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madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Bert of the Forest posted:

It does seem to totally ignore/bypass one of the most important rules of proc-gen: ensuring there's always a possible path to the exit. It gets around this by literally not bothering to generate walls around a large radius outside of the level, so if you get stuck with a bad draw you can always walk around the drat level. :P it's quite possibly the laziest solution I've ever seen. Other than that, it's pretty good at teaching the basics of turn based roguelike mechanics.
Yeah the end result of this tutorial is going to be a barebones roguelike, but that's kind of the point -- you can grow it in a million directions from there because you have a solid baseline. When you do complete the tutorial, your questions will be things like "How can I generate interesting areas with rooms" instead of "How I put gaem on screen?"

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Oh hey, is it "working on roguelikes" chat? I have to confess I lost interest/time/energy in working on...uh, whatever that roguelike concept I pitched here was. The one with Grandia combat and Dredmor chargen. I got as far as implementing a very barebones combat engine before stopping.

My problem with gamedev is that I tend to be more interested in solving interesting development problems than I am in pushing through to finishing games. But hey! I found an interesting problem to work on: procedural map generation for a Metroidvania! I've made stabs at this in the past, and generally gotten bogged down in either "This map looks cool but lacks high-level structure, and I can't reason about it" or "This particular map looks cool, but 80% of the output of this program is duds in hard-to-characterize ways, and they take 30 seconds to generate apiece."

So I'm starting over with a much more abstracted view of the game world, and yes, thank you, my handle on these forums is appropriate.



White is the critical path, red is side-loops to go find powerups, and green is shortcuts. Gray is edges that were generated but then not used for anything. The numbers indicate the map scale; this map is 69x25 "rooms".

The shortcut placement algorithm is pretty stupid right now; that's what I'm working on fixing at the moment. The above graph took about a tenth of a second to generate, with very little eye towards making it efficient; I'm pretty happy with that compared to what I've achieved in the past.

The basic algorithm is:
  • Slap a bunch of overlapping rectangles down on the world.
  • Remove the overlapped edges.
  • Convert into a graph (i.e. nodes connected by edges)
  • Do a random walk to generate the critical path
  • Do some depth-first-searches (DFS) branching off of nodes on the critical path, that attempt to loop back to the early parts of the DFS
  • Do some breadth-first-searches (BFS) branching off of nodes on the critical path or the side paths, that attempt to connect to other nodes on the critical path or side paths.
  • Everything above this point is done, if perhaps done poorly; the below are super glossed-over.
  • Fill in unused space with short out-and-back routes (for e.g. lesser powerups, map rooms, recharge rooms)
  • Replace the graph with sequences of "rooms"
  • Assign properties to rooms: whether they have barriers, powerups, boss fights, etc, what difficulty level they are, what biome they have, what direction they are intended to be traversed in, how hidden/obvious their connections to other rooms are.
  • Fill in terrain/enemies within the rooms.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

madjackmcmad posted:

Sometimes I can't sleep because I'm thinking about how not enough people are playing Dmans. I've ruined both our lives!

TRIGER WARNING
I'm not playing your game. :smuggo:

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Jedit posted:

TRIGER WARNING
I'm not playing your game. :smuggo:
:shepicide:

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Jedit posted:

TRIGER WARNING
That is the worst, ugliest joke I've ever laughed at.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
I'd love to do a roguelike thing set in my weird science-fantasy dealio, but I should probably actually finish working on the tabletop game before trying to learn programming, let alone RNG manipulation voodoo. So, maybe in a few years.

V for Vegas
Sep 1, 2004

THUNDERDOME LOSER

StrixNebulosa posted:

You might want to look in here as it's an active community of people who want to help you make a roguelike.

I mean this is also the right thread, but I heard that reddit did a summer of making roguelikes and they have a bunch of threads on that, so!

Cool thanks, yeah I'm definitely at the "How I put gaem on screen?" stage, so dead easy stuff like this is what I'm after.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Finally managed Ao100 Max Carnage Ultraviolence! Postmortem; replay.

Didn't manage 100% kills, I missed something relatively early on and stopped caring.

Aggravatingly, one of my goals here was to build a Fire Shield (Red Armour + BTO), and I built RA + BT early on and then carried it around for the rest of the game without seeing a single Onyx Pack. Similarly, I found two Firestorm packs relatively early and then went 100 levels without seeing a single goddamn BFG.

Looking at the player sheet, it looks like this counts as a standard win for AoMC, but not for Ao100.

