kind of a knee jerk reaction to tell him to gently caress off, but honestly afterwards when we talked about it, my friend was wondering if he should stop talking the way he does at work. I as a white guy, didn't have much to say on the subject, dude should be able to express himself how ever the gently caress he wants, especially when no-one else watches there mouth at work. If no-one else is walking on eggshells to be proper, I don't see why he doesn't. I guess I'm wondering if I said the right thing, or if there's better advice I could have given him. To be clear, I don't use slurs at all, but was wrapped in the complaining because the friend was talking to me. Other White dude ended up complaining to shift lead who also told him to gently caress off.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:54
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You (white) should never use the n-word. Not at work, not at home, not anywhere. It's never appropriate or justified. Same goes for your friend if he isn't black, and since I have a hard time imagining a white guy having the balls to confront a black person over that (directly, tone-policing articles on respectability are different), I'm guessing he isn't. As a side-note, kitchen culture being a cesspit of machismo and bigotry is actually a bad thing that should be changed. Kudos on your random coworker for taking a tiny step in that direction.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:09
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My friend is black, I did not say that word, he verified to the shift lead I didn't say that word. The white guy complained about both of us to the shift lead, because I was involved in a conversation where the word was said. E: The other white dude moved here for school he's from some bougie place, and really isn't going to be working here longer because he can't handle the kitchen at all. (Physically, not culture wise, which I wish was different.) Turtlicious fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Aug 14, 2017 |
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Aug 14, 2017 10:15
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"Liberal thinks nobody should use that word." sounds like a pretty good Onion headline.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:46
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Did you do some sort of ninja edit on your first post or am I going insane? Anyway, I kind of wonder what's motivating your friend think about a change. There's arguments for decorum/professionalism or just making the kitchen less crass overall which would be reasons to shift, but otherwise you're right that he shouldn't have to moderate himself in that kind of environment especially if the boss is fine with it.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:52
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If he's black let him say his word it's a kitchen for fucks sake
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Aug 14, 2017 14:31
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Found this via the Trump thread: https://twitter.com/medievalpoc/status/897122421353918464 (Also a reminder to follow medievalpoc on Twitter).
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Aug 14, 2017 21:58
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highme posted:Wish I would have seen that yesterday. Yeah, I wish I'd heard about it sooner, we only found out about it from a friend late Friday night, so our going to it was very spur of the moment. None of the Black dudes at my work had heard of it when I asked them today, so any advertising was pretty low key, but it still had a good sized turnout for being the first event of it's kind and hopefully next year it will grow as the word gets out more. In other news, Shonda Rhimes (and her production company ShondaLand) just signed a deal with Netflix and is leaving ABC, citing "creative freedom", which I'm hoping means more Afrocentric shows and casts and less having to make stuff that will keep old white men happy.
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Aug 14, 2017 22:25
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Endorph posted:i have a distant cousin who goes to uva and her boyfriend is black and apparently during all the poo poo that went down during those like 24 hours she was just holed up in her room having a continuous panic attack that she was gonna get raped and/or lynched for being a race traitor, so now shes in a hospital, still having a panic attack Can't handle E/N today
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Aug 15, 2017 17:53
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Hi. I need help figuring out some ideas and this community cares about these ideas so I am starting here. My ex colleague from my predominately white male industry (programming) is someone who "is not racist or sexist" because he "chooses to not see race and gender." My goal was to explain that gender and race are important identities and when he "chooses to not see race or gender" then he is essentially saying "I don't care about your race and gender." This led me to the whole new idea (to me) about how race can be an identity as well as gender. I refer to fluid racial identity as described here: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/06/16/how-fluid-is-racial-identity/race-and-racial-identity-are-social-constructs quote:Race is not biological. It is a social construct. There is no gene or cluster of genes common to all blacks or all whites. Were race “real” in the genetic sense, racial classifications for individuals would remain constant across boundaries. Yet, a person who could be categorized as black in the United States might be considered white in Brazil or colored in South Africa. I know there is a difference between fluid racial identity and cultural misappropriation. The best example I have is Rachel Dolezal growing up white and then suddenly identifying as black. But I need a little help figuring out to what extent it is different. Is there anyone else that has thought a lot about this and can share their insights?
