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get that OUT of my face posted:everybody knows that crowdfunded doxxing worked out very well when reddit tried to identify the boston marathon bomber That moronic stunt Glenn Beck pulled was abhorrent and I'm glad he got sued and had to settle.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:20
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Jizz Festival posted:The ACLU doesn't have to spend time and resources defending nazis. Free speech will not collapse if they ignore those cases. I'm not sure what's difficult to understand about this. The beauty of the ACLU is that it's consistent and non-selective. They actually DO have to spend time and resources defending the right of Nazis to march, just as they have to spend time and resources defending NAMBLA, who are he most garbage people imaginable. It's really loving cool that I can call the leader of the country a loving idiot rapist lizard-person, and that there's an organization that will defend my right to do so. That's why this forum gave them a poo poo ton of money after the election. I get that it's difficult to understand this. It's not immediately obvious how the ACLU defending pedophile's rights to publish horrific literature also protects our ability to cyberbully the president on twitter. But it does. It all has to be consistent or it doesn't work.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:28
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:The beauty of the ACLU is that it's consistent and non-selective. They actually DO have to spend time and resources defending the right of Nazis to march, just as they have to spend time and resources defending NAMBLA, who are he most garbage people imaginable. Please explain to me how free speech would fall apart if nobody defended NAMBLA and nazis.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:30
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Jizz Festival posted:Please explain to me how free speech would fall apart if nobody defended NAMBLA and nazis. ok, some assholes elected a judge that thinks gay pride can be met with an extermination order and because we made laws that ban viewpoints he has prior standing. Do you really want to give that rear end in a top hat judge precedent?
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Aug 15, 2017 05:41
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:The beauty of the ACLU is that it's consistent and non-selective. lol
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Aug 15, 2017 05:42
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Grognan posted:ok, some assholes elected a judge that thinks gay pride can be met with an extermination order and because we made laws that ban viewpoints he has prior standing. Do you really want to give that rear end in a top hat judge precedent? I haven't advocated making laws that "ban viewpoints."
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Aug 15, 2017 05:43
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In regards to supporting violence against fascists:
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Aug 15, 2017 05:47
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Speak for yourself, chumpsky.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:49
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comedyblissoption posted:In regards to supporting violence against fascists: In regards to supporting violence against fascists: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/st...of-cable-street
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Aug 15, 2017 05:50
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Like counter protesting is great, but lusting for open civil warfare seems to ignore the nightmare that open civil warfare is. Nazis deserve to be punched, but also given after wound care and an explanation about why they got punched.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:51
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Grognan posted:Like counter protesting is great, but lusting for open civil warfare seems to ignore the nightmare that open civil warfare is. Despite how I might come off I'm not actually for going out and punching nazis. I'm just not going to poo-poo about their civil liberties if people do that.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:53
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Jizz Festival posted:Please explain to me how free speech would fall apart if nobody defended NAMBLA and nazis. quote:The constitutional principle here, of course, is that government can’t censor our speech just because it doesn’t like what we say. But we’re not representing Mr. Yiannopoulos just out of an abstract principle. We’re also representing him because free speech is crucial to progress in civil rights movements. https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/how-could-you-represent-someone-milo-yiannopoulos
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Aug 15, 2017 05:55
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Call Me Charlie posted:https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/how-could-you-represent-someone-milo-yiannopoulos Blah blah same bullshit about how if any speech is trampled on it opens up an avenue for all speech to be trampled on. Like I said before it's complete bullshit because it's not perfectly enforced already, and imperfectly free speech still persists. It's not a flawless crystal that will be cracked and destroyed the moment a nazi isn't defended.
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Aug 15, 2017 06:00
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Grognan posted:Like counter protesting is great, but lusting for open civil warfare seems to ignore the nightmare that open civil warfare is. I can remember someone talking to me about sort of "socialist" they were years ago. One type was one that wanted to achieve power via peaceful steps (democratic elections, etc) and the other was the goal of achieving those things via violent revolution. He told me he was the former, and I nodded thinking nothing f it. I now definitely identify with the former. get that OUT of my face posted:everybody knows that crowdfunded doxxing worked out very well when reddit tried to identify the boston marathon bomber These are scary times right now. I imagine a good portion of these things were lurking in the shadows but Trump getting elected accelerated quite a few things and allowed those people into the sunlight. There's not a lot of room for nuance right now.