I guess my next goal is winning a standard game on UV.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

https://twitter.com/rocketcatgames/status/896439405585367040

I love transparent gamedevs

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
Just managed to beat Legend of Dungeon for the first time, using the Necromancer. Some advice:


  • Regardless of who you're playing, mobility is king; you need it to avoid damage, and you NEED it to sprint through the absolute clusterfuck that ensues when you try to ascend with a rescued character. Nimble and ethereal are the best enchantments in the game and the coffee mug is the best hat in the game. The sultan's coffee is a bad melee weapon due to its awful reach, however.

  • If you find a blacksmith, take off your hat and just spend every last penny upgrading it. Upgrading has a chance to add enchantments, and the item's enchantments are upgraded as well as its stats whenever the smith hammers it, so burning 1,000 gold on a good hat will usually land you with a godlike superhat that makes you atrociously fast and acrobatic. Very useful for running screaming from wraiths or jumping clear over huge mobs of assholes instead of bothering to fight them.

  • Keep your inventory organized. If you're not going to use something, throw it in a corner or in a lava pit. Having to stop to rifle through your stuff looking for a specific item will get you killed sooner or later.

  • Hoard potions. Don't start using them until you're running out of apples and have a big stockpile of potions; this lets you drink one from each stack and see which are beneficial. Don't throw away your bad potions - organize your inventory such that bad potions are in a designated area away from the good stuff, so any further bad potions you pick up simply stack into the "don't drink these" section of your items.

  • Huge slow weapons like the war hammer are usually a trap. The Knight may find them useful for their reach, but they're generally not as good as a decently fast weapon with good reach. You need to be fighting defensively and scoring hits without sustaining damage. The only exception to this is the Scythe as that thing will oneshot most enemies, but watch out - it doesn't hit enemies immediately adjacent to you.

  • Pick up a fire sword when you get the chance. It's not the best weapon and it's not as bright as the lantern, but it's one of the only weapons that lets you fight and still see what the hell you're doing in dark rooms. An absolute must-have unless you're the Knight and can just crush everything with the lantern using your freakish strength.

  • Immediately pick up every kitten you see. Dump your kittens in out of the way rooms you don't plan to return to. Trust me. You don't want to see what happens when one of them dies.

  • Don't play as the Knight if you're trying to win the game solo. He's great for unlocking other characters, but he's absolutely hosed if you run into a lot of Wraiths or Evil Warlocks, and god help you when it's time to face the final boss.

  • If you aren't playing as a no-magic character and you have the means to do so reasonably safely, you absolutely want to kill the Devil whenever you see him until you get his spellbook. Succubus summoning is one of the best spells in the goddamn game - it charges fast, you can have 10 of them out at once, and they move quick as hell and hit really hard. The Necromancer in particular can basically crush the whole dungeon with this spell and a modicum of caution.

Great little game :) I still need to unlock the Wizard but so far Necromancer is absolutely dope as hell.

Upsidads
Jan 11, 2007
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates


Angry Diplomat posted:

Just managed to beat Legend of Dungeon for the first time, using the Necromancer. Some advice:


  • Regardless of who you're playing, mobility is king; you need it to avoid damage, and you NEED it to sprint through the absolute clusterfuck that ensues when you try to ascend with a rescued character. Nimble and ethereal are the best enchantments in the game and the coffee mug is the best hat in the game. The sultan's coffee is a bad melee weapon due to its awful reach, however.

  • If you find a blacksmith, take off your hat and just spend every last penny upgrading it. Upgrading has a chance to add enchantments, and the item's enchantments are upgraded as well as its stats whenever the smith hammers it, so burning 1,000 gold on a good hat will usually land you with a godlike superhat that makes you atrociously fast and acrobatic. Very useful for running screaming from wraiths or jumping clear over huge mobs of assholes instead of bothering to fight them.

  • Keep your inventory organized. If you're not going to use something, throw it in a corner or in a lava pit. Having to stop to rifle through your stuff looking for a specific item will get you killed sooner or later.

  • Hoard potions. Don't start using them until you're running out of apples and have a big stockpile of potions; this lets you drink one from each stack and see which are beneficial. Don't throw away your bad potions - organize your inventory such that bad potions are in a designated area away from the good stuff, so any further bad potions you pick up simply stack into the "don't drink these" section of your items.

