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The Doctor rolling into the Dalek control room in Davros' chair, them all recoiling in surprise, and the Doctor going,"Admit it, you've had nightmares about this" cracked me up too 
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Aug 14, 2017 07:55
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Went to speak to my dad yesterday and saw he was watching an old episode of Death In Paradise. Since I haven't really watched much of it before, I concede that I can see Kris Marshall having been a decent Tennant 2.0... but probably only 10 years ago. I think he's just too old now.
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Aug 14, 2017 09:13
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His problem were those chuffing annoying BT adverts, he went from lovable guy in his early 20s to incredibly irritating because of them very very quickly.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:21
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Spatula City posted:I personally think Series 9's arc worked really well, because it was character-driven. The Hybrid was a season-long red herring/metaphor. Red herrings are exceptionally difficult to pull off satisfactorily - you need to have people invested in them so that the reveal means something, but not so invested that they feel cheated. I, and a lot of people in this thread, didn't even get the slightest bit invested in it and instead found it very tedious.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:23
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Red herrings are exceptionally difficult to pull off satisfactorily - you need to have people invested in them so that the reveal means something, but not so invested that they feel cheated. I, and a lot of people in this thread, didn't even get the slightest bit invested in it and instead found it very tedious. It honestly felt like Moffat wasn't really all that bothered by it either. The occasional '...like a hybrid' line felt horribly forced in and out of place.
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Aug 14, 2017 10:40
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It was so forced that it almost felt like a joke to me. Like, "whatever, I know you don't care about this arc poo poo anyway and you know by now it's just going to be a bait-and-switch". My theory of the Capaldi era's writing in general is that a lot of material is Moffat responding to criticisms of his writing from the Smith era, though it's been awhile since I rewatched a lot of those episodes so I forget how much of that bears out.
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Aug 14, 2017 13:49
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I've definitely thought the same. I thought Amy should have yelled at the Doctor for failing her in The God Complex and left him of her own free will instead of him just dropping her off, and Clara did that in Kill the Moon. I thought Amy shouldn't just accept never getting her daughter back in Let's Kill Hitler, and there was an echo of that in Clara wanting the Doctor to change time to save Danny in Dark Water. Back in series 6 when it leaked that the finale was going to be a bunch of time periods colliding in some kind of time explosion I was sure Amy was going to cause it by trying to rescue her baby, and then the Doctor nearly fractured time trying to save Clara in Hell Bent. It's been good poo poo.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:22
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It also feels like season 10 was a response to criticisms of seasons 7.5 - 9. Capaldi is a much softer, nicer Doctor to Bill, the writing is pretty overt in addressing some diversity concerns, there's an actual, second companion who's along for the ride, there's no romance or jealousy between the companion and the Doctor at all, Jamie Mathieson's episode straight up says it's the Doctor causing the collapse of capitalism, and they get Rona Munro, of all people, to write an episode. There are aspects of the finale that sort of mirror season 8 (the Master, Cybermen, the Doctor feeling like he's let his companion down, etc.), but whatever issues I have with Moffat, it does feel like he tries to learn from his mistakes, even if he can't help be an angry goblin when somebody interviews him.
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Aug 14, 2017 14:53
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Bicyclops posted:It also feels like season 10 was a response to criticisms of seasons 7.5 - 9. Capaldi is a much softer, nicer Doctor to Bill, the writing is pretty overt in addressing some diversity concerns, there's an actual, second companion who's along for the ride, there's no romance or jealousy between the companion and the Doctor at all, Jamie Mathieson's episode straight up says it's the Doctor causing the collapse of capitalism, and they get Rona Munro, of all people, to write an episode. There are aspects of the finale that sort of mirror season 8 (the Master, Cybermen, the Doctor feeling like he's let his companion down, etc.), but whatever issues I have with Moffat, it does feel like he tries to learn from his mistakes, even if he can't help be an angry goblin when somebody interviews him. As I've said to others, including I'm sure n these threads, Moffat falls into some pretty overly conservative and disappointing patterns when he isn't trying, but he doesn't seem to want to think those things. When he's putting his mind to actually writing PoC characters, or women or LGBT characters he's actually really good, the problem is when he's left on autopilot he goes all Let's Kill Hitler on us. So part of the reason season 10 worked so well was because all those thoughts were at the forefront. Especially with Bill, he couldn't lapse into his usual subconscious misogyny or anything because she was so overtly not fitting into that.