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Aug 15, 2017 06:01
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I'm not against punching Nazis, I do have a problem with punching people that someone on twitter said was a Nazi.
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Aug 15, 2017 06:09
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Jizz Festival posted:Blah blah same bullshit about how if any speech is trampled on it opens up an avenue for all speech to be trampled on. Like I said before it's complete bullshit because it's not perfectly enforced already, and imperfectly free speech still persists. It's not a flawless crystal that will be cracked and destroyed the moment a nazi isn't defended. Are you missing the point where the city of Charlottesville revoked Unite The Right's permits based off of the content of their ideas while allowing the counterprotesters' permits to stay in place? Are you completely lacking in imagination to see how that could be used against you or the causes you support in a country with Donald J. Trump as the president and the Republicans holding a massive amount of power in a number of states? That's why the ACLU do what they do. the most important part of that blog post you wrote off posted:But the sad reality is that many people think that speech about sexuality, gender identity, or abortion is over the line as well. They’ll say that abortion is murder, civil rights advocates are criminals, or LGBT advocates are trying to recruit children into deviant and perverse lifestyles. If First Amendment protections are eroded at any level, it's not hard to imagine the government successfully pushing one or more of those arguments in court. Call Me Charlie has issued a correction as of 06:43 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 06:27
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can't wait for a goon to finally take a stand and slice an entire regiment in half with his reverse hilt HADOUKEN KATANA using FOR GREAT SOCIAL JUSTICE FORBIDDEN STYLE-RYU
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Aug 15, 2017 06:39
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Call Me Charlie posted:Are you missing the point where the city of Charlottesville revoked Unite The Right's permits based off of the content of their ideas while allowing the counterprotesters' permits to stay in place? If the ACLU had done nothing, Unite The Right either wouldn't have gone to court and wouldn't have gotten the injunction, or they would have had to pay their own legal fees and probably gotten the same verdict. Paying for their defense, and thinking that it's good that their rights are being defended, won't win you Good Boy Points that can be cashed in for protection if the government decides to come after you.
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Aug 15, 2017 06:49
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Jizz Festival posted:If the ACLU had done nothing, Unite The Right either wouldn't have gone to court and wouldn't have gotten the injunction, or they would have had to pay their own legal fees and probably gotten the same verdict. Paying for their defense, and thinking that it's good that their rights are being defended, won't win you Good Boy Points that can be cashed in for protection if the government decides to come after you. Remove Unite The Right or Nazis from the conversation. [x group] had their permits revoked by [government] over [idea/position] while allowing the permits they granted for [y counter group] to stay in place. Why shouldn't the ACLU defend [x group] in court? You seem to believe that the denial of rights is cool as long as it's against a group you oppose but that isn't the way rights work. They're absolute.
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Aug 15, 2017 07:24
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maybe the aclu could wait until cool groups get denied, then work for them
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Aug 15, 2017 07:27
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got any sevens posted:maybe the aclu could wait until cool groups get denied, then work for them Maybe that's a dumb as poo poo idea because the precedent already got set.
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Aug 15, 2017 07:31
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HIJK posted:My argument is that they were not practicing free speech, they participated in a terrorist action that culminated in someone being murdered and five people in critical condition. Intimidation, coercien, and murder is not free speech, and they should be prosecuted as criminals. A better case for domestic terrorism could be made for antifa than the nazi retards at the rally. Byolante posted:Your post started ok and ended up defending an attempted spree killer. Probably should go back and try again. The point is that he might not have actually been an attempted spree killer, he might have just freaked out when someone hit his car with a bat and thought he was about to get jumped by the many people there also with bats. Not that he was there with good intentions or that I condone being a white supremacist, but he may have been there to scope poo poo out to see what they were up against after the shenanigans from the night before and reacted out of fear. And with that in mind, I wonder whether or not this guy feels responsible for poo poo at all: 
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Aug 15, 2017 08:03
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JUST ASKING QUESTIONS
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Aug 15, 2017 08:11
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got any sevens posted:maybe the aclu could wait until cool groups get denied, then work for them The ACLU defends everybody.