  • Huge slow weapons like the war hammer are usually a trap. The Knight may find them useful for their reach, but they're generally not as good as a decently fast weapon with good reach. You need to be fighting defensively and scoring hits without sustaining damage. The only exception to this is the Scythe as that thing will oneshot most enemies, but watch out - it doesn't hit enemies immediately adjacent to you.

  • Pick up a fire sword when you get the chance. It's not the best weapon and it's not as bright as the lantern, but it's one of the only weapons that lets you fight and still see what the hell you're doing in dark rooms. An absolute must-have unless you're the Knight and can just crush everything with the lantern using your freakish strength.

  • Immediately pick up every kitten you see. Dump your kittens in out of the way rooms you don't plan to return to. Trust me. You don't want to see what happens when one of them dies.

  • Don't play as the Knight if you're trying to win the game solo. He's great for unlocking other characters, but he's absolutely hosed if you run into a lot of Wraiths or Evil Warlocks, and god help you when it's time to face the final boss.

  • If you aren't playing as a no-magic character and you have the means to do so reasonably safely, you absolutely want to kill the Devil whenever you see him until you get his spellbook. Succubus summoning is one of the best spells in the goddamn game - it charges fast, you can have 10 of them out at once, and they move quick as hell and hit really hard. The Necromancer in particular can basically crush the whole dungeon with this spell and a modicum of caution.

Great little game :) I still need to unlock the Wizard but so far Necromancer is absolutely dope as hell.

Sure it's Legend of Dungeon?

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Junkie Disease posted:

Sure it's Legend of Dungeon?

Yeah :confused:

zirconmusic
Nov 17, 2014

Unstoppable Trash Panda

General Emergency posted:

Since the Steam launch I have played over 60 hours of Tangledeep. I think this might be an issue...

Buy Tangledeep.

:holy: Thanks

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

madjackmcmad posted:

Last winter there was an event right here in this thread where some folks went off to learn how to roguelike. Some of them are still at it, and we have a discord for talkin' 'bout roguelike making:

https://discord.gg/ny4mdw

It's not hyper super active but it is totally live. Also, yesterday on Twitch I used the first 90 minutes or so to help someone in there understand step 4 of the Unity roguelike tutorial.

https://unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/projects/2d-roguelike-tutorial

This discord invite is showing as expired, could somebody please post a new one?

madjackmcmad
May 27, 2008

Look, I'm startin' to believe some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying, it's starting to make a lot of sense.

Phrosphor posted:

This discord invite is showing as expired, could somebody please post a new one?

Permadeath!

This link is set to "never expire" which means it will die of hubris.

https://discord.gg/dBktUPJ

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

madjackmcmad posted:

Permadeath!

This link is set to "never expire" which means it will die of hubris.

https://discord.gg/dBktUPJ

Thank you!

Upsidads
Jan 11, 2007
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates



They made it fun?!?! I was all over it day one and just was so drat let down, I don't remember classes at all.

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009
20XX is finally out with a giant update after a 3 Year War on Early Access:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/322110/20XX/

Succumb to the most Megaman addled fever dream of goodness yet wrought by man and machine.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

ExiledTinkerer posted:

Succumb to the most Megaman addled fever dream of goodness yet wrought by man and machine.

The Protomen?
e:
Megaman meets Protoman

ee: hear " the year 200X," spoken aloud!

Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Aug 16, 2017

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

ExiledTinkerer posted:

20XX is finally out with a giant update after a 3 Year War on Early Access:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/322110/20XX/

Succumb to the most Megaman addled fever dream of goodness yet wrought by man and machine.

sir, this is a mcdonald's drive-thru roguelike thread

Harminoff
Oct 24, 2005

👽

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

sir, this is a mcdonald's drive-thru roguelike thread

If rogue legacy and dead cells fit here than so does this. Also, game is good.

Clever Spambot
Sep 16, 2009

You've lost that lovin' feeling,
Now it's gone...gone...
GONE....
Its super fun and also has very stable netcode for cooping, which is oddly rare in roguelites.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
Never knew about 20XX and now it's in my wishlist- thanks! MMX is one of the most perfect games ever made and this looks worthy!

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


ExiledTinkerer posted:

20XX is finally out

holy poo poo i wasnt sure it was ever going to happen

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
What's that? Dwarf Fortress is finally out of beta? Oh, it's actually Twenty-Eckstee-Ecks, you say? That's rad, too.

OutOfPrint
Apr 9, 2009

Fun Shoe

Pvt.Scott posted:

What's that? Dwarf Fortress is finally out of beta? Oh, it's actually Twenty-Eckstee-Ecks, you say? That's rad, too.