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Aug 14, 2017 15:10
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It's worth mentioning Capaldi's era is one big causal loop just like Smith's was, since the Master regenerating into Missy in his final adventure leads to Smith and Clara getting together and her saving his life on Trenzalore, after which they have some adventures with Missy, leading to the Doctor saving her from execution, leading to them winding up bumping into the old Master causing him to regenerate into Missy in the first place. Done a lot more quietly though, which is good because it avoids lingering questions like "well who blew up the Tardis and how"
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Aug 14, 2017 16:54
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Was it even established that Simm Master -> Missy is a direct regeneration?
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Aug 14, 2017 16:57
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When Missy stabs him he says "so now I'll regenerate into you?" and she says "welcome to the sisterhood" which isn't directly showing a scene of it happening but it's p close
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Aug 14, 2017 16:59
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Hmm, yeah I didn't remember that. That doesn't seem to leave any real room for doubt.
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Aug 14, 2017 17:05
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RIP to the creator of sonic screwdriver.
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Aug 14, 2017 18:17
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Pemberton's work was terrific, it must be said
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Aug 14, 2017 19:14
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He's the one who wrote the comforting speech that Two gives to Victoria (that we were talking about earlier), in fact.
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Aug 14, 2017 19:28
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My roommate is watching Heaven Sent for the first time ever. I kind of envy her.
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Aug 15, 2017 01:46
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Okay, rewatched the Zygon two-parter: Its major flaw is that Zygon-Clara/Bonnie/Whoever says things like "We were treated like cattle!" and the Doctor says "So what?" The beginning of it is a lot of UNIT military fluff, which I can take or leave, and Jenna Coleman does a great job being Zygon-her, but the Doctor's big speech needed to be about something besides Zygons. Pod people were not a good choice for this story. Peter Harness really is clumsy that way. The Doctor's speech would have been fantastic if it had been about two cultures fighting over something more utterly and completely pointless. The Zygon's have a point. They want to be themselves. Refugees is the easiest thing to reach for, but it could also apply to religion, gender identity, or sexual orientation. Why shouldn't they allowed to themselves? This should have taken place on an alien planet, with two cultures, both of whom we want to root for, who are on the verge of a major conflict over something totally and utterly petty. I want The Butter Battle Book, Doctor Who edition, with Peter Capaldi chewing up the scenery in the room with two boxes. Some of it, I suppose, is that Moffat wrote most of the speech Capaldi gives, which, combined with his performance, make it feel like something from a totally different episode. I suppose one other option would have been if Kate, or some other Earth military figure, was the one who was agitating, if Twelve was giving his speech to the humans instead of the Zygons. Basically, it pretends that Twelve is a sympathetic actor who's looking out for both sides, when, really, he's just looking out for the humans over "the other." That's one hell of a difficult premise to start from without coming off as regressive, and this two-parter doesn't have a writer with a touch for nuance. Also, because it's all I have to say about it, Sleep No More is less reprehensible, but it's an unsavable, boring turd of an episode that is badly written and badly filmed. At least the Zygon two-parter is elevated by some excellent performances; it's hard to act when all of the creators are working in a genre they don't understand, building toward a groanworthy twist, in which the horror is monsters made out of eye boogers.
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Aug 15, 2017 02:01
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Bicyclops posted:Also, because it's all I have to say about it, Sleep No More is less reprehensible, but it's an unsavable, boring turd of an episode that is badly written and badly filmed. It's really a shame that this is Reece Shearsmith's single foray so far into Doctor Who (his brief turn as Patrick Troughton aside).
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Aug 15, 2017 02:47
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Oh, Mark Gatiss is one of those "I can get married now so what are those trannies whinging about?" kind of gay people. That's a shame, I always tended to be a bit softer on him than other fans often seemed to.
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Aug 15, 2017 05:09
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"Things are just peachy for me, stop complaining" says wealthy white man
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Aug 15, 2017 09:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:"Things are just peachy for me, stop complaining" says wealthy white man Oh we're talking about The Zygon Inversion again?
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Aug 15, 2017 09:29
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You know how Chibnall's said he was always keen for Thirteen to be played by a woman? Has he said whether Whittaker was the only choice or whether he asked anybody else? As far as I know, the only times there was only one choice for the new Doctor and nobody else was considered were Colin Baker and (possibly - I'm not sure) David Tennant.
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Aug 15, 2017 11:56
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By all accounts, Peter Capaldi as well
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Aug 15, 2017 12:26
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2house2fly posted:By all accounts, Peter Capaldi as well I thought it was between him and Ben Daniels. Or maybe Daniels was the backup in case Capaldi couldn't do it or wasn't keen. I don't remember.