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Aug 15, 2017 08:16
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lohli posted:The point is that he might not have actually been an attempted spree killer, he might have just freaked out when someone hit his car with a bat and thought he was about to get jumped by the many people there also with bats. Not that he was there with good intentions or that I condone being a white supremacist, but he may have been there to scope poo poo out to see what they were up against after the shenanigans from the night before and reacted out of fear. You're white knighting a Nazi who drove his car into a crowd of innocent people and killed a young woman. You absolute piece of poo poo.
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Aug 15, 2017 08:18
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Call Me Charlie posted:Remove Unite The Right or Nazis from the conversation. Rights in the ideal world are absolute, but their enforcement here in the real world is not. I'm simply saying that the ACLU should let nazi cases become part of that great sea of potential cases that are never brought to court, or at the very least let them pay their own legal bills. And yeah I'm not going to shed a tear because the free speech of nazis or NAMBLA is being abridged. I don't have a duty to care about that right in an absolute manner in the hopes that my opponents will do the same. If you think free speech is going to be anything but the flimsiest of shields during a protest (especially if things get violent, as HIJK admirably demonstrated by explaining how participating in a riot isn't speech) then you're a fool.
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Aug 15, 2017 08:20
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Call Me Charlie posted:Remove Unite The Right or Nazis from the conversation. It sure is weird how things that make sense in a vacuum seem different when you live in the real world and context exists Are you a literal child Because if you are NAMBLA would like a word and the ACLU will make sure they can have it
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Aug 15, 2017 08:21
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Jizz Festival posted:Rights in the ideal world are absolute, but their enforcement here in the real world is not. I'm simply saying that the ACLU should let nazi cases become part of that great sea of potential cases that are never brought to court, or at the very least let them pay their own legal bills. glenn greenwald posted:Then there’s the back-up attack on the ACLU: OK, fine, I’m for free speech, even of Milo and Nazis, but why don’t they spend their resources defending free speech rights for good people rather than white supremacists? Nobody is forcing them to take these cases. As a recent Vox article on the ACLU debate put it: “Some question whether the organization should be using its resources to defend such awful groups of people. It’s one thing in theory to support universal free speech rights, but it’s another to actually spend time and money defending neo-Nazis.” This was one of the arguments made by ACLU lawyer Chase Strangio in objecting to the group’s decision to defend Yiannopoulous. https://theintercept.com/2017/08/13/the-misguided-attacks-on-aclu-for-defending-neo-nazis-free-speech-rights-in-charlottesville Call Me Charlie has issued a correction as of 08:26 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 08:23
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Oh goodness, if we don't perform the ritual defending of the nazi then the censorship principle will be enshrined and we shall all be doomed
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Aug 15, 2017 08:26
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quote:Then there’s the back-up attack on the ACLU: OK, fine, I’m for free speech, even of Milo and Nazis, but why don’t they spend their resources defending free speech rights for good people rather than white supremacists? Nobody is forcing them to take these cases. As a recent Vox article on the ACLU debate put it: “Some question whether the organization should be using its resources to defend such awful groups of people. It’s one thing in theory to support universal free speech rights, but it’s another to actually spend time and money defending neo-Nazis.” This was one of the arguments made by ACLU lawyer Chase Strangio in objecting to the group’s decision to defend Yiannopoulous. Oh drat didn't realise the budget thing went bad enough that the Obama DoJ was funded by donations Also fukken lol at trash person Glenn Greenwald comparing legal advice for foreign nationals being held in without charge in an insane offshore torture hellcamp to some nazis not being able to shout about genocide without people being rude to them
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Aug 15, 2017 08:32
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Jizz Festival posted:Oh goodness, if we don't perform the ritual defending of the nazi then the censorship principle will be enshrined and we shall all be doomed Let me try one more time to get through to you. This isn't about defending nazis in the hopes that nazis will help us one day like you stupidly think. It's about defending the absolute rights given to everybody by the constitution. Once you say those rights aren't absolute, especially in the legal system, you're opening the door for the same tactics used to suppress idiot nazis to be used against you and groups you support. same article posted:Beyond that, the contradiction embedded in this anti-free speech advocacy is so glaring. For many of those attacking the ACLU here, it is a staple of their worldview that the U.S. is a racist and fascist country and that those who control the government are right-wing authoritarians. There is substantial validity to that view. Call Me Charlie has issued a correction as of 08:39 on Aug 15, 2017 |
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Aug 15, 2017 08:37
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Call Me Charlie posted:Let me try one more time to get through to you. That door has been open for a long time, moron.