To be fair, it's easy to get the two confused, what with Dwarf Fortress getting out of beta in the year 20XX.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
In the year 20XX, the evil Doctor Wily uses Tarn Adam's code to corrupt the 12 robot masters!

Can snailman stop him?

spider wisdom
Nov 4, 2011

og data bandit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyqt5s_T1GE&t=5s

fake edit: oh I thought he actually said 20X6 in that one

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?
Never thought I'd see the Protomen referenced in the Roguelikes thread. :respek:

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.
Enjoying playing Dead Cells, although why do I insist on taking on Elite enemies when I should just leave them alone if they're not in my way?

Also is there a generally accepted good way to kill the 'Slasher' at the end of the Old Sewers? Both times I've been smooshed. Is it likely I was somewhat understatted and I should be OK with normal tactics?. I've blazed straight through the Incomplete One without even healing both times, and that is meant to be a more 'main' boss?

Too Shy Guy
Jun 14, 2003


I have destroyed more of your kind than I can count.



Jeza posted:

Enjoying playing Dead Cells, although why do I insist on taking on Elite enemies when I should just leave them alone if they're not in my way?

Also is there a generally accepted good way to kill the 'Slasher' at the end of the Old Sewers? Both times I've been smooshed. Is it likely I was somewhat understatted and I should be OK with normal tactics?. I've blazed straight through the Incomplete One without even healing both times, and that is meant to be a more 'main' boss?

Kill all elites at all times, forever; that's my policy. They're just regular enemies with a different cadence to their attacks, and even if you gently caress up you can rally back most of your health if you keep pounding on them. And they're full of so much good stuff!

The Slasher is actually an elite from an area you haven't been to yet, so the same rule applies except you haven't seen how the normal ones work. He does an absurd amount of damage really fast so you either need a super good combination of weapons and powers or to just dodge him for awhile and try to learn his patterns.

PureRok
Mar 27, 2010

Good as new.
Got the Rogue itch after firing up ToME again, and I was wondering if there are any good DnD/Forgotten Realms based roguelike out there?

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

PureRok posted:

Got the Rogue itch after firing up ToME again, and I was wondering if there are any good DnD/Forgotten Realms based roguelike out there?

Dungeon Hack is an old officially licensed DnD roguelike on DOS. It's notable for letting you tune the gently caress out of dungeon generation to get the level of challenge you want out of it. Or you can go with Incursion, which is 3rd edition with a bunch of wonky homebrew on top.

dis astranagant fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Aug 18, 2017

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

at least one of the members of the Protomen is a serial sexual predator and the band responded to the allegations by going "nah he's cool, we like him" and attempting to chase the accusers off the internet

Act II will always be an absurdly dope album but I can't really support the band in good conscience now, and it double sucks because they run Makeup and Vanity Set's label too :smith:

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

at least one of the members of the Protomen is a serial sexual predator and the band responded to the allegations by going "nah he's cool, we like him" and attempting to chase the accusers off the internet

Act II will always be an absurdly dope album but I can't really support the band in good conscience now, and it double sucks because they run Makeup and Vanity Set's label too :smith:

Wait, really?

gently caress, everything is terrible forever.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

at least one of the members of the Protomen is a serial sexual predator and the band responded to the allegations by going "nah he's cool, we like him" and attempting to chase the accusers off the internet

Act II will always be an absurdly dope album but I can't really support the band in good conscience now, and it double sucks because they run Makeup and Vanity Set's label too :smith:
Shitfuck, really? Source?

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

PMush Perfect posted:

Shitfuck, really? Source?

I don't have a link, one of the people involved told me directly in a discord chat and it was someone I'm inclined to trust.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

PMush Perfect posted:

Shitfuck, really? Source?

http://cloud3514.tumblr.com/post/118348851231/public-service-announcement
http://hold-back-this-night.tumblr.com/post/118457758628/in-regards-to-the-protomen

also lol nice one fans

quote:

The two ways I see this controversy turning out:
1. This Alanna person wants to destroy the cis white protomen from the south, and it isn’t working. They’re a good band and we’ll let the whole thing go, so long as we get act III.
2. TL and some others did actually do something that we have no details of, and we’ll let the whole thing go. So long as we get act III.

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!


does a random tumblr post count as a source now?

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Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead
I am going to politely suggest that discussion stop here and we get back to roguelikes.

(i am not a mod and am interested in the topic, but we're wandering far afield from the thread subject)

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