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Aug 15, 2017 19:38
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CmdrRiker posted:Hi. I need help figuring out some ideas and this community cares about these ideas so I am starting here. Rachel Dolezal is a racist and a terrible human being. Hope this helps. Sigh. OK, here's a much more articulate article/interview by Ijeoma Oluo on that topic. Re your coworker, there's pretty deep violence in a person, who is the beneficiary of systemic (and overt) racism and sexism, "choosing to not see race and gender". Also maybe make a separate thread about this rather than coming into the black people thread to ask for help dealing with your racist white coworker?
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Aug 15, 2017 19:58
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Turtlicious posted:A friend and I had an interesting conversation today, after a third (white) co-worker walked over and interrupted to tell us that we shouldn't use the N word at work. It was kind of a surreal moment, because like 15 minutes ago this dude was talking about a really loving raunchy rear end story that grossed out half of the kitchen staff there. It was kind of a knee jerk reaction to tell him to gently caress off, but honestly afterwards when we talked about it, my friend was wondering if he should stop talking the way he does at work. I as a white guy, didn't have much to say on the subject, dude should be able to express himself how ever the gently caress he wants, especially when no-one else watches there mouth at work. If no-one else is walking on eggshells to be proper, I don't see why he doesn't. I wonder about this as well. I remember watching a youtube video about two white people arguing about whether or not it is OK to use black racial slurs no matter what the context. And the fundamental message was as described here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8vaJaFCFYA&t=1142s quote:Either all of (the racial slurs) are okay to use or none of them are okay to use. On one hand these are just two white people arguing about what is offensive on behalf of other communities, so I think they're both dumb. On the other hand, I see that all racial slurs are equally offensive or off limits. But I am a white woman and I haven't experienced any of this first hand.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:02
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Rachel Dolezal is a racist and a terrible human being. Hope this helps. I will read that, thank you. And I will stop derailing with my off topic questions. Sorry.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:04
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CmdrRiker posted:I will read that, thank you. Thanks. You're probably not seeing this, but coming into a black space and posting the opinions of some pretty ignorant white people about race is itself pretty racist and violent. Like really, if she wasn't probated, Tiny Brontosaurus would probably be screaming at you right now (and rightly so). To be a little more specific, racial prejudice is the daily lived experience of black people. They don't get to choose whether they're offended or not, and they don't get to choose to stop being black to make that prejudice stop, no matter what a bunch of internet white people you've linked may say.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:19
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Hey n black people I need to do some work in the community, can y'all tell me how to teach whitey that I'm white to even though I'm white? Thanks for being like totally understanding I dunno how you got sick a bad rep you're all good people in my eyes, we'll only my eyes
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Aug 15, 2017 20:37
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I hope people of color in Charlottesville are safe. My mom's family (who are Jewish) have been pretty horrified at the Neo Nazi activity but I imagine it must be way worse for a person of color living in that area.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:46
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Thanks. You're probably not seeing this, but coming into a black space and posting the opinions of some pretty ignorant white people about race is itself pretty racist and violent. Yeah. I respect TB and I understand (now) that what I did was entitled. I did a forum search for "Rachel Dolezal" and most of the recent posts about her were talked about in here. Her controversy is specifically about racial identity, so I thought it was a close enough place to start. But it could have just as easily been seen as "Negrotown? Sounds like I can demand that black people answer my questions about racism!" Veskit posted:Hey n black people I need to do some work in the community, can y'all tell me how to teach whitey that I'm white to even though I'm white? Thanks for being like totally understanding I dunno how you got sick a bad rep you're all good people in my eyes, we'll only my eyes Well, I can't control how you feel. Sorry.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:50
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CmdrRiker posted:Yeah. I respect TB and I understand (now) that what I did was entitled. I did a forum search for "Rachel Dolezal" and most of the recent posts about her were talked about in here. Her controversy is specifically about racial identity, so I thought it was a close enough place to start. But it could have just as easily been seen as "Negrotown? Sounds like I can demand that black people answer my questions about racism!" Please educate yourself.