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Aug 15, 2017 08:38
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Missed the bit where the nazis are being suppressed by the government, that sure is a turnaround in policy by the current AG, Genghis Khan's retarded southern cousin Stop acting like their FREE SPEECH is in danger of being taken away. They have the tacit support of everyone who with the power to do so
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Aug 15, 2017 08:41
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Crane Fist posted:Missed the bit where the nazis are being suppressed by the government, that sure is a turnaround in policy by the current AG, Genghis Khan's retarded southern cousin Um, did you miss the part where the ACLU originally defended them before their rally? Or this part of the ACLU's statement on getting blamed for the violence? quote:“But let’s be clear: our lawsuit challenging the city to act constitutionally did not cause violence nor did it in any way address the question whether demonstrators could carry sticks or other weapons at the events. https://acluva.org/20108/aclu-of-virginia-response-to-governors-allegations-that-aclu-is-responsible-for-violence-in-charlottesville/
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Aug 15, 2017 08:56
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Somehow the people wanting to strip people's right to freedom of expression and to use violence to enforce a political orthodoxy are the anti-fascists.
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Aug 15, 2017 09:00
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quote:“It is the responsibility of law enforcement to ensure safety of both protesters and counter-protesters. The policing on Saturday was not effective in preventing violence. I was there and brought concerns directly to the secretary of public safety and the head of the Virginia State Police about the way that the barricades in the park limiting access by the arriving demonstrators and the lack of any physical separation of the protesters and counter-protesters on the street were contributing to the potential of violence. They did not respond. In fact, law enforcement was standing passively by, seeming to be waiting for violence to take place, so that they would have grounds to declare an emergency, declare an ‘unlawful assembly’ and clear the area. "Well imagine my shock when the police did not have our best interests at heart..." The ACLU is defending the right of violent nazis to gather in public, then when the whole thing turned out horribly and people died they're going "HOW UNEXPECTED that these nazis did violence and the police did nothing, oh well free speech"
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Aug 15, 2017 09:02
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Byolante posted:Somehow the people wanting to strip people's right to freedom of expression and to use violence to enforce a political orthodoxy are the anti-fascists. hmmm yeah when you think about it the anti-fascists are the real fascists you loving clod
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Aug 15, 2017 09:02
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Byolante posted:Somehow the people wanting to strip people's right to freedom of expression and to use violence to enforce a political orthodoxy are the anti-fascists. Lol wanting to look the other way as some nazis are denied a permit to do some dumb rally is a real travesty. Like seriously step back away from all these abstract notions of rights and look at what's actually happening in the real world and decide there are better things to worry about than the free speech of nazis.
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Aug 15, 2017 09:07
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Crane Fist posted:"Well imagine my shock when the police did not have our best interests at heart..." I know you're super outraged (and, by extension, blind stupid) right now but that quote you posted was condemning the government/police for not having the proper infrastructure in place to protect everybody and for trying to take short cuts to cut short an event they didn't want to take place in the first place.
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Aug 15, 2017 09:15
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Is this the last thread currently open with posters writing neo-nazi apologism?
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