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Aug 15, 2017 12:53
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Wheat Loaf posted:You know how Chibnall's said he was always keen for Thirteen to be played by a woman? Has he said whether Whittaker was the only choice or whether he asked anybody else? She says she auditioned, although in theory I suppose she might have been the only one who did. We'll probably never know.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:01
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Wheat Loaf posted:I thought it was between him and Ben Daniels. Or maybe Daniels was the backup in case Capaldi couldn't do it or wasn't keen. I don't remember. Capaldi auditioned when Smith got the role and Moffat told him if he was still up for it next time then the role was his. Ben Daniels was the back up in case Capaldi couldn't get out of his Three Musketeers contract.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:12
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As someone who's fallen out of BF listening, what's the explanation for 7 travelling with both Mel and Ace?
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Aug 15, 2017 13:21
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PriorMarcus posted:Capaldi auditioned when Smith got the role and Moffat told him if he was still up for it next time then the role was his. Ben Daniels was the back up in case Capaldi couldn't get out of his Three Musketeers contract. I see. Although Capaldi has been great I think Daniels would have been very good as well.
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Aug 15, 2017 13:43
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2house2fly posted:When Missy stabs him he says "so now I'll regenerate into you?" and she says "welcome to the sisterhood" which isn't directly showing a scene of it happening but it's p close The saddest thing about this is it's definitely the end of the Master's story arc for all time and there is absolutely no way s/he'll be back from the dead because that's never been an established precedence. 
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Aug 15, 2017 14:41
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Honestly, Ben Daniels would be a drat decent Doctor.
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Aug 15, 2017 14:55
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Ha. Recently read that during the mid-80s hiatus, Sydney Newman wrote to Michael Grade asking him to sack JNT and make him (Newman) executive producer, with his plan apparently being to bring back Patrick Troughton (whether as the Seventh Doctor or as the Second Doctor coming back for another go round isn't clear from what I can see) to "steady the ship" and then "metamorphose" into a woman. Precisely what that means wasn't completely clear to me either. I wonder who he'd have picked.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:46
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2house2fly posted:When Missy stabs him he says "so now I'll regenerate into you?" and she says "welcome to the sisterhood" which isn't directly showing a scene of it happening but it's p close If they want to fit another master or two in before Missy then that could have been her just loving with the Master. I mean, I dont think that would be a good idea, but they could do it if they wanted.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:49
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Who's to say Gomez was the first female Master, anyway? She says Simm will regenerate into a woman, but it might not be her.Wheat Loaf posted:You know how Chibnall's said he was always keen for Thirteen to be played by a woman? Has he said whether Whittaker was the only choice or whether he asked anybody else? He's said Whittaker was his "first choice", but who knows whether or not that was the case from the get-go or if other people were also in the running at some point.
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Aug 15, 2017 15:58
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I can't imagine they wouldn't have auditioned at least two people, just in case something happened and Jodie Whittaker got sick enough not to be able to take on the role, or said "gently caress this, use the wax replica of me from Madame Tussaids" or something
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Aug 15, 2017 16:15
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I imagine that if he was set on having a woman as the Doctor, he'd have, at a minimum, at least thought about Colman, seeing as she was also one of the main characters on his old programme.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:17
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SiKboy posted:If they want to fit another master or two in before Missy then that could have been her just loving with the Master. I mean, I dont think that would be a good idea, but they could do it if they wanted. yeah it'd be nice if the writers could hold themselves to higher standard than trash 90s superhero comics
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Aug 15, 2017 16:23
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Unless there's another multi-Master episode, there's no need for the Master to even explain where s/he's from in his/her personal timeline, really.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:29
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Wheat Loaf posted:Ha. Recently read that during the mid-80s hiatus, Sydney Newman wrote to Michael Grade asking him to sack JNT and make him (Newman) executive producer, with his plan apparently being to bring back Patrick Troughton (whether as the Seventh Doctor or as the Second Doctor coming back for another go round isn't clear from what I can see) to "steady the ship" and then "metamorphose" into a woman. Precisely what that means wasn't completely clear to me either. Probably either Joanna Lumley or Frances de la Tour.
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Aug 15, 2017 16:47
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Wheat Loaf posted:I imagine that if he was set on having a woman as the Doctor, he'd have, at a minimum, at least thought about Colman, seeing as she was also one of the main characters on his old programme. Having just watched Broadchurch (soon to be rechristened The Other Three Doctors), I'd be disappointed if he hadn't at least thought seriously about Colman. Speaking of: S1 of Broadchurch is fantastic, but it doesn't exactly reassure me that Chibnall is a good choice for showrunner. He's clearly come a long way since Torchwood, but he still seems captivated by that which is darkly problematic about the human condition. Doctor Who is about the parts of the human spirit that triumph over evil, Broadchurch (along with Torchwood) is about the parts that find it seductive and/or can't overcome it.
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Aug 15, 2017 17:15
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