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Aug 15, 2017 20:56
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Yes, thank you. Was my response (which prompted these links) still incredibly entitled and rude? Should I just show myself out of this thread now?
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Aug 15, 2017 21:02
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What I like about Tiny Brontosaurus is how many people she has gotten to come around on their attitudes about race. On the Internet, there's very little incentive to change your opinion and when you combine it with white privilege there's even less. So I believe every person that chooses not to double down with her to be trying to make a positive effort. As other posters have joked, the barriers to allyship are tissue thin, and it mainly requires listening to people of color and their experiences. Reading through the thread can give you a lot of resources.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:09
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CmdrRiker posted:Yes, thank you. Was my response (which prompted these links) still incredibly entitled and rude? Should I just show myself out of this thread now? Yes, please read more and lurk more. Especially read articles written by POC. This is good advice: Panfilo posted:As other posters have joked, the barriers to allyship are tissue thin, and it mainly requires listening to people of color and their experiences. Reading through the thread can give you a lot of resources.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:17
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Panfilo posted:What I like about Tiny Brontosaurus is how many people she has gotten to come around on their attitudes about race. On the Internet, there's very little incentive to change your opinion and when you combine it with white privilege there's even less. So I believe every person that chooses not to double down with her to be trying to make a positive effort. TB first caught my eye when she hooked her talons into me about something I posted. I think it was whether or not it is boring to discuss specific fashion trends in a thread about the retail industry. She knocked me down a peg and it was magnificent. Lead out in cuffs posted:Yes, please read more and lurk more. Especially read articles written by POC. OK.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:18
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Veering slightly off the topic of a white person's story, here's my brown person's story. I'm high off a combination of fash bashing and the regular amount of drugs. White Dude, you should go to the black side of town where ever you are at and go see Who's Streets. It's probably not at your regular theater, because of reasons to do with how film distribution works. But look up on Fandango and go see where it takes you. Who's Streets is a fine documentary that shows the story of your police department lighting stuffed toys on fire with gasoline. Nicely done, it is a fine aggregation of cell phone videos of the hateful action. Then it adds context with the national news clips. It is fascinating to see the hard core militarized responce to the BLM memorials and how all of that is absent from last weekend's home depot tiki torch invasion. White Dude reading the Negrotown thread, in the process of doing that homework you will become an Ally who knows what to say to his lovely boss. White Genocide Pay for the ticket with real people money, supporting businesses is important. It is a real tangible good that you can do. It is worth "Ally Points". No one is gonna rob you.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:22
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KirbyKhan posted:Veering slightly off the topic of a white person's story, here's my brown person's story. I presume White Dude to be me, and I found out Whose Streets? is playing locally in my city. I will go see it this weekend. Thanks. And yeah, back to lurking now.
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Aug 15, 2017 21:40
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Also moving away from white centring, here's a Decolonising Science Reading List by Dr. Chanda Prescod-Weinstein, a black, queer woman astrophysicist: https://medium.com/@chanda/decolonising-science-reading-list-339fb773d51f#.om5w2ivfq
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Aug 15, 2017 21:46
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Just a sort of PSA announcement to anybody valuing their sanity this evening. Trump literally just finished a 15 minute tirade defending the Nazis that stirred up so much poo poo last weekend and things look like they're going to radically get a whole lot worse. Everyone stay safe.
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Aug 15, 2017 22:09
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Just a sort of PSA announcement to anybody valuing their sanity this evening. As a person of color living in a vastly white area, it's gotten more vocal and intense since last year. We were planning on moving anyway, but this is hastening the process for sure.
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Aug 16, 2017 02:50
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Vintimus Prime posted:As a person of color living in a vastly white area, it's gotten more vocal and intense since last year. We were planning on moving anyway, but this is hastening the process for sure. I'm sorta in the same boat. County where I live went 75% for Trump. County where I work went a bit over half for Hillary. What I'm experiencing is that white folks just straight up do not want to engage at all about any of this. They're "sick of politics".
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Aug 16, 2017 03:16
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Morby posted:I'm sorta in the same boat. County where I live went 75% for Trump. County where I work went a bit over half for Hillary. What I'm experiencing is that white folks just straight up do not want to engage at all about any of this. They're "sick of politics". Interesting. That hasn't really been my experience as a white dude talking to white people. Someone I've had a hard time with earlier on some things has come around in a pretty big way. I think now's a pretty good time if any white allies want to actually earn that second word.
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Aug 16, 2017 03:40
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My experience has been people that were already supportive have gotten much more vocal, but the moderates remain a turgid mass of obstruction. But let's talk about something much cooler, like this guy!  Cory Long improvised a flame thrower out of a paint can and used it to defend an old man. True American hero; the Root has an interview with him http://www.theroot.com/interview-how-corey-long-fought-white-supremacy-with-f-1797831277
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Aug 16, 2017 06:51
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He needs to get a tattoo on his bicep that says "this machine kills fascists." 
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Aug 16, 2017 06:57
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xthetenth posted:Interesting. That hasn't really been my experience as a white dude talking to white people. Someone I've had a hard time with earlier on some things has come around in a pretty big way. I think now's a pretty good time if any white allies want to actually earn that second word. Well MLK already talked about white moderates and how much of a pain in the rear end they can be. It's nothing new. These same folks had nothing to say about the police killing unarmed black folks, either. The problem isn't the folks openly saying racist poo poo. It's the people around them that don't want to "cause drama" so they let it go.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:01
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It's a bit of an old article, and I would link the research paper but since I'm no longer a student I don't have access to all those lovely scholarly libraries. It's related to the topic of transracialism, in that one's own self-perception of race and others perception of one's race can change with incarceration. Such that once incarcerated, interviewee's and interviewers were both more likely to identify an individual as black even if they were identified as being white before. The study was called "The Race of a Criminal Record: How Incarceration Colors Racial Perceptions" if anyone has access to the Journal.
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Aug 16, 2017 13:39
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https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/897850686544728064
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Aug 16, 2017 17:02
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Brainbread posted:It's a bit of an old article, and I would link the research paper but since I'm no longer a student I don't have access to all those lovely scholarly libraries. General PA, but public libraries can provide the general public access to journals and databases. Might not let you just link to the whole article, but if anyone wants to look this up and isn't a student, that's the best way.
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Aug 16, 2017 19:52
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While I appreciate the posts in the trump thread this is not the black pain dumping grounds where we post links and skip off.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:04
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yeah, thats hosed up(then again most of danys plot is) in the books if i remeber correctly, its not as racist looking. most of the slaves are valerians who a white and pale as gently caress. so i doubt D&D will handle the subject well, even if its well meaning. then again i dont think man in high castle handles stuff that well either. but thats just me.
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Aug 16, 2017 20:14
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there wolf posted:My experience has been people that were already supportive have gotten much more vocal, but the moderates remain a turgid mass of obstruction. But let's talk about something much cooler, like this guy! arnt those things dangerous. i dont mean to the nazi, gently caress them, i mean like i read the cans can explode if used wrongly(flame to close, heat buildup) either way corey is loving awsome. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Aug 16, 2017 |
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Aug 16, 2017 20:16
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Dapper_Swindler posted:arnt those things dangerous. i dont mean to the nazi, gently caress them, i mean like i read the cans can explode if used wrongly(flame to close, heat buildup) either way corey is loving awsome. Looks like it's less a matter of using them wrong than just having bad luck with propellant vs. flame speed. The fuel needs to come out faster than it's burning or the fire will likely heat up the nozzle enough to compromise it and you get a nice fireball. I guess if it goes on long enough you could heat up the nozzle or the can itself enough to fail as well.
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Aug 17, 2017 01:58
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Aug 17, 2017 04:33
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